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This topic has moved here: Subject: Remember the ghost of Lockout?
  • Subject: Remember the ghost of Lockout?
Subject: Remember the ghost of Lockout?
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I make my own halo maps and here is some halo reverse engineering basics. This could explain things.
1. When you load a map, it is decompressed and trasfered to the cache drive.
2. The more times you play that map in a row, with no other maps in between, or the longer you play that map at a time you could say that the Halo & Halo 2 engines make some mistakes and throw some "garbage" into the map files. This garbage is simple code fragments that cause the halo games to behave funny. I tcauses these funny effects because the extra inserted garbage code throws off the "pointer", which directs the halo engines to where they need to read in the map file. What happened to you most likely was after leaving that map running for so long, the engine threw so much garbage in there, that it actually spawned a "clone" player that was capable of killing.

Insult me all you want but I make my own custom maps and I know this is possible. Don't insult me for being a modder, I don't use live because I know it would be wrong to mod online. I think I solved this. Also it doesn't have to be a modded map for this to happen, it can happen on any map: THESE GUYS AREN'T MODDERS!!!!!!

  • 04.06.2007 1:00 PM PDT
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I think that my answer above is the source of the ghost. It was caused by the large amount of time passed on that map. I call this a solved case.

  • 04.06.2007 2:56 PM PDT
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You're all BLAMing idiots...

  • 04.06.2007 3:04 PM PDT
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Posted by: EnderJ
You're all BLAMing idiots...

And that was a totally pointless & incorrect post.

  • 04.06.2007 3:24 PM PDT

еat аll уour рies іn ѕecret сamps
the Shadows are watching.

Posted by: Echo 1217
I make my own halo maps and here is some halo reverse engineering basics. This could explain things.
1. When you load a map, it is decompressed and trasfered to the cache drive.
2. The more times you play that map in a row, with no other maps in between, or the longer you play that map at a time you could say that the Halo & Halo 2 engines make some mistakes and throw some "garbage" into the map files. This garbage is simple code fragments that cause the halo games to behave funny. I tcauses these funny effects because the extra inserted garbage code throws off the "pointer", which directs the halo engines to where they need to read in the map file. What happened to you most likely was after leaving that map running for so long, the engine threw so much garbage in there, that it actually spawned a "clone" player that was capable of killing.

Insult me all you want but I make my own custom maps and I know this is possible. Don't insult me for being a modder, I don't use live because I know it would be wrong to mod online. I think I solved this. Also it doesn't have to be a modded map for this to happen, it can happen on any map: THESE GUYS AREN'T MODDERS!!!!!!

Finally an explanation that makes sence. And I noticed that you said you were a modder, but you dont mod online. Thats not what most people do. You deserve a cookie for admitting that, and another cookie for not playing on line. Thats the right way to mod, not like to people that go and mod just to get a high number next to their name. Thats why I stopped playing online for a while, and actually modded to see exactly how it was done. But I am no longer modded, so I play online.

Anyway, your expaination is the first one that actually makes sence to me. I am now going to go test it. Do you know how long you would have to play for this to happen, of should I just leave my xbox on all night and wait for it to happen?

  • 04.06.2007 3:36 PM PDT

Let there be CHAOS!

Lol, I'm going to try it too. It's not like I play Halo 2 much anyways. *Loads a map, turns off TV*

...Hope this works on the 360 as well.

  • 04.06.2007 3:54 PM PDT
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Thank you Insanity Man. And to answer your question, I would say that it would take quite a long time. Also it may speed the process up by playing the map, stopping, and starting the map repeatedly. Then try leaving the map running for long periods of time. In halo 1 the data corruption happened easier, some of the most obvious and common examples of this corruption is when you throw a grenade and it vanishes, or your body falling through a floor or wall when you die, or when random crazy things happen to the AI characters, or a shadow is miscalculated and shown through a solid object. There are many more things that can happen from this "garbage" code, and the ghosts may be one of them. Once again, thank you Insanity Man.

