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This topic has moved here: Subject: An issue that I feel needs to be talked about.
  • Subject: An issue that I feel needs to be talked about.
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Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

For the record, mods cannot easily tell who is a cheater and who is not - Jeremiah can and I can because we have access to that data.

The mods are directed to ban based on what they feel is appropriate. Someone coming onto the forums and asking for why they were banned or for clarification is a huge difference from the jerk who comes on to brag/give death threats (like the one I got today over being dropped from a level 34 to a level 33). Some mods are stricter about this than others - that's fine.

The mods are getting tools to help them work better together, allowing more consistency when they are working at the same time. At the same time, an automatic permaban when you admit to cheating is not always warranted - and is ESPECIALLY stupid when the mods can't even verify such data because they can't access the stat data blobs.

[Edited on 2/19/2007]

  • 02.19.2007 6:49 PM PDT
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So you can figure out what my Gamertag is even though I don't link it?
Posted by: Achronos
For the record, mods cannot easily tell who is a cheater and who is not - Jeremiah can and I can because we have access to that data.

The mods are directed to ban based on what they feel is appropriate. Someone coming onto the forums and asking for why they were banned or for clarification is a huge difference from the jerk who comes on to brag/give death threats (like the one I got today over being dropped from a level 34 to a level 33). Some mods are stricter about this than others - that's fine.

The mods are getting tools to help them work better together, allowing more consistency when they are working at the same time. At the same time, an automatic permaban when you admit to cheating is not always warranted - and is ESPECIALLY stupid when the mods can't even verify such data because they can't access the stat data blobs.

  • 02.19.2007 6:52 PM PDT

I'll be on my own side.

Recon, if someone says they cheated, do you look at their games(assuming they have a linked tag) to make sure of it before banning them?

  • 02.19.2007 7:17 PM PDT

I'll be on my own side.

That's true. Logically, anyone who didn't cheat wouldn't say it.

  • 02.19.2007 7:34 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Mythic Member

Nice read over the whole thing

... the best thing I saw was Achronos double posting

*gasp* O.O

[Edited on 2/19/2007]

  • 02.19.2007 7:42 PM PDT

Posted by: Spage
Nice read over the whole thing

... the best thing I saw was Achronos double posting

*gasp* O.O

Edit it quick!
Before her bans you !!!
=p

  • 02.19.2007 9:00 PM PDT
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I liked this.
Posted by: Achronos
Just because you can't see someone's gamertag(s) doesn't mean we can't.

zOMG Achronos = God of teh Internetz!!!1!

[Edited on 2/20/2007]

  • 02.20.2007 2:53 AM PDT

It was a cold day near the southern base in Blood Gulch. Cortana and I were relaxing over a game of Go Fish, WHEN OUT OF NO WHERE 700 BANSHEES CAME FLYING IN!!! I GRABED MY SPARTAN LASER AND LET HELL REIGN DOWN UPON THEM. I HOPPED IN THE NEAREST WARTHOG AND TOLD CORTANA TO GET IN.

Posted by: Te Cr3amy BonToN
Link to Terms of Use

Under "Use of Communication Services", these two things stood out:

Upload files that contain viruses, corrupted files, or any other similar software or programs that may damage the operation of another's computer.An example of this happening would be an IP Flood, which some cheaters are very capable of doing. IMO, it warrants a blacklist.

Restrict or inhibit any other user from using and enjoying the Communication Services.Also, I believe a form of cheating in MM like standby and circle boosting restricts users from enjoying the services of MM, and therefore, also warrants a blacklist.

Posted by: spartakus14
Bungie makes the ToU, Moderators interpret the ToU and make the rules. if they don't believe someone has broken those rules, then there is no ban.
Interpreting the ToU? It is VERY clear.

Ahh. In your opinion it warrents a blacklist. You believe it warrents a blacklist. You admit there is no set boundry. Thankfully for the rest of us but unfortunately for you, Achronos places his faith in the judgement of others who's opinions and beliefs he trusts. In this situation, Evilcam.

And the ToU is very clear in some situations and it is also very open ended in some situation.

  • 02.20.2007 5:57 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

I think the mods are lucky on this site. As someone mentioned somewhere else, he has to be polite and kind to their members.

Getting rid of the superficial courtesy, the community seems to have fewer problems of member-moderator arguements.

Capital punishment on this site is a must, although can cannot be the only solution.

  • 02.20.2007 6:46 AM PDT

You say tomato; I say potato.

My arguement:
Golden Rule
Bungie controls everything. You have no rights. Play nice.

  • 02.20.2007 7:09 AM PDT
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"Whatever exists, whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent. These anonymous creatures may seem little or nothing in the world. Yet the smallest crumb can devour us. Any smallest thing beneath yon rock out of men's knowing. Only nature can enslave man and only when the existence of each last entity is routed out and made to stand naked before him will he be properly suzerain of the earth."

Posted by: Te Cr3amy BonToN
And, has no one figured out a reason why cheaters should be able to post on this site? Because they shouldn't be able to.


I'm not sure what the argument is that they shouldn't be able to. I noticed that you quoted the Terms of Use, but Matchmaking, from what I saw, was not included in "Communication Services."

Why should people who cause no problem for other users be banned simply because they caused a problem somewhere else? Hell, even if they admitted to cheating I'd rather judge them by their actions on the site.

