Halo 2 Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Rank reset.
  • Subject: Rank reset.
Subject: Rank reset.

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

I'm really not sure what to think right now. One of the few things I do know is that Bungie has never aimed for the short-term happiness of its players, which has always turned out better for the general population.

When I balance my rank being kept, or the cheating population being desimated, I know I would choose having the cheating population being reduced. It's a sacrifice I am willing to make, and I'm glad Bungie has choosen that path.

One thing I have noticed as a member is that we (as a community) are infamous for our short-term thinking and ranting. Such cases were obsevered with the addition/removal of Team SWAT. The people who dislike an issue will always tend to complain about it, while those who truly appreciate it won't speak out. This is just human tendency, and I am not going to hold anyone accountable for it. I am sure that once we have time to digest the changes made, and begin to see the positives of the actions, we will find ourselves thinking back to the time when we used to get cheated and didn't have Hang 'Em High as a Halo 2 map.

However, there are downsides to such changes especially considering outside influences. True, ranks were reset a while back, and were probably met with equal or greater opposition. But times have changed, and a new console is out. Halo 2 isn't the most played Xbox Live game played anymore, and its online population has dropped by a significant ammount. Such radical new changes can (and probably will) hurt the already weakend population, and should be taken very seriously (which I am also sure it has).

I am still not sure that it is completly nessisary though. Halo 3 is just around the corner, and Halo 2 will fade into memory. I'm pretty sure that simply adding the new maps would have been enough fuel to keep the community going until Fall, and we would have endured without the banhammer updates and rank resets.

Although it may not seem very clear now, this new feature can help th Halo 3 population. Previously, Bungie has said that bans will carry over to Halo 3 from Halo 2, so the new Banhammer updates will ensure that nuch of the cheating population is exterminated before it has time to infest Halo 3. This can only be positive and we should thank Bungie for the great work they have done in the past and now.

But my one plea to the community is that we reserve our judgement for a time when we have greater understanding of the issue, and can se both sides. Then we can weigh our personal balances and begin to judge. I applaud Bungie for being brave with such a risky change, and only time will tell if it was worth the risk or not.

  • 04.08.2007 9:22 AM PDT
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Posted by: Jablonzo
fine we agree to disagree but I can promise you I have played more games of halo 2 online in the past two years. Probably about 5,000 too many. LITERALLY 90% of the time blue screen happens for more than 10 seconds is because the host is stand-bying. Otherwise why would such a poor host get host while I have an 1800 kbps upload?? Also what I meant was that stand-byers press the button putting you into blue, then they release it and then press it again and you're still in blue, you can tell what's going on by paying attention to the messages in blue screen and flashes on the screen, I'm telling you that these are my observations after playing close to 15,000 games on xbl.
Actually, if the host is standbying correctly the blue screen shouldn't appear at all. To say that a standbyer would put you in it for 10 seconds is rediculous - they'd lag out. They fear the blue screen when they're doing it. Also, your 1800 kbps upload doesn't mean you're going to host more games. A 384 kbps upload can comfortably host an 8 player game. It's not a matter of them picking bad hosts, it's a matter of lag. It happens when you're on the internet. I know when I'm hosting, from time to time it would go to blue screen and I'd have to run upstairs and beat my sister untill she stops sending -blam!- on AIM.

  • 04.08.2007 9:27 AM PDT

"Any Rational Society will either kill me, or put me to some use.", Hannibal Lector

When everyone is back to 1 and a small calm goes over the halo 2 community...............................im gonna de-level.

  • 04.08.2007 10:40 AM PDT
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You can ban me for saying this however i dont think that its a good ideo to start with beacuse you are ressting the rank whilst your bringing out 2 new map ( yea beacuse your switching servers for the halo 3 beta ranks blah balh lol if you wanna know i think its going to bring TONES more cheaters , im in a clan were there are LOADS of SYMBOLs yea i dont know wethere there legit however there all really dissapointed and let down ) personally i dont mind however an update is something not to much around with beacuse for some information before the first ever update there was over 500,000 players a day on halo 2 , now were struggling to even get a max of 50,000 , thats saying something :)!

