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Subject: Language use in the Weekly Updates
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Now, first, I'd like to make clear that i know this will sound like a pissy hypocritical whine, but this is an issue that really strikes a chord with me.

I realise that coarse language and an amount of abuse is something that is integral to the bungie community, I even revel in the fact occasionally, and i like how Frankie reflects this in the weekly updates. However i really, really think he needs to step back and rethink his language sometimes. I've noticed it a few times before, but this week's update really does take it too far in my opinion. Again, i know this sounds pissy, but it was a really, really small bit of the update that got on my tits. Specifically, this bit.

Turn it off. We already muted you, you spaz.

In most of the civilised word, the term "spaz" has been viewed as totally offensive for decades, and while it might be in use by 13 year old -blam!-tards who don't know better, its use by the community representitive of a games studio in an officially posted article just stunned me. As I said, that term in particular strikes a chord with my personal life, and I know it will with several others in the community; I believe this issue has been raised in the past on peoples' usage of this term, along with "retard".

I realise this will seem trivial, but really. Is it necessary? I can think of a plethora of more entertaining, more appropriate and more importantly, less offensive words that could have gone in its place (for example, tossmongerer). Again (again) I know this is a small matter, but all I ask is that Frankie, and people in general, stop and think for a few minutes about what they're typing. This isn't a chat room where whatever random filth you're thinking of can spill forth as fast as you think it, this is a forum, sit back, review what you post and we'll all be happier.

  • 06.01.2007 7:25 PM PDT
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Wow... does your mom hover over you while on the computer? The word spaz has been said on children's shows and is not even that offensive.

  • 06.01.2007 7:48 PM PDT
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Posted by: OmNiSci3nT
Wow... does your mom hover over you while on the computer? The word spaz has been said on children's shows and is not even that offensive.


To quote Frankie. Drink some chocolate milk and shut your cretinous noisehole.

When online with americans, i try to refrain from using the word -blam!- (begins in a C, ends in a T, use your imaginations), because they find it stupendously offensive. brits don't, and its in common language almost everywhere. I do expect the same courtest back. I've stated that i find the use of the term offensive, and i know for a fact that a number of others do also, the least you could do is show a little respect for that instead of attempting to deride my opinion with petty insults. You could have raised an argument, for example, about how its a word commonly accepted as normal in the american dialect, but no, an insult will suffice.

I'm beginning to wonder why i even bothered with this.

  • 06.01.2007 7:53 PM PDT
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Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: OmNiSci3nT
Wow... does your mom hover over you while on the computer? The word spaz has been said on children's shows and is not even that offensive.


To quote Frankie. Drink some chocolate milk and shut your cretinous noisehole.

When online with americans, i try to refrain from using the word -blam!- (begins in a C, ends in a T, use your imaginations), because they find it stupendously offensive. brits don't, and its in common language almost everywhere. I do expect the same courtest back. I've stated that i find the use of the term offensive, and i know for a fact that a number of others do also, the least you could do is show a little respect for that instead of attempting to deride my opinion with petty insults. You could have raised an argument, for example, about how its a word commonly accepted as normal in the american dialect, but no, an insult will suffice.

I'm beginning to wonder why i even bothered with this.

How was I insulting you?

Maybe you are just uptight and get offended too easily seeing as though that offended you.

  • 06.01.2007 7:57 PM PDT
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Posted by: OmNiSci3nT
How was I insulting you?


You asked if i was constantly watched over by my mother.

This implies I'm very young, to the extent i have no independent activities, that you're superior to me in that you're able to use this non-offensive term freely and without supervision. Which is general derision of my character, and so the statement can be taken as an insult.

Shall i go on, or are you going to GTFO and stop derailing the point of the thread, which is that the term is offensive, and should never have been used in the first place.

  • 06.01.2007 8:05 PM PDT
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Whatever kid..

Anyways it's fine, the word is commonly used throughout American television and language.