  • 04.06.2007 3:59 PM PDT
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The ghost of lockout video was a mod/spoof video made for the rockets on prisoner awards. That was the only footage of a ghost in halo2. It did come from a mod. Now about a year later this pops up. Now ask yourself this, if no one in the rest of the world ever has had this happen how did these two guys have a ghost appear?

  • 04.06.2007 4:13 PM PDT
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Who said that it didn't happen to anyone else?
Also to Insanity Man, I don't even subscribe to Live because I don't believe in cheating, I mod because I like to feel the accomplishment of creating something, and because I'm a little tired of the old Bungie maps.

[Edited on 04.06.2007 4:18 PM PDT]

  • 04.06.2007 4:16 PM PDT
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Another thing that I am noticing( I am trying this to and generating a hex offset file to compare the map before and after) is that the Halo 2 Engine has some odd tendencies. I don't understand why Bungie would have it do this, maybe to try and stall modding by making it harder to trade cached maps without bugs. I do know that if you want to make a PPF patch for a cache map that you must "decrap" the map to make a working patch. The "decrapping" eliminates all of this "garbage" code. I would also have people join and quit the game repeatedly to try and speed the process up. This would make the corruption worse because the game would have to load different data(as if a player who played as an elite were to join a match where all the players were spartans) and it would therefore increase the number of times the engine had to access the map file.

EDIT: Also it seems that this data corruption is (as I expected) higher towards the ares accessed the most. That would explain why the ghost had the same emblem as the other player, it was a fragment of that code that was included with ghost.

[Edited on 04.06.2007 4:28 PM PDT]

  • 04.06.2007 4:26 PM PDT

"I came here to chew bubble gum and kick ass, and I'm all outta bubble gum."

Original Halo Fan

Member Since Spring '04

IT IS NOT A GHOST...I don't know if you are trying to trick others or if you've been tricked, but notice that at 2:08 or before that when he dies you see one player who is grayed out still earning time, it goes from 2:58 to 3:00 before he respawns. Either a modder or a good glitch and/or photoshop.

EDIT... Veneusa is not the ghost. GO to vTx ItWasLethal's games and go to the "unrelieable" BAckwash game and look at the stats. I don't know how he got it to only go up to 30 seconds in the final score. Veneusa had 2:59 and was out of the game, but in Bungie's game report it says he only got 30 second...vTxRaven's score continued to rise while it said he was out of game...how is this so?

[Edited on 04.06.2007 4:43 PM PDT]

  • 04.06.2007 4:28 PM PDT
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I am not trying to trick others, I'm trying to offer a logical, coding explanation for this. There are plenty of things that can also happen from the code corruption that I explained above, if you would have bothered to read the examples. I am saying this could have been caused by some severe corruption to the map code. Also another thing, I think someone posted here about you needing to mod to capture video, this is not true, you only need a video capture card on your PC and some RJ45 Network cable. Also if this was edited footage, they would have wasted 100+ United States Dollars on film editing software capable of doing this. I have also heard of other people experiencing this same phenomenon.

[Edited on 04.06.2007 4:41 PM PDT]

  • 04.06.2007 4:40 PM PDT
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Also if this was total -blam- then why hasn't a forum ninja locked it yet, this thread has been open for a while now.

  • 04.06.2007 4:56 PM PDT
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I have personally never had a "ghost" in a game before, but I am a computer programmer, and I have seen program fragments behave on their own. I made a program once in C++, and it would activate after the computer booted up. It was a simple questionaire that would responde based on your answers. It asked you how your day was going. You said fine, it said something. You said bad, it asked you why, and tried to comfort you. It was pretty complex coding. Well, one day a booted up the program, and said I was doing bad (That is the more complex end of the program.) I ran the program yesterday, and it worked perfectally. Today, when the program should have asked what happened, it started shooting out random comments, numbers, etc. It was weird. I took it to a friend of mine, and found a string of code that was behaving out of context. We couldn't find a way to fix it and had to scrap the entire program. I still don't know what happened. That was five years ago. It still bothers me...

