Halo 1 & 2 for PC
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Subject: Horrible, horrible thought
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Posted by: Reaver225
Hired Gun: The new Gearbox?
Then we'd have to blame Bungie and Microsoft again...

  • 03.11.2007 1:17 PM PDT
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Heyyo,

There's a chance that history will repeat itself.. right now we're kinda getting the same message from the media.. stuff like some high rez textures but not all are redone, no coop... but they mentioned no new weapons or vehicles for pc, and a better editor.. so I guess in the end, only time will tell...

  • 03.11.2007 5:37 PM PDT
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Posted by: ThE_MarD
Heyyo,

There's a chance that history will repeat itself.. right now we're kinda getting the same message from the media.. stuff like some high rez textures but not all are redone, no coop... but they mentioned no new weapons or vehicles for pc, and a better editor.. so I guess in the end, only time will tell...

History repeat itself? You mean for Bungie/Microsoft to not allow Hired Gun to allow specific things, right? Or are you one of the ones who also blames Gearbox for everything?

No co op and no new weapons or vehicles have already been confirmed and have been for months.

  • 03.11.2007 5:46 PM PDT
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Bear in mind that I didn't state my opinion on Gearbox in the beginning post... I personally love gearbox for their work on Brothers in Arms and HL Opposing Force. And whoever was 'at fault' for HPC, it's still a wounded game, meaning H2V could turn out similar.

  • 03.12.2007 1:56 AM PDT

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Yea well remember way back when when Bill Gates said the famous "Nobody will ever need more than 640K of RAM!"? I think that's what happened with HaloPC and their mandate for 56k support, they feared high speed wouldn't catch on with the majority of PC gamers for a while.

Obviously they are wrong, but I don't see how that mistake can be made again as anyone in a major population center has broadband...assuming their inteligent of course.

So no, I don't think Hired Gun will "be another Gearbox".

And GearBox messed up more than in the realm of netcode, so their not off the hook, and if Hired Gun has a bunch of graphics and trigger issues in Halo 2 Vista, then there will be hell to pay.

And will people stop complaining about lack of co-op, the way co-op works on a console is so beyond different from how it would work on a PC it's stupid to think it would be easy, unless, possibly, you dual screen, but even then I doubt that would work as split screen is specifically coded to make use of one output.

But I think if their smart they will be keeping the PC in mind while making Halo 3, because I think by the time we get Halo 3 PC, co-op will be the next great feature for PC games, especially with the whole Live Anywhere service.

  • 03.12.2007 5:40 AM PDT
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Hey, without gearbox there would be no Halo pcs because noone else would've done it so quit your -blam!-ing. I hope this topic gets locked now.

  • 03.12.2007 12:27 PM PDT
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I think Hired Gun knows what Gearbox messed up on and I think they'll make sure they don't suffer the same fate. However if they do I'll...um...do something not nice...

  • 03.12.2007 12:39 PM PDT
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Posted by: brianv
Hey, without gearbox there would be no Halo pcs because noone else would've done it so quit your -blam!-ing. I hope this topic gets locked now.
Without Gearbox we wouldn't have missing shaders!

  • 03.12.2007 1:00 PM PDT

"Looks like I picked the wrong day to stop smokin'!"

Its not up to HG from saving themselves from becoming gearbox. Its up to MGS tbh. So learning from gbx's supposed "mistakes" wouldn't matter if they can't control them, themselves.

Do you really think HG gets to add all the features they'd like? Probably not, just like before, it'd have to get approved first by MGS\Bungie...and no one would want to "wake the sleeping dragon" we call Bungie from their Halo3 slumbers like its last victim, gearbox (Halo2 slumbers), did now would we ;p

HG probably doesn't even get to have a real say in a release date as much as Bungie does with Halo3, thus forcing them concentrate on again, making it a straight port. Save for the things again that MS wants Halo to show case.
For HaloPC that was DX9 and its shadyness.
For Halo2 its Windows Live! and Vista's game stuff.

Bottom line, if your going to blame anyone, blame Microsoft.

* Microsoft was the reason for Halo coming out on xbox first, then PC\Mac few years later.
* Microsoft was the one to hire gbx and more than likely were the ones who made up the guidelines to Halo's development (since Halo2 was in deep development at the time still)
* Microsoft was the one to hire HG. Who knows with this one, only time will tell.

  • 03.12.2007 1:29 PM PDT

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Do we know it was Microsoft who picked HG?

