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Subject: What is this blasphemy? (H3 Emblems)
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Once again, Bungie and Microsoft are locking out the rest of the world on an oppertunity to do with Halo 3.

First they deny everyone outside the USA and Canada the chance to enter the Beta through the primary official means, instead having to purchase Crackdown or enter competitions in magzines.

Now they deny everyone outside the USA and Canada the oppertunity to contribute to the game by sending an Icon. Not only that, but they get me all exited to the extent that I open photoshop ready to draw and then at the bottom of the page,

"By the way you're not allowed to participate because you are foreign!"

So yes I am angry and annoyed, but if someone could possibly tell me the reasoning behind this I would be very greatfull.

I see no need to lock out a large proportion of the community.

  • 05.03.2007 12:49 AM PDT
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I think it has to do with different laws in different countries. It's the same way with every contest. To open a contest up to many different countries, they would have to jump through hoops, which just isn't worth it for something so small. Honestly, I think this says more about the state of bureaucracy than about anyone trying to screw you over. Did you read the legal wording behind it? All that for a simple, friendly contest.

Also, no matter what you do, you should not ask one of your American or Canadian friends to submit one for you. I'm sure that there is someone you know who isn't planning on submitting one, but make sure you don't ask anyone to do it. Because that would be wrong.

Just sayin'.

  • 05.03.2007 1:18 AM PDT
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As soon as I find out I will surely tell you, mate. And I'm sure people will come through with "Oh but it says not for outside north America YET." Because, we shouldn't have to wait any longer.

Sometimes I really wonder what is going on in the marketing/whoever the hell's idea this was' head.

  • 05.03.2007 1:23 AM PDT
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There are legal reasons. That's all I know. Personally I'm annoyed, but not THAT annoyed.

Posted by: aku
Also, no matter what you do, you should not ask one of your American or Canadian friends to submit one for you. I'm sure that there is someone you know who isn't planning on submitting one, but make sure you don't ask anyone to do it. Because that would be wrong.

Why? I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
-TGP-

[Edited on 05.03.2007 1:25 AM PDT]

  • 05.03.2007 1:24 AM PDT
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Posted by: Pezza
As soon as I find out I will surely tell you, mate. And I'm sure people will come through with "Oh but it says not for outside north America YET." Because, we shouldn't have to wait any longer.

Sometimes I really wonder what is going on in the marketing/whoever the hell's idea this was' head.


I know!

I mean, there was that faceplate contest on HBO a while back that was judged by Bungie, and all they had to do was a little disclaimer saying that on submission the art becomes property of Bungie Studios.

So whats the need for a huge legal document this time around?

TGP
There are legal reasons. That's all I know. Personally I'm annoyed, but not THAT annoyed.


I'm more annoyed about how everyone outside NA is being screwed over by a lot of things at the moment...

[Edited on 05.03.2007 1:29 AM PDT]

  • 05.03.2007 1:27 AM PDT
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Oh legalities are awful, awful burdens upon society. Anyway, I'm not going to go into the same thing as I did with the US Beta Only threads. I am just not going to. Just put my name down on the "No" pile of people who support the current competition regulations.

  • 05.03.2007 1:30 AM PDT
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Mourne not your comrades who must dwell / too strong to strive -
Within each steel-bound coffin of a cell, / Buried alive;
But rather mourne the apathetic throng / The cowed, and the meek -
Who see the world’s great anguish and its wrong / And dare not speak.

[group]167741|Diner|Where's the food?[/group]

Posted by: Great_Pretender
There are legal reasons. That's all I know. Personally I'm annoyed, but not THAT annoyed.

Posted by: aku
Also, no matter what you do, you should not ask one of your American or Canadian friends to submit one for you. I'm sure that there is someone you know who isn't planning on submitting one, but make sure you don't ask anyone to do it. Because that would be wrong.

Why? I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
-TGP-


hmm... I assumed that with all the legal crap, going around it may make someone wet their pants. Then again, making a lawyer wet their $5000 slacks would be fun. By all means, go for it.

  • 05.03.2007 1:31 AM PDT
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As stated before, it are legal reasons, a lot of countries have there own laws regarding contests. Of course, I personally don't see what could be wrong with making and emailing a little emblem, but than again, I'm no lawyer.

  • 05.03.2007 1:49 AM PDT
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Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: aku
hmm... I assumed that with all the legal crap, going around it may make someone wet their pants. Then again, making a lawyer wet their $5000 slacks would be fun. By all means, go for it.

