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Subject: Membership has its REWARDS. So, what are they?
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The Marty Army

Ah, look at the lonely people...

Posted by: natedogr
Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: WhiteRaven119
Precisely. You hit the nail on the head. I think this'd be a great way of handling our desire to converse with Bungie staffers. It'd have to be heavily moderated, though, as it'd most likely be the prime target for griefers because that's where the Bungie employees are more likely to post. That'd require beefing up the mod staff, and, well, that's a different matter entirely. ;)

But if some griefer spent the time and energy making positive contributions on the public forums, all to build up enough TC to be allowed into the Champagne Room and tell Jason to "suck my ballz!".... well, they wouldn't get a chance for a second post, probably lose their entire TC balance, be disallowed from ever re-earning the privilege and their efforts in the public forums (while building TC) would still have occurred.


And that member could also get banned in the public forums. It would help keep people accountable and give an incentive.

Of course, this all depends on whether or not Bungie staffers actually care to post. The only staffers I've ever seen post even remotely regularly are Frankie, Sketch, Achronos, Marty (In The Marty Army), and a few others whos names escape me now. But, if they agreed, I definately think this'd be a great idea.

  • 05.03.2007 6:47 PM PDT

Posted by: RoboChocobo
Here's my 2 cents.

Perhaps a system devised that Mods, Ninjas, and Achronos could "elect" members for a trusted status based off a good track record, Join Date, Quality posts, an interest in the community, fan projects, helpful nature, etc.

That way Members who had a solid interest in the Bungie community would slowly rise to the top of the barrel. Of course one wonders how the Halo 2 and 3 forums would take it......

I just don't don't find that flashy enough for members to want to be more community oriented, not all members just the majority. With your idea, they would probably be doing the same as they do now, of course there will be a select few though. I think the TC's are where it is at.

Edit:Aha, I found it, there wouldn't be enough visible motivation.

[Edited on 05.03.2007 6:52 PM PDT]

  • 05.03.2007 6:50 PM PDT
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Perhaps more Bungie staffers than we know post here. Any of them could create an account and fit in with everyone else with us being none the wiser.

  • 05.03.2007 6:50 PM PDT

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: WhiteRaven119
Precisely. You hit the nail on the head. I think this'd be a great way of handling our desire to converse with Bungie staffers. It'd have to be heavily moderated, though, as it'd most likely be the prime target for griefers because that's where the Bungie employees are more likely to post. That'd require beefing up the mod staff, and, well, that's a different matter entirely. ;)

But if some griefer spent the time and energy making positive contributions on the public forums, all to build up enough TC to be allowed into the Champagne Room and tell Jason to "suck my ballz!".... well, they wouldn't get a chance for a second post, probably lose their entire TC balance, be disallowed from ever re-earning the privilege and their efforts in the public forums (while building TC) would still have occurred.


While a lot of members would be honored with the opportunity to talk to Frankie and Sketch, unfortunately I think the feelings would not be mutual. If people like Frankie or Sketch wanted to post more, they would. The reason they don't rub elbows with the unwashed masses is because they choose not to. Thrusting members into their little comfort zone of an ivory tower forum might not sit too well with them.

I do like your idea Recon, but let me ask you this. Would something like trust credits have a noticeable impact on member behavior? Because I think the people who would take advantage of accumulating trust credits are the members who already conduct themselves appropriately.

  • 05.03.2007 6:53 PM PDT
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Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: RoboChocobo
Here's my 2 cents.

Perhaps a system devised that Mods, Ninjas, and Achronos could "elect" members for a trusted status based off a good track record, Join Date, Quality posts, an interest in the community, fan projects, helpful nature, etc.

That way Members who had a solid interest in the Bungie community would slowly rise to the top of the barrel. Of course one wonders how the Halo 2 and 3 forums would take it......

Actually, Achronos has built a system and is watching it collect data. This system has no human input, but rather observes members activities and assigns a trust rating to an account. I don't want to black box or reverse engineer it, but it would give positive values for doing positive things. Linking a gamertag, posting into varied forums, joining groups, etc. and would remove value for getting warned, being a a group with other members who have negative ratings, having created or participated in lots of locked threads, etc.

By having it not use human input, favoritism and bias can be greatly reduced. All members would be treated fairly as opposed to who they know (or blow).

Did I just say that?


An independent, invisible system does sound like the best alternative. That way there is no favoritism and the members don't know exactly how to improve their rankings. There is no need for B.net rank boosting. Furthermore, I am sure that Achronos will find ways to detect whether or not someone is just posting a lot of random posts just to be more trusted.