MS is giving Bungie a lot of say in things nowadays, probably learned from the H2 fiasco (fiasco in that H2 came off unfinished, it's a great game, but it reaks of rushingness).

Besides, Hired Gun is too cool a name for them to phail.

  • 03.12.2007 1:37 PM PDT
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Posted by: Anton P Nym
who says you have to be an ace to have fun?

Posted by: TUI_Obi_Wan
Stupid parents let their stupid children play games that are rated M when they should be playing Big Birds Spelling Adventures

Posted by: Kira Onime
Also the AR is actually good in CQB now and no longer a glorified baseball bat.

Posted by: Reaver225
What's more, even the original Halo was intended for the PC, while the original H2 was built ground-up for Xbox...


I'm pretty sure that the original Halo was intended for Mac, not PC.

  • 03.12.2007 2:18 PM PDT

"Looks like I picked the wrong day to stop smokin'!"

It was intended for both last I checked.

  • 03.12.2007 2:32 PM PDT
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Posted by: kornman00
It was intended for both last I checked.
Halo was originally an RTS made for the Mac. But instead, it became a first-person shooter made for the Xbox. They decided to port Halo to the PC and the Mac, but still as a first-person shooter.

At least, that's what I think.

  • 03.12.2007 2:54 PM PDT
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fact
*if it wasn't for Msoft's insistence on 56k support the netcode would actually be good.
*Gearbox was rushed
*gearbox was not given all the assets they needed for the game
*bungie doesn't give a shiite about the PC
*gearbox has a great record for other games
Should Gearbox have done better anyway? yeah. but it is mos def not all their fault.

*Halo 2 has nothing new
*halo 2 sucks on the Xbox already
*lack of updates prove that the port is not doing well
*Bungie does not give a shiite about the PC
*microsoft is force feeding Vista to all the n00bs who buy H2
*THE 360 CONTROLLER WILL HAVE AUTOAIM
*THE 360 CONTROLLER WILL HAVE AUTOAIM
*10 year old boys play halo 2
*THE 360 CONTROLLER WILL HAVE AUTOAIM

Will Halo 2 be WORSE than the port of Halo one? absolutely.

  • 03.12.2007 8:58 PM PDT
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Posted by: Aj6627
Posted by: Reaver225
What's more, even the original Halo was intended for the PC, while the original H2 was built ground-up for Xbox...


I'm pretty sure that the original Halo was intended for Mac, not PC.

That's correct.

Had things turned out differently, and Halo had become a Mac-exclusive game, I'm sure Bungie would have released a PC port of Halo, as they did with Marathon 2: Durandal and Marathon: Infinity.

This is the best explanation of Halo's storied tale of development I've found so far.

  • 03.13.2007 12:46 AM PDT
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Posted by: Ryanman7
fact

*Halo 2 has nothing new
*halo 2 sucks on the Xbox already
*lack of updates prove that the port is not doing well
*Bungie does not give a shiite about the PC
*microsoft is force feeding Vista to all the n00bs who buy H2
*THE 360 CONTROLLER WILL HAVE AUTOAIM
*THE 360 CONTROLLER WILL HAVE AUTOAIM
*10 year old boys play halo 2
*THE 360 CONTROLLER WILL HAVE AUTOAIM

Will Halo 2 be WORSE than the port of Halo one? absolutely.


1) Yes it does, to us PC gamers anyway.
2) That's your opinion.
3) Hired Gun is doing the port, not Bungie. There's stuff about Halo 2 Vista on other sources, though.
4) How is that?
5) It's a marketing scheme by Microsoft, which is a money-making business.
6) Where's your proof? I won't believe anything unless Microsoft, Bungie or Hired Gun themselves say there is.
8) A vast majority of the community, yes, but this is the PC version we are talking about, not the Xbox version.

  • 03.13.2007 1:17 AM PDT
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Posted by: Synthmilk
Yea well remember way back when when Bill Gates said the famous "Nobody will ever need more than 640K of RAM!"? I think that's what happened with HaloPC and their mandate for 56k support, they feared high speed wouldn't catch on with the majority of PC gamers for a while.

Obviously they are wrong, but I don't see how that mistake can be made again as anyone in a major population center has broadband...assuming their inteligent of course.

So no, I don't think Hired Gun will "be another Gearbox".

And GearBox messed up more than in the realm of netcode, so their not off the hook, and if Hired Gun has a bunch of graphics and trigger issues in Halo 2 Vista, then there will be hell to pay.

And will people stop complaining about lack of co-op, the way co-op works on a console is so beyond different from how it would work on a PC it's stupid to think it would be easy, unless, possibly, you dual screen, but even then I doubt that would work as split screen is specifically coded to make use of one output.

