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Subject: Should Join Dates be completely removed?

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  • 05.02.2007 6:13 AM PDT

Inside the Mind of Halotitan Help me get expand my mind.

naw, I say keep them. I'm proud of the fact that i've been a member for over two, hmm maybe three years. But I don't feel that because I've been here since 2004 that my posts have more meaning to them than someone whos been here two months.

  • 05.02.2007 6:19 AM PDT
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Yes it does have some elitism but, on the inverse, it provides a sense of identification between members. People need to feel like they belong with another member, rather than simply be a faceless block of text. Homogenous communities might be free of elitism and ascendancy but I would wager the members also have significantly less motivation to improve themselves.

With growth, there will always be elitism, complete removal is as antagonistic as elitism in excess. I know when I see another '04er I tend to see a link between us moreso than with the 03'ers or the '05ers. Not because of seniority, but because they were a member of the same scene I was. Now I am very tired and repeating myself so I will about leave it.

  • 05.02.2007 6:20 AM PDT
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I say remove them. They are a pointless, meaningless statistic, that serves only to create Elitism. Only the quality of posts of a user should count, not the fact that they joined by a certain date.

  • 05.02.2007 6:21 AM PDT
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The Frozen Minority - The most infamous clan borne from the Seventh Column.

I browse these forums like some kind of hawkish bird like feathered bird. I rarely see discrimination based on age, when I do, though, I blacklist the offender. And you would be suprised, when I see an '04er I rack my brain trying to remember if I once knew them.

We could do chapters but the removal of dates completely would result in even more of the "2005 only Group"'s. They spring up a lot, that is real elitism at play. I really don't see the advantage of reducing the community to a complete porridge. I never liked the head in the sand approach to elitism, at least with join dates avaliable for the determined, people can associate with each other and it is done.

  • 05.02.2007 6:43 AM PDT
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Posted by: Pezza
With growth, there will always be elitism, complete removal is as antagonistic as elitism in excess. I know when I see another '04er I tend to see a link between us moreso than with the 03'ers or the '05ers. Not because of seniority, but because they were a member of the same scene I was. Now I am very tired and repeating myself so I will about leave it.


But the thing is that the scene you came out of is unimportant, instead it is important to see how you act in the present scene.

it provides a sense of identification between members. Your name provides more than enough identification

People need to feel like they belong with another member, rather than simply be a faceless block of text.If people who have been around for a long time(obviously the people most likely to feel this need and have it effected by their time on the forums) need a date to see who they are friends with, who they get along with, etc. than they are pretty slow.

rather than simply be a faceless block of text.There is plenty of individualization with avatars, in profile backgrounds, sigs, and post content, a join date is so infinatly miniscule in this respect that I dont see it as having any real effect of individualization, other than to be used as a way of demeaning other members, or artificially inflating the value of a users posts.

Homogenous communities might be free of elitism and ascendancy but I would wager the members also have significantly less motivation to improve themselves. But you dont improve yourself by joining sooner, there is no reward on this site for selfimprovement other than the rep one gains by being a good poster, so once again, this benifit cant really be applied to join dates.

  • 05.02.2007 6:44 AM PDT
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I've never seen discrimination based on age, but I know it happens. I really think that removing join dates would be pointles, though... The amount of 'elitism' caused by them is so tiny, and as Pezza said, it's nice to know who's who.

It's also helpful to be able to e.g. see 3 members agreeing with each other and bumping a thread, checking join dates, finding they were made that day, reporting it to be checked out and then seeing three of them blacklisted for being alternate accounts. Very satisfying.

And something people don't want to seem to admit is that in many cases 'elitism' has a basis in truth... Those people who have been active members of this site since 2002 probably do know more about Bungie etc. than an '06 member - it's certainly not an argument-winner or a refection on the newer member, but the older member does deserve a little more weight added to their words.

  • 05.02.2007 6:58 AM PDT

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We're barely, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves

Posted by: Pezza
I browse these forums like some kind of hawkish bird like feathered bird.


As opposed to the unfeathered hawkish bird like bird? ;)

  • 05.02.2007 7:03 AM PDT
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Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

I agree 100% with Saint, Pezza, and HaloTitan.

I have found that as long as you keep your own posts on topic, there is NEVER a problem with people trying to call you out or act arrogant about join dates. Yet I find myself checking people's join dates several times a day. Sometimes I want to see if a spammer's account was just created (much like yours, MLG_Achronos -- over 100 posts in 3 days hmmmm), or, if I'm impressed with the quality of a post, I want to see how long that guy's been around. It's a useful, interesting statistic that only creates a problem when you allow it to. Stay on topic and it won't even become an issue (unless the topic is join dates).