Man, I WISH I owned some $5000 slacks.

Anyway, the fact is that restricting entries to the 50 United States and Canada are boilerplate (lawyer talk for "typical") provisions for pretty much every contest and sweepstakes that any organization runs in the US. The reasons why involve simplicity, mostly, as well as self-protection. Microsoft does not want to have to send a team of 10 lawyers to defend a claim in Upper Siberia because somebody thought that they were going to get paid for submitting a Halo 3 emblem.

By restricting the contest to USA and Canada, the contest can also be restricted to the body of law that the company is familiar with without having to worry about some newly enacted law in Albania that they never heard of that provides for a 10 zillion dollar fine for any contest or sweepstakes.

I am currently practicing law here in the United States, so I'm not permitted to give out legal advice in situations like this, but I did want to give you some background information that will hopefully ease your mind that it's not Bungie or Microsoft who is purposely trying to shut out the rest of the world, but rather it's Bungie's/Microsoft's lawyers. As usual, they are to blame ;-)

[Edited on 05.03.2007 2:17 AM PDT]

  • 05.03.2007 2:12 AM PDT
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k. Thanks for clearing that up Foman.

  • 05.03.2007 2:22 AM PDT
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Seeing as if you 'win' all you actually get are bragging rights, just get an American friend to submit it for you.

  • 05.03.2007 5:40 AM PDT
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Posted by: just another fan
As stated before, it are legal reasons, a lot of countries have there own laws regarding contests. Of course, I personally don't see what could be wrong with making and emailing a little emblem, but than again, I'm no lawyer.


You know, I hear that a lot about these contests and to an extent I'm prepared to grudgingly accept c'est vrai... but just once I'd like to actually be told what those legal concerns are, rather than just being left hanging with vagaries.

  • 05.03.2007 6:16 AM PDT

You say tomato; I say potato.

It's not like Bungie announced that Halo 3 will only come out in North America. It's just a silly contest. Bungie didn't have to do it.

  • 05.03.2007 7:01 AM PDT

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Wow, has no one thought of Mexico? The 3rd country in north America?

And not all of Canada is involved int he contest. Quebec doesn't get to participate at all either.

Glad to see some people thought out there posts completely.

  • 05.03.2007 7:19 AM PDT
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Mourne not your comrades who must dwell / too strong to strive -
Within each steel-bound coffin of a cell, / Buried alive;
But rather mourne the apathetic throng / The cowed, and the meek -
Who see the world’s great anguish and its wrong / And dare not speak.

[group]167741|Diner|Where's the food?[/group]

Posted by: spartakus14
Wow, has no one thought of Mexico? The 3rd country in north America?

And not all of Canada is involved int he contest. Quebec doesn't get to participate at all either.

Glad to see some people thought out there posts completely.

Mexico who?

Eh, I think most people say North America because it's easier that saying "The 50 United States, District of Columbia, and Canada (excluding Quebec)."

I'd chalk it up to laziness over anything else.

  • 05.03.2007 9:01 AM PDT
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Posted by: gnome13
It's not like Bungie announced that Halo 3 will only come out in North America. It's just a silly contest. Bungie didn't have to do it.


"Bungie didn't have to do it!".

That just makes me laugh.

Why should I be gratefull (sp?) that they did somthing that I have no way of legally participating in?

I wouldn't complain were it not for the fact that this is the 2nd thing in recent times that Bungie has screwed over non-USA and non-Canada (excluding Quebec :p).

It's the underhandedness[/made up word] that makes me annoyed. Why can they not just say at the top of the page who the offer reffers to instead of getting people's hopes up before throwing in a snide comment at the end of the article informing us that once again, you're not invited.

[Edited on 05.03.2007 9:57 AM PDT]

  • 05.03.2007 9:54 AM PDT
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Instead of everyone worrying about not being able to enter the contest, you should be worrying that your not American.

  • 05.03.2007 10:04 AM PDT
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Posted by: Johnny Fever
Instead of everyone worrying about not being able to enter the contest, you should be worrying that your not American.


Now was it really necessary to say that? Come on.

Keep elitisim out of this please.

I'd rather worry about the issue at hand, not the fact that I wasn't born in a certain place.

