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Subject: Updated: FLAGGING feature for easier moderating and encouraging goo...
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Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

I am curious to get the Septagon's members' eminently wise views on this idea for a moderating tool.

UPDATED 3/7/07 (updates are noted below by the phrase "(NEW)" and also further stated in my post near the top of page 2 of this thread).

My idea is for a thread "flagging" system, whereby instead of forum users always having to PM a moderator about bad posts, every thread would have an option at the top to flag the post for being spam, illegal, or whatever. Here's how the system would work:* (NEW) Bungie.net would add another tier of membership level in between Forum Ninja and Regular Member. These people would maybe be called "Senior Members." For more and better-articulated ideas on different levels or stratifications of membership, see Recon Number 54's post by clicking on this link.

* (NEW) There would be no limits on the number of Senior Members, but they would not be able to join HFCS or do any other type of moderating except flagging. In order to become a Senior Member, you'd have to be "promoted" by the higher-ups and demonstrate maturity and familiarity with the rules.

* Every thread created by someone who is not a moderator or staff would have a button giving Senior Members the option to "FLAG AS BAD POST."
(NEW: original idea of "all community members" removed)

* Every flag would count as one "vote." Each Senior Member could only vote once, but could also "unflag" the post (to correct accidentally hitting the button or realizing later that the post is actually not a bad post).

* Flagging "votes" would not be anonymous and voters would be visible to the higher-ups. If a "Senior Member" abuses the flagging privilege too much, he or she is bumped back down to regular "Member" status and the ability to flag posts is removed.

* On the main forum page, next to the title of the thread and the date and such, every post would also display a tiny flag icon along with the number of flagging "votes" that the thread has received. This display would be visible ONLY TO MODERATORS and BUNGIE STAFF.

(This would prevent "bandwagon" flagging, where if flags were visible to the general public, people would be more or less likely to flag certain threads.)

* Moderators browsing the forums could see at a glance all of the posts that have been flagged (and how many times each has been flagged) and, from experience, would be able to instantly tell which posts they need to take a closer look at.

* The final decision to lock the thread would belong to FORUM NINJAS and higher only.

(This allows for the problem that many controversial or long-lasting posts might receive flags - even if they are not against the rules.)

* Once a moderator takes a look at a thread and deems it to be "within the rules," the moderator can then remove the option to flag that thread any further.

(This would both help Senior Members to know when a thread has been found to be within the rules and would also save the duplication of effort (so that different moderators would not have to look at the same threads)

NOTE:The new Senior Member idea removes the problem that, with anonymous flagging, some immature people would automatically flag every post just to be funny. Ninjas would be able to learn from experience how many "flags" are required before a post requires urgent attention. At any rate, ninjas would still be inclined to read all posts and make their own decisions - no change from the status quo.

Here are the advantages to this system:
* The really bad posts would get attention more quickly.

* This would reduce the amount of spam in bad threads stating "This doesn't belong in this forum" or "You're about to get locked," etc. B.net users would simply flag the post rather than continue bumping spam by posting.

* As a result of the preceding advantage, bad posts would fall off the first page faster even if they have not been locked, due to less bumping just to say "This post is spam."

* This system might also potentially reduce the number of PMs that moderators receive about bad posts, thereby helping to clean up their inboxes a little bit.

* (NEW) This system might help to reduce bad posts in the first place by encouraging regular members who might otherwise be inclined to flame or spam to clean up their posts in the hopes of being "promoted."

* This system might (or might not) also have the extra added benefit of discouraging bad posts in the first place. Spammers/Bad Posters would be more aware of the fact that the rest of the community might disapprove or not appreciate their bad post, and in some cases might potentially be less likely to post in the first place.

I'm interested to hear what everyone thinks about this idea.... Good? Bad? Does it need improvement or modification? Let me know your opinion!



[Edited on 03.22.2007 12:59 PM PDT]

  • 03.06.2007 9:14 AM PDT
Subject: New FLAGGING feature for easier moderating

­"You have to aim above the head, but then a little lower so you actually get it."

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Great idea!

One of the best ideas I've seen so far. In my life.

Ever.

I would usually post a longer opinion, but you pretty much summed it all up.

The only negative would be creating it, chances are good they already know what they're doing for the new hawtness, so your example may or may not see the light of day. Depending on how close it is to what Achronos already has in mind, as I doubt he'll be willing to change from his plans, as he makes them out to be a huge improvement.

[Edited on 3/6/2007]

  • 03.06.2007 9:47 AM PDT
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Posted by: Kamatzu
Great idea!

One of the best ideas I've seen so far. In my life.

Ever.

I would usually post a longer opinion, but you pretty much summed it all up.

The only negative would be creating it, chances are good they already know what they're doing for the new hawtness, so your example may or may not see the light of day. Depending on how close it is to what Achronos already has in mind, as I doubt he'll be willing to change from his plans, as he makes them out to be a huge improvement.

  • 03.06.2007 10:01 AM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Hmmm...for us veteran normies, we have MSN with all the mods. If that doesn't work there is always Kd's program to find who interacted with the site last.

