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This topic has moved here: Subject: Suggestion: Stoping network manipulation & mods
  • Subject: Suggestion: Stoping network manipulation & mods
Subject: Suggestion: Stoping network manipulation & mods

Okay, lately I've run thought a bunch crap of stand-byer. In fact it's actually pointless because they will be reseting the level in no more than a month. ( actually they claim that their new ban hammer will do great ) though most cheater have stop because of the rank reset doesn't really want to think about it once they reset it...

Anyway, as far as i know, it's possible to maybe prevent the cheat by more then 80% using these two method, the ping & map file size.

Let me explain, as for the ping, I believe it's possible for bungie to make a patch that analysis the ping of every player every once and then, as they said before the game actually looks your history to see what game type and how big your connection can handle. The host is actually the person that can handle the best connection with everyone in the room. But what if he mess with it after ? At this point, if the patch (what i suggested earlier) notice that the player (host) is actually doing really bad, blue screen and gives host to someone that actually have the best ping around ( and of course prevent the previous player to get it back by stopping his own lag ). This will for sure own most of stand-byers.

Now the map size! How would the map size can prevent cheat ? Let me tell you, it's pretty easy. Bungie have for sure a direct connection with your xbox, once again a patch that looks for your map size every time you LOG on the xbox live via HALO 2. If someone actually have a moded map, the map doesn't have for sure the same file size. As we aren't even supposed to MODIFY any of those content distributed by bungie i think it's fair enough to block the player' access to the matchmaking till the map size match with what bungie distributed.

There might be some problem about file size though. As some patch can improve the maps but then again according that we doesn't see the "auto-update" each time we log in, it's possible for em to look at our Halo2 version. Anyway the modding seems to have stopped since the new ban hammer, but stand-byers are still alive ..... somehow which is kind sad.

Hope this help anything making a new ban-hammer system ^^


[edit] not shure if this belong to this forum, just move if I'm wrong. Sorry for the inconvenience ...

[Edited on 05.01.2007 8:52 AM PDT]

  • 05.01.2007 8:52 AM PDT
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I think that is a pretty good idea, the map file size one might be harder to do because you are able to edit files and have the exact same size, you just put in/remove information that is meaningless

the ping one is a great idea tho, if you bluescreen it auto changes host, problem solved!!!

lets hear some more feedback tho!

  • 05.01.2007 9:35 AM PDT
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Posted by: Snog Canavi
Okay, lately I've run thought a bunch crap of stand-byer. In fact it's actually pointless because they will be reseting the level in no more than a month. ( actually they claim that their new ban hammer will do great ) though most cheater have stop because of the rank reset doesn't really want to think about it once they reset it...

Anyway, as far as i know, it's possible to maybe prevent the cheat by more then 80% using these two method, the ping & map file size.

Let me explain, as for the ping, I believe it's possible for bungie to make a patch that analysis the ping of every player every once and then, as they said before the game actually looks your history to see what game type and how big your connection can handle. The host is actually the person that can handle the best connection with everyone in the room. But what if he mess with it after ? At this point, if the patch (what i suggested earlier) notice that the player (host) is actually doing really bad, blue screen and gives host to someone that actually have the best ping around ( and of course prevent the previous player to get it back by stopping his own lag ). This will for sure own most of stand-byers.

Now the map size! How would the map size can prevent cheat ? Let me tell you, it's pretty easy. Bungie have for sure a direct connection with your xbox, once again a patch that looks for your map size every time you LOG on the xbox live via HALO 2. If someone actually have a moded map, the map doesn't have for sure the same file size. As we aren't even supposed to MODIFY any of those content distributed by bungie i think it's fair enough to block the player' access to the matchmaking till the map size match with what bungie distributed.

There might be some problem about file size though. As some patch can improve the maps but then again according that we doesn't see the "auto-update" each time we log in, it's possible for em to look at our Halo2 version. Anyway the modding seems to have stopped since the new ban hammer, but stand-byers are still alive ..... somehow which is kind sad.

Hope this help anything making a new ban-hammer system ^^


[edit] not shure if this belong to this forum, just move if I'm wrong. Sorry for the inconvenience ...


I imagine that the reason that they did not do this is because it was not there from the start.


I always wondered why they did not do a CRC check on the map before it gets loaded and fail any player thats map doesnt match the CRC and also why they dont do "invisible" or high lag host hand-offs on games where there is a long period of high lag for multiple players...


heres why i think they cant

1) the CRC check was not built into the disc, meaning that if it was put on the xbox as code, it can be modified by the hacker to match the CRCs that they have for their modified maps..

