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Subject: OK, enough is enough...XP Reconfiguration
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THE PROBLEM
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Alright I want to start off by saying the level system is amazing for the winning team. It works great for level by level XP differential. However it is completely unfair to the losing team. How? Well I have experienced it first hand. I have a 19 in TS in 39 games, I have won 28. Now you might think that this is a good record. However it really is a show of how bad the XP system works. I have lost 11 games, in each and every single game I lose because of my teammates (and if you don't believe me try to find a game where I lose, go negative, and get worse then 5th, you won't). Now this isn't just a problem in TS, for it can be experience in every ranked playlist (maybe no the H2Challenge). Also I am not just saying this for personal concern, although I do have personal feelings stated here. For I know most people agree with this.

HOW TO FIX IT
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This can easily be fixed by Bungie releasing a quick update that gives XP (not a win) to the fifth place finisher who meets the criteria. This could be changed in Team Skirmish, and other skirmish gametypes. In skirmish gametypes, it could go to the player who gets the most amount of flag saves, scores, etc.


Go ahead discuss.

[Edited on 06.19.2007 3:04 PM PDT]

  • 06.19.2007 2:24 PM PDT
Subject: OK, enough is enough.
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ADDRESSING REPLYS
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This is where I will address what you say about it (criticism and questions).

1) XP means experience, experience points to be precise. It is how we level up in this game. Posted by: Demerzel
Sorry, what's XP?
Must've missed that memo >: v (

2) This could be changed in Team Skirmish, and other skirmish gametypes. In skirmish gametypes, it could go to the player who gets the most amount of flag saves, scores, etc. Also "XP Boosting would be impossible, because if the losers cannot all go postives and get the losing experience. Posted by: supavillainaire
This is not thought out correctly. Your "fix" would allow easy xp boosting where everyone in a game can get xp. Also in any objective games going positive doesnt mean you did anything to help your team.

Here is the easy "fix". Get a team that you trust and can depend on. That way you shouldnt lose as many games.

3) Yes, I figured someone would post this. What about the guy who just goes in by himself, with your logic why not just change the minimum to three in a party for team games. Posted by: TwoFaced1680
There is nothing wrong with the system. The playlist is called Team Skirmish. You win as a team you lose as a team. Your experience should reflect this. No fix needed, it's working perfectly. If you want to level up based on your personal skill then play rumble pit...wait that's unranked now isn't it :)

4) I agree, for my solution is a quick fix for H2, this could be implemented in H3 (not hit percentage though). Posted by: Demerzel
I don't think that just anybody who goes positive on the losing team should gain experience. It should still depend more on criteria like hit percentage, assists, etc.

5) Yes, I figured someone would post this. What about the guy who just goes in by himself, with your logic why not just change the minimum to three in a party for team games. Posted by: TwoFaced1680
There is nothing wrong with the system. The playlist is called Team Skirmish. You win as a team you lose as a team. Your experience should reflect this. No fix needed, it's working perfectly. If you want to level up based on your personal skill then play rumble pit...wait that's unranked now isn't it :)


[Edited on 06.19.2007 3:03 PM PDT]

  • 06.19.2007 2:36 PM PDT
Subject: OK, enough is enough...XP Reconfiguration

Sorry, what's XP?

Must've missed that memo >: v (

  • 06.19.2007 2:40 PM PDT
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experience, experience points.

  • 06.19.2007 2:40 PM PDT
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This is not thought out correctly. Your "fix" would allow easy xp boosting where everyone in a game can get xp. Also in any objective games going positive doesnt mean you did anything to help your team.

Here is the easy "fix". Get a team that you trust and can depend on. That way you shouldnt lose as many games.

  • 06.19.2007 2:41 PM PDT

I don't think that just anybody who goes positive on the losing team should gain experience. It should still depend more on criteria like hit percentage, assists, etc.

  • 06.19.2007 2:45 PM PDT

There is nothing wrong with the system. The playlist is called Team Slayer. You win as a team you lose as a team. Your experience should reflect this. No fix needed, it's working perfectly. If you want to level up based on your personal skill then play rumble pit...wait that's unranked now isn't it :)

[Edited on 06.19.2007 2:51 PM PDT]

  • 06.19.2007 2:46 PM PDT
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I utterly disagree. Also I am talking about all playlists. My friends don't like Team Slayer. We play Hardcore together.

Here is a question for you: Do you think it is fair for someone to have two teammates quit and go positive 9 with 30 plus kills, get no experience and a loss?

  • 06.19.2007 2:53 PM PDT
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Posted by: I ToXiC ChAoS I
I utterly disagree. Also I am talking about all playlists. My friends don't like Team Slayer. We play Hardcore together.

