Bungie.net Community
This topic has moved here: Subject: Racist Gamertags and Symbols
  • Subject: Racist Gamertags and Symbols
Subject: Racist Gamertags and Symbols

Why do Bungie and Microsoft have a concerted, public effort to ban players for cheats and modding, but not for racist behavior? Yesterday, I was teamed with a player who had the gamertag NSL HatesNi**s (note that the "**"s were actually the letter "g"). This is not uncommon. Further, it has been literally years now that gamers have been creating racist symbols by manipulating different shapes -- particularly those that make an obvious likeness to a -blam!- hood.

Searching for various racist tags on bungie.net always comes up with multiple results. And while it's true that they have often been shut down or abandoned, why is it that the history of such offensive terms is not purged from the database entirely? It is really appropriate to search a site owned by Microsoft and find multiple variants of words like "Ni**er” Killer", "Coon Hater", or “Jew Killer”? Further, even when tags are banned or abandoned, it is clear from the history that those players were allowed to play with such tags unrestricted for weeks or even months.

What's clear to me is that if Microsoft took racism as seriously as it does modding, there would be some serious (and, frankly, expedient and cheap) development to ban even the creation of such tags. Clearly, if someone can create a name today that includes "Hates Ni**s" then no such work has been done, or at least it has not been taken seriously enough.

How about a public "Racist Hammer" campaign with even half the enthusiasm of the Banhammer? The banhammer exists because MS knows that cheats and mods could ruin the online ecosystem in which it has built a considerable lead against the competition. It needs to know that the proliferation of racism, from a PR standpoint -- if not a moral one, is an equal or even bigger threat. So bring out the big guns, talk about this issue publicly, and let gamers know that there will be serious consequences. Stop them from making racist tags and symbols in the first place, immediately ban accounts that get through the cracks (to really put the fear of God in these people, ban the actual console by serial number). There is an email set up for Halo cheats -- but why is there not a similar email for racism or a phone "hot line" to expedite such reporting?

Microsoft could fix this issue in a few months if it really made the effort. Bungie should be more upset that Halo 2 symbols are being used to make -blam!- hoods than it is about cheating and mods. And, if you already are, then you should speak about it publicly and know what actions you are taking.

So what is holding you back?

stop_xbl_racism@hotmail.com


[Edited on 06.23.2007 1:44 PM PDT]

  • 06.23.2007 1:44 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

This is not a Bungie issue, all gamertags are issued through Microsoft, not Bungie. If you have a problem with someones names, symbols, remarks, or anything there of, send them feedback and file a complaint. IF you file a complaint the person in question will be asked to change their name and/or be forever muted. They do crack down on these people, you just have to know how to deal with them. Just file a complaint, not 'Submit Player Review', 'File Complaint' afterwards, just let what happens happen.

  • 06.23.2007 2:09 PM PDT

Agreed, save the symbols that are part of Halo 2, not XBox live -- at least for Classic XBox systems and Halo 2 -- which is why this post is both here and on the XBox Live forums.

  • 06.23.2007 2:15 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

My friend, you would not tell with ſuch high zeſt
To children ardent for ſome deſperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum eſt
Pro patria mori.

As was said you need to make sure you report these racist and offensive names using the XBL tools provided, or else the system just doesn't work.

  • 06.23.2007 2:20 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Destinypedia - The Wiki for Bungie's Destiny
Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Fragula is completely right. The system is too big and the variations too many for automatic prevention controls and punishments to be completely effective. Although some controls are already in place (like a filter to prevent the creation of gamertags containing various common spellings of racist/sexist/bad words), there are simply too many ways to get a racist message/gamertag through the system. Thus, the system depends on us, its users, to report such instances. And when we do, it works.

Unfortunately, far too many people look at such gamertags and laugh or just shake their head. I have seen this happen. I have had people on XBL who I considered friends refuse to report racist gamertags because it "wasn't a big deal" or "it's just some kid" or it "takes too much time." I have even had people tell me to relax and just let it go.

I urge anyone who feels this way to reconsider -- is it really going to hurt you to delay starting the next matchmaking game for 10 seconds in order to report a racist gamertag? I doubt it. There is no valid excuse for not reporting such things unless you think that the gamertag is not going to insult or offend anyone. And if you DO think that, you are deluded.

At any rate, Rokit is generally right -- this is not a Bungie issue, it's a Microsoft issue. But considering that a large number of these offensive gamertags can be seen while playing Bungie games, I think that it is a valid thing to bring up here in this forum, and it is similarly valid to ask all Bungie fans to report such gamertags with the same fervor and eagerness that they report cheaters.

Remember that, for some people, a racist gamertag can ruin a game just as much, if not worse, than a cheater.

  • 06.23.2007 2:48 PM PDT

If you note my post. 1) I have already reported via feedback 2)reported via emai 3)reported via phone call for the particular gamer tag above. And he's still playing.

But why can he even create such an obiously racist gamer tag in the first place? Fixing this is a matter of some very, very simple code. Why can you create a tag with the word Ni**s in it, but can't create a tag that disparages Microsoft or, say, Bill Gates?

The issue of manipulating symbols that Bungie authored into racist emblems as part of Halo 2 is, literally, years old. And I have placed multiple phone calls, emails, and submitted feedback since going on, literally, for years now.

