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  • Subject: How / Why content is released for Halo
Subject: How / Why content is released for Halo

they are hard to make? I don't know, but it takes time and money, to make them I am thinking. :)

  • 04.13.2007 10:19 AM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

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Maps, well, good quality maps, take effort and skill to create. They take time, staff, and energy. Notice, the two new maps were made by Certain Affinity, not Bungie. And even then, Certain Affinity may be working on something now, so they don't want to sit there making more Halo 2 maps and not get any of their project done.

Basically, map-makers can only work on a few maps at a time..
Do you want more Halo 2 maps, or more Halo 3 maps? That's the real decision here.

  • 04.13.2007 10:40 AM PDT

I work here: Sound Devices, LLC. We make bad-ass field audio gear, and you think that's awesome. My messy desk (With work-related items on the computer screen).

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But wouldn't that effort be worth it if selling the content was profitable? I don't think Bungie would be a good candidate to produce more maps, either. For the same reason you implied: they're busy doing cooler stuff; But also because the connection to the map making process is what the "fans" use as a basis for accusing Bungie of "ripping them off" by charging for it (Even though, these maps were in fact made by a different company, but many little fans out there failed to understand/notice that). If the content was produced by a 3rd party with no connection to Bungie (Beyond the fact that they are developing content for a Bungie game), then people wouldn't be able to complain about having to buy them.

the main reason other FPS games have so many maps available is because they opened up the process to producing content for their game to 3rd parties: Whether that be the public or other companies who are interested. Obviously there is no way for the public to add content since this a closed source program on a gaming console made by the antithesis of open source (i.e. Microsoft). But it seems like one of XBL's big goals is to provide a system where developers can provide and sell new content; So, in that sense, 3rd party companies producing maps for Halo games makes sense to me.


[Edited on 04.13.2007 11:00 AM PDT]

  • 04.13.2007 10:59 AM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

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Analog, you must understand, Bungie is currently working on Halo 3. I'm not sure if you knew this or not.

To create a map, from start to finish, from the concept, to the mesh, to the textures, to the actual population of weapons, objects, spawns, sounds, and other various environmental effects, can take well over 2 months. That may even be an understatement. That's well over 2 months that Bungie's mappers have to spend not building Halo 3 maps.

This causes at least 2 or 3 problems:
A) Bungie will have insufficient time to playtest all their maps for Halo 3, along with new Halo 2 maps.
B) Bungie's mappers will not get as many maps done for Halo 3.
C) Halo 3 will be post-poned if they need to add more maps to Multiplayer that they weren't able to finish implementing because of Halo 2 maps.

I'd rather have Halo 3 be the best it can be, instead of having Halo 2 be improved while it spins to it's end. It was, and still is, an amazing game, but Halo 3 is coming up, and Halo 2 is getting replaced. Bungie has already mentioned with the 360 they may implement loads more downloadable content, so you can expect to see many more maps for Halo 3. :D

[Edited on 04.13.2007 11:09 AM PDT]

  • 04.13.2007 11:06 AM PDT
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plus, they only do it for Halo 2 because they had time after a while, and they had Live. so they never needed to make it a physical product onto a disk or CD or whatever and ship it wordwide like a new game. all they had to do for Halo 2 was post the maps on Live, which, though it couldn't be easy, was EASIER than shipping CDs with new maps for Halo everywhere.

  • 04.13.2007 11:34 AM PDT

I work here: Sound Devices, LLC. We make bad-ass field audio gear, and you think that's awesome. My messy desk (With work-related items on the computer screen).

One does not simply grenade jump into Mordor...

Posted by: SS_Zag1
Analog, you must understand, Bungie is currently working on Halo 3. I'm not sure if you knew this or not.

You missed my point:

Posted by: AnalogWeapon
I don't think Bungie would be a good candidate to produce more maps, either. For the same reason you implied: they're busy doing cooler stuff;

I agree that Bungie shouldn't worry about making new maps. I'm pondering whether opening up the map making market to 3rd party companies would A) Be profitable to Bungie and those companies, and B) Make the game more fun for the fans. I'm suggesting this for all Halo games (1, 2, and 3). I'm not arguing that anyone should be doing it right now, as much as I'm musing about why they didn't do it in the past for H2 or if they will do it in the future for H3.

In other words: If you knew you could make maps for Halo (1, 2, or 3) and you knew there were tools available to do it, would you be interested? Then if you imagine yourself as a fledgling game development company, you can see what I'm getting at.

[Edited on 04.13.2007 11:41 AM PDT]

  • 04.13.2007 11:37 AM PDT
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okay, welll, i guess that's true. i dunno why they DIDN'T do it, they just didn't! as for the future, i guess we're all hoping for the best, right?

  • 04.13.2007 11:41 AM PDT
Subject: How / Why content is released for Halo

I work here: Sound Devices, LLC. We make bad-ass field audio gear, and you think that's awesome. My messy desk (With work-related items on the computer screen).

One does not simply grenade jump into Mordor...

I often wonder why more maps aren't released for the Halo games. Most other FPS games feature tons of maps and easy ways to get tons more. It definitely seems like a lot more work goes into a Halo map than a map for any other FPS game I've seen, so it might just be that the amount of investment required to produce a map just isn't worth the risk of not enough people purchasing the content. I don't know if it's Microsoft holding them back, or if Bungie has researched it and determined it wouldn't be profitable (Or something else). But in my naive understanding of the market, it seems like releasing new maps for Halo would be fairly profitable. I might be crazy, but I wouldn't bat an eye at paying $20~$30 for 3~4 new maps...