  • 04.08.2007 10:59 AM PDT
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Posted by: buttons buster
This was not very well thought out.
Lots of people that were once loyal fans are going to leave bungie by the wayside.
This will also lead to an increase in cheating.
This plan was not very well thought out, and i was wondering what was the reasoning behind it?
Thanks.


I for one will play halo more not less once the stats are reset. -blam!- the -blam!- modders that -blam!- me out of my -blam!- level 100 -blam!- times. I cant wait for the reset. Long Live bungie!!!!!!

  • 04.08.2007 11:15 AM PDT
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Okay lets look at it mathematically.
To reach a level 40 again, you need to play about 100 games (and win them all). So thats about 100 * 10 = 1,000 minutes of gameplay.... if you win every single game. Lets say you win 75% of the games. That is about 150 * 10 or 1500 minutes of game play. Keep in mind, that its probably more, because of loss of rank, and stuff, so maybe around 2000 minutes of gameplay, to get a level 40 back in 1 play list. Now multiply that by 8. 16,000 minutes of gameplay. Now add, that there will be a ton of other level 40s, so your chances are seriously down, of getting matched against weaker players. So probably around 20,000 minutes, or 333 hours of gameplay, to achieve the correct rank in every play list. I think this is a "low" estimate, it will probably be much longer. If people average 3 hours of gameplay a day, we're talking about 111 days, or over 3 months, for the ranks to stabilize. At 5 hours a day ( a very long time) think around 66 days, or over 2 months for the ranks to stabalize.

More Reasons Why A Rank Reset is a Bad Idea

  • 04.08.2007 11:30 AM PDT
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see i was wondering how the new banhammer will really stop delevers at all i mean why don't they run in let the other team get a kill then just let the other team kill them for the rest of the game. I happen to be a higher level in halo 2 with this update i'm gonna be playing with kids 30 levels lower then me so what happens if i BXR or double shoot them will the interpret this as cheeting i will get banned? but i also agree with the stat reset because trying to get my level i was cheated many times so maby it will be easier to get back if everything goes right with the update.

  • 04.08.2007 11:31 AM PDT
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i love it how ALL you kids on here arent any good.
i apologise to any of you above rank 36. because we all know this reset is total [5h17] ill get my legit 40. easy, reseting ranks will make it soooo easy.
ill go in with a party of 4 guys i know, one of them being my double team partner, if any of you care were semi-pro. so yeah, ranks mean nothing, ranks are just a number. get a life. you wouldnt play if there was no rank. thered be no point.
bungie are resetiing the ranks, not because of an update that makes no sense, but as someone else has allready said, 'to keep a dying game alive' im sorry i cant quote you bro i cba to sort through this board full of people agreeing the rank reset is good, theyre all under lvl 25, i can get a 30 in half a day no cheating.
ill get my rank back, but i dont see why i should have to. bungie need to actually look at what theyre doing to their system, theyve created second lives for people.
second lives theyre about to destroy.

add me on Xbl. im changing my tag tommorow (9/04/07)
atm its 'KTS HAYWIRE'
but my clan is dead, so im changing it to
'I1I JuLieT'

im up for playing ts with anyone up to the reset.
so come play kids.
get over the reset.
x

[Edited on 04.08.2007 12:16 PM PDT]

  • 04.08.2007 12:14 PM PDT
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Posted by: l1l JuLieT
i love it how ALL you kids on here arent any good.
i apologise to any of you above rank 36.

lawl

So anyone above 37 is good? What about the guys who are 36, went in and won because of derankers? What about the level 32 who said.."wtf am I doing".. let's play some mlg and went off to be pros?

You are one of the conceited high levels. You think anyone with a high level is pro and everyone else is garbage. Well mr.pro, noone cares.


Hell, you're barely a 37. And all your other ranks are garbo. What about them? I say anyone who doesn't have a 3 in BTB is sucky. What does this make you?