On another note, removing join dates might cause even more of a problem. Without the ability to view them, I can easily see people lying about how long they've been around in order to try to bolster a losing argument -- even more than they do now. How many times have you seen someone say, "Well this is my third account. I've been around for years!"

If join dates were removed, it would get even worse with no verifiability.

[Edited on 05.02.2007 7:12 AM PDT]

  • 05.02.2007 7:11 AM PDT
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Posted by: Pezza
We could do chapters but the removal of dates completely would result in even more of the "2005 only Group"'s.
How would they have an 05 only group when nobody could prove that they were from 05?

They spring up a lot, that is real elitism at play.
So, removing join dates would crush these groups aswell

I really don't see the advantage of reducing the community to a complete porridge. I never liked the head in the sand approach to elitism, at least with join dates avaliable for the determined, people can associate with each other and it is done.

Why do you keep saying it reduces the community to much? A join date shows nothing other than when you made your account, and that shouldnt matter in the first place. It should be based on the content of your posting, not the age of the account doing the posting.

  • 05.02.2007 7:21 AM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: Pezza
Yes it does have some elitism but, on the inverse, it provides a sense of identification between members. People need to feel like they belong with another member, rather than simply be a faceless block of text. Homogenous communities might be free of elitism and ascendancy but I would wager the members also have significantly less motivation to improve themselves.

With growth, there will always be elitism, complete removal is as antagonistic as elitism in excess. I know when I see another '04er I tend to see a link between us moreso than with the 03'ers or the '05ers. Not because of seniority, but because they were a member of the same scene I was. Now I am very tired and repeating myself so I will about leave it.


This is exactly why i feel age display, join dates, and other profile info being displayed helps a community interact more. Although it should only be displayed on the profile pages, and not the forums to help prevent some of the elitism here.

  • 05.02.2007 7:44 AM PDT
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Posted by: MLG_Achronos
Posted by: Pezza
We could do chapters but the removal of dates completely would result in even more of the "2005 only Group"'s.

Do you know there are already groups like that out there? Have you seen the chapter Membership Denied? The Flood Sleepover? Or maybe you seen the chapter called The Flood Regulars?


That's just invite-only groups, it has nothing to do with join date. People would make the year groups to show what year they joined those that find that important, and that would be a nuisance.

  • 05.02.2007 8:14 AM PDT

If you want to see the MC die, play Legendary. If you want to see MC finish the fight, play Halo 3. If you want to see MC finish the fight by dieing, why did you waste six years when you could have done it yourself right now?

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Why are the quality of posts compared to join dates in the first place? You have to go clear out of your way to see join dates as it is. Either way, wouldn't this inspire people to make better and better posts? The quality of the site will inevitably become better and better. But no, we have to complain about it like everything else "wrong" with this site. We'll never change, will we?

Although, seriously. The quality of the posts people make on these forums is leaps and bounds better then most other forum websites. Why? Little things like this? Or is the quality much higher because the bar was set higher to begin with due to bungie's past? Just a little something to think about.

[Edited on 05.02.2007 9:06 AM PDT]

  • 05.02.2007 8:55 AM PDT

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Stumbled upon this topic, and felt the urge to comment.

On the topic of elitism, there is an almost pride within myself knowing that I've been a long time upstanding "member" for almost 3 years. So I can understand the want of keeping the Join Date. I don't feel that it should be removed, in fact I think it is pretty good the way it is. Although, I have witnessed more then my fair share of "I've been here longer then you" debates, and the "this is my 3rd account" comments is used fairly often.

Yet on the topic of quality of posts, that is something that perhaps will never change. This community is largely diverse, bringing in all age groups. Halo is what brought the majority of "posters" to this forum, including myself, but there are regular "members" that have been here since Bungie's youthful days. I would state that around last year I began to notice a huge difference in "posters" and "members". Posters came to the forums to get info on Halo 3 and news about new Halo 2 maps and etc. While "members" explored more of the community setting as well as feed their "all things bungie" need. "Members" also can someitmes come across as arrogant and mean to "posters"... when we feel that "posters" aren't contributing, simply leeching off the community. But that's just my opinion.

With any community, the seniors always have a way of carrying themselves, while the new guys tend to either make a ruckus or sit quietly on the sidelines and observe. Add the fact of animosity and you'll get chaos from spammers who get bored.