What do you folks think/know about this?

Edit:
Although I'm referring to all Halo games in general, this might be in the wrong forum. I apologize if it is. :)


[Edited on 04.13.2007 10:01 AM PDT]

  • 04.13.2007 10:00 AM PDT
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I bet we will see Bungie or 3rd parties being more prolific when it comes to map making for Halo 3. Bungie has been working on Halo 3 longer that we even know so they probably just didn't have the resources to devote to making new Halo 2 maps. Even if they did, they had to make a decision about which game will get those map designs - do they make Halo 3 badass from the get-go or do they support Halo 2 and lessen the number of Halo 3 maps? I imagine that is the question they had to ask themselves.

The deal with CA was perfect since Max Hoberman happened to be affiliated with Bungie. That probably helped lay the groundwork for future use of 3rd parties for multiplayer maps.

  • 04.13.2007 2:10 PM PDT

I work here: Sound Devices, LLC. We make bad-ass field audio gear, and you think that's awesome. My messy desk (With work-related items on the computer screen).

One does not simply grenade jump into Mordor...

Posted by: Soz
I bet we will see Bungie or 3rd parties being more prolific when it comes to map making for Halo 3. Bungie has been working on Halo 3 longer that we even know so they probably just didn't have the resources to devote to making new Halo 2 maps. Even if they did, they had to make a decision about which game will get those map designs - do they make Halo 3 badass from the get-go or do they support Halo 2 and lessen the number of Halo 3 maps? I imagine that is the question they had to ask themselves.

The deal with CA was perfect since Max Hoberman happened to be affiliated with Bungie. That probably helped lay the groundwork for future use of 3rd parties for multiplayer maps.

On the other hand, the same formula might apply to H3. What I mean is that after H3 is out the door, Bungie will probably already be working on their next title (Heck, they probably already have an idea of what it is). They probably won't want to use resources to develop content for an old game that would (probably) be better spent on a new title. That's why I think it's more feasible to go with a 3rd party.

But in the end, it's just like navilord said: We can just hope for the best.

  • 04.13.2007 2:15 PM PDT
Subject: Help Me
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When i load my halo 2 for xbox on xbox live and a join a game why does it say "failed to load map"? is that the game's falt or is it xbox live's fault. I even deleted all the maps and redownloaded them and it still did not work. If you can help it would be much appreciated. thanks

Jeff

p.s. sorry this has nothing to do about this post but i can't post my own until 24 hours so sorry

  • 04.13.2007 2:15 PM PDT
Subject: How / Why content is released for Halo
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Posted by: AnalogWeapon
But in the end, it's just like navilord said: We can just hope for the best.


Yup. That's what I'm doing. :D
They gathered a lot of feedback from the community about the Halo 2 online experience so we can only wait to see how they put it to use with Halo 3.

  • 04.13.2007 2:26 PM PDT
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Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

I actually agree with Analog here. I believe that Bungie should allow outside developers to make more maps. Perhaps they are planning on doing so with Halo 3 and the Halo 2 map release from Certain Affinity is sort of a "test run" to see if 3rd parties can stay true to Halo themes.... of course, it helps that a bunch of CA staff are ex-Bungie.

I think that the XBox 360 was indeed designed for this kind of thing, and hopefully we'll see more of it in a game like Halo 3 which is actually specifically made for the 360. Lots of maps FTW!

  • 04.13.2007 2:31 PM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

Visit us and check out our games at Sandswept.net!

~~Pardon Our Dust.~~

Posted by: AnalogWeapon
In other words: If you knew you could make maps for Halo (1, 2, or 3) and you knew there were tools available to do it, would you be interested? Then if you imagine yourself as a fledgling game development company, you can see what I'm getting at.


Do you mean more abilities to add user-created content, just as I'm planning on doing for Halo 2 Vista? I'm just saying most third parties wouldn't want to do this, just as Bungie wouldn't either.

If the actual members could import maps? I suppose, but that still leaves the problem with all these crummy maps filling up games, instead of playing the really nice one's Bungie has given us. (As you can imagine, loads of people would believe their map to be 'the best to play' and you'd have a hard time finding good games.

You know, I guess I have nothing against this, really.. :P We'll have to see what Bungie decides for Halo 3 content.

  • 04.13.2007 2:35 PM PDT

I work here: Sound Devices, LLC. We make bad-ass field audio gear, and you think that's awesome. My messy desk (With work-related items on the computer screen).

One does not simply grenade jump into Mordor...

Posted by: SS_Zag1
Do you mean more abilities to add user-created content, just as I'm planning on doing for Halo 2 Vista? I'm just saying most third parties wouldn't want to do this, just as Bungie wouldn't either.

If the actual members could import maps? I suppose, but that still leaves the problem with all these crummy maps filling up games, instead of playing the really nice one's Bungie has given us. (As you can imagine, loads of people would believe their map to be 'the best to play' and you'd have a hard time finding good games.

You know, I guess I have nothing against this, really.. :P We'll have to see what Bungie decides for Halo 3 content.

I was referring to game studios creating them (Like Aurora Studios maybe? hehe). I agree with you completely that letting users create maps would cheapen the the game and degrade online gameplay experience significantly. I think if it happened, any 3rd party content would definitely have to "Bungie approved". Otherwise they would loose to much control over the art (I consider the whole game a work of art) that they created. When I put it that way, I realize that that puts Bungie back into the loop and would probably too much of a burden for them.

  • 04.13.2007 4:20 PM PDT