But I think if their smart they will be keeping the PC in mind while making Halo 3, because I think by the time we get Halo 3 PC, co-op will be the next great feature for PC games, especially with the whole Live Anywhere service.


MS's insistence on 56k support was more logistical than anything. Even though broadband was becoming more common, it still hadn't truly entered the average home. Most everyone has broadband now, because ISPs now have a good infrastructure to get high speed access to anyone without incurring a large price. Thus, broadband can be offered for a lower price. That is assuming that your local ISP isn't holding a regional monopoly on the market, like mine. My internet access is rediculously high, and only a fraction of what I can find only a half hour away, but it's the only thing being offered. I'm sure you can imagine how it was about six years ago with a bit of though to more easily understand MS's decision. I think it was a bad decision, but it was correct.

I'd like to know how Gearbox messed up. Are you talking about the multipurpose maps? (psst. that's your shiney AR and flagpole stuff). If you think that was them messing up, how else do you propose GBX get the game to run on hardware that simply doesn't have the potential to do what the code is asking it to do? If they included it, you'd suddenly change the minimum gpu requirement from a 32MB T&L card to something around a 64MB DX 9.0 card. At the time, that would be similar to a game comming out tomorrow and only nVidia's 7xxx line and AMD's X1xxx line only being able to run it. Or more realistic, a DX10 game being released next month. Halo being ported to PC was next-gen.

Also, how are you suggesting that code changes from console to PC? The split-screen code works the same way, it's just not a good and feasible design feature for a personal computer port.

  • 03.13.2007 3:37 AM PDT

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Posted by: Zeph
MS's insistence on 56k support was more logistical than anything. Even though broadband was becoming more common, it still hadn't truly entered the average home. Most everyone has broadband now, because ISPs now have a good infrastructure to get high speed access to anyone without incurring a large price. Thus, broadband can be offered for a lower price. That is assuming that your local ISP isn't holding a regional monopoly on the market, like mine. My internet access is rediculously high, and only a fraction of what I can find only a half hour away, but it's the only thing being offered. I'm sure you can imagine how it was about six years ago with a bit of though to more easily understand MS's decision. I think it was a bad decision, but it was correct.


That's actually what I meant by them fearing that broadband wouldn't catch on, cost issues to the consumer, so we agree on that.

I'd like to know how Gearbox messed up. Are you talking about the multipurpose maps? (psst. that's your shiney AR and flagpole stuff). If you think that was them messing up, how else do you propose GBX get the game to run on hardware that simply doesn't have the potential to do what the code is asking it to do? If they included it, you'd suddenly change the minimum gpu requirement from a 32MB T&L card to something around a 64MB DX 9.0 card. At the time, that would be similar to a game comming out tomorrow and only nVidia's 7xxx line and AMD's X1xxx line only being able to run it. Or more realistic, a DX10 game being released next month. Halo being ported to PC was next-gen.

You should know perfectly well that there are a number of games that have been released over the past year, or more, that at the time of release, kicked the arse of even the most uber end card out at that time. Halo's midrange graphics setting looks just fine to me, above that is eye candy for those with better cards, and GBX could have at least added proper shaders etc. to the max range settings if not mid range.

But most of the problems I have seen with the game are less related to graphics and more related to triggers and AI, there has only been one case when these glitches were not evident, and that was on my friends computer, a self build circa 2002, with the GeForce 5700, the one that everyone wanted but virtually no one got because it was discontinued.

When he upgraded his card, the glitches started, and the glitches were on my much older GeForce 4 Ti 4200 as well, perhaps it was driver related, but whatever it was, that was an annoying problem that was never fixed, on my wife's brand new machine I get the exact same glitches. So yea, I blame GBX for that, I know for a fact that trigger debugging is not that big of a problem, somone likely got lazy and didn't clean up a bit in memory before doing an addition, and so the glitches happen randomly.

Also, how are you suggesting that code changes from console to PC? The split-screen code works the same way, it's just not a good and feasible design feature for a personal computer port.

...

That is what I said, classic PC co-op is different than consol co-op, and as people don't want to play split screen on their monitors, and working it to hook up two keyboards and mice to your computer would be moronic anyway, the code to make co-op work over networks or the internet would have to be written from scratch, and I think we can agree that Halo's netcode, due to the 56k requirement, was not up to the task of syncing two computers for co-op play, triggers would be lagging all over the place.

