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  • Subject: Rank reset.
Subject: Rank reset.
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Really buddy, huh? So all the pros live in the same city and play LAN all day? RIGHT! The pros always have access to offline play against other pros. Yeah totally. You know what you're talking about. Yup. They don't have live accounts they never play on it. Yeah.


you do realise LAN can be played in more than one city?
and a tourney is a tournament. a tournament is when a group of pros go and play against another group of pros.
people can leave states kid.
x

[Edited on 04.08.2007 1:11 PM PDT]

  • 04.08.2007 1:10 PM PDT
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Lol Deceiver, I find it somewhat amusing how the person who you deranked from 43 to 37 with, happened to be on my friends list atthe time. And I’m pretty sure you met him randomly going into slayer like I did. Small world.

  • 04.08.2007 1:11 PM PDT
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Posted by: l1l JuLieT
you do realise LAN can be played im more than one city?
You still don't understand things wow.

Sure LAN can be played anywhere in the world, but pros LIVE everywhere in the world. You can't LAN from Los Angeles to New York. Won't work that way. I know you follow the MLG crowd and you can give me how many times they've lost and how many birthmarks they've had. so tell me, how many of them live close to each other, have enough time to play with each other AND have schedules that meet up? Most pros have real lives and go to college and such. They barely ever LAN.

And tournaments? You think they do to the toys R us tourneys like you? They don't have time for all the tourneys there are, and there aren't too many of the bigger ones.


Nice job on making more insults and also not answering anything. You just keep making yourself seem worse and worse. But it's ok. You're not alone.

  • 04.08.2007 1:15 PM PDT
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Posted by: l1l JuLieT
all i can say is.
why wouldnt i press enter. it makes sense, it spaces out my points so dumb kids like you can read and throw back petty insults.
i havent insulted your inteligence in any way. ive just voiced my opinion about your veiws.
or am i mistaken, is an opinion banned wherever the Flulclk your from?
get real.
you know full well the whole xbox live population thinks 20's are bad.
and pro's dont play xbl. they play tourneys. and train offline as there is no lag.
get your facts straight before you start slhlilt you cant finish.
x


This is the biggest load of -blam!- ive read today !
its funny how you mention that by pressing enter you make sense. Really, where ??
not everybody thinks 20's are bad buddy ! just you and the people on your friends list do probably.
Pro's train offline ?......hahaha wow, please explain that one to me

  • 04.08.2007 1:18 PM PDT
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Juliet blue hates me, but even he agrees.

McLawls.


[Edited on 04.08.2007 1:26 PM PDT]

  • 04.08.2007 1:26 PM PDT
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Watch this, now.
Halo 1>Halo 2>Halo: Reach>Halo 3

Posted by: IIDWells55XII
This is BS. Now I have to put up with derankers, standbyers, and bridgers again.

I don't care what you guys say about the banhammer - it's not going to be foolproof and I'm still going to spend forever trying to get a freaking match. There's always going to be delevelers and such and this whole thing just blows. I'd normally type up a smart and well backed post, but I'm just angry now.


Quoted for truth. This is complete crap and just another key example of Bungie disregarding the opinions of experienced Halo 2 players.

  • 04.08.2007 1:27 PM PDT
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Posted by: Deceiver196_
Juliet blue hates me, but he even agrees.

McLawls.


I don't hate anybody, deceiver ! I don't agree with some of the things you say, but then again if we all agreed, there would be no reason for the forums...right ?

  • 04.08.2007 1:31 PM PDT

RIP Halo 2.

Wow, Juliet forgot the #2 rule of New Mombasa:
-Don't argue with Deceiver.

  • 04.08.2007 2:20 PM PDT
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Is there any possible way for a revision?
Like increasing the banhammer, adding playlists/removing some, and keep the rankings the same.
I amm sure that many people will be content with this.

  • 04.08.2007 11:03 PM PDT
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I didnt have time to read all of this, but my question is probably answered already. With the Banhammer does it ban past cheaters who didnt get caught, present cheaters, or future cheaters, or all three?

  • 04.09.2007 1:13 AM PDT
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Posted by: sesquipadelian
Posted by: Karganeth
1) It seems that Bungie has succesfully come blundering along and is about the make MM even less functinoal than it already is.

1a)I have been trying to level up in Rumble Training so that I could be matched up in skill. This obviously takes a long time because of the foolish way the MM system works (the MM system they designed) - starting players out at level 1.