  • 06.01.2007 8:14 PM PDT

.||./

My gamertag is SHADOWRIDERJP.

Almost anything can be offensive to people. If I say I am eating beef jerky (which I am) I could have offended thousands of animal activists.
The fact is "spaz" is not offensive to a large amount of people. If we censor everything people find offensive we might as well censor 50% of our vocabulary.

*The fact that I pulled a percentage out of my ass might offend math teachers!* *The fact that I said ass might offend even more people!!!*
Those are examples of things I said that could offend people. We can't censor everything people find offensive because many people are offended by way to many things.

Also, elmicker, I am in The US and the "C word" doesn't offend as many people as it seems like.

[Edited on 06.01.2007 8:29 PM PDT]

  • 06.01.2007 8:20 PM PDT
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Nobody cares.

This game is rated M for mature. I'm sorry, but the makers can say "Spaz" if they wish. They could probably say the F bomb as well, seeing as Halo is rated M. But the thing is : They won't.

And Spaz is in no means bad at all.

And its a freaking M game. We aren't on the "teletubbies forums". Just because somebodys parents let them play Halo, below 17, doesn't mean that they can't say "Spaz" in the update. I think there are a whole lot more "offensive" comments in Halo 2 Single Player. And XBL? Yeah, well you obviously haven't played that if you are spazing out about "spaz".

  • 06.01.2007 9:20 PM PDT
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We now return to political correctness gone too far: Bungie Edition!

People need thicker skin, please (while I'm sure you will attack me here for being a moderator and thus someone who should be enforcing moderation and calmness), just deal with the fact people aren't going to sugar coat and cater to every offendable person out there.

How do people survive in the world if they get hurt by the word "spaz"?

  • 06.02.2007 1:28 AM PDT

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This is the internet. If you get offended, you're in the wrong place.

  • 06.02.2007 5:38 AM PDT
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With all due respect, grow up.

  • 06.02.2007 5:56 AM PDT
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I think I'm the only one who sees where you're coming from, elmicker... This is not the same as the "f-bomb" which is in common usage. Or ass, ditto. There are swear words, which (really) shouldn't offend anyone playing an M-rated game, and then there are offensive words.

In this case, it was an insult (at idiots playing music into mics (or something)) which is fair enough, everybody's been there, and maybe calling that guy a jackass or a tossmonger would be apt. But I think what elmicker is saying is that 'spaz' isn't really in the same league... it's not a very offensive word in itself to the recipient (unlike say, a racial slur) but it is offensive to those who... Ah, you see what I mean?

As an example, lets say Frankie was discussing people who keep their mics right close to their mouths so when they speak it's all incoherent and blurry. There is a difference between saying "Stop mumbling, you sound like you're eating your microphone you [effing] jackass!" which - by its construction - is not particularly insulting but gets the message across, and "Stop mumbling, you sound like you've got Down's Syndrome!" which doesn't contain any rude words but I think we can all agree, would be ruled more offensive.

In this case I don't find the usage that offensive but I for one can see what he's on about - this is slightly different from the whining about "your mom" jokes and I think containcs a valid concern. Especially as it's coming from elmicker, who can generally give as good as he gets in regards to the trash talk. [:

  • 06.02.2007 7:42 AM PDT
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Posted by: Pezza
We now return to political correctness gone too far: Bungie Edition!

People need thicker skin, please (while I'm sure you will attack me here for being a moderator and thus someone who should be enforcing moderation and calmness), just deal with the fact people aren't going to sugar coat and cater to every offendable person out there.

How do people survive in the world if they get hurt by the word "spaz"?
I wouldn't attack you for being a moderator, if anything, I'd expect people to attack you for being wrong. You don't seem to have seen what he's getting at... A general community member saying that would be unremarkable and forgiveable, but Frankie in a News post saying that = A little edgy, maybe?

There's thick skin, and then there are boundaries - there's political correctness, and there is poor choice of words. Would Frankie have used the word "retard"?

