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Subject: Censorship
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Location: Outlaws' Summit.

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: Recon Number 54
But we almost have the trains running on time!


That made me giggle :P.

Stalin FTW!


fixt ^_^

  • 03.16.2007 2:16 PM PDT

Posted by: ICEMAN ASSASS1N
Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: Recon Number 54
But we almost have the trains running on time!


That made me giggle :P.

Stalin FTW!


fixt ^_^

And Benito Mussolini, and the Blue Beanie, and Cowboy Curtis and Jambie the Genie....
[/Ultimate Showdown]

[Edited on 3/16/2007]

  • 03.16.2007 2:27 PM PDT

Ach! Was ist los?

Posted by: Recon Number 54
But we almost have the trains running on time!

Don't know about you, but all this coal shoveling is killing my back.

If stuff is censored, it's because there are a lot of stupid lawsuit-happy bastards out there just waiting for a chance to nail us to the wall and chalk up another victory in their fanatical crusade against all that is fun and happy.

  • 03.16.2007 2:46 PM PDT
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Destinypedia - The Wiki for Bungie's Destiny
Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: BobBQ
If stuff is censored, it's because there are a lot of stupid lawsuit-happy bastards out there just waiting for a chance to nail us to the wall and chalk up another victory in their fanatical crusade against all that is fun and happy.


Hey, I love lawsuit-happy bastards. They keep people like me in business.

But regardless, I don't think that's the reason for any "censorship" that does occur here.... The lawsuit-happy plaintiffs would have nothing to sue over, considering that the only relevant law relating to speech in a public forum is the following:"Congress shall make no law . . . abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble."


[Edited on 3/16/2007]

  • 03.16.2007 2:53 PM PDT
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Posted by: twinkiemaker
I'm not convinced. You're going to have to mis-spell a lot more words if I'm going to believe you.
Typing is a second nature to me, being drunk won't disrupt it so easily... Let me put it this way... Look back to all the rock artists back in the 70s and 80s, and how flawless they play, most of the time of them making/playing their music, they were drunk...

  • 03.16.2007 3:07 PM PDT

Posted by: BobBQ
Posted by: Recon Number 54
But we almost have the trains running on time!

Don't know about you, but all this coal shoveling is killing my back.

If stuff is censored, it's because there are a lot of stupid lawsuit-happy bastards out there just waiting for a chance to nail us to the wall and chalk up another victory in their fanatical crusade against all that is fun and happy.

Bastards indeed my friend; bastards indeed.
Bastardly bastardized bastards they are.

  • 03.16.2007 3:14 PM PDT
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Just an observation.

To assume that censorship occurs as a direct result of active policing is simplistic in the extreme. Various factors can lead to different forms of censorship; at least in the sense that certain things are left out of conversation or are conspicuous in their regularly scheduled obliviousness.

Often, direct censorship is not needed if one can achieve 'ostensible diversity' (to borrow a phrase from someone who was very much concerned with the issue). The issue is a little more complex than people seem to appreciate; an interesting observation in its own right.

Anyway, just thought I'd comment.

[Edited on 3/16/2007]

  • 03.16.2007 3:25 PM PDT
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Destinypedia - The Wiki for Bungie's Destiny
Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: Chomskyite
Often, direct censorship is not needed if one can achieve 'ostensible diversity' (to borrow a phrase from someone who was very much concerned with the issue).


A concise but well written and utterly irrelevant post, my friend. However, I take issue not with the post's relevancy but rather the aforequoted text, which is a mischaracterization of "ostensible diversity" and is incorrect in its implications.

"Ostensible diversity," a phrase lovingly used by the evil-WWII-German-political-party-that-we-cannot-use-here Propaganda Minister Joseph Goebbels, is the result of effective direct censorship, and is not used to eliminate the NEED for direct censorship, but rather to hide the fact that direct censorship is indeed occurring.

"Ostensible diversity" is used to describe well-crafted propaganda issued by the government that seems, at first or simple glance, to include many diverse points of view, but really indeed leads to uniform resuls. As a very simple example, it would be like me posting an idea here on b.net on one account, then logging into an alternate account and posting a counter-argument that mostly agrees but takes issue with some meaningless immaterial adjunct to my idea. To the casual outside observer, it appears that there are slightly differing viewpoints but that everybody generally agrees. I have achieved a microcosm of "ostensible diversity."

