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Subject: Halo 2 > Halo CE? Harder?
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I thought that would get your attention.This is my first actual post, but I've been reading the forums for over a year. I was one of the guys who didn't get into Halo until H2. I could explain, but that would suck. I played Halo 2, got really good at it, and then one day after a LAN asked the friend who had introduced me to it, "What was Halo 1 like?". His reply was simply, "There's no going back." Well, I don't have XBL, so I thought I'd give it a go. My first time through, I thought I'd familiarize myself with it first, so I set it to normal and went for it. I really prefer the graphical look and feel of the game. Much more sci-fi-ish, and it helped add to the feeling of being lost and alone, a rebel refusing to die. I won't narrate that experience, but I really liked it so I decided to try it on a harder difficulty. I got good at heroic, and gave legendary a whirl. OH. MY. GOSH. That was the most painfully difficult experience I have ever, uh, experienced. This is something that bothers me deeply, because all too often in this very forum I see people saying, "H1 was better because it required more skill" and then someone else agrees with them, saying, "Yeah and because H2's campaign was way too hard on legendary". Now I am NOT saying that all of the hardcore H1 fans think that way, so don't flame me for this, reply like an intelligent human being. So yeah, read this.

Harder? No, because....
1.Statistically, H1 is harder. For instance, the pistol--3 headshots to kill. BR--4 headshots to kill (in multiplayer). Now, that makes the pistol slightly more powerful than the BR. In Halo 2, on legendary, you can kill a Minor elite (the blue ones) with 7 headshots. In Halo 1, the same Minor elites take somewhere in the neighborhood of a clip and a half to kill. I haven't counted exactly how many it takes, but it's about 18 headshots. That's the equivalent of killing an Ultra in Halo 2.

2. Various factors that were present in H1 and were absent in H2 add to the "cakewalkish" nature of H2's campaign. Plasma freeze made it more difficult to flee from pursuing enemies.
I don't know about you guys, but jumping is an important part of the way I play halo. In H1, You couldn't jump nearly as high, and if you fell from any kind of considerable height you would suffer from the fall penalty, which, although I agree added the need for skill in multiplayer, was not something I would call a good thing. It was an annoyance. I have enough to think about during a slayer match without worrying about "hurting my feet". Also, the fact that I could get hit and severly injured by a melee attack that I SAW GO PAST MY FACE was straight out bullcrap. There are a few other minor problems but nothing wortth mentioning.

3. The assault rifle(which was intended to be the main weapon), as cool as it looked, sucked. An entire clip couldn't kill a minor on legendary. In Halo 2, you always had access to a weapon that would easily get you past a situation...usually the battle rifle would do the trick. The fact that the BR's projectiles were faster leveled it with the pistol(in campaign).

Better? Technically, because....
Halo CE had a small number of things called "gaming flaws", some of which are listed above as contributors to the hardness of the game. So whether your biased opinion of the game says "it was better than H2" or not, Halo 2 did not have any problems with vehicle control, repeating levels (that didn't bother me personally, but it's a boo-boo) or the melee attack hitting you unreasonably. How "balanced" it was is purely opinion. I could say that Halo 2 was more balanced, but that would just be my opinion. The fact is that Halo 2 got more perfect scores from more people.

I think that it all boils down to this: you can never play Halo for the first time twice. I remember playing it (H2 in my case), hearing the theme music, and realizing that it was no ordinary game. But I think of it like this: if an ordinary American were to go his entire life without pizza, and then one day be given a fresh slice of Digornio(sp?), he would love it to death. Three years later, if you gave him a slice of fresh Pizza hut, Domino's, whichever, he would love it, it would be nostalgic, and it would probably be better, but it would not be able to compare to the first time he drooled over the glorious triangle of Pizza.

So there. I don't even know if it matters, because I'm confident H3 wil take the cake.

  • 02.25.2007 6:29 PM PDT
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Well written. Not many people here can express themselves quite as civilized as you. l agree mostly with what you say, and that pizza analogy made me hungry.