  • 02.20.2007 12:53 PM PDT
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  • Elder Mythic Member

anyone who's played more than you has no life

anyone who's played less than you is a noob

Posted by: Mabian
Why should people who cause no problem for other users be banned simply because they caused a problem somewhere else? Hell, even if they admitted to cheating I'd rather judge them by their actions on the site.


where do you draw the line? Would you care if -blam!- posted on this site? Or is it only cheaters you don't mind?

edit: looks like p****phile is filtered.

[Edited on 2/20/2007]

  • 02.20.2007 1:38 PM PDT
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"Whatever exists, whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent. These anonymous creatures may seem little or nothing in the world. Yet the smallest crumb can devour us. Any smallest thing beneath yon rock out of men's knowing. Only nature can enslave man and only when the existence of each last entity is routed out and made to stand naked before him will he be properly suzerain of the earth."

Posted by: necare
where do you draw the line? Would you care if -blam!- posted on this site? Or is it only cheaters you don't mind?

edit: looks like p****phile is filtered.


Well, speaking from a completely theoretical point of view, if I were a moderator, I would simply try to enforce the rules. It is not my duty to pass judgement on people. Though I would keep my eyes on certain people, I don't follow the view Recon has that if the person says it the person is causing some sort of trouble and must be removed.

But I would delete such responses, and probably send a warning to the members about speaking about such things. I do agree that posting about cheating, or any other bad acts, is flamebait.

But I'll to take another look at the ToU and CoC to see if the discussion of "-blam!-" is expressedly prohibitted from the forums to the point that any member who talks about it should be banned on sight. I don't think it is, but I haven't exactly memorized the documents by heart.

  • 02.20.2007 1:49 PM PDT
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  • Elder Mythic Member

anyone who's played more than you has no life

anyone who's played less than you is a noob

I think you misunderstood my point maybe, Mabian.

You said why should people that don't cause trouble here be banned if they cause trouble elsewhere.

I said would you mind if child molesters posted on this forum, despite them causing no harm here.

I guess it's a little bit of an extreme case, but you get the idea.

  • 02.20.2007 2:08 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Mythic Member
  • gamertag: Mabian
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"Whatever exists, whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent. These anonymous creatures may seem little or nothing in the world. Yet the smallest crumb can devour us. Any smallest thing beneath yon rock out of men's knowing. Only nature can enslave man and only when the existence of each last entity is routed out and made to stand naked before him will he be properly suzerain of the earth."

Posted by: necare
I think you misunderstood my point maybe, Mabian.

You said why should people that don't cause trouble here be banned if they cause trouble elsewhere.

I said would you mind if child molesters posted on this forum, despite them causing no harm here.

I guess it's a little bit of an extreme case, but you get the idea.


No, I'm pretty sure I understood it and addressed it. It's just implicit within the post.

  • 02.20.2007 2:10 PM PDT

Posted by: necare
I said would you mind if child molesters posted on this forum, despite them causing no harm here.
.


I don't think I can make that jump across your comparison canyon necare.

Besides, the terms of agreement for B.net is not the same as Xbox live, therefore cannot be enforced across the board like you guys are talking about. Sure Xbox live cheaters suck, but if they don't break the rules here on B.net, then how can you justify they're suspension?

  • 02.20.2007 2:11 PM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

Visit us and check out our games at Sandswept.net!

~~Pardon Our Dust.~~

Weggie, how about you just stop cheating so much and then you wouldn't have to worry? Sheesh.

;)

Actually, if someone is cheating, it shows how dishonest (and what a jerk) they are to the Halo community. I don't really want those people around, even if they behave on the forums..

Which usually they don't. They could be a really nice poster in the open, but at other times they can be completely out of line, throwing dishes and small animals.. :(

  • 02.20.2007 2:40 PM PDT
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This is not really an issue in my opinion. The moderators interpret the rules as they see fit. For example, two people post a political thread. Recon gets one and Jim gets another. Say Recon bans one, and Jim does not ban the other, but gives him a warning. This is a perfect example, mods do not think alike in many cases, interpreting the rules is one of them. Some people make it sound like the mods are robots; click, ban, click, lock, click, delete, click, witty comment that is in the data base is posted, click, bad, click; and so on and so forth. But that is not the case, they are normal people, they have judgments; they do what they believe is right, as everyone else does.

Yes, I know, my post is indeed a waste due to the fact that I summed up just about everything in this thread. But I felt left out : )

[Edited on 2/20/2007]

  • 02.20.2007 3:28 PM PDT
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Destinypedia - The Wiki for Bungie's Destiny
Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Some part of this discussion reminds me of a situation that many of us may have encountered.

While driving on a busy highway, we get pulled over by an officer. They stop and explain to us that they are ticketing us for exceeding the speed limit. While it may be true that we were above the posted limit, we were simply moving with the flow of traffic and nearly every car on the road is therefor speeding.

If you have ever said to the cop (in that situation), "What about all of these other people going past us right now who are speeding? How come they all get away with it?"

I can't help but think of the standard reply. The officer looks up from his ticket writing, and over the top of his sunglasses and calmly replies (with a little smirk), "Yes sir, but it was YOU that I stopped this time."


Exactly.

And to make this situation completely analogous to the OP's topic, that same officer is perfectly allowed to detain you if you walk up to him and say, "Guess what, I just robbed a bank."

Your admission is all that's necessary for action to be taken - proof is not required in that situation OR in this one.

  • 02.20.2007 3:48 PM PDT

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