2) But it seems that the process of leveling up is completely disregarded by Bungie and that the accuracy of levels only means "accuracy after they have settled after a few months".

3) By not resetting the ranks and changing the banhammer, cheaters' inaccurate levels would eventually be phased out - without the need for all levels to be made meaningless for at least a month. The phasing out of cheaters levels and their effects on the ranking system would be gradual.

4) ...The fact that the levels are spread out does not mean that it is appropriate to reset ranks. To me, resetting ranks to solve that problem would be absurd. Instead, it would be appropriate to increase the maximum match in the playlists which are having trouble. I cannot understand how you could not reach this conclusion. It is frustrating to know that Bungie cannot understand what an appropriate solution is.

5) So? What does it matter? All levels will be affected by cheating, even after the update. The fact is that MM will still match me up according to an appropriate challege - regardless of if my level was due to cheating or not. And I thought that "Bungie has consistently (and I mean VERY consistently) stated that the only purpose of the ranks was to aid in gathering matches of players of similar skill" - so why do my thoughts about my rank come into the decision at all?

6) Removing cheateters does increase the effect skill has on your level - but this does not mean that resetting all ranks is at all necessary. How would resetting ranks increase the effect skill has on my ultimate rank, at all - that is, other than increasing the amount of time it takes to reach that appropriate rank?


yes! i thought that the rank reset would get a few people all riled up, and i thought that they would come along and make a bunch of foolish charges against bungie and claim that bungie has made a number of terrible mistaken. but, per usual, such charges are unwarranted, and per usual, bungie has made a change that is not dumb or stupid.

1) no, this is all wrong. for starters, there is nothing wrong with how mm operated, and there is nothing wrong with the ranking system,

If there is nothing wrong with the ranking system, why does it take me well over a hundred games before I begin to be matched up in skill level in any one playlist?

by resetting ranks and decreasing the number of cheaters, the net effect will be that our ranks will be more indicative of our actual level of skill (once we have played sufficiently many games to level up to our natural ranks). so, your charge against them is hogwash.

1a) this was too funny to ignore. let me get this straight: you are upset with bungie because of how long it takes you to level up in RUMBLE TRAINING? do you know how the invisible rank system works in training playlists? if you do, then you should realize that loads and loads of the people you play against will have no ranks or low ranks (friends, guests, etc.), so of course it will take a long time for you to level up in an unranked training playlist.
The ranking system in "unranked" playlists works just as the other ranked playlists do, with the only difference being the visibility of your level. And yes, it would take me a long time to level up in an unranked playlist, which is why I am angry that the levels are being reset.

but, if you want to play balanced and competitive games, then YOU can end your problem and play rumble pit.
It's funny, because you virtually accept that the MM ranking system is broken in that statement. Telling me that I need to change the playlist I play to make up for MMs inability to match me up in skill is admitting that the ranking system is broken.

2) huh? i honestly do not get this, of course ranks will have meaning, but this can only happen after players have played enough games to reach their natural ranks, and of course this will take some time (maybe a couple of months). how exactly does this amount to bungie completely disregarding the leveling up process?
Because it seems that they disregard the fact that it will take months for us to get back to our appropriate levels - they wouldn't have made this decision otherwise.

3) no, this is all wrong, and achronos has already explained why. just getting rid of cheaters will not help make mm run more smoothly because the mm population will still be artificially widely dispersed. by resetting ranks and getting rid of cheaters, when people level out, the spread of players will be smaller, so the same number of players will be matched more efficiently by mm. this should be apparent to anyone with running knowledge of statistics and logistics.
Which is why it would be more appropriate to increase the maximum match than to reset all levels, as I will explain in more detail in my next paragraph.

4) no, this is all wrong AND it would not work. i will not go into all of the details, but merely increasing the rank ranges within a playlist will decrease competitive balance, which clearly harm's gameplay. this would be bad for mm in the short run and in the long run, and this is why this is a rotten idea.
your confusion and frustration are both misguided. but, as long as you fail to recognize the actual statistical and logistical consequences of bugie's mm decisions, you will probably think that all of their decisions are bad (when they are not) and that all of your suggestions are better (when they are not).