  • 04.06.2007 6:07 PM PDT
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Posted by: Crimson Fire852
I have personally never had a "ghost" in a game before, but I am a computer programmer, and I have seen program fragments behave on their own. I made a program once in C++, and it would activate after the computer booted up. It was a simple questionaire that would responde based on your answers. It asked you how your day was going. You said fine, it said something. You said bad, it asked you why, and tried to comfort you. It was pretty complex coding. Well, one day a booted up the program, and said I was doing bad (That is the more complex end of the program.) I ran the program yesterday, and it worked perfectally. Today, when the program should have asked what happened, it started shooting out random comments, numbers, etc. It was weird. I took it to a friend of mine, and found a string of code that was behaving out of context. We couldn't find a way to fix it and had to scrap the entire program. I still don't know what happened. That was five years ago. It still bothers me...


Thank you for your input. So do you think what I am saying is a plausible explanation for this guy's ghost? To me it seems the most logicl way, but it would have needed a lot of corruption to make that happen, a lot...

  • 04.06.2007 6:10 PM PDT

Glitchfinder finder of all or some glitches.
Offical spartan of the Flood

EPIC WIN!!!!
the last post by Pezza is funny
My real gamertag is SPOONGUARD131

Posted by: commander hawk
if you look towards the end of the video the supposed ghost kills that pink guy but when he presses the back button it shows the pink guy is not dead so i am very certain thdey are modding. another thing i noticed was have u ever noticed when you are getting modded hwen a modder moves his feet dont move it is the same with this fake ghost they are obvilously modding. NOOBS

i've played a modded game at a friends house.its true because the size of the map makes it hard to move.so you would normally teleport or run extremly fast

  • 04.06.2007 6:37 PM PDT
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Posted by: Spartan131
Posted by: commander hawk
if you look towards the end of the video the supposed ghost kills that pink guy but when he presses the back button it shows the pink guy is not dead so i am very certain thdey are modding. another thing i noticed was have u ever noticed when you are getting modded hwen a modder moves his feet dont move it is the same with this fake ghost they are obvilously modding. NOOBS

i've played a modded game at a friends house.its true because the size of the map makes it hard to move.so you would normally teleport or run extremly fast


That is not all mods, the thing where the feet don't move would be caused by the map maker deleting the animation for the feet. Also, when I was watching the movie, I didn't see any sort of modified content. Plus, why would these guys post here especially when their XBL accounts would be at risk for modding. Also as I stated before, I think this would have been ninjafied already if it was a total fake.

  • 04.06.2007 6:50 PM PDT

thanks for the feedback guys. This was definately a wierd event that just happened to be caught on video. we were stumped by it, and we had'nt seen any similar video since the ghost of lockout. so what better way to figure out the explanation than to bring it to the attention of the community. keep the theories coming.

  • 04.07.2007 7:16 PM PDT

Posted by: Sharpest
I believe we are intelligent, but we prefer to act stupid.

~The Flood

Posted by: MHADMagnumXX
Posted by: Saboteur36
Bungie has been known to put a lot of wierd stuff in their games, so I believed you at first. Then I looked at all the evidence, and I still believe you. the only thing is, the ghost player's emlem looks kinda like vTx raven. You should ask him if he's been moding. if not, then it's crazy! I think I am going to go on live and try this right now...

Edit: here is the address to the game stats page

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStats.aspx?gameid=680180955&a mp;mode=Halo2&player=vTx%20ItWasLethal


I seriously doubt that its possible to easily recreate what is seen in the video. We're not at all sure what triggered this to happen.


CRAP! If that wasn't purged, we could see if there was a guy there that wasn't supposed and stuff...do you think they purposely waited until the game was purged? Plus, why does this guy have his friends video? I suspect something...