I'm just afraid (and you somewhat addressed it) that people would just randomly hit the "flag" button on every thread. If you have no accountability, there will always be abuses.

~B.B.

  • 03.06.2007 10:25 AM PDT
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Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Hmmm...for us veteran normies, we have MSN with all the mods. If that doesn't work there is always Kd's program to find who interacted with the site last.


Good points, but I think that this system would be more of a supplement to the existing system than a replacement.

I also have MSN with most of the mods, but many people do not. And for the same reason that the flagging system would reduce PMs, it would also reduce instant messages regarding bad posts. It would help to alleviate the ninjas' spam intake - a feature which I'm sure they'd appreciate.

Additionally, it would allow for bad posts to be pre-flagged at times when no mods are online.

And furthermore beyond that, the system would be good for all of the other reasons I mentioned, including reducing spam and allowing bad threads to fall off the first page faster.

I'm just afraid (and you somewhat addressed it) that people would just randomly hit the "flag" button on every thread. If you have no accountability, there will always be abuses.
Agreed. But I think that in this scenario, the mods will look at the forum's main page and see lots of posts with "5" flags, and one or two with "25" flags. Those are the posts that they will check first, and then they can move on to the posts with fewer flags after that.

  • 03.06.2007 10:38 AM PDT
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sounds good to me. i bet you-know-who will post in here..........

  • 03.06.2007 10:44 AM PDT
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Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: WIZ16
sounds good to me. i bet you-know-who will post in here..........


Voldemort?

  • 03.06.2007 10:49 AM PDT

What about people who may create alt accounts and continually hit the "flag button?”

  • 03.06.2007 11:44 AM PDT
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Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: Death8823
What about people who may create alt accounts and continually hit the "flag button?”

That would be cumbersome and take a long time to do. I doubt many people would care enough about any particular thread or flagging in general to actually go to all of that trouble.

But even assuming that they DID do it, the only effect would be to cause a moderator to look at the thread, decide that it does not violate any rules, and remove the ability to flag that thread any further. This would remove the incentive for any abuse of the system.

  • 03.06.2007 11:49 AM PDT

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Great Idea.

but it won't work.

It requires member interaction. Anything that requires member interaction like this is bound to fail. It's the same as a karma system based on what members think.

It just won't work.

  • 03.06.2007 12:39 PM PDT

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I can imagine that this feature wouldn't be used properly by most of the current members who can't seam to identify the difference between a different opinion and the quality/suitability of a post.

  • 03.06.2007 12:55 PM PDT

I think it's a bad idea. PM'ing or IM'ing a moderator is still pretty efficient.

  • 03.06.2007 1:20 PM PDT

I think that is a pretty cool/good idea, but there doesn't seem to be a desperate need for it right now.

  • 03.06.2007 1:33 PM PDT
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Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: spartakus14
Great Idea.
but it won't work.
It requires member interaction. Anything that requires member interaction like this is bound to fail. It's the same as a karma system based on what members think.


Posted by: littlerat
I can imagine that this feature wouldn't be used properly by most of the current members who can't seam to identify the difference between a different opinion and the quality/suitability of a post.

I understand how some of you may have lost faith in the Community's ability to self-police, considering some of the spam that occurs on the b.net forums. But I have to disagree with you both.

I think that the vast majority of Community members DO know the rules and know when a post should not be there. You should not let the spam that occurs in these forums fool you into the elitist type of thinking that only a select few active members know the rules. In my opinion, most people who come to the forums do not want to see spam, leetspeak, or bad posts any more than the most active members do.

And remember that those of us who use MSN or PMs to contact moderators are much more involved in the b.net Community than most people. The casual Community member is not going to feel involved enough in b.net to actually add the mods to their MSN or take the time to look up which moderator is online (if they even know about Kd's website) and them PM that moderator. But that doesn't mean that they want to see bad posts, and I believe that they would really appreciate a flagging system that allowed them to indicate that a post is a bad post without having to go through a lot of hassle.

There are enough checks in this system that it would be resistant to abuse.

Posted by: thebrutenextdoor
I think it's a bad idea. PM'ing or IM'ing a moderator is still pretty efficient.


Why do you think it's bad? You didn't really give any reasons.

This system would clearly be more efficient. No need to fire up your MSN messenger and wait for a moderator to come online. No need to look up which moderator is online and PM them and hope that they haven't logged off. All you have to do is click one simple button and soon enough, the bad post goes away. This would be extremely efficient - especially for the casual Community member (as outlined above).

I am interested to see what the ninjas think about this idea, since it would affect them the most... any of you want to weigh in?

  • 03.06.2007 1:41 PM PDT

*Sgt

When I first ran this idea through my head after reading your thread title, I didn't think it would be a good idea. But you disproved any doubts that I had... good idea.

  • 03.06.2007 2:08 PM PDT
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This is actually a really good idea, but it could become a hassle for moderators. People would just spam flags and then mods would look into the topic and see it's not inappropriate. Things like that would continually hassle the mods. They could probably fix that though.