On a larger scale, "ostensible diversity" is achieved by censoring ACTUAL differing viewpoints and substituting viewpoints that only SEEM to differ in small, immaterial ways. Direct censorship.

Thus, the phrase "ostensible diversity" actually means the opposite of the definition that you imply.

[Edited on 3/16/2007]

  • 03.16.2007 3:33 PM PDT
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Posted by: x Foman123 x
A concise but well written and utterly irrelevant post, my friend. However, I take issue not with the post's relevancy but rather the aforequoted text, which is a mischaracterization of "ostensible diversity" and slightly incorrect.

"Ostensible diversity," a phrase lovingly used by the evil-WWII-German-political-party-that-we-cannot-use-here Propaganda Minister Joseph Goebbels, is the result of effective direct censorship, and is not used to eliminate the NEED for direct censorship, but rather to hide the fact that direct censorship is indeed occurring.

Thus, the phrase "ostensible diversity" actually means the opposite of the definition that you imply.


You're right about the context or the original quote, but misunderstand the implications.

The term is used to describe how less censorship is needed in such environments. I never said anything about no censorship; merely stated that the amount of direct intervention is often dependant upon the environment in which potential censors are operating.

Still, I appreciate your criticism as it helps to clarify a most relevant point.


[Edited on 3/16/2007]

  • 03.16.2007 3:47 PM PDT
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Read about the Forgotten Spartan I Program
Butane: To protect the world from devastation!
sir_brilliant: To unite all people within our nation!
Rainman89: To denounce the evils of truth and love!
sir_brilliant: To extend out reach to the stars above!
SpaceGhostFlyer: Jessie!
Butane: James!
sir_brilliant: Team Rocket blasting off at the speed of light
Butane: Surrender now or prepare to fight
sir_brilliant: Meowth, that's right!

Posted by: BobBQ
Posted by: Recon Number 54
But we almost have the trains running on time!

Don't know about you, but all this coal shoveling is killing my back.


It builds character. So get used to it.

  • 03.16.2007 4:40 PM PDT
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God you guys are -blam!-s ;)
Posted by: Achronos
Bungie controls everything. You have no rights. Play nice.



  • 03.16.2007 5:55 PM PDT

"FOR YOUR OWN PROTECTION: Ensure brain is engaged before putting keyboard into gear."
Need a ninja?
Got a cheater? [email]h2cheats@microsoft.com[/email]
Forum Rules.
FAQ.
I'm certifiable.

The forum rules are to freedom of speech as traffic rules are to freedom of movement. Discuss.

-- Steve'll sit back and watch now. (Munches on popcorn.)

  • 03.16.2007 6:01 PM PDT
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Censorship is good. I don't like seeing a billion swear words left and right.

-HP23

[Edited on 3/16/2007]

  • 03.16.2007 6:05 PM PDT
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Posted by: jmh9072
Posted by: ICEMAN ASSASS1N
Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: Recon Number 54
But we almost have the trains running on time!


That made me giggle :P.

Stalin FTW!


fixt ^_^

And Benito Mussolini, and the Blue Beanie, and Cowboy Curtis and Jambie the Genie....
[/Ultimate Showdown]


Then Gandalf the Grey, and Gandalf the White, and Monty Python and the Holy Grail's Black Knight, and Benito Mussolini, and the Blue Meanie, and Cowboy Curtis, and Jambi the Genie, the Robocop, the Terminator, Captain Kirk and Darth Vadar, Lo Pan, Superman, every single Power Ranger, Bill S. Preston and Theodore Logan, Spock, the Rock, Doc Ock, and Hulk Hogan

  • 03.16.2007 6:38 PM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

Visit us and check out our games at Sandswept.net!

~~Pardon Our Dust.~~

Posted by: Anton P Nym
The forum rules are to freedom of speech as traffic rules are to freedom of movement. Discuss.

-- Steve'll sit back and watch now. (Munches on popcorn.)

Down in front!

Censorship keeps things clean, fun, and organized. It's not fun to have custom avatars, crazy amounts of emotes, and who-know-what in signatures. Even if the moderators get to it, it's still been shown.

