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Subject: Language use in the Weekly Updates

A big part to success in Halo 3 or and Halo game is not getting frustrated when you feel you've been killed unjustly. Stay solid, and realize that its easier for you to come back when the other guys cant control their anger and frustration. Its hard to aim when your an emotional wreck :)

I think your making a big deal out of nothing and your grasping for attention. He didn't use any sort of vulgar language, nothing crude, and nothing racial. This was nothing you had to complain about, and I find it completely absurd that you even attempted to cause a problem with it. Worry about more important things. Im sorry if this was the downfall of your day, but you need to suck it up.

  • 06.02.2007 1:21 PM PDT

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Oh, Fragula, I'm not saying it shouldn't be edited, it's just that I don't think Frankie intentionally threw out a derogatory term like that. There's plenty of offensive words other countries have that America wouldn't think of as all that offensive at all, and vice versa.

I know lots of people who wouldn't connect the word 'spaz' with the definition you guys are saying it has.
Just an accident, I suppose.

It's like the dove in "Mars Attacks!".

  • 06.02.2007 1:25 PM PDT

.||./

My gamertag is SHADOWRIDERJP.

The thing is words are words. That it is it. I never knew spaz meant anything to do with a disability. I think there is just some conflicting cultures here. The word "retard" is very common and arguably the most common insult here in the States. Here it offends only parents who have kids with the disability. Teachers do not care if we use it in school.

The language use might be apalling to you, but here it is an everyday word. If we limit what if offensive to the UK or USA it is unfair to what other countries think is offensive. If we limit everything that is offensive to different cultures there won't be much to talk about.

  • 06.02.2007 1:37 PM PDT

the word "spaz" isnt even offensive,
Here is the defenitions's of spaz
–noun Slang. 1. a grotesquely awkward person.
2. an eccentric person.

I am shocked that somebody even finds that word offensive... Its not even an offensive word...

  • 06.02.2007 1:38 PM PDT
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What is going on? 'Spaz' isnt offensive in Scotland. Maybe to one or two politcally correct treehugger types but in general it just has the same meaning as 'Retard' over here and yeah I wouldnt say it to a disabled guy but it has more than one meaning. It's generally used to insult someone for being slow or just a plain idiot. If you get offended who cares? I'd say the word 'Retard' was more offending and I do believe it is mentioned in the original post here...

  • 06.02.2007 2:00 PM PDT

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There are several words which will take on offensive connotations in some parts of the world, and be considered perfectly harmless in the U.S (which is where several of us bungie posters reside). Unfortunately, Frankie is in the video-game industry, and most bungie employees don't have time to become linguists.

If it offends you, then ignore it and realize that it wasn't meant to be used in an offensive way. Don't expect bungie to cater to every indivdual who checks out their sites.

  • 06.02.2007 2:07 PM PDT
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Posted by: DIGGDOUG
What is going on? 'Spaz' isnt offensive in Scotland. Maybe to one or two politcally correct treehugger types but in general it just has the same meaning as 'Retard' over here...


Yeah, and had he said that, i'd probably have made the same post. The fact that the posters here might not find it offensive is immaterial. Chances are, not one of you have been affected by the subject matter at hand. That term, to many is offensive, all i ask is that people think about what they're posting.

Posted by: mediocresniper
If it offends you, then ignore it and realize that it wasn't meant to be used in an offensive way.


It was used as an insult, as such it is used in an offensive manner, so carries every negative connotation associated with it, in this case, the insulting of "inferior" sufferers of cerebral palsy. So no, its a bit hard to ignore.

[Edited on 06.02.2007 2:43 PM PDT]

  • 06.02.2007 2:41 PM PDT

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☼► The Select Few Who Will Leave Their Guts on the Battle-field... and jump feet first into hell!!! ◄☼


If you want to be a part of one of the greatest and most active communities in the seventh column, come here. You will thank me later.

It was used as an insult, as such it is used in an offensive manner, so carries every negative connotation associated with it, in this case, the insulting of "inferior" sufferers of cerebral palsy. So no, its a bit hard to ignore.
Frankie's updates are meant to inform, not insult. Where you got such an idea is beyond me.

Don't put words in his mouth.

[Edited on 06.02.2007 3:17 PM PDT]

  • 06.02.2007 3:16 PM PDT
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Posted by: mediocresniper
Don't put words in his mouth.


Words in his mouth?

The sentence where the term is featured is directed as an insult against the "spastics" who spam their mics. Use of the term "spastic" as an insult immediately shows that you think of all "spastics" (sufferers of cerebral palsy, among other things) as negative, as inferior, so use of the term as such is inexcusable.

  • 06.02.2007 3:35 PM PDT
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Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: mediocresniper
Frankie's updates are meant to inform, not insult. Where you got such an idea is beyond me.

Hopefully you're being sarcastic. If not, allow me to enlighten you. Simply point out where there's any "informing" going on in these quotes:

Posted by: Frankie
Drink some chocolate milk and shut your cretinous noisehole

Posted by: Frankie
We already muted you, you spaz.