[Edited on 04.08.2007 12:20 PM PDT]

  • 04.08.2007 12:19 PM PDT
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IT IS A FREAKING NUMBER YOU CHILDREN!!!! A NUMBER!!!!! get over it, it's just a rank... the rank system is to help matching people up by skill level... who cares if you have a high rank! you prolly cheated if you're high anyways! if you played on a team w/ a cheater and didn't quit, guess what? YOU CHEATED!!! Get over it people. Everything does need to be reset! It's only fair for the people who have never cheated and have been affected by cheating. Regardless, who cares! Bungie, TAKE OUT THE RANKING SYSTEM! Make it hidden! Match us without us seeing a rank even! Shut the little kindargarten girls up! It's a freaking number, I cannot believe people get so worked up over it. JUST PLAY THE GAME!!!!

  • 04.08.2007 12:24 PM PDT
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to be fair who judges people on their Btb?
nobody.
im barely 37 because of all the S x h x i x tx matches i get.
plus giving it big on a site isnt cool anymore. go cry to your mom because you coulsnt get past 22,

x

[Edited on 04.08.2007 12:30 PM PDT]

  • 04.08.2007 12:28 PM PDT
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Posted by: l1l JuLieT
nobody who's ever got a good rank in halo2 (not a 30 you bad kids) like a 39 totaly legit, plays once a week.

39 sucks.


Now what?





Now stop calling out and stop talking trash.

  • 04.08.2007 12:30 PM PDT
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your pathetic kid.

39 doesnt suck.
we both know that.

stop being such a loser and go play some halo2, get owned because your bridger is offline.
x

  • 04.08.2007 12:33 PM PDT
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anyways.
im out.
if you want to talk some more xs.h.i.tx feel free to PM me, ill be happy to laugh at your cheap attempts to outwit me.
x

  • 04.08.2007 12:37 PM PDT
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Posted by: l1l JuLieT
your pathetic kid.

39 doesnt suck.
we both know that.

stop being such a loser and go play some halo2, get owned because your bridger is offline.
x

But why do 30s suck? Because you say so? Wow. That's a good reason. How come when I say 39s suck, I'm an idiot?


ok.

  • 04.08.2007 12:41 PM PDT

Ya see, the kids, they listen to the rap music, which gives 'em all the brain damage! With their hippin' and the hoppin', and the bippin' and their boppin', THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THE JAZZ IS ALL ABOUT!!! Ya see, jazz is like; jello pudding. Hah, no! Jazz is more like; kodak film. No, jazz is like; the new coke! It'll be around forever. Heh heh heh....

LMAO. To anyone that whines about this, heres what I want you to do: kill yourself.

  • 04.08.2007 12:46 PM PDT
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Posted by: goldhaze1
LMAO. To anyone that whines about this, heres what I want you to do: kill yourself.


LMAO lol mcrofl lolol lol

wow...hhaa lol..rofl rofl

lolollololololol rofl




=/

  • 04.08.2007 12:48 PM PDT
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39 is significantly higher than 30 therefore the skill level of legitimate players at level 39 will be significantly higher.
thats why.
you cant win kid.
you have the debating skills of a 10 year old boy who wants monny to buy the green sweets instead of the sugar free ones.
quit trying to outwit me.
why dont you go pick apart the whole bungie forum, and tell them how good the rank reset will be?
oh yeah, thats why, because you have no reasoning. all your posts are short and lack backup.
its an OPINION. do they not teach you about opinions in pre-school?
x

[Edited on 04.08.2007 12:51 PM PDT]

  • 04.08.2007 12:50 PM PDT
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Posted by: l1l JuLieT
39 is significantly higher than 30 therefore the skill level of legitimate players at level 39 will be significantly higher.
thats why.
you cant win kid.
you have the debating skills of a 10 year old boy who wants monny to buy the green sweets instead of the sugar free ones.
quit trying to outwit me.
why dont you go pick apart the whole bungie forum, and tell them how good the rank reset will be?
oh yeah, thats why, because you have no reasoning. all your posts are short and lack backup.
its an OPINION. do they not teach you about opinions in pre-school?
x


And you're logical because you pres enter every 5 words? Nice.


I
Are

Just


As smart

As you

too

OK and since you missed it, I'll say it for you, it's an opinion. Wanna know the real thing? I DO think 39s suck. I was a 42 and was deleveling and hit 43. What a joke. I went from level 1 to 36 in 11 hours and 55 minutes not even going for boxes. So three levels more to me is -blam!-. I have 4 playlists hitting 37 now and know that 39 is nothing. Why is it that your opinion is better than mine? Because you loose half your games?