However, any references to Pimps@Sea, Soul, or arcane Marathon references should get bonus points. (Only kidding)

  • 05.03.2007 6:53 PM PDT

Posted by: atomic weggie
I do like your idea Recon, but let me ask you this. Would something like trust credits have a noticeable impact on member behavior? Because I think the people who would take advantage of accumulating trust credits are the members who already conduct themselves appropriately.

I can see what you are saying but is it not true that every little bit helps?

  • 05.03.2007 6:54 PM PDT
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The Marty Army

Ah, look at the lonely people...

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: RoboChocobo
Here's my 2 cents.

Perhaps a system devised that Mods, Ninjas, and Achronos could "elect" members for a trusted status based off a good track record, Join Date, Quality posts, an interest in the community, fan projects, helpful nature, etc.

That way Members who had a solid interest in the Bungie community would slowly rise to the top of the barrel. Of course one wonders how the Halo 2 and 3 forums would take it......

Actually, Achronos has built a system and is watching it collect data. This system has no human input, but rather observes members activities and assigns a trust rating to an account. I don't want to black box or reverse engineer it, but it would give positive values for doing positive things. Linking a gamertag, posting into varied forums, joining groups, etc. and would remove value for getting warned, being a a group with other members who have negative ratings, having created or participated in lots of locked threads, etc.

By having it not use human input, favoritism and bias can be greatly reduced. All members would be treated fairly as opposed to who they know (or blow).

Did I just say that?
I do believe you did.

But, the real question is, now that we have the system for giving out candy, what kind of candy will we be handing out? I like the ability to have more customization for your profile page, although nothing incredibly myspace-ish (no blogs or photojournals, ect...). Perhaps, even, with enough "Trust", the taboo custom avatar or even custom profile page header? If achronos's system is really that effective, it should be able to pull off selecting who is able to handle the privilege of their own avatar or the like.

Although, I'm sure someone's about to quote Achronos's famous line, so I'll beat you to it.

Posted by: Achronos
You're not ever getting custom avatars. Ever. Deal with it.


Edited for spelling and format.

[Edited on 05.03.2007 6:57 PM PDT]

  • 05.03.2007 6:56 PM PDT
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Posted by: The Slayer
Posted by: atomic weggie
I do like your idea Recon, but let me ask you this. Would something like trust credits have a noticeable impact on member behavior? Because I think the people who would take advantage of accumulating trust credits are the members who already conduct themselves appropriately.

I can see what you are saying but is it not true that every little bit helps?


What about the members who sit on the fence who would like to spam everyone once in a while but would think twice about doing it if they lose rewards. There aren't two clearly defined camps of good and bad users. A reward system would encourage anyone to a certain extent. Furthermore, psychologists often argue that rewards are more effective than punishments. The stick exists in Bungie, but the carrot is absent. I would like to see some balance.

  • 05.03.2007 6:57 PM PDT

Posted by: natedogr
What about the members who sit on the fence who would like to spam everyone once in a while but would think twice about doing it if they lose rewards. There aren't two clearly defined camps of good and bad users. A reward system would encourage anyone to a certain extent. Furthermore, psychologists often argue that rewards are more effective than punishments. The stick exists in Bungie, but the carrot is absent. I would like to see some balance.

Yes, there are only warnings and blacklistings/punishment. When do you see a member get PMd telling him how good he was. Thus TC's would indeed result in a sort of balance.

Edit: Grammar.

[Edited on 05.03.2007 7:01 PM PDT]

  • 05.03.2007 6:59 PM PDT
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I think that rewards would cause alot of forum members to think before they posted. Since there will be an accountability system, they have a reason to think about the appropirateness of their posts, where now we just have an email adress to report to a small sqaud of mods. It would also influence new users as well, I think, but more or less in terms of familiarity, being analougus to a reputation system.

EDIT- SIX posts appeared inbetween mine and the post I though I was going to be under. Let me read and re-reply...

EDIT^2- Alright, the trend I'm picking up here is "What is the balance going to be?" and "What are the rewards going to be?". I don't really know how to comment on balance, but a simple reward would be a custom title, something other than "Member". Its not a custom avatar, and it (theoretically) would be simple to operate. Loosing that reward would result in a reset of title back to "Member".

[Edited on 05.03.2007 7:06 PM PDT]

  • 05.03.2007 7:00 PM PDT

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Those are some wonderful ideas there Recon. I don't know how the "trust" system is going to work, probably wouldn't understand it if it was in plain English. However I think that the "profit incentive" here is really beneficial. However it's the rewards that should be considered. For anything remote like this to work I believe that users shouldn't have the option(s) to do any of the following with the "Trust Credit (TC)."

* Have custom Avatars
* Have custom Titles
* Post any sort of pictures
* Have colored posts (they're for important members/admins).
* Silly/Non-sense or anything that could be abused.

