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This topic has moved here: Poll [30 votes]: If you were a mod would you ban both users
  • Poll [30 votes]: If you were a mod would you ban both users
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Subject: Personal thoughts on ethics
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Check your watch kid, 'cause its my time
Try what you want kid, cant stop my shine
Ill come in your world bringin nothing but pain
Dont -blam!- with me, you cant play my game

Moderator Notice: This user has been blacklisted from this forum. Until the user is removed from the blacklist, all posts this user has made have been hidden, and all topics created by this user have been censored.
  • 03.11.2007 7:07 PM PDT

­"You have to aim above the head, but then a little lower so you actually get it."

-John Mayer

After reading it a second time, it sounds he didn't make a topic insulting someone, but posted inside of a different topic. It also sounds like they've both had a bad history of this stuff.

If that's the case, then I delete both of their posts inside the thread and send them warnings. If either one does it again, they get a vacation.
If one of them bypasses the filter or makes it sound like they would intend to cause phsyical harm to the other one, they go on a 7 day visit to Group-only land.
Though it may even need to be a longer vacation depending on how many times/if they've been blacklisted before.

Though it's hard to tell exactly what to do without actually reading the posts, as the attacker could have just been teasing one of his friends with some kind of joke-attack, and the third party person may have taken it seriously and overreacted.


It really all depends on what they said and how they said it.

[Edited on 3/12/2007]

  • 03.11.2007 7:16 PM PDT

@trueunderdog

Chapter

Narwhallace Smithington: Gone, but not forgotten. Never approve of anything lil guy. <3
Furious George: The new -blam!-

This depends on how out of hand the flaming got. I would also use the search feature to see if they've had any more similar offenes. If the flaming was pretty out of hand and both posters tended to be jerks, they'd probably both get a week off. Before I did anything though I would talk to a seasoned moderator to make sure I'm making the right decision.

But then again, I'm not one of the boys in white so who knows if that's the proper way to handle the situation.

Edit: When I initially typed my reply, I had the same idea as Kamatzu but the reason I decided locking the thread wouldn't be a good idea is because the OP wasn't involved in any of the flaming. I would give both users a warning if they aren't repeat offenders, but most likely they'd get a week off.

[Edited on 3/11/2007]

  • 03.11.2007 7:17 PM PDT

Posted by: Deaths Divinity
If you were in a thread and someone made an unprovoked attack on another user by telling them not to post anymore or visit here at all, then a third party severely flamed the attacker, would you just ban the third party, ban both users, or the person who started the issue?


* The person who started the mess by flaming someone unprovoked should be blacklisted.

* The person who jumped in to defend the poster should be warned to notify a mod and not get involved.

* The OP should be given a hug personally by TGP.

  • 03.11.2007 7:35 PM PDT
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Destinypedia - The Wiki for Bungie's Destiny
Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

In my opinion, it's pretty clearcut.

First, assuming that the original thread is not spam or otherwise against the rules, I would leave it open. No fair to lock a valid thread because two imbeciles cannot stop their flaming. Being a moderator, I'd post in the thread (and depending on time, send PMs as well) warning everybody to stay on topic. I've found that such a warning is typically sufficient both in the regular forums and in groups.

Anybody who fails to stay on topic thereafter gets TEH BANT. If the two flamers within the legit thread have a history of flaming, or if their attacks are particularly horrible, I might consider a blacklist without the warning. It's a matter of degree and the true answer depends on the specifics of the situation.

  • 03.11.2007 8:37 PM PDT
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Im a warning man, I dont like banning people on the spot. A) Becuase sometimes people dont read the rules and just need direction B) It makes you enemies C) Im a nice guy.

It also depends on the topic and the degree of the flaming. I probably wouldnt ban the first guy becuase telling someone to stop posting could mean the person is spamming and or attacking him. If he isnt then that person really isnt doing anything wrong anyways and can ignore the other member's commands to leave. The flamer I might just leave alone depending on his flame record or depending on the content of his post.

There are too many factors to consider to make a definate choice on what to do, but I probably wouldnt ban either of them.

  • 03.11.2007 8:49 PM PDT

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Well, the situation isn't really ban-worthy. As was said before, I'd lock the thread and warn the users, but if it were on a much larger scale, I'd ban the attacker, and temporarily blacklist the third party.

  • 03.11.2007 8:53 PM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

Visit us and check out our games at Sandswept.net!

~~Pardon Our Dust.~~

Good thing 4 out of 9 guys here aren't mods.

Both parties get involved on their own, either one can choose not to flame back. It's both users fault, therefore both are punished.

[Edited on 3/11/2007]

  • 03.11.2007 9:18 PM PDT

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Posted by: UL71M4 G33K
Becuase sometimes people dont read the rules and just need direction


I believe Achilles1108 once said:

Ignorance of the rules is not an excuse.