Here is a question for you: Do you think it is fair for someone to have two teammates quit and go positive 9 with 30 plus kills, get no experience and a loss?

Yes i think its fair.Like i said above get a team that you trust and can depend on. That way you wont have quitters.

Think for five seconds. If anyone on the losing team that goes positive gets xp, how many different ways can you make it so everyone in the game can get xp?
If the answer is more than 0 your idea fails. Not being mean, its just the way it is. I know i can count multiple ways in every format. Your idea fails.

Edit: i just looked at the game you posted. Maybe you should be more mad at the guy who didnt quit.

[Edited on 06.19.2007 3:02 PM PDT]

  • 06.19.2007 2:59 PM PDT
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Posted by: supavillainaire
Posted by: I ToXiC ChAoS I
I utterly disagree. Also I am talking about all playlists. My friends don't like Team Slayer. We play Hardcore together.

Here is a question for you: Do you think it is fair for someone to have two teammates quit and go positive 9 with 30 plus kills, get no experience and a loss?

Yes i think its fair.Like i said above get a team that you trust and can depend on. That way you wont have quitters.

Think for five seconds. If anyone on the losing team that goes positive gets xp, how many different ways can you make it so everyone in the game can get xp?
If the answer is more than 0 your idea fails. Not being mean, its just the way it is. I know i can count multiple ways in every format. Your idea fails.

In a playlist where you can join alone why are you thinking only of teams? Also to stop multiple losers from getting XP, it could go to the best player on the losing team if he meets the criteria.

[Edited on 06.19.2007 3:02 PM PDT]

  • 06.19.2007 3:00 PM PDT
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Posted by: I ToXiC ChAoS I
Posted by: supavillainaire
Posted by: I ToXiC ChAoS I
I utterly disagree. Also I am talking about all playlists. My friends don't like Team Slayer. We play Hardcore together.

Here is a question for you: Do you think it is fair for someone to have two teammates quit and go positive 9 with 30 plus kills, get no experience and a loss?

Yes i think its fair.Like i said above get a team that you trust and can depend on. That way you wont have quitters.

Think for five seconds. If anyone on the losing team that goes positive gets xp, how many different ways can you make it so everyone in the game can get xp?
If the answer is more than 0 your idea fails. Not being mean, its just the way it is. I know i can count multiple ways in every format. Your idea fails.

In a playlist where you can join alone why are you thinking only of teams? Also to stop multiple losers from getting XP, it could go to the best player on the losing team if he meets the criteria.

I am think of teams beacause of the name of the format. TEAM slayer, TEAM skirmish, TEAM hardcore. If your team loses, your TEAM loses. Plain and simple. If you dont understand that i dont really know what to say.

  • 06.19.2007 3:04 PM PDT
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Posted by: supavillainaire
Posted by: I ToXiC ChAoS I
Posted by: supavillainaire
Posted by: I ToXiC ChAoS I
I utterly disagree. Also I am talking about all playlists. My friends don't like Team Slayer. We play Hardcore together.

Here is a question for you: Do you think it is fair for someone to have two teammates quit and go positive 9 with 30 plus kills, get no experience and a loss?

Yes i think its fair.Like i said above get a team that you trust and can depend on. That way you wont have quitters.

Think for five seconds. If anyone on the losing team that goes positive gets xp, how many different ways can you make it so everyone in the game can get xp?
If the answer is more than 0 your idea fails. Not being mean, its just the way it is. I know i can count multiple ways in every format. Your idea fails.

In a playlist where you can join alone why are you thinking only of teams? Also to stop multiple losers from getting XP, it could go to the best player on the losing team if he meets the criteria.

I am think of teams beacause of the name of the format. TEAM slayer, TEAM skirmish, TEAM hardcore. If your team loses, your TEAM loses. Plain and simple. If you dont understand that i dont really know what to say.

There are individuals within teams. Could a moderator comment on this?

  • 06.19.2007 3:05 PM PDT

What about the people that go in alone?!?! I'm one of them. It's a team based playlist. I don't care if you go in alone, my statement is still correct. You win as a team and you lose as a team. Let's all focus on that keyword for a second...team. The truth is if you should be at a higher rank then you'll perform much better at your current rank. This means you'll win statistically more often then someone who is really at that level because your skill will tip the balance. The end result is an increase in experience over time and your level goes up until you no longer can outplay everyone. At this point you have "leveled out".

Is the system perfect...No. It's based on a linear progression. As a result it takes a little while to find your level. The new system for Halo 3 will be much better but Halo 2's will not be changing. However, I believe Halo 3 will still be based on the result of the Team for team based playlists and this is how it always should be. Individuals should not be rewarded for "individual performance" in team games.