  • 05.03.2007 10:16 AM PDT

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Posted by: Cockburnicus
You missed the point like Vader missed the banshee, your whole argument is covered in bees.
Stop sending me group invites -blam!-s!

I don't see how making a small Jpeg and giving it to Bungie to do with as they please could have any legal issues.

  • 05.03.2007 10:22 AM PDT

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I don't really see why Bungie couldn't let them submit emblems anyway.. I mean, honestly, I'd submit an emblem, with zero credit, just to see it in Halo 3. That's awesome enough. ;)

The only prize is, afterall, seeing it in Halo 3.. I'm a bit curious as to why they won't accept anyway. Sheesh, maybe some of your guys overseas should send 'em in anway. ;)

  • 05.03.2007 10:56 AM PDT
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Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: muffin man one
I don't see how making a small Jpeg and giving it to Bungie to do with as they please could have any legal issues.

You have to start this analysis by looking at what is at stake. And that is: no matter how small, an original piece of art belongs to its creator and is protected by copyright laws in nearly every country in the world. But obviously, those laws are counterbalanced by contract laws in every country that allow companies like Bungie to run contests like this, where they basically say that "you are turning over all of your rights to this piece of art to Bungie."

That's all well and good, but the only problem arises once you realize that those laws are not uniform across the world. What might be close to the line copyright infringement here might very well be blatant infringement in the UK, or in Zaire, or in Indonesia. For a free contest with no real profits on the line, why pay somebody to do a 180-country survey of copyright laws when you could merely restrict the contest to the laws that your in-house lawyers already know?

As I said in my previous post, this is probably an issue of simplicity, risk-management, and prevention rather than an actual legal problem. It is possible that this contest would be just fine in any country in the world. But organizations who restrict these contests do so for risk-management purposes. It's not anything evil or nefarious towards other countries. It's just that they do not want to run the risk of having to pay a bunch of lawyers $600/hr to litigate intellectual property claims in faraway countries for no good reason.

It sucks, but risk-management is how companies keep their shareholders happy.

[Edited on 05.03.2007 11:19 AM PDT]

  • 05.03.2007 11:16 AM PDT
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Posted by: x Foman123 x
That's all well and good, but the only problem arises once you realize that those laws are not uniform across the world. What might be close to the line copyright infringement here might very well be blatant infringement in the UK, or in Zaire, or in Indonesia.

I believe Foman has just ended this thread with that simple statement.

  • 05.03.2007 12:31 PM PDT

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Posted by: x Foman123 x
That's all well and good, but the only problem arises once you realize that those laws are not uniform across the world. What might be close to the line copyright infringement here might very well be blatant infringement in the UK, or in Zaire, or in Indonesia.

What about China? I hear they don't have any copyright or trademark infringement laws in China. Thats another billion+ possibilities the community is missing out on.

  • 05.03.2007 1:27 PM PDT
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Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: twinkiemaker
Posted by: x Foman123 x
That's all well and good, but the only problem arises once you realize that those laws are not uniform across the world. What might be close to the line copyright infringement here might very well be blatant infringement in the UK, or in Zaire, or in Indonesia.

What about China? I hear they don't have any copyright or trademark infringement laws in China. Thats another billion+ possibilities the community is missing out on.

Well that was true 20 years ago, but China has really made a lot of progress in protecting its citizens' rights since then. China definitely has a copyright law. Chapter V includes the infringement portions of the law.

Interestingly, the Chinese copyright law as a whole differs from American copyright laws in several ways, which is actually a great demonstration of my earlier points.

  • 05.03.2007 1:57 PM PDT

Strange evolution how people have come to believe
That we are it's greatest achievement
We're barely, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves

Posted by: x Foman123 x
Posted by: twinkiemaker
Posted by: x Foman123 x
That's all well and good, but the only problem arises once you realize that those laws are not uniform across the world. What might be close to the line copyright infringement here might very well be blatant infringement in the UK, or in Zaire, or in Indonesia.

What about China? I hear they don't have any copyright or trademark infringement laws in China. Thats another billion+ possibilities the community is missing out on.

Well that was true 20 years ago, but China has really made a lot of progress in protecting its citizens' rights since then. China definitely has a copyright law. Chapter V includes the infringement portions of the law.

Interestingly, the Chinese copyright law as a whole differs from American copyright laws in several ways, which is actually a great demonstration of my earlier points.

See what a little gentle prodding can yield?

  • 05.03.2007 2:04 PM PDT

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