  • 03.11.2007 9:31 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

I don't see how this question could be answered accurately. I don't see the interaction between people and see how things developed. It really depends on far too many variables that aren't exactly told by this "hypothetical" even assuming it's a hypothetical.

Me personally though, I'd probably give both people a 3-day vacation. Seriously, I don't see how that equivacates to such a huge punishment. Eh, but like I said, it would really depend on some other factors that I may or may not be getting from the OP's hypothetical. I guess I'm more of a "ban first, sort out later". But I guess it's easy for me to say because I don't have the option.

~B.B.

  • 03.11.2007 9:51 PM PDT
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I like to Rollick

Your question or poll is constructed poorly. From what I can decipher you name 3 possible "bans" ie the victim, the attacker, and the third party "vigilante". But your poll only has two choices...

Anyways I wouldn't moderate on generalities, and the way your question is set up it ignores a lot of the specifics. So I wouldn't have a definite answer.

The Edit adds more specifics giving the nature that this is a sort of attack on a moderators decision. If that is the case I can understand any of the possible actions that a moderator could take.


[Edited on 3/11/2007]

  • 03.11.2007 9:55 PM PDT
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Posted by: Mattbluhalofan
Posted by: UL71M4 G33K
Becuase sometimes people dont read the rules and just need direction


I believe Achilles1108 once said:

Ignorance of the rules is not an excuse.


How can you punish someone for something they didnt know not to do? This actually turns new members away from the forums. It kept me out of here for the better part of a year. I was banned for bumping. It was my second post and I was used to being able to bump on other forums. I waited at least 15 hours before bumping and I was banned. No warning, just temp-banned without explanation. So I didnt come back.

Ignorance isnt an excuse, but that doesnt mean you should come down hard on them for not knowing. Its like frankenstien. He didnt know not to kill, it was just how he survived, how he learned it. How can you punish him for something he doesnt understand?

Being too harsh on new members is not a good thing and doesnt help anyone. Be nice, direct them to the proper rules, and if they do it again, then get hard on them.

  • 03.11.2007 11:25 PM PDT
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Posted by: atomic weggie
* The OP should be given a hug personally by TGP.

I suck blood.

Depending on the severity of both the attacker's and the attack-ee's posts, I'd either warn or ban. It's all situational. But I usually treat unprovoked flaming seriously, because I can't think of anything mucher st00pid.

Posted by: Mattbluhalofan
Posted by: UL71M4 G33K
Becuase sometimes people dont read the rules and just need direction

I believe Achilles1108 once said:

Ignorance of the rules is not an excuse.

I agree with Ultima on this issue. That IS an excuse as far as I'm concerned, but if after being warned to read the rules you're not going to, you'll never do it. That's why I usually don't ban someone just after they've joined, unless it's obvious it's an alt for spamming.

I don't really like the "you did wrong, tuff" attitude that floats around the more active Septagon members and "mod wannabees". It makes us sound like dictators, when actual moderating isn't like that. If you're not going to allow a little bit of leeway in a situation, you're going to make mistakes.

People like that are cops who give speeding tickets to people who are having babies or give out fines for having no seatbelt on on a five minute journey with their disabled son on Christmas Eve (that one actually happened to my dad. That was a poor Christmas).

I've let people go more often than not, because their actual breakage of the rules wasn't that severe, and they were new members. I don't see any problem with that.

-TGP-

[Edited on 3/12/2007]

  • 03.12.2007 1:24 AM PDT

cockburnicus@live.com
New Flood


People like that are cops who give speeding tickets to people who are having babies or give out fines for having no seatbelt on on a five minute journey with their disabled son on Christmas Eve (that one actually happened to my dad. That was a [b]poor
Christmas).

I've let people go more often than not, because their actual breakage of the rules wasn't that severe, and they were new members. I don't see any problem with that.

-TGP-


I'm sorry I don't like sad Christmas'. I will make it better.

***Merry Christmas***
Sorry that may be somewhat inapropriate.

Erm in regard to the topic its hard to say i think i agree that its not specific enough and you should give most people some leeway, considering how much flaming goes on in some of the forums.

  • 03.12.2007 2:29 AM PDT

Posted by: Great_Pretender
Posted by: atomic weggie
* The OP should be given a hug personally by TGP.

I suck blood.
-TGP-


I bet you do you saucy minx.

  • 03.12.2007 7:40 AM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

Visit us and check out our games at Sandswept.net!

~~Pardon Our Dust.~~

Posted by: atomic weggie
Posted by: Great_Pretender
Posted by: atomic weggie
* The OP should be given a hug personally by TGP.

I suck blood.
-TGP-


I bet you do you saucy minx.