  • 02.25.2007 7:23 PM PDT
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Posted by: Ovechkin 8
Well written. Not many people here can express themselves quite as civilized as you. l agree mostly with what you say, and that pizza analogy made me hungry.


I'm in English 2 right now at the local community college. I feel like my teacher is watching while I type, so I practically have no choice. I was eating pizza while I typed that, haha.

  • 02.25.2007 7:36 PM PDT
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Lol. Now l'm REALLY hungry. l gotta order some pizza lol.

  • 02.25.2007 8:00 PM PDT
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Posted by: TUI_Obi_Wan
And it's your connection that's slower than turtle sex.

In........................................................Out .

*cough*enormous hitboxes, a massive amount of autoaim, and quite frankly, a crappy storyline*cough*

Whichever game in the Halo series you play first, is always your favourite, trust me, I know.

  • 02.25.2007 10:21 PM PDT

Posted by: COS Maverick
The fact is that Halo 2 got more perfect scores from more people.


Not sure I agree with that bit, I can think of a couple of places off the top of my head easily which gave Halo a higher review score than Halo 2.

But you make some good points. Like you say, Halo 2 did not have some of the flaws Halo 1 had. Unfortunately it didn't have some of the brilliant stuff either.

I'm very much of the opinion that Halo 2 fixed the bad from halo 1 but threw away the good.

  • 02.26.2007 3:30 AM PDT
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Posted by: RhythmKiller
Posted by: COS Maverick
The fact is that Halo 2 got more perfect scores from more people.


Not sure I agree with that bit, I can think of a couple of places off the top of my head easily which gave Halo a higher review score than Halo 2.

But you make some good points. Like you say, Halo 2 did not have some of the flaws Halo 1 had. Unfortunately it didn't have some of the brilliant stuff either.

I'm very much of the opinion that Halo 2 fixed the bad from halo 1 but threw away the good.

  • 02.26.2007 4:49 AM PDT
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Posted by: stare3
*cough*enormous hitboxes, a massive amount of autoaim, and quite frankly, a crappy storyline*cough*

Whichever game in the Halo series you play first, is always your favourite, trust me, I know.


Not true. I played Halo 2 first and I like Halo better. FAIL! AHAHAHAHA!

  • 02.26.2007 5:00 AM PDT
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Posted by: stare3
*cough*enormous hitboxes, a massive amount of autoaim, and quite frankly, a crappy storyline*cough*

Whichever game in the Halo series you play first, is always your favourite, trust me, I know.


That's the idea. And I do agree that Halo 2 now feels like a nine hour cutscene connecting Halo 1 and Halo 3. The story was interesting, but too all over the place. It also really could have progressed the human side of the story much, much further than it did. And another thing, "cough*enormous hitboxes, a massive amount of autoaim," these things do not take away from the experience in the same manner that the ghost being a real pain in the butt to drive, or melee attacks being unreasonably hard to dodge do.

[Edited on 2/26/2007]

  • 02.26.2007 11:14 AM PDT
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i started playing haloCE way before halo2 came out, use to play it everyday, but i still like halo2 better. anyways good post COS Maverick.

  • 02.26.2007 11:50 AM PDT
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I played Halo:CE too, I like Halo2 better.

You can't hate a game for having bigger hitboxes, Or more autoaim, Or you can just piss on Halo compared to Counter Strike, or Red Faction both with no autoaim or very little to no hitboxes.

__
Story wins, It's diffrent from the cliche sci-fi "Big man kills enemies bang bang noscope nubs", Bungie really made the story of Halo flip over, and balanced out a lot more then just having it being, "humans kill aliens, End of story", It's more then that, Halo:CE was good for it's time, But was cliche, and done too many times before. Halo2 had a whole new approach, not completly original, but more then "Big man killing aliens"

  • 02.26.2007 4:28 PM PDT

A lot of this stuff is true. Many aspects of both games make sense on some level. Good write-up, and remember-
Opinion>Fact (but only in the reality of idiots and video games)

  • 02.26.2007 4:35 PM PDT
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Posted by: chickenlittle
A lot of this stuff is true. Many aspects of both games make sense on some level. Good write-up, and remember-
Opinion>Fact (but only in the reality of idiots and video games)


Opinion > Fact? Huh?