Posted by: Frankie
Stop it. I hate you.

Posted by: Frankie
So now you’re just a sad idiot

Posted by: Frankie
Maybe a relative will smack you or get you the help you need.

Posted by: Frankie
Just quit being a moron.

Now look, these things don't really bother me -- I have a thick skin and I know when an insult is not directed at me. But please, mediocresniper -- it is ignorant to say that no trash talking occurs in Frankie's writings, and that where anyone could get such an idea is "beyond you."

  • 06.02.2007 4:12 PM PDT
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I'm sure saying "Hello" will mean some -blam!- in some country. If you stick your tongue out at somebody in Bulgaria, its a friendly greeting. Not so much in America. This is really an "American Game", and Frankie lives in America. So he has to use "American" terms. Obviously, no matter what the hell he does, there is probably some obscure dialect, or language, or culture, where he is being "insulting". I'm sure if you flip somebody off in some country: Its a good thing. But Frankie can't change that in the weekly updates.

  • 06.02.2007 4:51 PM PDT
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Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: EAGLES5
It was an attack on the jerks of Xbox live and we all know it.


We do, but the language used was apalling.


You obviously can't play XBL. If you go this crazy about "Spaz" you can't even go near XBL. You know why? Because you will hear things 100* more offensive, on XBL.

It is a -blam!- M game. 17+. Little kids aren't supposed to be playing it. So it doesn't matter. Frankie could call them -blam!-s, or drop F-Bombs, and it wouldn't matter. Its an M game. Now obviously, he wouldn't do that, as we don't see that in Halo itself. But other words? That are probably used in Halo? Nope. And he can't shield your innocent little eyes, from langauge that is common place, in the country this website originates from. And it isn't a problem if he swears in an update. at all. Or does something that is offensive, to some other culture. You know its offensive to "get straight down to business", or "put your feet up" in Arabian culture? Sorry, but Frankie doesn't look around for every single Faux Paus in every single culture.

  • 06.02.2007 4:55 PM PDT
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Posted by: xfire grunt
...and Frankie lives in America...


He's Scottish by birth. He should know fine well what the term "spastic" means.

But Frankie can't change that in the weekly updates.

No, but he could -blam!- proof read his own article. He's a former member of the gaming press, born in scotland, working for the biggest software company in existence, it doesnt take much effort to avoid using such offensive terms. Again, all i ask is that people thing about what they're posting before they post it.

  • 06.02.2007 5:03 PM PDT
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Elm, I see no problem with the language used in the update. Since you seem to feel continually upset with it, thats a problem you will have to work out with yourself. From reading the other posts I really don't see any reason why Frankie should change or apologize for his language.

I'm sure you know, but let me remind you as some others have; the internet is quite frankly the only place where people can say pretty much anything they want without being punished for it. Bungie has restriction as to what members can and cannot say, Frankie's use of words in the weekly update were in no way meant to offend Spastic people, just like when you use the word "C**t." You are using it loosely, not necessarily to offend people. Since the word is rooted from the name of the female organ, and has evolved into just a vulgar insult, it would be like saying thats g.ay. Your not necessarily saying someone is -blam!--blam!-. I'ts just a negative term to offend a person.

Like alot of threads, members have gone very deep into what something said may mean. Frankie said Spaz. I'm pretty sure he wasn't thinking that by saying spaz it would cause a thread to be created because of its possible offensive meaning. Frankie works, therefore hes busy...on H3, a highly demanded game, he takes his time out of the day to write the weekly updates, its not like he is thinking of the future consequences of every word he writes.

I say, just let it go. There are far more worse and irresponsible members you can attack for there vulgarity, rather than Frankie.

oh and Again, all i ask is that people thing about what they're posting before they post it. I think thing should be think. =]



[Edited on 06.02.2007 6:40 PM PDT]

  • 06.02.2007 6:37 PM PDT
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It means "spastic" in my country as well, so country roles haven't impacted upon my perception in the way you think, I still think people need to get thicker skin.

I hate political correctness when it reaches this height, absolutely hate it.

  • 06.02.2007 7:09 PM PDT
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Posted by: x Foman123 x
Posted by: Frankie
Drink some chocolate milk and shut your cretinous noisehole

Posted by: Frankie
We already muted you, you spaz.

Posted by: Frankie
Stop it. I hate you.

Posted by: Frankie
So now you’re just a sad idiot

Posted by: Frankie
Maybe a relative will smack you or get you the help you need.

Posted by: Frankie
Just quit being a moron.

I'm not so offended by Frankie's use of 'spaz' as an insult as I am by the insults (and shear amount of them) in the first place. I mean sure, I'm all for poking fun at people who deserve it and what not, but when it crosses the line from poking fun to blatant insults, I get a bit offended. I mean, one insult might have (and has) slipped by me from time to time, and that's okay; but looking at Foman's post, and the Weekly Update itself, it's a bit upsetting.