Basically, the word is offensive in Britain. In fact, pretty much the whole Wikipedia article for "Spastic" is given over to the fact that British people find it offensive and Americans don't... Frankie's a Brit by birth and I guess it's just surprising that he wouldn't know that. :\

  • 06.02.2007 8:06 AM PDT
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I looked at wikipedia and the term is mildly offensive in the UK....

However Frankie isn't going to change that for one small part of the world(metaphor, I'm not trying to make it look like America is all powerful). He probably didn't know of it's offensiveness since he is an american/scottish guy. Spaz in America is known as a synonym from clumsiness or excessive energy. And that really isn't offensive, and that's just what Frankie meant.

Don't say Frankie should've known the other definition, going in that specific is just like saying "you have to know everything or everyone will hate you".

Saint beat me too it.

[Edited on 06.02.2007 8:08 AM PDT]

  • 06.02.2007 8:07 AM PDT
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The OP even admitted that he says the word c.unt (just visual aid, if bannable please edit) a lot in the UK.

  • 06.02.2007 10:25 AM PDT
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Location: Outlaws' Summit.

As Saint and Halofighter said, I think there's a conflict here between different cultures.

In the UK, "spaz" is apparently offensive. Here in the US though, "spaz" just means...........you know 'weird,' 'strange,' 'abnormal......'

I mean, you do hear people in the US telling each other to "stop spazzing out" or something of the sort.

Anyway, the fact that this site and game are more associated with America (simply because it was made here, most played here, advertised here, etc, etc) this particular matter wouldn't be of concern to the administration. Not to say the UK's opinion doesn't matter. But you have to understand that most of the people on this site don't know what your interpretation of certain words mean.

[Edited on 06.02.2007 10:27 AM PDT]

  • 06.02.2007 10:26 AM PDT
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Posted by: OmNiSci3nT
The OP even admitted that he says the c-word a lot in the UK.
...so? o.o

  • 06.02.2007 10:27 AM PDT
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Posted by: Saint
Posted by: OmNiSci3nT
The OP even admitted that he says the c-word a lot in the UK.
...so? o.o

So isn't he being a little hypocritical...

  • 06.02.2007 10:31 AM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

If your offended by the word Spaz then I am very sorry.

If you arnt a Spaz then statment wasnt directed at you so dont be upset about it.

I doubt Frankie sat there thinking of ways to hurt people's feelings. It was a joke ment for laughs!

  • 06.02.2007 10:39 AM PDT
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My friend, you would not tell with ſuch high zeſt
To children ardent for ſome deſperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum eſt
Pro patria mori.

Spaz = Spastic = Offensive term for someone with cerebral palsy and many other mental disabilities.

I don't know, I didn't pick up on it at the time and my tolerance for offensive language is fairly high. Still the word is faux pas on the British and Irish islands. For comparison, I've been chastised for using the shortened version of the word Japanese before, having been told it's offensive to Americans [but not so much for English]; so now I don't use it where they can read or hear it anymore. As a general rule, unless no suitable alternative word exists in your dialect of English, it's usually best to just change the word and be done with it. "Spaz" to idiot. Jap to Japanese. Nobody goes unhappy and a few people learn something they didn't about the use of their language elsewhere.

Don't say Frankie should've known the other definition, going in that specific is just like saying "you have to know everything or everyone will hate you".
Actually I thought he was Scottish... I'd be very surprised if he didn't know what the word meant in his native country. Maybe he left before the word was ditched by polite society, I don't know. I don't think he'd have consciously used the word intending to cause offence though. An unfortunate error of memory I'd say.


We now return to political correctness gone too far: Bungie Edition!

People need thicker skin, please (while I'm sure you will attack me here for being a moderator and thus someone who should be enforcing moderation and calmness), just deal with the fact people aren't going to sugar coat and cater to every offendable person out there.

How do people survive in the world if they get hurt by the word "spaz"?