You aren't outwitting anyone, all you do is say opinions and think you're correct. Well guess what? You aren't always right, fool. And even so, tell me why all pros aren't 39 and above? OH because they don't care about ranks? Right. So why can't level 30s be good if they don't care about ranks? Apparently everyone is supposed to try so we can all prove to you we are good.

And so what if 39 is significantly higher than 30? 30 is significantly higher than 21. So 30 is a good rank.

You don't post up an argument, you spew garbage. You don't even adress all my points, you say one thing related and stray off with some petty insults. I'd love to see how you wuold do in debate. Getting owned by mute kids, I bet.

[Edited on 04.08.2007 1:01 PM PDT]

  • 04.08.2007 12:57 PM PDT
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all i can say is.
why wouldnt i press enter. it makes sense, it spaces out my points so dumb kids like you can read and throw back petty insults.
i havent insulted your inteligence in any way. ive just voiced my opinion about your veiws.
or am i mistaken, is an opinion banned wherever the Flulclk your from?
get real.
you know full well the whole xbox live population thinks 20's are bad.
and pro's dont play xbl. they play tourneys. and train offline as there is no lag.
get your facts straight before you start slhlilt you cant finish.
x

[Edited on 04.08.2007 1:01 PM PDT]

  • 04.08.2007 1:01 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Deceiver is somewhat correct - ranks don't exactly equal skill. While it's likely that someone who is a level 39 is good, it's possible that they aren't.
Plus, someone who is a level 30 isn't necessarily bad - it just could mean that they don't play as much, or as seriously.

Juliet, you kind of downed yourself by talking about opinions. Sorry, but if you really felt that it's just an opinion, you wouldn't be so adamant about arguing about him.

Also, I hate when people say "you can't argue, you're so bad at it," or "you can't win with that reply," or anything like that. Because again, it contradicts with the fact that everyone is entitled to their opinion.

  • 04.08.2007 1:03 PM PDT

etc etc/glaringly obvious/and so on, and such <=Not redundant!
Posted by: Cr4ne Style
Taxes do nothing to affect the share of wealth, since taxes are only applied to income.

So that's not even a part of the conversation at all, so it's pointless talking about it....

"for a "best" moral to exist, there must exist the "best" moral base. If the base of morality varies from location to location, culture to culture...then there can't be an absolute moral..

Posted by: Karganeth
1) It seems that Bungie has succesfully come blundering along and is about the make MM even less functinoal than it already is.

1a)I have been trying to level up in Rumble Training so that I could be matched up in skill. This obviously takes a long time because of the foolish way the MM system works (the MM system they designed) - starting players out at level 1.

2) But it seems that the process of leveling up is completely disregarded by Bungie and that the accuracy of levels only means "accuracy after they have settled after a few months".

3) By not resetting the ranks and changing the banhammer, cheaters' inaccurate levels would eventually be phased out - without the need for all levels to be made meaningless for at least a month. The phasing out of cheaters levels and their effects on the ranking system would be gradual.

4) ...The fact that the levels are spread out does not mean that it is appropriate to reset ranks. To me, resetting ranks to solve that problem would be absurd. Instead, it would be appropriate to increase the maximum match in the playlists which are having trouble. I cannot understand how you could not reach this conclusion. It is frustrating to know that Bungie cannot understand what an appropriate solution is.

5) So? What does it matter? All levels will be affected by cheating, even after the update. The fact is that MM will still match me up according to an appropriate challege - regardless of if my level was due to cheating or not. And I thought that "Bungie has consistently (and I mean VERY consistently) stated that the only purpose of the ranks was to aid in gathering matches of players of similar skill" - so why do my thoughts about my rank come into the decision at all?

6) Removing cheateters does increase the effect skill has on your level - but this does not mean that resetting all ranks is at all necessary. How would resetting ranks increase the effect skill has on my ultimate rank, at all - that is, other than increasing the amount of time it takes to reach that appropriate rank?


yes! i thought that the rank reset would get a few people all riled up, and i thought that they would come along and make a bunch of foolish charges against bungie and claim that bungie has made a number of terrible mistaken. but, per usual, such charges are unwarranted, and per usual, bungie has made a change that is not dumb or stupid.