Things that I could see working would be:

* Buy Avatars like Picture Packs on Xbox Live / Personalize Avatar with pre-built components. (*)
* Allow a user to purchase the option to display his/her Join Date (Big "if" on this if any of this is considered).
* Buy a hint to where a B.net Easter Egg is hidden.
* A user could get enough points to perhaps interview a Ninja? (Appropriate/Mature conversation from both parties. Heck it could even be posted on the <gasp!> Front Page).
* Maybe a "Get out of Jail Free Card?" Something where they could wipe 1 and only 1 warning out of their records (however being a good member they wouldn't have any, so this entire thing is useless).
* Maybe a user could get enough points that he/she could trade them in for like a 10 dollar Bungie Store gift card?

Con's seem easier to think of rather than Pro's. However with what could happen I see a reason why it shouldn't happen. Before anyone says it, Yes! I'm contradicting myself. Role-playing might be helpful somewhere in life.

Some of the reasons why I think it shouldn't happen is due to elitism. Sure people are getting these "TC" points and are making beneficial contributions to the community. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that in my opinion. However they're reason for it might not be what you think it would. What is the purpose of someone helping the community if they're just trying to achieve Trust Points? Sure they're helping, but it's for the wrong reason. It's like helping an elderly women across the street and asking her for 5 bucks for the service when you get to the other side. It's a double-edged sword that could turn on you anytime. Some might say "So what! Why do we care as long as they're contributing?" Well let me ask you this, "Why contribute when you're not going to do it for the right reason?" If your going to help the community for the sole purpose of getting "Trust Credits," then you're obviously not going to do good at contributing, rather you're going to spam "goodness." And as I would like to think any spam is not deserving of this site. No matter it's intentions.

Contributing to this community means that you're going to sacrifice time, energy, and perhaps dinner to do it. You're going to have to sacrifice pride, honor, and even homework. This community requires a-lot from it's members, you can find out about all that it requires by reading it's guides: Terms of Use & Code of Conduct. Now to sacrifice any part of yourself for any cause, person, etc., is going to require that you do it 100%. You can't just say "I wan't to start a Political movement," or, "I want to overthrow this evil dictator," without doing it with full commitment. So even if you do commit 100% you need to have a legitmate reason. You can't say that you want to overthrow a dictator to establish a dictatorship. Where is the benefit in that? There isn't any! You can't start a Political movement so that you can use your status to get kickbacks!

What I'm saying is that you need to: sacrifice yourself, commit yourself, and have honor with yourself to successfully contribute to this community. Otherwise you're just another person with another opinion to express. Sure it's great to read opinions and discuss them, however, it's a different story to take an idea, see it to fruition, and then give it to someone willingly so that you can help them. You can always give a homeless man/woman a few dollars, however, most people never give them what they want...companionship. It's not often that you take time to sit down with someone, talk with them about their lives, feed them, comfort them, and then actually <gasp!> enjoy being human! So what is the point of all of this philosophical babble? It is quite simple. The point I'm trying to make is:

Without sacrifice, commitment, honor, and legitimacy you can't contribute to any facet of human relations (Reality of Cyberspace).

So do I think that Recon's idea is great, sure. Do I think we should try and reward members based on their "trust," sure. However, I think that we all need to make sure that we check and verify that we are contributing to this great community for proper reasons; that we're not doing it for some stupid Internet achievement. That we are contributing because we are a community, comrades, geeks, fans, and any other <insert noun> you can think of. We are here because we all have a love for Bungie and it's games, we want to let someone know of our best idea for Halo 3, that we want to complain about something to hopefully make Halo/Bungie better. We're all here for the same reason(s): Companionship, Friendship, & Bungie. So let's make sure that we keep that in mind when we're all posting. We're here for Bungie and the Community, let's post that way and be rewarded in the same manner as long as we're here for them. (Hint: My Thesis for this entire blob of Shenanigans called "English").

[Edited on 05.03.2007 7:06 PM PDT]

  • 05.03.2007 7:02 PM PDT

Posted by: natedogr
Posted by: The Slayer
Posted by: atomic weggie
I do like your idea Recon, but let me ask you this. Would something like trust credits have a noticeable impact on member behavior? Because I think the people who would take advantage of accumulating trust credits are the members who already conduct themselves appropriately.

I can see what you are saying but is it not true that every little bit helps?


What about the members who sit on the fence who would like to spam everyone once in a while but would think twice about doing it if they lose rewards. There aren't two clearly defined camps of good and bad users. A reward system would encourage anyone to a certain extent. Furthermore, psychologists often argue that rewards are more effective than punishments. The stick exists in Bungie, but the carrot is absent. I would like to see some balance.


