Halo: Combat Evolved Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: On the apparent lack of "balance" in Halo CE weapons
  • Subject: On the apparent lack of "balance" in Halo CE weapons
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • of 3
Subject: On the apparent lack of "balance" in Halo CE weapons

I'm a dude playing a dude desguised as another dude. I hate heritics, non-logical thoughts and people who are better than I am. People tell me that they like a lot of games, but I hate them all. Whenever I play a video game, I always go crawling back to Halo 3. Never go full retard!

There is no "lack of balance".

  • 06.01.2007 9:15 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I have no problem with the Halo 1 Pistol as a weapon.

My problem lies in it as a spawning weapon.

It was the ultimate long range short range anti-infantry anti-vehicle weapon. It killed everything and it did it well.

It was a completely realistic gun for it's specs.

The problem was it left most other guns redundant in most situations.

At mid-long you could easily counter the sniper,

At mid you could counter the PR, AR, Rocket and Needler,

At short you could stand a chance against a shotgun, less so against a PR, but still easily counter an AR.

The problem is not that it is too powerfull. The problem is it is too versatile.

  • 06.03.2007 11:18 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Your versatility problem is my idea of a solution! H2 & H3B need that versatile weapon to counter all the power weapons. The pistol made power weapons less unstoppable. Since bungie added more power weapons like swords and lasers, a weapon like the H:CE pistol is even more crucial!

  • 06.03.2007 12:07 PM PDT

Let me just repeat myself for the sake of keeping this thread alive….

There seems to be a tension between versatility and over-powerfulness. This begs the question: Is it possible to do both?

That is do say, can we create both a versatile spawn weapon as well as a weapon that isn't overly powerful?

I think this question is flawed. Why should we assume that doing both will make the game fun to play to begin with? Again, we do not seek balance for the sake of balance. We seek balance because we think that it makes the game fun to play.

I reject the premise that games need to be classically balanced in order to be fun to play.

Therefore, I reject the need to create a weapon that isn't too powerful. I would rather use my recourses towards the development of a weapon that can be the ultimate "holdout" weapon, giving the spawning player the fairest shot at using his skill to stay alive.

Ideally this would lead towards the reintroduction of the pistol.

  • 06.22.2007 8:21 AM PDT

If I had a Rocket Launcher...

Shut up and get behind me... Sir!

The cable. I'm going to cut it.

Awesomeness would ensue.

Posted by: Deno458
isn't halo supposed to be challenging?
Not if, as stated before, the title is 'Halo 2', or it's on the consoles.

Honestly, the 'balance' of Halo is a tough subject. Bungie are masters at balancing maps, as most of the maps in Halo CE will show.
However, the games get 'unbalanced' because people don't know how to counter weapons and such.

Seriously, think about it. How easy is it to kill a Banshee? Quite. However, you'll often get called 'Shee Noob' on the PC simply because people don't understand how easy it is to simply kill it with a 'Hog, FRG, or even the Rockets.

As for the M6D, Bungie's description is quite right, in my opinion.

"N00bs hate it, and Pros swear by it. Guess who wins in a fight?"

[Edited on 06.22.2007 11:35 AM PDT]

  • 06.22.2007 11:34 AM PDT

1.Arkham Asylum, 2.Mass Effect, 3.Halo CE, 4.Mass Effect 2, 5.Halo 2, 6.Splinter Cell Double Agent, 7.Gears of War 2, 8.Medievil, 9.Oblivion, 10.Crash Team Racing

How many of you dont have pistol as other weapon with you, not many. Its so safe to keep pistol with you because its so versatile and powerful, then you choose whatever weapons you want as SECONDARY weapon. Pick a shotgun and you are unbeatable at close range and still really god against anything else with pistol, choose rocket and you can destroy vehicles but still you have pistol to defend against everything else. Pistol doesnt have any cons and it is atleast your second choice against everything, sniper usually wins at really long distance but pistol is second best long range weapon, shotgun is almost unbeatable at really close range but pistol is second place if you keep small distance.