  • 02.26.2007 4:39 PM PDT

halo CE is much harder than halo 2 in my opinion.

  • 02.26.2007 4:52 PM PDT
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Posted by: HaloPlaya4Eva
Not true. I played Halo 2 first and I like Halo better. FAIL! AHAHAHAHA!

  • 02.26.2007 5:17 PM PDT
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Posted by: Rhythymkiller
Posted by: COS Maverick
The fact is that Halo 2 got more perfect scores from more people.


Not sure I agree with that bit, I can think of a couple of places off the top of my head easily which gave Halo a higher review score than Halo 2.

But you make some good points. Like you say, Halo 2 did not have some of the flaws Halo 1 had. Unfortunately it didn't have some of the brilliant stuff either.

I'm very much of the opinion that Halo 2 fixed the bad from halo 1 but threw away the good.



I totally agree with the latter two parts of what you said, Rhythymkiller. As for the reviews statement, well, see for yourself. Sorry for being a nerd about this, but...

Halo 2:
Game informer - 10/10
1up - 10/10
Gamepro - 5/5
Gamespy - 5/5
EGM - 10/10
Yahoo! Video games - 5/5

Halo: CE -
Game informer - 9.5/10
1up - 9.5/10
Gamepro - 5/5
Gamespy - 4/5
EGM - (No review)
Yahoo! Video Games - (No review)

I will acknowledge that user reviews were generally higher for Halo 1 than those of Halo 2. But then, they (the consumers) aren't paid to give games fair and balanced reviews, are they?

[Edited on 2/27/2007]

  • 02.27.2007 1:26 PM PDT

Posted by: COS Maverick
I will acknowledge that user reviews were generally higher for Halo 1 than those of Halo 2. But then, they (the consumers) aren't paid to give games fair and balanced reviews, are they?


User reviews should be more highly regarded than the actual reviews themselves, considering the users are the target audience of the game.

  • 02.27.2007 3:39 PM PDT
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Posted by: Sporefrizzle
Posted by: COS Maverick
I will acknowledge that user reviews were generally higher for Halo 1 than those of Halo 2. But then, they (the consumers) aren't paid to give games fair and balanced reviews, are they?


User reviews should be more highly regarded than the actual reviews themselves, considering the users are the target audience of the game.


On any other occasion, I would agree with you. But you missed the point. Most of the user reviews for Halo 2 are made by Halo 1 veterans, and they were all angry about the absence of their beloved pistol and AR. And Halo 2 was over-hyped. I didn't see all of the hype, so I just got Halo 2 for what it was. Which was glorious, but I never did see a phantom flip over and explode, and everyone wanted that. But I guess I really do agree with your statement, I just think that this is somewhat of an exception.

  • 02.27.2007 4:23 PM PDT

Posted by: halo and pok3mon
I've lost all steam for halo itself, I think I might just rent H3...


Posted by: POCALLIK
That's like saying sex has lost it's steam.

Halo 1 is an awesome game but Halo 2, if possible, is a better game in my opinion. Don't flame me, but the Halo 2 storyline is much more complex than Halo 1. Halo 2 multiplayer is better too but I do miss a few things from Halo 1: AR, better scifi feel, night-vision scope, and infinite grenades.

On what game takes more skill . . . to me they seem to be different games. Halo 1 is more about individual skill while Halo 2 takes more communication/teamwork over individual skill. That's my take.

  • 02.27.2007 5:58 PM PDT
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Posted by: Fanatic66
Halo 1 is an awesome game but Halo 2, if possible, is a better game in my opinion. Don't flame me, but the Halo 2 storyline is much more complex than Halo 1.
Yes, I just loved Halo 2's extremely linear missions...