You are incredibly incorrect. They have exactly the same effect with the only difference is that one of them doesn't require all levels to be reset. As an analogy, I will explain. There are 10 people, each starting at at a minimum of 1km away from everyone else, but their communication devices only reach 0.9km, so it will takes a lot of wandering around before they can hear each other. Now, reducing the spread of those people so that they are 0.6km away from everyone at the start would be exactly the same as increasing their communication range to 1.5km (or whatever the appropriate increase is). The two effects could be made exactly the same, but one doesn't need the entire levels to be reset.

6) by removing cheaters AND resetting ranks, your rank will be influenced less by artificial factors. since your rank will be determined more by your performance in honest games, your rank will be more closely tied to your actual skill level. simply removing cheaters cannot produce this result, and this is why resetting ranks AND eliminating cheaters will make ranks more accurate measures of one's skill, and this is why doing both will make mm run more effectively.
Why wouldn't removing cheaters produce this result? Because it just "cannot produce this result"?

  • 04.09.2007 3:04 AM PDT

etc etc/glaringly obvious/and so on, and such <=Not redundant!
Posted by: Cr4ne Style
Taxes do nothing to affect the share of wealth, since taxes are only applied to income.

So that's not even a part of the conversation at all, so it's pointless talking about it....

"for a "best" moral to exist, there must exist the "best" moral base. If the base of morality varies from location to location, culture to culture...then there can't be an absolute moral..

Posted by: Karganeth
1) If there is nothing wrong with the ranking system, why does it take me well over a hundred games before I begin to be matched up in skill level in any one playlist?

2) The ranking system in "unranked" playlists works just as the other ranked playlists do, with the only difference being the visibility of your level. And yes, it would take me a long time to level up in an unranked playlist, which is why I am angry that the levels are being reset.

3) It's funny, because you virtually accept that the MM ranking system is broken in that statement. Telling me that I need to change the playlist I play to make up for MMs inability to match me up in skill is admitting that the ranking system is broken.

4) Because it seems that they disregard the fact that it will take months for us to get back to our appropriate levels - they wouldn't have made this decision otherwise.

5) Which is why it would be more appropriate to increase the maximum match than to reset all levels, as I will explain in more detail in my next paragraph.
You are incredibly incorrect. They have exactly the same effect with the only difference is that one of them doesn't require all levels to be reset. As an analogy, I will explain. There are 10 people, each starting at at a minimum of 1km away from everyone else, but their communication devices only reach 0.9km, so it will takes a lot of wandering around before they can hear each other. Now, reducing the spread of those people so that they are 0.6km away from everyone at the start would be exactly the same as increasing their communication range to 1.5km (or whatever the appropriate increase is). The two effects could be made exactly the same, but one doesn't need the entire levels to be reset.

6) Why wouldn't removing cheaters produce this result? Because it just "cannot produce this result"?


you are simply amazing. for over a year you have made posts complaining about various decisions made by bungie, and they are boild down to statistical analysis and logistics. various bungie employees provide ample information explaining the statistical and logistical facts that influence their decisions, and they even explain the statistical nd logistical consequences that unfold. then what happens? you come along and mistakenly think that all of it is bunk, and you come up with a laundry list of complaints. but, if you had the requisite background in either statistics or logistics, then NONE of your worries would occur to you. and, per usual, i come along and explain these issues in a clear and simple fashion, but you still do not get it.

when will you learn that the folks at bungie have a better understanding of statistics and logistics than you do? here is a quick stab at ending your confusion on these issues:

1) do you know what the ranks are designed to do? if you do, then do you know how they operate? one's skill at halo is qualitative in nature, and ranks are supposed to provide a numeric value to the quality of our play. since the folks at bungie are not psychic, they cannot magically determine our skill level, they must first acquire data, and this comes in the form of gameplay. that is why the rank system takes time to place players at their natural ranks: they must accumulate enough data to make a reasonable gauge of a player's skill, and this can only be done by acquiring game date which tracks a player's performance.

the halo rank system is a standard elo rank system, but you do not even have to understand this to see how your confusion hinges upon your ignorance of how ranks work. you can consider just about any sport, and you can even consider an IQ test or the SAT. is do not know if you have taken an IQ test or the SAT, but think about any standardized test. please consider how many questions they asked?

does an IQ test or a SAT test ask but one question and then determine accurately what your intelligence or aptitude based on the answer to only one question? no, of course not, because only one question would not provide enough information for them to determine the traits in question. they have to ask a battery of questions, and by looking at which answers you got right, which answers you got wrong, and how your score compared with scores of others, they can determine where you place in the test taking population (you know, that percentile stuff that you see when you take standardized tests).