Long:
1Sniper
2Pistol
3Plasmarifle
4Plasmapistol
5Rocket
6Needler
7Assaultrifle
8Shotgun

Mid
1Pistol
2Plasmarifle
3Assaultrifle
4Shotgun
5Rocket
6Plasmapistol
7Needler
8Sniper

Close
1Shogun
2.Assaultrifle
3Plasmarifle
4Pistol
5Needler
6Plasmapistol
7Sniper
8Rocket

Average is if you have pistol and shotgun or rifle you are unbeatable

And as someone said i shouldnt be posting here because i dont like Halo1, i like it very much but i try to prevent you making Halo3 as other HaloCE. HaloCE cant really get any better, but Halo2 had much more potential and i hope Halo3 is partly mix from these and partly totally new.

[Edited on 06.23.2007 3:14 AM PDT]

  • 06.23.2007 3:12 AM PDT

They mostly come out at night... mostly...

Posted by: ethanhatami17
When most H1 fans mention the re-introduction of the pistol in H3, we usually get the same objection to our proposal, which states something along the lines of the following: that this overly-powerful weapon wasn't balanced.

But what is it with the “balance”?

To me, the argument shouldn't end with that statement since it is only stating the obvious. As someone who believes the pistol should be re-introduced, I am ready and willing to admit that Halo:CE was an FPS that was clearly imbalanced to the point of freakishness; however, this doesn't necessarily lead one to the coclusion that the game was "flawed" in any way, since what you consider to be a flaw might actually be a fantastic theme to revolve gameplay around to others.

Thus, the more important question than balance is as follows:

"What is the nature of the gameplay when the set of weapons used by the players aren't “balanced” , and are heavily favored towards the use of an overly-powerful mid-range weapon?,like in H1"

Naturally, we should also ask the opposite:

"What is the nature of the gameplay when we omit an overly-powerful mid-range weapon in order to seek a “balance” of weapons?, like in H2, H3beta"

My point: good gameplay is a concept that can exist independent of balanced weapons.

In the end, it is strange to me that so many FPS videogames in development out there that are hell-bent on creating a “balance” in weapons—as if that were an end in itself, and that good gameplay will just magically follow.

*edited for grammar bc i am retarded



Excellent explanation. Balance isn't created by having all the weapons equally matched . That just creates a boring mix of crap. Is there any reason to have a variety of weapons if they are all basically the same?

Balance is created by making everyone start with the best weapon in the game, and then making all the rest of the weapons in the game compliment that weapon. Then everyone is just as good as the next from the start of the game. Then what you've done is created a game where there are no stupid handicaps. Instead you create a balanced game that is fun What game can you think of that did this? HaloCE.

  • 06.23.2007 3:27 PM PDT

Lets also consider the power of the camo powerup when wielding the pistol. If you used the pistol while camo, you become extremely visible and dont go back to invisible for awhile which is why pros drop the pistol for the rocket because of the ultimate camo weapon: assault rifle with the fastest camo time. Try it, shoot with the pistol, sniper, rocket then switch back to the assault rifle. almost instantly camo. This made it a goal to pick up the powerful camo/ rocket combo and cause havoc vs even ppl who are freakin sick with pistol. assault rifle/ sniper camo made u a freakin ninja.

other deadly camo weapons include the plasma rifle and plasma pistol because they camo pretty fast too, and they are just great when u know that the oppositions about ot pick up overshiled as you pick up camo.


The pistol is a great weapon but you lose badly if u only use it the entire game. and the million dollar question is: would halo 1 be balanced without the pistol start? if you think the pistol ruins the game then play aganist a skilled whore (someone who picks up power weapons powerups like crazy). The pistol is a NECESSITY as a starting weapon for halo 1 mp to work as it has been for many successful years.

  • 06.24.2007 7:09 PM PDT

  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • of 3