  • 02.27.2007 6:13 PM PDT
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Posted by: Master Kim
Posted by: Fanatic66
Halo 1 is an awesome game but Halo 2, if possible, is a better game in my opinion. Don't flame me, but the Halo 2 storyline is much more complex than Halo 1.
Yes, I just loved Halo 2's extremely linear missions...


Better than getting lost for 30 minutes. Halo 1 wasn't that "non-linear". You felt like you were choosing your path, but you weren't. Halo 2 was more linear, but spare me that crap. You're gonna piss me off trying to think of a really good reason to criticize Halo 2.

  • 02.27.2007 6:27 PM PDT
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I liked both Halo editions, but call it the nostalgia in me, I have to say that I really liked the feel of Halo CE more. both were fun to me, I mean I would give both two thumbs way up, but I liked the faster running in Halo CE (check it out, he runs slower in Halo 2 and jumps higher) and Halo CE seemed a lot less complicated, especially in the way things looked. In Halo 2, picking out jackal snipers was hell sometimes. Especially when they seemed to see you much further out than you could see them. I think a better system of how AIs become aware of the player needs tobe worked out for games in general. I do think a lot of what drew me more towards Hale CE was the assault rifle. I just CAN"T STAND BURST FIRE. Full auto or semi- pick one, don't screw with me on this. Maybe a selector switch button would be nice for Halo 3; on the assault rifle, or the battle rifle, or anything that needs it. Sorry; off topic. I guess it's a tossup. Halo 2 was fun, but was missing something or several somethings that made Halo CE great . . . Maybe it'll make more semse in the morning . . .

  • 02.28.2007 2:48 AM PDT

The Halo 2 campaign wasn't anything like how they would have done it if they had the time.

  • 02.28.2007 5:24 AM PDT
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If you invite me to your group you will be blocked.

I think Halo 2's Legendary mode was way to hard, I didn't like the fact that if it was me standing across from a blue elite and I fired first he could still whoop my ass with his crappy plasma rifle, but when I used the plasma rifle it was like shooting spit-balls.

Halo 1's Legendary was better, because every elite proved challenging, but not over-powered. I could take on one elite easily, but add in a second one and the party just got a little more spicy.

I also think the weapon set in Halo 1 was better. I love my battle rifle, but that's the only human weapon besides the sniper that doesn't suck in Halo 2.

[Edited on 2/28/2007]

  • 02.28.2007 6:09 AM PDT
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Posted by: X 10000 Fists X
I think Halo 2's Legendary mode was way to hard, I didn't like the fact that if it was me standing across from a blue elite and I fired first he could still whoop my ass with his crappy plasma rifle, but when I used the plasma rifle it was like shooting spit-balls.


Elites could do that in Halo 1 too. And because of the implementation of duel wielding, you can't use a PR by itself. You have to use it with an SMG. If those two guns can't do the job for you, you suck, I'm sorry.

Posted by: X 10000 Fists X
Halo 1's Legendary was better, because every elite proved challenging, but not over-powered. I could take on one elite easily, but add in a second one and the party just got a little more spicy.


Did you read what I posted, beavis? Halo 1's Elites are, without question, much more powerful than Halo 2's. E-mail Bungie if you don't believe me. I will agree that taking on 2 elites in Halo 2 is very difficult if you have an SMG. So you manipulate your environment, you bait the elites, and create the battlefield on your own terms. You can't outgun them, and you can't fight their fight...you'll always lose.

Posted by: X 10000 Fists X
I also think the weapon set in Halo 1 was better. I love my battle rifle, but that's the only human weapon besides the sniper that doesn't suck in Halo 2.


The rocket launcher is better than it was in Halo 1. Yes, there is less splash damage, but the rate of fire more than makes up the difference. Come on, it's a rocket launcher for goodness sake! So easy a caveman could do it!

  • 02.28.2007 1:45 PM PDT

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