  • 03.13.2007 5:42 AM PDT
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Do you not think that bad netcode might balance out some of the other things that remove so much skill from the game?

I don't know anything about hired gun, and this thread is practically just asking poeple if they like gearbox or not.

  • 03.13.2007 7:05 AM PDT

"Looks like I picked the wrong day to stop smokin'!"

"HURRRRRRR I suck, so this game must not require any skill to play derpa derpa doo!1111"

ffs, when you people ever shut the -blam!- up. Its a frickin' game for crying out -blam!- loud! Go find another game if you must -blam!- so much weapon balancing, netcode, and everything else that takes away from the require "skill" "needed" to play a game.
O, sorry, forgot can't teach an old -blam!- new tricks, no wonder you all insist on playing a game you act as the worst game in the world and that you could do way better and everyone would buy it because you know, liek, everything lulz!111!

  • 03.13.2007 8:56 AM PDT
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Posted by: Synthmilk
You should know perfectly well that there are a number of games that have been released over the past year, or more, that at the time of release, kicked the arse of even the most uber end card out at that time. Halo's midrange graphics setting looks just fine to me, above that is eye candy for those with better cards, and GBX could have at least added proper shaders etc. to the max range settings if not mid range.

But most of the problems I have seen with the game are less related to graphics and more related to triggers and AI, there has only been one case when these glitches were not evident, and that was on my friends computer, a self build circa 2002, with the GeForce 5700, the one that everyone wanted but virtually no one got because it was discontinued.

When he upgraded his card, the glitches started, and the glitches were on my much older GeForce 4 Ti 4200 as well, perhaps it was driver related, but whatever it was, that was an annoying problem that was never fixed, on my wife's brand new machine I get the exact same glitches. So yea, I blame GBX for that, I know for a fact that trigger debugging is not that big of a problem, somone likely got lazy and didn't clean up a bit in memory before doing an addition, and so the glitches happen randomly.

You speak of glitches, but don't give examples. That's plain old trolling without backing it up. As for games coming out that kick current-gen cards asses, your argument isn't valid. Halo was next-gen because of DX9 and SM2. My last statement would equate to Gearbox making that be the minimum requirements, not recommended. That would mean that if you had that old card that can play Halo now with no details and white characters in multiplayer, it wouldn't be able to play Halo if GBX simply ported Halo over and didn't leave any options to older hardware. It'd be the same as Crysis not supporting DX9.

GBX and Crytek went out of their way to make sure that older rigs can play the game in some form while the current/next-gen can play in all its glory. You might not think about this now, but the market share of cards that could play Halo with all the eye candy on at the time was significantly small; especially since custom builds and DIY rigs weren't as popular.

...

That is what I said, classic PC co-op is different than consol co-op, and as people don't want to play split screen on their monitors, and working it to hook up two keyboards and mice to your computer would be moronic anyway, the code to make co-op work over networks or the internet would have to be written from scratch, and I think we can agree that Halo's netcode, due to the 56k requirement, was not up to the task of syncing two computers for co-op play, triggers would be lagging all over the place.


Playing it might be different, but the code works the same. Reguardless of whether you use two keyboards, a keyboard and controller, or brain control the code still splits the screen the same. You're talking about something completely different now, than what you actually started with. The code for co-op would work on a computer just the same as it would on a console. Network co-op is completely different. So in that respect, you are right. You also have no clue what you're talking about with triggers, btw.

  • 03.13.2007 9:03 AM PDT

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Well sir, as I recall when I bought my PC in 2001, DX9 cards were the mid range, and Halo PC was released when? Oh yea, 2003.

So no, your DX9 comparative is not valid, DX9 cards had plenty of time to not only enter the market, but decrease in price to the point where Joe PC gamer could get a card that supported it.

And I have already given glitch examples a number of times in The Maw and am not going to bother listing them again, their not to the point where they prohibit gameplay, but they are annoying and highly noticeable, assuming you are actually paying attention to whats happening, instead of just shooting the next enemy.


And the network protocalls used to make a xbox-xbox co-op work are hardly comparable to those used in even a PC-PC connection, let alone the internet, it's more comparable to a serial PC-PC connection if anything, you can't make serial connection code work with ethernet connections, same way you can't just take an xbox-xbox connection code and tell it to work with ethernet, won't work, the protocolls are not compatable, and don't get started on some sort of emulator, there is no emulator that would allow playable co-op like that, there would be too much lag.

And your correct, I was just bull-blam!- the thing about triggers.

  • 03.13.2007 11:48 AM PDT

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