I better get to the point... I like the idea that if someone wanted to know how long I've been a "member", then they can look it up. Then they know that when someone tells them something, there is large chance that this person knows what they're talking about. yet at the same time, there are many people whoare new to the forum and act like "members", and are quite knowledgeable of Bungie and their past... not just Halo. I am on B.net everyday, I scan threads while at work and at home. It is really is a virtual home for me, and when I see "posters" acting up, I ask them to behave... some listen but most don't. In these situations, the Join date helps. Not nearly as much as an administrator's voice helps, but it can be a positive view of Elitism. Not the "I'm better then you, so listen to me" way, but more of the seniority aspect that you could normally only get from say... a big brother/sister.

Did that make any sense?

~soulguard

  • 05.02.2007 9:53 AM PDT
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Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: MLG_Achronos
Posted by: MLG_Achronos
Posted by: x Foman123 x
(much like yours, MLG_Achronos -- over 100 posts in 3 days hmmmm),

Exactly, see what I mean? Join dates should be removed.

Don't be ridiculous. I was looking at your "more posts by this user" which shows that you created a new account just to spam the forums. Has very little to do with the join date.

Stop spamming, double-posting, cross-posting, and flamebaiting. You might be having fun, but it's just annoying to the rest of us.

[Edited on 05.02.2007 10:17 AM PDT]

  • 05.02.2007 10:16 AM PDT

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It's quite interesting to see when people joined up and so i think it is a nice part of any site. However, the removal of the join date form forum post 'member sections' (section with avatar, security role/titles etc) i think was a good counter-elitism measure as it hindered people from making rash judgements quickly when replying to someone's post.

  • 05.02.2007 10:18 AM PDT

If you want to see the MC die, play Legendary. If you want to see MC finish the fight, play Halo 3. If you want to see MC finish the fight by dieing, why did you waste six years when you could have done it yourself right now?

☼►Popular Fusion - Doing anything, everything, and then some.◄☼

There's nothing wrong with join dates, just that people take them too seriously. Just like ranks, rare items in a game, and imaginary rep points. That's just how it goes.

And I'm not sure you heard me correctly, Soulguard. The quality of posts is HIGHER then other forums! Have you ever been to ESPN.com's forums? During the draft, there would be 20 or so threads IN A MATTER OF SECONDS talking about the same thing with very slight variations. Imagine if B.net were like that. H3 forums is nothing compared to what it could be.

  • 05.02.2007 10:21 AM PDT

Tom Achronos
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"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

No, they shouldn't. Join dates were removed from the forums to prevent rash judgements during replies, but are still an important part of your identity.

And despite what you think - members who have been here longer ARE generally more trusted to behave than newer members, simply because we know what to expect from the guys who have been here longer.

This "elitism" fear has got to stop. There is little evidence to support that having join dates causes this. The only thing we've seen that has no redeeming value are posts counts - and those have been gone a long time.

Join dates stay. End of discussion.

  • 05.02.2007 10:50 AM PDT
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Posted by: Achronos
And despite what you think - members who have been here longer ARE generally more trusted to behave than newer members, simply because we know what to expect from the guys who have been here longer.


Shucks, ta love.

  • 05.02.2007 10:59 AM PDT

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Posted by: bansheeownz
...
And I'm not sure you heard me correctly, Soulguard. The quality of posts is HIGHER then other forums! Have you ever been to ESPN.com's forums? During the draft, there would be 20 or so threads IN A MATTER OF SECONDS talking about the same thing with very slight variations. Imagine if B.net were like that. H3 forums is nothing compared to what it could be.

You are right about that. And also, it seems that it all comes in waves. Namely when big news is posted about anything Halo. I've been to several forums in th past, but I only frequent b.net daily. Some forums can be down right laughable.


Posted by: Achronos
No, they shouldn't. Join dates were removed from the forums to prevent rash judgements during replies, but are still an important part of your identity.

And despite what you think - members who have been here longer ARE generally more trusted to behave than newer members, simply because we know what to expect from the guys who have been here longer.

This "elitism" fear has got to stop. There is little evidence to support that having join dates causes this. The only thing we've seen that has no redeeming value are posts counts - and those have been gone a long time.

Join dates stay. End of discussion.


~soulguard

  • 05.02.2007 11:04 AM PDT
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Posted by: mr poopoo232
its like a large force of win going through fusion, thus creating a chain reaction of a huge asplosion of win destroying any fail within its awesomeness.

Is this about what happened in that other thread with Monty Python? That was just friends sticking up for friends.

[Edited on 05.02.2007 11:09 AM PDT]

  • 05.02.2007 11:07 AM PDT

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