All in all it's a pretty good idea. Thumbs up.

  • 03.06.2007 2:16 PM PDT
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Gamespot has a similar system. I like it.

  • 03.06.2007 2:25 PM PDT

It was a cold day near the southern base in Blood Gulch. Cortana and I were relaxing over a game of Go Fish, WHEN OUT OF NO WHERE 700 BANSHEES CAME FLYING IN!!! I GRABED MY SPARTAN LASER AND LET HELL REIGN DOWN UPON THEM. I HOPPED IN THE NEAREST WARTHOG AND TOLD CORTANA TO GET IN.

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Hmmm...for us veteran normies, we have MSN with all the mods. If that doesn't work there is always Kd's program to find who interacted with the site last.

I'm just afraid (and you somewhat addressed it) that people would just randomly hit the "flag" button on every thread. If you have no accountability, there will always be abuses.

~B.B.

Not to mention that the mods are always on IRC, so getting them to see bad threads is hardly an issue. Still, this was a well thought out idea. Good job :)

  • 03.06.2007 3:00 PM PDT

I do it for Ada

I have returned

This is a great Idea. There should also be a flag users options for getting people banned although that one might not work to well because of grudges or something like that.

  • 03.06.2007 3:20 PM PDT

2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Great idea.

  • 03.06.2007 3:44 PM PDT

Fight hard, break bones >{o

the only problem i see is creating it.

other then that its perfect. maybe not worth it, but definitely could help. the mods currently have no indication of a bad thread besides one titled in all caps or one that says some lewd remark.

the only other complaint would be that it would have to register you hit it by the member, not the ip address (like polls). becuase if its set up the same as polls, the same user could hit the button 30 times, where as by member, it would only be available once to most and no more then 10 for some really big loser.

i give it 2 thumbs up!

  • 03.06.2007 4:02 PM PDT
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Yes, this idea is very effective in forums all across the internet. Nexon.net has an option like that and I see unneccessary or innappropriate posts flagged because of honest members. But beware, if this function is actually put into the forums, members may abuse it and flag almost every single post that they see.

  • 03.06.2007 4:52 PM PDT

Posted by: x Foman123 x
Posted by: Death8823
What about people who may create alt accounts and continually hit the "flag button?”

That would be cumbersome and take a long time to do. I doubt many people would care enough about any particular thread or flagging in general to actually go to all of that trouble.

But even assuming that they DID do it, the only effect would be to cause a moderator to look at the thread, decide that it does not violate any rules, and remove the ability to flag that thread any further. This would remove the incentive for any abuse of the system.


True, but there are certain members throughout in the Bungie community that have more than one (1) account. The member would not necessarily have to make a new account, as long as there alt accounts aren’t banned, then they can sign onto them as well and click the "flagged" button again. This would take a matter of seconds to due, and I am certain that there are some members in the Bungie community that have grudges with one another and have nothing better to do than do something like this.

I do like the idea don’t get me wrong, I am just trying to point out the follies in the idea. Plus it depends on peoples judgments, in which case no offense to some of the members in the community, but I would rather not leave it up to other members in the community to pass judgment over my thread, because it may be offensive to them. I say leave it up to the moderators and let them do what they do. I know that you are just creating this idea so the moderator will recognize bad threads easier if there is something wrong in the thread. I believe that process is even slower than just notifying one that is on.

What I feel would be a good idea, would to have a bar with the names of the moderators currently in that forum, therefore you know who to contact quicker, rather than trying to find one that is already currently on. Although this may lead to people spamming them, but that is what our “block user” button is for correct?

  • 03.06.2007 4:59 PM PDT
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No.

  • 03.07.2007 12:19 AM PDT
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I have read this entire thread, do I get a cookie? All joking aside, I see both pros and cons to this idea. I can see both sides of the story. In my opinion, this system is a bit too community based. The forums are a rat race. The only true logical places that this idea would work in my opinion would be the Underground, the Septagon, and the Library. These three forums, from what I have witnessed, are the most mature members and have a good reputation. However, this would not work either, why give less than half the forums and ability that the rest does not have? Now, I am going to go ahead and list what I believe are the pros and cons in this situation.

Pros:
* The really bad posts would get attention more quickly.
* This system might also potentially reduce the number of PMs that moderators receive about bad posts, thereby helping to clean up their inboxes a little bit.
* May discourage bad posts

Pros/Cons(Undecided):
* It is yet to be known if this method would indeed be quicker for the mods.
* Spam in spam threads cannot be decided if it would stop completely or not.
* It is yet to be known if there are enough helpful members to do so within this community.

Cons:
* Too community reliant.
* The community is too immature to handle such a thing. Remember, the bungie community ranges from ages ten to eighteen. The most common anyway.
* May not be determined if it will indeed be an easier way to do things compared to doing things now.

Those are my views. And as I stated, I see both the pros and the cons in this particular case. I have yet to decide whether the pros will or will not out waver the cons. So, till I decide, I am undecided on this option. My big problem, is that it is far too community based.

  • 03.07.2007 7:56 AM PDT

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