Prevention is better than clean up!

  • 03.16.2007 7:12 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: SS_Zag1
Posted by: Anton P Nym
The forum rules are to freedom of speech as traffic rules are to freedom of movement. Discuss.

-- Steve'll sit back and watch now. (Munches on popcorn.)

Down in front!

Censorship keeps things clean, fun, and organized. It's not fun to have custom avatars, crazy amounts of emotes, and who-know-what in signatures. Even if the moderators get to it, it's still been shown.

Prevention is better than clean up!


The only reason I'm posting this is to give Steve-o something to watch!

Anyways, prevention only keeps the people that would fail to use common sense from hurting themselves. That's really what regulations are anyways, a practice in common sense. It is common sense that it's probably not the wisest thing to do "A Hundid' on da Highway" but those with little common sense if it's not spelled out for them, they think that it is okay to do.

Prevention really only protects those that Darwin's survival should have taken out a long time ago. Without prevention, chances are that the cess-pool of the gene pool would get a little cleaner if not for preventions/regulations.

Are you satisfied Steve??!?!?!

~B.B.

  • 03.17.2007 3:32 AM PDT
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Posted by: x Foman123 x
Are you seriously saying that the terms of use and forum rules have restricted your promulgation of ideas?

This is a perfect example of why I dislike 'controversial' topics being discussed here in the Septagon. The letters-to-words ratio is off.
My brain hurts.

  • 03.17.2007 3:57 AM PDT

"FOR YOUR OWN PROTECTION: Ensure brain is engaged before putting keyboard into gear."
Need a ninja?
Got a cheater? [email]h2cheats@microsoft.com[/email]
Forum Rules.
FAQ.
I'm certifiable.

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Are you satisfied Steve??!?!?!

Not quite. Consider the effects (both short term and long term) on bystanders as well as transgressors. Also, consider how the rules affect the overall expression of those freedoms.

-- Steve'll throw out a hint; do traffic lights make it easier or harder to make a turn?

  • 03.17.2007 6:08 AM PDT

This is a corporate, privately owned site, and as such has NO such obligations to presentation, ESPECIALLY not to offending people's political or religious beliefs. Any such decisions on policy are purely voluntary, and are in no way obligatory.
Bungie is here to make money, not to make people happy. If Bungie makes people happy through the process of playing their video games, great, but satisfying everyone's sensitive personalities because a marine in a video game is catholic should be the least of their concerns.



Posted by: GameJunkieJim
Censorship is only practiced if such being said is in violation of the rules.

This is a corporate, privately owned site, and as such has certain obligations to presentation, namely topics that do not offend peoples political or religious beliefs, and threats made to users, or slander of someone's persona.

There are private Groups that allow for some bending of the site rules, but on the public forums, we try to maintain some decency.

  • 03.17.2007 6:17 AM PDT

Ergo, you speak when and where they tell you to speak, and you are in violation of the law otherwise. The last time I checked, that was censorship and certainly NOT freedom.

  • 03.17.2007 6:19 AM PDT
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Posted by: Anton P Nym
-- Steve'll throw out a hint; do traffic lights make it easier or harder to make a turn?


That's not fair. You're just going to get what you want to hear.

-blake

  • 03.17.2007 10:31 AM PDT
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Posted by: Savag3Shadow
Ergo, you speak when and where they tell you to speak, and you are in violation of the law otherwise. The last time I checked, that was censorship and certainly NOT freedom.


So what you're saying is that we're free... to do as they tell us?

Refreshing change of tone... but you're most likely going to be instructed as to the error of your thinking by those whom can perceive the 'general good'; especially when contemplating what to do about all those pesky slobs who can't spell etc.

It's interesting to follow your train of thought though. I mean, one implication of the scenario you describe would be the eventual tendency of people to refrain from comments pre-determined to oppose the rules; or at least from behaviour frowned upon and liable to bring the wrong kind of attention upon onself. Many other predictable traits and habits might also emerge over time.

Still, this is a forum for a game developer. I'm not wasting my time getting carried away. I really don't care whether the place is 'free'... I just care about interacting with others about Halo related topics.

  • 03.17.2007 10:37 AM PDT

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