Now i dont know why they cant make the CRC run off of XBL itself, like the MM servers, but my guess is that its probably a cost issue to upgrade that in there

2) the host handoff, i think this is a pure issue of code already being on the disc that handles that networking and they dont want to mess with it on the HD for fear of causing more bugs.

  • 05.01.2007 10:15 AM PDT
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I thought the blue screen was for changing hosts in the first place? By the time the game checks all of the other players connections again, the host may be finished 'standbying', and his ping may be back to normal. I suppose this could be identified as standbying by the game, but it'd be a risky assumption that would probably happen frequently and become extremely annoying.

Pings can be very sporadic, any sort of activity on your line (such as downloading a hefty web page on a connected PC) can push your ping up tenfold. If the game took this as a standby, the host would constantly be changing.

I can imagine Bungie have tested such methods, and their current systems will be far more advanced than most people can think up

[Edited on 05.01.2007 10:22 AM PDT]

  • 05.01.2007 10:16 AM PDT
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Location: Outlaws' Summit.

Modding has already been stopped. Modders can still get into a game though, but he'll only last 30 seconds before getting banned, so there's no point in them doing it.

So...........modding has been vanquish. About the standby, I agree. There should be a program that checks if the packets are being manipulated, and if they are, just find a new host.

Maybe they're working on something like that, but are having trouble..........

  • 05.01.2007 10:33 AM PDT

It would be better to check MD5 and SHA1 checksums instead of verifying the file sizes.

  • 05.01.2007 10:51 AM PDT

I work here: Sound Devices, LLC. We make bad-ass field audio gear, and you think that's awesome. My messy desk (With work-related items on the computer screen).

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Posted by: zOMG WTF U DIED
I always wondered why they did not do a CRC check on the map before it gets loaded and fail any player thats map doesnt match the CRC and also why they dont do "invisible" or high lag host hand-offs on games where there is a long period of high lag for multiple players...

Another possible reason might be that running a cyclic redundancy check for each player in the game might add up to a lot of bandwidth usage.

Interesting ideas, Snog Canavi.

  • 05.01.2007 10:51 AM PDT
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Posted by: jmh9072
It would be better to check MD5 and SHA1 checksums instead of verifying the file sizes.


Hence: CRC Check.....

  • 05.01.2007 11:12 AM PDT
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Posted by: AnalogWeapon
Posted by: zOMG WTF U DIED
I always wondered why they did not do a CRC check on the map before it gets loaded and fail any player thats map doesnt match the CRC and also why they dont do "invisible" or high lag host hand-offs on games where there is a long period of high lag for multiple players...

Another possible reason might be that running a cyclic redundancy check for each player in the game might add up to a lot of bandwidth usage.

Interesting ideas, Snog Canavi.


I doubt it, CRC checks are usually quick and painless, even on files much larger than the maps are. Each map is < 50 MB, a CRC check on the map would take maybe 3 or 4 seconds. Now if this data was all sent over the net and CRC'd on bungies side, then yes, that would kill bandwidth

  • 05.01.2007 11:13 AM PDT

Posted by: zOMG WTF U DIED
Posted by: jmh9072
It would be better to check MD5 and SHA1 checksums instead of verifying the file sizes.


Hence: CRC Check.....

Oh, I didn't see that you said that. Sorry.

Anyway, this would be the best way of doing it. The Xbox could send the checksum(s) to the server, and if they're correct, it would let you onto XBL.

  • 05.01.2007 11:20 AM PDT

I work here: Sound Devices, LLC. We make bad-ass field audio gear, and you think that's awesome. My messy desk (With work-related items on the computer screen).

One does not simply grenade jump into Mordor...

Posted by: zOMG WTF U DIED
I doubt it, CRC checks are usually quick and painless, even on files much larger than the maps are. Each map is < 50 MB, a CRC check on the map would take maybe 3 or 4 seconds. Now if this data was all sent over the net and CRC'd on bungies side, then yes, that would kill bandwidth

Good point. When I posted that I was also thinking that the check would need to be made per player, per game, but then I realized that it would most likely only need to be done per player, per XBL login. I assume that a modified resource can't be loaded from within the game...

From what I've read about modifying maps, it seems like a lot can be changed via hex editing. That is another reason why a CRC would be necessary over a simple file size check (i.e. when I change "af05" to "aa06", there is no change in the amount of bytes in the file I'm editing).

[Edited on 05.01.2007 11:52 AM PDT]

  • 05.01.2007 11:48 AM PDT
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actually, changing af05 to aa06 enough times would give you some type of change in file size in the end, but yes a CRC would be the best bet at the beginning of every XBL login or as each map is pulled up for the first time at a login. My guess is that they did not do this because it was not implemented on the disc and therefore not easily able to be implemented. I am sure they will have this sort of security come H3

  • 05.01.2007 11:54 AM PDT