I don't know, had the country roles been reversed I wonder how many people here would be telling the OP to grow up or what-have-you. I just don't think we need to turn this into something that's needlessly antagonistic. It's probably 30 seconds worth of work to edit out the word and chalk it to experience; especially since nobody thinks Frankie or Bungie by proxy actually intended to use that word for its English meaning.


[Edited on 06.02.2007 10:54 AM PDT]

  • 06.02.2007 10:46 AM PDT

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I think you're just complaining to complain.

Over in America, the word "Spaz" to me, has always meant someone who is just really hyper active. I'm sure that's what it means to Frankie as well. I've never known that word to mean someone with cerebral palsy. That's completely foreign to me, and probably to a lot of us.

Besides, when you talk about offensive word usage, you should avoid saying Again, i know this sounds pissy, but it was a really, really small bit of the update that got on my tits. in the same post..

  • 06.02.2007 11:36 AM PDT
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My friend, you would not tell with ſuch high zeſt
To children ardent for ſome deſperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum eſt
Pro patria mori.

Posted by: SS_Zag1
I think you're just complaining to complain.

Over in America, the word "Spaz" to me, has always meant someone who is just really hyper active. I'm sure that's what it means to Frankie as well. I've never known that word to mean someone with cerebral palsy. That's completely foreign to me, and probably to a lot of us.

Besides, when you talk about offensive word usage, you should avoid saying Again, i know this sounds pissy, but it was a really, really small bit of the update that got on my tits. in the same post..


The point is that it does mean that to English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish and Manx people who account for 66 million - hardly a minority. I'd presume that the above combined count for the second largest group of Bungie.net users. I don't think it's too much for those concerned to assume that a major developer like Bungie be respectful of sensitivities among their global consumerbase, and indeed I'd be very surprised if the offending word weren't edited out as soon as someone able to do so reads this.

Look, a public figure can curse and swear all they like in out of the private eye; effing and blinding all day long as long. But should that person use a racial slur or a derogatory comment toward a vulnerable group of people - even in private - they're more often than not deep in the kharsie, so to speak.

[Edited on 06.02.2007 12:19 PM PDT]

  • 06.02.2007 12:18 PM PDT
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Besides, when you talk about offensive word usage, you should avoid saying Again, i know this sounds pissy, but it was a really, really small bit of the update that got on my tits. in the same post..

This has already been pointed out, and Saint has been kind enough to beat me to explaining that there's a difference between coarse and generally uncouth language (which i litter my language with constantly), and truly offensive language. This includes words such as "spaz" "retard" and whatever racist and derogatory terms you can thing of. You'll be struggling alot to find me ever using those words. Insulting someone with the words spaz and retard is exactly the same as saying "I hate you because you have cerebral palsy." Which is absolutely unnacceptable.


Over in America, the word "Spaz" to me, has always meant someone who is just really hyper active. I'm sure that's what it means to Frankie as well. I've never known that word to mean someone with cerebral palsy. That's completely foreign to me, and probably to a lot of us.

I will be very surprised if this is the case with Frankie. He was born in scotland and travels regularly to europe on bungie business. He's a community representative and has been a member of the gaming press, he should know better than to use such an un-PC term as "spaz".


I think you're just complaining to complain.

No, as i said, this issue in particular strikes a personal chord with me, i noticed it as soon as i read it and i am disappointed that i was the only one to.

  • 06.02.2007 12:34 PM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

Its ok that the bungie members didnt light torches and ask for Frankies head over this. Most people on bungie who hgave been here more then a week know a joke when they see it. Please dont let this hinder your daily bungie usage.

It was an attack on the jerks of Xbox live and we all know it.

[Edited on 06.02.2007 12:44 PM PDT]

  • 06.02.2007 12:43 PM PDT
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Posted by: EAGLES5
It was an attack on the jerks of Xbox live and we all know it.


We do, but the language used was apalling.

  • 06.02.2007 1:06 PM PDT

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