not only does it take sufficient data to assign rank in halo and in standardized tests, but it happens all around you. you may have noticed that class rank in high school is not determined after only one semester, but it takes 4 whole years to come up with a numerical representation of your rank in your class. and the world of sports is chick full of examples. in golf they just played the master's tournament, and you know what? it took time! they did not narrow the field and determine the winner after 1 hole, it took 72 wholes played over 4 days to determine everyone's rank. the baseball season just started and you may have noticed that they have not played a world series yet. do you know why? they make the teams play 162 games to determine which ones are the best and able to go to the playoffs.

to make a long story short, if you understood the purpose of ranks then you would recognize that they require sufficient data to be meanigful, and this data comes in the form of games played, which means that many games must be played to assign a rank that accurately measures your skill.

2) no, this is wrong and it is ignorant in ways that i have spelled out in my last post. the ranking system does perform the same way, but it takes longer in unranked playlists because you play many players with no rank or with low ranks (guests, friends, etc.), which means that it takes longer to move up in rank. if you look over the statistics page provided by bungie you should be able to figure this out. but, just to be safe, i will give you an example:

which of these two games will help you rank up more in ffa:
your rank before the game: 25
game 1: you beat 7 players with an average rank of 25.
game 2: you beat 7 players with an average rank of 9.

will you earn more experience points in game 1 or game 2? the obvious answer is game 1. game 1 is similar to ranked rp, and game 2 is similar to unranked rumble training. you earn more points by beating players of higher ranks, and ranked playlists only have players with similar ranks, but unranked playlists have players of similar ranks and of much lower ranks.

if you understood statistics at all, or even how the halo rank system works, you would see that training playlists, because they allow friends and guests, are necessarily going to take longer to rank up in than ranked playlists (which have tight restrictions on arranging matches, and do not allow friends and guests).

3) no, you are still wrong. the rank systems work fine and they work the same way in each playlist, but unranked playlists require more games (data) since so many of the matches are against players of low ranks. unranked rumble training simply takes longer than ranked rumble pit since you earn more experience points playing similarly skilled players than people with low ranks.

4) are you starting to see a pattern emerge? ALL of your confusion and frustration stem from ignorance of the same issues. it takes time for ranks to work themselves out since it takes time to collect sufficient data. this is simply par for the course if you are talking about ranks being determined by your performance.

5) your example is disanalogous. i will not bother to go into all of the reasons why (since it is clearly bogus to competent readers and because i have little faith that it will matter to you), but i will make one point: in your example everyone has the same ability to communicate, so it is as if they all have the same rank. in your example everyone can talk with everyone, but in mm playlists, it is not the case that all of the people can play with each other.

if you reread the posts by myself and achronos you should be able to see how getting rid of cheaters AND resetting the ranks redisburses the player population over a smaller rank range AND gives a better rank that more accurately measures skill. these are distinct effects that could not have only been realized by getting rid of cheaters. only getting rid of cheaters would not redistribute the entire mm population as quickly as resetting ranks.

6) for the reason that i just hinted at. getting rid of cheaters would still leave mm players all over the place from 1 - 50. by resetting ranks AND getting rid of cheaters, we will all start at 1 and move up at the same time. people will stop moving up along the way as they meet their natural rank, and when they dom they will find that countless others have done so in little time. vy getting rid of cheaters, you get rid of two things that influence ranks in both directions: you get rid of artificially high ranks (which is like bringing ranks down). and you get rid of artificially low ranks (which is like bringing ranks up).

karganeth, PLEASE learn about statistics and logistics before you make compaints about bungie, or at least do yourself a favor and learn about them before you raise such foolish objections to my posts. as i have told you many times before, if you have any doubts about my claims, then show someone with a background in statistics and logistics both of our posts and listen to what they have to say.

or, you could try something crazy and just think about what the folks at bungie and i have told you about logistics and statistics and not post your knee jerk reactions all the time.

  • 04.09.2007 6:00 AM PDT
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Posted by: sesquipadelian
Posted by: Karganeth
1) If there is nothing wrong with the ranking system, why does it take me well over a hundred games before I begin to be matched up in skill level in any one playlist?