1) no, this is all wrong. for starters, there is nothing wrong with how mm operated, and there is nothing wrong with the ranking system, by resetting ranks and decreasing the number of cheaters, the net effect will be that our ranks will be more indicative of our actual level of skill (once we have played sufficiently many games to level up to our natural ranks). so, your charge against them is hogwash.

1a) this was too funny to ignore. let me get this straight: you are upset with bungie because of how long it takes you to level up in RUMBLE TRAINING? do you know how the invisible rank system works in training playlists? if you do, then you should realize that loads and loads of the people you play against will have no ranks or low ranks (friends, guests, etc.), so of course it will take a long time for you to level up in an unranked training playlist. but, if you want to play balanced and competitive games, then YOU can end your problem and play rumble pit.

2) huh? i honestly do not get this, of course ranks will have meaning, but this can only happen after players have played enough games to reach their natural ranks, and of course this will take some time (maybe a couple of months). how exactly does this amount to bungie completely disregarding the leveling up process?

3) no, this is all wrong, and achronos has already explained why. just getting rid of cheaters will not help make mm run more smoothly because the mm population will still be artificially widely dispersed. by resetting ranks and getting rid of cheaters, when people level out, the spread of players will be smaller, so the same number of players will be matched more efficiently by mm. this should be apparent to anyone with running knowledge of statistics and logistics.

4) no, this is all wrong AND it would not work. i will not go into all of the details, but merely increasing the rank ranges within a playlist will decrease competitive balance, which clearly harm's gameplay. this would be bad for mm in the short run and in the long run, and this is why this is a rotten idea.
your confusion and frustration are both misguided. but, as long as you fail to recognize the actual statistical and logistical consequences of bugie's mm decisions, you will probably think that all of their decisions are bad (when they are not) and that all of your suggestions are better (when they are not).

5) huh? again, i do not get what you are upset about. resetting the ranks and eliminating cheaters will make one's rank more indicative of their natural ability, so this will help mm run more smoothly (match players of comensurate skill). how is this a problem?

6) again, this will be clear to anyone who understands statistics. by removing cheaters AND resetting ranks, your rank will be influenced less by artificial factors. since your rank will be determined more by your performance in honest games, your rank will be more closely tied to your actual skill level. simply removing cheaters cannot produce this result, and this is why resetting ranks AND eliminating cheaters will make ranks more accurate measures of one's skill, and this is why doing both will make mm run more effectively.

  • 04.08.2007 1:03 PM PDT
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Posted by: l1l JuLieT
why wouldnt i press enter. it makes sense, it spaces out my points so dumb kids like you can read and throw back petty insults.

Your points aren't even logically written. You barely even have any points to begin with. And how come once again you stray from my points? You fail to acknowledge any of the opposing argument, You're weak.

Petty insults? All you do is curse and try to act tough. You haven't done anything but that.



Posted by: l1l JuLieT
you know full well the whole xbox live population thinks 20's are bad.

And no. Not everybody thinks 20s are bad. Only you and your pro friends who play 9 hours of team slayer to go up one bar do.



Posted by: l1l JuLieT
and pro's dont play xbl. they play tourneys. and train offline as there is no lag.
get your facts straight before you start slhlilt you cant finish.
x


Really buddy, huh? So all the pros live in the same city and play LAN all day? RIGHT! The pros always have access to offline play against other pros. Yeah totally. You know what you're talking about. Yup. They don't have live accounts they never play on it. Yeah.

[Edited on 04.08.2007 1:07 PM PDT]

  • 04.08.2007 1:05 PM PDT
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people will still be able to continuisly go into mm w/ cheaters and when their cheaters get banned then they make new accounts and people can still purposly get matched up against their friends and de-level, so the leaderboards are a bad idea. i dont like this resetting because its still gonna take a long time to get matches at high levels. i know i've waited more then 2 hours 4 a team slayer game at lvl 40 and i dont wanna do it again.

[Edited on 04.08.2007 1:09 PM PDT]

  • 04.08.2007 1:08 PM PDT