[Edited on 06.19.2007 3:06 PM PDT]

  • 06.19.2007 3:05 PM PDT
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I am not talking about giving a loser a win, but I am talking about giving someone whho performs above there level experience towards their rank. For that is what rank is--a skill representation, not a win/loss representation.

  • 06.19.2007 3:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: I ToXiC ChAoS I
Posted by: supavillainaire
Posted by: I ToXiC ChAoS I
Posted by: supavillainaire
Posted by: I ToXiC ChAoS I
I utterly disagree. Also I am talking about all playlists. My friends don't like Team Slayer. We play Hardcore together.

Here is a question for you: Do you think it is fair for someone to have two teammates quit and go positive 9 with 30 plus kills, get no experience and a loss?

Yes i think its fair.Like i said above get a team that you trust and can depend on. That way you wont have quitters.

Think for five seconds. If anyone on the losing team that goes positive gets xp, how many different ways can you make it so everyone in the game can get xp?
If the answer is more than 0 your idea fails. Not being mean, its just the way it is. I know i can count multiple ways in every format. Your idea fails.

In a playlist where you can join alone why are you thinking only of teams? Also to stop multiple losers from getting XP, it could go to the best player on the losing team if he meets the criteria.

I am think of teams beacause of the name of the format. TEAM slayer, TEAM skirmish, TEAM hardcore. If your team loses, your TEAM loses. Plain and simple. If you dont understand that i dont really know what to say.

There are individuals within teams. Could a moderator comment on this?

You are correct. There are individuals within teams, but the win will go to the best team not the best individual. No one should be awarded for there individual play in a team environment. If you are having trouble in a team playlist, put together a team.

  • 06.19.2007 3:09 PM PDT
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Posted by: I ToXiC ChAoS I
I am not talking about giving a loser a win, but I am talking about giving someone whho performs above there level experience towards their rank. For that is what rank is--a skill representation, not a win/loss representation.

Why do you think someone on the losing team performed "above" their level?

  • 06.19.2007 3:11 PM PDT
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I AM NOT SAYING GIVE A LOSER A WIN.

  • 06.19.2007 3:11 PM PDT
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EXAMPLE
Posted by: supavillainaire
Why do you think someone on the losing team performed "above" their level?


[Edited on 06.19.2007 3:13 PM PDT]

  • 06.19.2007 3:12 PM PDT
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Do you not realize this backs up what we have been saying? It is a team event. You lost. You lost Xp. If your team played as a team you probally wouldnt have lost that game. Just because you did well does not mean you should get a bonus. Next time get some players who will not quit out on you.

  • 06.19.2007 3:15 PM PDT
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From Fall of Reach:

"Remember this: you don't win unless your team wins. One person winning at the expense of the group means that you lose." - CPO Mendez

  • 06.19.2007 3:18 PM PDT
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*Reads bold above and doesn't feel like repeating*

  • 06.19.2007 3:20 PM PDT
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I took another look at your "example". You rank is for team play. Your rank was a 18. The lowest in the game. Everyone on the other team is higher ranked. Your team lost. As by your reasoning is to be expected because of rank. If your the lowest ranked and lost to higher ranks let me ask you again, what makes you thing you performed "above" your rank?

  • 06.19.2007 3:21 PM PDT
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Posted by: I ToXiC ChAoS I
*Reads bold above and doesn't feel like repeating*

You cant give one reason why a person on the losing team should earn xp.

  • 06.19.2007 3:24 PM PDT
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...Ok, let me put it another way

If you are a good enough player to go into slayer and go positive every game, then you are a good enough player to assist your lesser skilled teammates by calling out positions, watching their backs, and supporting them. Just because you, for who knows what reason, choose to go into MM alone doesn't mean that you aren't responsible for your teammates. Don't just go about your own business and expect them to keep up with you. Help them to help yourself.

  • 06.19.2007 3:24 PM PDT
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I hate to probably get blacklisted but, kid shut up your a retard. I have given multiple reasons why my idea is right and your just a stubborn -blam!-. Kid, your either a five year old that cannot realize he is wrong, or your an idiotic kid who gives posts without reading anything. READ THE FIRST POST AND SAY THAT AGAIN. Posted by: supavillainaire
Posted by: I ToXiC ChAoS I
*Reads bold above and doesn't feel like repeating*

You cant give one reason why a person on the losing team should earn xp.


[Edited on 06.19.2007 3:29 PM PDT]

  • 06.19.2007 3:27 PM PDT

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