2) The ranking system in "unranked" playlists works just as the other ranked playlists do, with the only difference being the visibility of your level. And yes, it would take me a long time to level up in an unranked playlist, which is why I am angry that the levels are being reset.

3) It's funny, because you virtually accept that the MM ranking system is broken in that statement. Telling me that I need to change the playlist I play to make up for MMs inability to match me up in skill is admitting that the ranking system is broken.

4) Because it seems that they disregard the fact that it will take months for us to get back to our appropriate levels - they wouldn't have made this decision otherwise.

5) Which is why it would be more appropriate to increase the maximum match than to reset all levels, as I will explain in more detail in my next paragraph.
They have exactly the same effect with the only difference is that one of them doesn't require all levels to be reset. As an analogy, I will explain. There are 10 people, each starting at at a minimum of 1km away from everyone else, but their communication devices only reach 0.9km, so it will takes a lot of wandering around before they can hear each other....

6) Why wouldn't removing cheaters produce this result? Because it just "cannot produce this result"?

1) do you know what the ranks are designed to do? if you do, then do you know how they operate? one's skill at halo is qualitative in nature, and ranks are supposed to provide a numeric value to the quality of our play. since the folks at bungie are not psychic, they cannot magically determine our skill level, they must first acquire data, and this comes in the form of gameplay. that is why the rank system takes time to place players at their natural ranks: they must accumulate enough data to make a reasonable gauge of a player's skill, and this can only be done by acquiring game date which tracks a player's performance.

the halo rank system is a standard elo rank system, but you do not even have to understand this to see how your confusion hinges upon your ignorance of how ranks work. you can consider just about any sport, and you can even consider an IQ test or the SAT. is do not know if you have taken an IQ test or the SAT, but think about any standardized test. please consider how many questions they asked?

does an IQ test or a SAT test ask but one question and then determine …

not only does it take sufficient data to assign rank in halo and in standardized tests, but it happens all around you. you may have noticed that class rank in high school is not determined after only one semester…


to make a long story short, if you understood the purpose of ranks then you would recognize that they require sufficient data to be meanigful, and this data comes in the form of games played, which means that many games must be played to assign a rank that accurately measures your skill.

It still is not acceptable for me to have to play around 500 games to get an accurate level in all the playlists, regardless of how it might work. The Halo 2 MM system is atrocious - and resetting the levels only means I will have to level all over again.

2) no, this is wrong and it is ignorant in ways that i have spelled out in my last post. the ranking system does perform the same way, but it takes longer in unranked playlists because you play many players with no rank or with low ranks (guests, friends, etc.), which means that it takes longer to move up in rank. if you look over the statistics page provided by bungie you should be able to figure this out. but, just to be safe, i will give you an example:

which of these two games will help you rank up more in ffa:
your rank before the game: 25
game 1: you beat 7 players with an average rank of 25.
game 2: you beat 7 players with an average rank of 9.

will you earn more experience points in game 1 or game 2? the obvious answer is game 1. game 1 is similar to ranked rp, and game 2 is similar to unranked rumble training. you earn more points by beating players of higher ranks, and ranked playlists only have players with similar ranks, but unranked playlists have players of similar ranks and of much lower ranks.

Why do you believe that players in unranked lists generally have a lower level (as shown in your poor example)? Games in unranked lists are over faster due to quitters and so on, ranks would be gained faster and hence higher. The effort of players is completely irrelevant when trying to determine the levels.

unranked rumble training simply takes longer than ranked rumble pit since you earn more experience points playing similarly skilled players than people with low ranks.
If you were unaware, you need more experience points to level up when you are higher in level.

4) are you starting to see a pattern emerge? ALL of your confusion and frustration stem from ignorance of the same issues. it takes time for ranks to work themselves out since it takes time to collect sufficient data. this is simply par for the course if you are talking about ranks being determined by your performance.
I do realize that no ranking system is instantaneous, all would need data before determining an appropriate ranking. However, the MM ranking system is incredibly slow for many various reasons. I wouldn't be bothered by a rank reset if Halo 2 had an adequate ranking system.