  • 06.02.2007 7:09 PM PDT
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Posted by: Pezza
It means "spastic" in my country as well, so country roles haven't impacted upon my perception in the way you think, I still think people need to get thicker skin.

I hate political correctness when it reaches this height, absolutely hate it.


Political correctness? Get real.

Its common courtest and respect. You wouldnt walk up to a person with cerebral palsy in the street and go "You're a spaz, so shut up," as that's just beyond the pale and unnacceptable offensive.

So why, may i ask, is it acceptable to say that to someone who isn't suffering from cerebral palsy? with thethe british version of the word, it carries exactly the same meaning. You're saying that this person is (like) a spastic; that they're mentally and physically disabled, so automatically inferior to you, so should shut up.

There's a reason some insults are considered too offensive and un-PC, and usually, its a pretty good one.


Edit: As a last though, i'm off to bed. I'd like a mod to leave this open for an hour or two, then lock it, unless something earth-shatteringly enlightening comes along, as we've frankly done this to death, both in here and IRC. We've moved away from the topic at hand, which was Frankie's use of a term that he knows would be immediately seen as offensive to a large number of people, which, with him as Bungie's public face, sets the standard for the communtuiy and Bungie's opinions on the matter. Rather, we've delved into the pits of people's lack of respect for others' opinions, not to mention lack of respect for other people. The faster this thread dies, the better, tbh.

[Edited on 06.02.2007 7:53 PM PDT]

  • 06.02.2007 7:49 PM PDT
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Posted by: elmicker
Political correctness? Get real.

Its common courtest and respect. You wouldnt walk up to a person with cerebral palsy in the street and go "You're a spaz, so shut up," as that's just beyond the pale and unnacceptable offensive.

So why, may i ask, is it acceptable to say that to someone who isn't suffering from cerebral palsy? with thethe british version of the word, it carries exactly the same meaning. You're saying that this person is (like) a spastic; that they're mentally and physically disabled, so automatically inferior to you, so should shut up.
It means the same thing here, I know what it means, don't bother explaining it to me. I know people with CP, my uncle has it, I'm not offended because, you know why? Because it wasn't used in the context of undermining the opinion of someone with a mental disability, it was used to tell someone who was acting like an idiot to shut up.

People are overly sensitive. It's just a word, used in a context to make people who are acting foolishly to realise how childish and stupid they are being. If you can't deal with that, I feel truely sorry for you.

  • 06.02.2007 8:02 PM PDT

SB-117

People all over the world will be offended by everything under the sun. Something that's terrible to one person may cause another person to laugh so heartily, they find themselves in need of a change of underwear.

The update may rub some people the wrong way, but others may be fine with it. Personally, I've known many amazing people who are disabled, but I didn't even think twice about this update's "problem" due to the context it was written in. Please remember that it is a joke intended to be read by americans (who don't the interpret the word in the same way).

o Does being offended by a loosely used, ambiguous slur make the offender a heartless and "apalling" human being who should "-blam!- proof read" everything they write in future? -blam!- No!

o Does this thread give me a migraine? Yes.

You can say Frankie's comment could be deemed offensive, but to demand that something must be censored (and that Frankie -blam!-ed things up big time) is stretching that liberty just a bit.

Posted by: elmicker
which was Frankie's use of a term that he knows would be immediately seen as offensive to a large number of people, which, with him as Bungie's public face, sets the standard for the communtuiy and Bungie's opinions on the matter. Rather, we've delved into the pits of people's lack of respect for others' opinions, not to mention lack of respect for other people. The faster this thread dies, the better, tbh.

You repeatedly voice your disgust with the update and you belittle the opinion of anyone who didn't find themselves compelled to tell Frankie how he should do his job; yet in the same breath you preach about people's lack of respect and how the topic is going no-where because of closed-mindedness. Would you be offended if I found that ironic?

I don't believe you to be "wrong" for taking offence to it (how is that even possible?), and I don't think the insult was "right" either. I simply think you got a little too pissy because of it. Frankie seems like a cool person; I'm sure he never meant to hurt anyone, only entertain them (well... that and brainwash us into buying that HaloClix game). Hopefully, when you wake up you'll be calmed down a little more, enough to not disregard anything that isn't 100% agreement.

[Edited on 06.02.2007 9:21 PM PDT]

  • 06.02.2007 8:19 PM PDT

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If thats offensive, can't wait until people start attacking the ToU.

Bungie controls everything. You have no rights. Play nice.

Telling people that they have no rights is a bad thing because being on the interwebs means you should have all the rights as the real world, right? [/sarcasm]


No it should not be retracted as it is not that offensive.

  • 06.02.2007 8:25 PM PDT
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It's the internet. Get over it because I'm sure as hell no one is going to care 3 months down the road.

  • 06.02.2007 8:39 PM PDT

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