*vomits over in the corner for completely unrelated reason*

  • 03.12.2007 7:46 AM PDT

He watches every Hodgetwin video they put up...on ALL their channels. He calls them the Hodge Triplets, and considers himself the 3rd triplet. He's started talking and acting like them now. Every other line out of his mouth "Thaaas some BULLLLLL**** maaayne" or "Gotta make dem gainzzzz". He calls his biceps "gains". When he eats post-workout, he talks to his biceps, "Don't worry gains, I'm feeding you. Daddys gonna feed you, gainz *kisses biceps*".

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
I don't see how this question could be answered accurately. I don't see the interaction between people and see how things developed. It really depends on far too many variables that aren't exactly told by this "hypothetical" even assuming it's a hypothetical.


That's true.

In most any case, though, I'd probably just tell both users to shut up. If they kept going at it, I'd give them a warning and lock the thread. It'd have to be real serious for me to ban either of them, though.

  • 03.12.2007 8:07 AM PDT

-S

It depends on the situation. Normally, I'd just tell both sides to shut the hell up.

If it was inflammatory/spammy enough, I'd ban 'em both. If one of the people involved was the thread starter, I'd lock the thread as well.

I tended to try to catch people before the people they flamed could reply. Whenever I saw someone post "this post is worthless," or "u shud nevar post agan" or "this thred sux, kill urself" or whatever, I made them disappear for a week. The seven day blacklisting is the warning around here; it's not a moderator's job to babysit users that show up, don't read the rules, and post only to be a jackass to the other users.

  • 03.12.2007 8:07 AM PDT

You say tomato; I say potato.

I think that situation is a great one to use blind justice. In my opinion, the rules are the only warning a member gets. If the offense is not clearly stated in the rules; I'd give the member a verbal warning explaining how the rules should be interpreted.

I am not a mod, so I would just not post in that thread. I'd probably post a link of the thread in #moap.

  • 03.12.2007 8:43 AM PDT

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Posted by: Great_Pretender
I agree with Ultima on this issue. That IS an excuse as far as I'm concerned, but if after being warned to read the rules you're not going to, you'll never do it.


That last statement kind of nullifies the "ignorance is okay" argument. There is a twenty-four-hour hiatus upon first joining, wherein you cannot post in the forum. What you should do in that time is read the rules and stickies. So, therefore, lenience on ignorance shouldn't be employed because they had their chance. Let me give you an example.

A student has three days to do a homework assignment. They procrastinate until the final day to decide to work on it, when something happens, and they are unable to do it. Should the student be punished?

Yes. They had three days to do that, and wasted two. Granted, they can't control when those disruptive things happen, but they can make a potential problem nonexistent by doing the homework on the first two days.

The same goes for ignorance of rules. They had a whole day to read through those, and they neglected it. So, if they do something wrong, they should be punished, because it's their own fault for neglecting the rules.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not telling you how to do your job, I'm just voicing my opinion. In a debate, you have to be firm. You can't ever use "I think", because then it's all opinion-based, which has no factual ground.

People like that are cops who give speeding tickets to people who are having babies or give out fines for having no seatbelt on on a five minute journey with their disabled son on Christmas Eve (that one actually happened to my dad. That was a poor Christmas).

My sympathies, but that doesn't work well as a metaphor. A cop who gives a ticket to a man with his disabled son on Christmas is just a power-hungry, unsentimental control freak who feels no sympathy, and likes punishing people for illegitimate reasons.

However, as I stated earlier, neglecting the rules isn't a legitimate reason, due to the fact that new users have a full day to do so.

I've let people go more often than not, because their actual breakage of the rules wasn't that severe, and they were new members. I don't see any problem with that.

That's your opinion, and yours is by all means more important than mine, as you're a moderator. I do appreciate the fact that you're more lenient than most moderators, as well as more mature.

[Edited on 3/12/2007]

  • 03.12.2007 2:09 PM PDT

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Posted by: Shishka
It depends on the situation. Normally, I'd just tell both sides to shut the hell up.


Classic Shishka.

PS - I was watching "The Making of Halo 2" on my Halo 2 bonus disk, and I spotted you several times at the LAN party scene.

  • 03.12.2007 2:10 PM PDT
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I believe that both should be banned if that really happened. Both parties were flaming which is against the forum policy.

  • 03.12.2007 2:24 PM PDT
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Tact is for those who aren't witty enough to be sarcastic.

No use cryin' over Spillt Milk

I would flame everyone involved and BL people based on their responses to my reprimand. Some people deserve a good tongue-lashing.

  • 03.12.2007 3:51 PM PDT
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Yeah, but flaming the people who were caught flaming would also be against the rules so you would be Blacklisted too.

  • 03.12.2007 4:40 PM PDT

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