5) your example is disanalogous. i will not bother to go into all of the reasons why (since it is clearly bogus to competent readers and because i have little faith that it will matter to you), but i will make one point: in your example everyone has the same ability to communicate, so it is as if they all have the same rank. in your example everyone can talk with everyone, but in mm playlists, it is not the case that all of the people can play with each other.
No, you have completely missed what the analogy represents. The communication is a representation of the MM matching up players matching up skill. The possible location of someone is a representation of their level. Imagine their location is on a large mountain. For them to communicate (be matched up with) a person at the top of the mountain (high level) it would take lots of effort and skill to climb the mountain and communication with those around them (being matched up with to travel up). Resetting the levels would be the equivalent of starting everyone at the bottom of the mountain again - incredibly annoying and unnecessary.

if you reread the posts by myself and achronos you should be able to see how getting rid of cheaters AND resetting the ranks redisburses the player population over a smaller rank range AND gives a better rank that more accurately measures skill. these are distinct effects that could not have only been realized by getting rid of cheaters. only getting rid of cheaters would not redistribute the entire mm population as quickly as resetting ranks.
That would be an innapropriate action. Cheaters levels are innacurate, just as peoples' levels who were good with PRs on midship were made inaccurate after they were removed from midship. Using the same logic, a ranks reset would be neccesary after each [playlist update due to some players having innacurate levels!

The levels will RESOLVE THEMSELVES. Just as a player gets better, he will move up in level or down. This will happen when cheaters are banned - players will move upwards. It will solve itself.

6) for the reason that i just hinted at. getting rid of cheaters would still leave mm players all over the place from 1 - 50. by resetting ranks AND getting rid of cheaters, we will all start at 1 and move up at the same time. people will stop moving up along the way as they meet their natural rank, and when they dom they will find that countless others have done so in little time. vy getting rid of cheaters, you get rid of two things that influence ranks in both directions: you get rid of artificially high ranks (which is like bringing ranks down). and you get rid of artificially low ranks (which is like bringing ranks up).
This could occur without the resetting of all levels. If cheaters would be removed, those who rightly deserved those top ranks would get them. If you claim that those who didn't play would be inaccurate, so would they be if they were left at level one!


[Edited on 04.09.2007 10:05 AM PDT]

  • 04.09.2007 7:29 AM PDT
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Karganeth sad hes losing his 28 :(

  • 04.09.2007 8:23 AM PDT
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Posted by: xCritical v2
Karganeth sad hes losing his 28 :(

I'm not sad that I'm losing my 28. But I am irritated that Bungie has made a decision which means that for months, all players will not come anywhere near being matched up in skill leading to dull games. Without the ranks reset, players would reach a more appropriate level as cheaters are banned, much faster than if everyone's level was set to 1. I do not see how Bungie can not see this.

  • 04.09.2007 8:38 AM PDT

I love it when the ranks reset. This is so much fun! That's what it's all about...FUN!

  • 04.09.2007 8:46 AM PDT
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Posted by: Karganeth
Posted by: xCritical v2
Karganeth sad hes losing his 28 :(

I'm not sad that I'm losing my 28. But I am irritated that Bungie has made a decision which means that for months, all players will not come anywhere near being matched up in skill leading to dull games. Without the ranks reset, players would reach a more appropriate level as cheaters are banned, much faster than if everyone's level was set to 1. I do not see how Bungie can not see this.


Like usual you are wrong, I believe that games will actually be completive now, since the announcement I have joined off boxes in slayer with at least a level 43 in my party and either have either completely destroyed level 40's or get cheated. With the rank reset and a stop to cheating true rank will be shown and games will be completive and fun again.

  • 04.09.2007 8:59 AM PDT

youtube name = 1fast300z
check out my halo armor!

The ranks being reset is a great thing. It shows that they still care about Halo 2 and its matchmaking. Also I am tired of sitting in the BTB Skirmish lobby waiting to find a game because the levels are to scattered.

  • 04.09.2007 9:24 AM PDT
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im realy disapointed to hear this because we all no that the banhammer works after the offence. so we all still get pissed off beacause we have to loose to cheaters. i hung up my ranked gloves when i got to level 40. having to start over is gonna suck cos it takes ages. i have 40,000 kills in halo2 and i dont want to see them go to waste.

you have annou8nced about 4 times about upgrades to the ban hammer but its not fool proof and i dont realy that its gonna be that effective.