  • 04.07.2007 8:07 PM PDT

Posted by: Stevemcguy
Posted by: MHADMagnumXX
Posted by: Saboteur36
Bungie has been known to put a lot of wierd stuff in their games, so I believed you at first. Then I looked at all the evidence, and I still believe you. the only thing is, the ghost player's emlem looks kinda like vTx raven. You should ask him if he's been moding. if not, then it's crazy! I think I am going to go on live and try this right now...

Edit: here is the address to the game stats page

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStats.aspx?gameid=680180955&a mp;mode=Halo2&player=vTx%20ItWasLethal


I seriously doubt that its possible to easily recreate what is seen in the video. We're not at all sure what triggered this to happen.


CRAP! If that wasn't purged, we could see if there was a guy there that wasn't supposed and stuff...do you think they purposely waited until the game was purged? Plus, why does this guy have his friends video? I suspect something...


vTx ItWasLethal is my cousin, and i told him i would make a thread with a link to the video on B.net since i'm on here all the time.

  • 04.09.2007 11:56 AM PDT
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Hey i just got a message from a guy named "Message From" is that anythin to worry bout cuse i had a friend that got the same message and he couldnt log onto the inter net for a varry long time

  • 04.11.2007 5:36 PM PDT
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Why didn't you make a real attempt of killing the ghost? Also, some of the announcing of the "Hill Contested" seemed to sound like "You pesky!..." I'll go with the map garbage, since there is real proof backing that up. If i had 10 hours to leave the Xbox on for, i would try this too.

  • 04.11.2007 6:51 PM PDT
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___.............._______/```````````````:::--..
|.==,-.~;. ____:._____'__ '__'__'__'__ _\===
|................--:---:--:--‘---:,, ,,, ,,, ,,,:---: /=
`-.,.__._._,,...---:::"/

Posted by: dragonlord154
Hey i just got a message from a guy named "Message From" is that anythin to worry bout cuse i had a friend that got the same message and he couldnt log onto the inter net for a varry long time


No its not bad, it happened to me about 3 times. I dont think you should worry about it though.

  • 04.11.2007 6:52 PM PDT

-thirst

Wow. I love how the people at Bungie.Net think they know everything. There are 4 types of people here.

1.) The moderators (Awesome people.)
2.) The new users (Aren't -blam!- holes.)
3.) The regulars (Know-it-all-blam!-holes.)
4.) The people who have been here for a while, but randomly come here when they are bored, however they know what they are talking about. (Me, and a few other users I have seen around the forums.)

--------------------
Bottom line, do some researching before you post a so-called "FACT". The ghost of lockout does not randomly just "happen". It can be repeated over and over again. Im not going to go into detail but you must know 2 things. 1.) You must know who the host is. and 2.) You must know who the secondary host is.

Now, some people (the #3. people) will try and tell me that Im wrong, I need to STFU and that that is used for making clones of people. However, this is also used to make these so-called "Ghosts". It is also how you get below the vents in foundation, how you overload maps, so on and so forth.

Explanation - Basically, when host leaves some things respawn and others dont.
-Example, lets say someone has invisiblity, and the host leaves. That person will have infinite invisibility until killed and respawned.
-Example 2, (this is more common). Say you were playing Lockout TS. You blow up the barrels at S3 (Where the sniper spawns.) Then, right after you do, host leaves. The boxes that you just blew up will be there again + the trash (Both end of them) from the earlier explosions. You can do this over and over, thus overloading the map.


Hopes this helps someone.

  • 04.11.2007 7:19 PM PDT

I would like to invite you to the most active group there is, Black Water Ops... Boasting over 3,900 members this is one of the fastest growing groups and proven to be one of the most active b.net groups. An amazing experience awaits you with weekly game nights, photo contests, and forging contests. This is one decision you won't regret.

chillax? definantly a floodian.
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1 word in a sort of way even though people posted and there are 4 pages: Spam!

  • 05.14.2007 3:49 PM PDT