Well then we get back to the "how" Recon didn't want to discuss, as well as can a forum as air tight as B.net offer good enough rewards for people to even care? Again, I have no problem rewarding people for good behavior. But if two years of good behavior is only rewarded with the divine priveldge of speaking with Frankie, no one's going to care.

  • 05.03.2007 7:05 PM PDT

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Posted by: atomic weggie
Well then we get back to the "how" Recon didn't want to discuss, as well as can a forum as air tight as B.net offer good enough rewards for people to even care? Again, I have no problem rewarding people for good behavior. But if two years of good behavior is only rewarded with the divine priveldge of speaking with Frankie, no one's going to care.


If by "Frankie" you mean "Weggie's mother", I would disagree with your statement whole-heartily.



[Edited on 05.03.2007 7:17 PM PDT]

  • 05.03.2007 7:08 PM PDT

Posted by: atomic weggie
Well then we get back to the "how" Recon didn't want to discuss, as well as can a forum as air tight as B.net offer good enough rewards for people to even care? Again, I have no problem rewarding people for good behavior. But if two years of good behavior is only rewarded with the divine priveldge of speaking with Frankie, no one's going to care.

That would not be the only reward, it is open to alot. It was never said that would be it either, here is a discussion of ideas, so think some up ;)

  • 05.03.2007 7:09 PM PDT

Posted by: The Slayer
Posted by: atomic weggie
Well then we get back to the "how" Recon didn't want to discuss, as well as can a forum as air tight as B.net offer good enough rewards for people to even care? Again, I have no problem rewarding people for good behavior. But if two years of good behavior is only rewarded with the divine priveldge of speaking with Frankie, no one's going to care.

That would not be the only reward, it is open to alot. It was never said that would be it either, here is a discussion of ideas, so think some up ;)


The kind of rewards I would be intererested in are not suitable to post on this forum.

*Recon grin*

  • 05.03.2007 7:12 PM PDT
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Posted by: Recon Number 54
But the question remains. What would be valuable and desirable things to spend your TC on?

Custom components on your profile page? if so, what sort of components?

Expanded PM abilities or functions?

"Members only" forum, or avatars or something else?

Invites to XBL special events? Similar to the humpdays?

The ability to post Halo 3 gamesaves? if they're not already going to be in a simple to transfer or link format?

That's what I am really curious about. What sort of wild "member rewards" would you like to see in an online catalog?


I guess my ideas are pretty modest:

*Ability for ninjas and admins in private groups to use colored text

*Access to exclusive content

*PM outbox (every other forum I have been to has one)

*Ability to contact mods directly to report spam and inappropriate content (should such a popular website really need to rely on an unrelated website to contact mods?)

*more customization of profiles

*more Pimps@Sea info

*private forum that only allows members of a certain ranking

  • 05.03.2007 7:14 PM PDT

Posted by: WolfmanMaverick
You people have just sent my sides into orbit. A bunch of MLG try hards sucking the dick of some supposed pro half the thread hasn't even heard of. Classic.

Posted by: Recon Number 54
That's what I am really curious about. What sort of wild "member rewards" would you like to see in an online catalog?

I will say it before anyone. Nekkid pics of stosh.

  • 05.03.2007 7:15 PM PDT
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Posted by: Achilles1108
Posted by: Recon Number 54
That's what I am really curious about. What sort of wild "member rewards" would you like to see in an online catalog?

I will say it before anyone. Nekkid pics of stosh.


Wouldn't that be a punishment?

  • 05.03.2007 7:16 PM PDT

.||./

My gamertag is SHADOWRIDERJP.

I like the idea of people being rewarded for being good. It can improve the quality of the forums. People would no doubt be good for the wrong reasons, but they will be good nevertheless. I can really see this working as long as the reward doesn't turn your profile into a myspace page. I really have no idea what TC could be spent on.

Whether rewards are implemented our not I will try to keep up my spotless blacklist and warning free account. That is its own reward. =)

  • 05.03.2007 7:16 PM PDT

Posted by: Achilles1108
Posted by: Recon Number 54
That's what I am really curious about. What sort of wild "member rewards" would you like to see in an online catalog?

I will say it before anyone. Nekkid pics of stosh.


Wouldn't that be more of a punishment?

jinx nate! You owe me a coke.............or a hooker, whichever you prefer.

[Edited on 05.03.2007 7:17 PM PDT]

  • 05.03.2007 7:16 PM PDT
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This WAS a post with a point, but it fails now, so I have to delete it.

:\

[Edited on 05.03.2007 7:18 PM PDT]

  • 05.03.2007 7:17 PM PDT

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