  • 04.09.2007 9:48 AM PDT
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Posted by: xCritical v2
Posted by: Karganeth
Posted by: xCritical v2
Karganeth sad hes losing his 28 :(

I'm not sad that I'm losing my 28. But I am irritated that Bungie has made a decision which means that for months, all players will not come anywhere near being matched up in skill leading to dull games. Without the ranks reset, players would reach a more appropriate level as cheaters are banned, much faster than if everyone's level was set to 1. I do not see how Bungie can not see this.

Like usual you are wrong, I believe that games will actually be completive now, since the announcement I have joined off boxes in slayer with at least a level 43 in my party and either have either completely destroyed level 40's or get cheated. With the rank reset and a stop to cheating true rank will be shown and games will be completive and fun again.

Without cheaters, the rank would gradually adjust to the correct position. An entire reset of all ranks is unnecessary. Some ranks will be inaccurate, but this is true for every playlist update when the gametypes change - a gametype which a group of players were good at may have been removed, meaning that all their ranks are inaccurate of their real skil, just as cheaters ranks are inaccurate of their real skill. If you are for the ranks reset so that cheaters ranks are reset, then it would also follow that you were for a ranks reset in every playlist update.

Posted by: Toftt NlGHTMARE
Also I am tired of sitting in the BTB Skirmish lobby waiting to find a game because the levels are to scattered.

This could be fixed by increasing the maximum match between player levels. You could say that this would mean there were unfair games due to the skill difference in players, but this could occur to a far greater degree and is not controllable if everyone was set to level 1.

[Edited on 04.09.2007 10:07 AM PDT]

  • 04.09.2007 10:01 AM PDT
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This is very well thought out, because this will let people get a new start. Also it will make everyone INCLUDING cheaters go down to 1 and give them a chance to stop the cheating madness!!!! Thank You Bungie!

  • 04.09.2007 10:09 AM PDT

I'm happy about the reset, it's a fresh start. I was going to buy another account, to get a fresh start since my new account didn't make it over in the 360 upgrade and no one at M$ thinks it exists even though i can play on it on my old school xbox. But that's another story, Anyways, quit -blam!-ing, it doesn't take that long to get your rank up, recently i took a brand new account to a lvl 28 in around 4 hours find some good players to play with and before you know it you'll be happy with your rank again.

  • 04.09.2007 10:24 AM PDT
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Every Time bungie says banhammer is going to catch alot more cheaters and be upgraded i never see a diff,u still cant go into a ranked match past a 34 w/o getting modded or bridged,the rank reset is good in a way but for the legit people who spent hours getting a legit rank is just screwed.Now instead getting modded or bridged at a level 34 its going to happen at all levels more often because of the morons ranking back up from a 1.Also if u go into a ranked match without a full party and say u are a 28 your prolly gonna get 3 level 10's on ur team who are terrible and go 5-19.

  • 04.09.2007 10:48 AM PDT

etc etc/glaringly obvious/and so on, and such <=Not redundant!
Posted by: Cr4ne Style
Taxes do nothing to affect the share of wealth, since taxes are only applied to income.

So that's not even a part of the conversation at all, so it's pointless talking about it....

"for a "best" moral to exist, there must exist the "best" moral base. If the base of morality varies from location to location, culture to culture...then there can't be an absolute moral..

Posted by: Karganeth
1) It still is not acceptable for me to have to play around 500 games to get an accurate level in all the playlists, regardless of how it might work. The Halo 2 MM system is atrocious - and resetting the levels only means I will have to level all over again.

2) Why do you believe that players in unranked lists generally have a lower level (as shown in your poor example)? Games in unranked lists are over faster due to quitters and so on, ranks would be gained faster and hence higher. The effort of players is completely irrelevant when trying to determine the levels.

3) I do realize that no ranking system is instantaneous, all would need data before determining an appropriate ranking. However, the MM ranking system is incredibly slow for many various reasons. I wouldn't be bothered by a rank reset if Halo 2 had an adequate ranking system.

4) No, you have completely missed what the analogy represents.

5) That would be an innapropriate action. Cheaters levels are innacurate, just as peoples' levels who were good with PRs on midship were made inaccurate after they were removed from midship. Using the same logic, a ranks reset would be neccesary after each [playlist update due to some players having innacurate levels!

6) The levels will RESOLVE THEMSELVES. Just as a player gets better, he will move up in level or down. This will happen when cheaters are banned - players will move upwards. It will solve itself.

7) This could occur without the resetting of all levels. If cheaters would be removed, those who rightly deserved those top ranks would get them. If you claim that those who didn't play would be inaccurate, so would they be if they were left at level one!


karganeth, you have still literally got this all wrong. PLEASE talk with someone who understands logistics and statistics, or maybe pm some bungie employees specific questions about the causes of their decisions or the effects that they anticipate. all of your confusion and frustration could be eliminated if you only understood a few basic principles.

1) really? how exactly is a rank system atrocious if it changes your rank directly with your performance? how exactly is the system that measures your performance in each and every game with the strength of your opponents in mind so darn bad? how can they provide you with a more accurate rank than by assigning your rank based purely on your own performance?

if and when you can give us a better statistical measuring system, then people might start to take your claims seriously. because right now, your complaint is identical in structure to the following: "BOO HOO HOO! i don't wanna have to rebuild my rank by actually playing games!! wah wah!!!!"

any rank system requires data, and data is captured by looking at the results of matches, and this entails that games must be played in order to accurately determine a players rank.

2) why? because this is necessarily the case given the constraints that affect ranked and unranked playlists. ranked playlists have tighter restrictions, which means that more people in every match withh have earned commensurate ranks. this is not always the case because people play with friends, but in ranked playlists there are a minimum number of players with similar ranks.

this is not the case with unranked playlists, or playlists which use an invisible rank. unranked playlists allow friends and guests, and both of these groups of potential players can have lower ranks or no rank at all (so they are assigned the lowest possible rank of 1).

for example, you can go into rumble training with an invisible rank of 25, and if there are only 7 people waiting to have a match, you could be matched in the same game with 2 guys with ranks of 18, a 20, and 4 guests (all of whom have a rank of 1). this means that you will earn fewer experience points winning such a match, which means that more matches must be played to level up in an unranked playlist.

if you were to play rumble pit, which is ranked, such games would not be played, you can only play games against players withing a given range, and since this range is necesarily smaller than the range in unranked matches, it takes fewer games to level up in ranked playlists than in unranked playlists.

IF you could understand how ranks work and how experience points are earned, then you would realize that ranked playlists take less time to level up in than unranked playlists. please do yourself a favor and look over the statistics section of the bungie page and pm bungie employees so that they can clear this up for you.

3) no, it is not incredibly slow if you play ranked playlists since ranked playlists. if you play against players of similar rank, then it will not take long. but, if you choose to play unranked playlists, you should recognize that you are acting as to play more players of low rank, so you should recognize that you are choosing to make the ranking up process longer.

4) no i did not. your example does not work for a number of reasons, most notably that you do not know how the rank system works and that you do not show any understanding of standard statistical distributions of individuals within a given population.

5) no, this does not follow. they COULD reset ranks anytime they want to, but that does not mean that they should. right now there are countless accounts with ranks that have been artificially influenced by cheating, and this is the case across all playlists (your examples are playlist specific, and they do not involve ranks being affected by unfair play, so your example is disanalogous, again), and right now the enitire mm player population is artificially spread, making it more difficult for mm to operate smoothly.

by changing ranks now (with the new anti cheater technology, with the addition of new maps sure to be given heavy weights, and with the declining player population), the rank system will be able to work more accurately AND mm will be able to arrange maps more smoothly, so there are 2 important benefits to resetting ranks at this time. since neither of these benefits would be had in your cute little example, this is another reason why your example fails.

6) not necessarily. just removing cheaters will help make ranks more accurate, but it will not redistribute the entire mm player population the way that removing cheaters AND resetting ranks will. the change made by bungie is a powerful one-two punch, and just doing one bu not the other will not produce the intended results.

7) this is misguided for what i have just told you. doing one thing but not the other will not produce the same results.

from your persistent objections to so many changes to mm, it seems clear that you are unwilling or unable to speak with someone with a background in logistics and statistics, and it is also clear that you are unwilling or unable to follow any of my examples. since that is the case, could you at least pm someone at bungie and have them look over your posts and mine and then tell you (either by posting or in a pm to you) what to make of each of our claims?

so, to karganeth and to everyone else who thinks that resetting ranks is a terrible mistake, please get your statistical and logistical facts straight before you make such charges.

  • 04.09.2007 1:32 PM PDT

RIP Halo 2.

Posted by: xCritical v2
With the rank reset and a stop to cheating true rank will be shown and games will be completive and fun again.

Oh, so innocently naive.

;P

  • 04.09.2007 1:35 PM PDT