The point of this post is that the current methods are not working, that we have zero transparency to the process (unlike Bungie's frequest public remarks regarding the Banhammer), and that a new, more effective approach is needed. Case in point, that gamer is still playing, right now. With the same tag.

  • 06.23.2007 2:51 PM PDT

Again: The gamer tag I reference above has the word Hates followed directly by the word Ni**s (using the letter g for the character *). Could this not be more obvious? What kind of filters are they using? It's not even "Ni66s" or "N1663R"!

And why is the history of every racist gamer tag still searchable at Bungie.net? Can you think of any other MS website that would serve of such content from it's databases? The evidence is not that the system is working, rather it is mediocre at best and a forgotten stepchild at worst.

[Edited on 06.23.2007 3:00 PM PDT]

  • 06.23.2007 2:58 PM PDT

Gah, racists on Live... a harsh mistress indeed.
I can't even count how many times I've seen XxxX<InsertRapRelatedName>xxXXX the ten year old call me a -blam- ridiculous these people.
Fight back with Feedback!

  • 06.23.2007 3:22 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

There's a Feedback option for such gamertags. The Feedback system works, trust me! I was suspended from my mic before and I only played halo 2 that day lol.

  • 06.23.2007 5:46 PM PDT

Xbox Ambassador.

I'm sick of racism...I was playing the beta with some friends and 4 out of 6 of the other players on the other team had the -blam!- emblem, and at the end of the game said "White Power". Seriously, racism, IMO, should be taken as one of the most severe offenses and should be resulted in a permaban. The only response that I had to their statement was "You can kiss my natural black <Insert -Blam!- Here>"

  • 06.23.2007 6:34 PM PDT

"I pledge to punch all switches, to never shoot where I could use grenades, to admit the existence of no level except Total Carnage, to never use caps lock as my "run" key, and to never, ever, leave a single BoB alive."

2B || !2B - Why don't you look Inside the Machine?

Even though it might not seem like Microsoft isn't taking steps towards the people that offend the rules doesn't mean that they aren't. With literally millions of gamertags and accounts to sift through and analyze it is bound to take a-lot of time. Sure it doesn't seem fair and it doesn't look like justice is being served. But who is to say that justice is supposed to be audible?

If you report every offensive person, gamertag, or account you come across to the proper authorities I'm sure action will be set forth. You just have to allow a reasonable amount of time for the investigation, accusation, verification, and banishment process.

When you have lots of complaints (perhaps thousands) and you have to check everyone out with the upmost scrutiny to verify that the appropriate action fits the filed complaint if the complaint is truly a violation of the rules, that is when it becomes a Matrix. It is a Matrix of problem solving, problem solving takes a-lot of time. On some occasions that could be a few hours, a day, a week, or months. Like I said, you don't need to hear justice to know that it is churning.

The small shack nested in the surroundings of a small cherry tree and pond hidden in a forrest need not fool you, Ninjas are coming.

[Edited on 06.23.2007 6:36 PM PDT]

  • 06.23.2007 6:35 PM PDT

Per my comments above, it is clear that what they are doing is not working. Someone is not prevented from creating a blatently racist gamertag, and is allowed to play for 8 days and running? -blam!- hoods in Halo 2 for YEARS? Years-old racist tags still served up on Bungie.net when searching gamer tags?

No, it's not working.

  • 06.23.2007 7:40 PM PDT

Note that whey I typed captial letter "K" multiple times above in reference to a racist organization, the Bungie forums automatically edited the text before I posted it to read "-blam!-" So, another case in point: They can instantly edit text on a forum, but let the word "Ni**s" exist as a gamer tag for many days as a player, and forever in stats history.

Argh! If only there were an Anti-Racist Pirate Mister Chief at Bungie to the rescue!

Maybe they should put the -blam- filter guys on it.

[Edited on 06.23.2007 7:53 PM PDT]

  • 06.23.2007 7:46 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Instead of reporting them for a racist GT, report them for racist behaviour.

  • 06.23.2007 8:01 PM PDT

I just had a conversation with another gamer on this and here, specifically, is what I'm asking for:

1. A specifically dedicated email address, similar to the halo2 cheats address, dedicated to racist violations of the XBL code of conduct. For example: racismhotline@xboxlive.com.

2. A significantly more rigorous -blam-like filter for preventing the creation of racist tags in the first place.

3. The removal of all history from Bungie.net /XBoxlive.com of past stats for gamers with racist tags. New gamer tags that are banned would also immediately have their stats removed, providing transparency as to XBL enforcement (if the stats are no longer there, it will be apparent that the gamer has been dealt with). Searches for removed gamer tags would return a result like "Gamer stats have been purged due to violation of the XBox Live code of conduct."

4. The elimination from Halo 2 of the combination of graphic effects that have consistently been used to create racist graphics (hoods). New permutations could be submitted to the racism email alias for continued review by Bungie and MS.

5. Acknowledgement from MS that they are continuing to take this issue seriously, and will continue to take additional measures as ongoing issues related to racism develop.


[Edited on 06.23.2007 9:49 PM PDT]

  • 06.23.2007 9:43 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Destinypedia - The Wiki for Bungie's Destiny
Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Let me start by saying that I agree with your list, although in my opinion, some of the items are not at all high-priority and may indeed not be a priority at all.

But overall, you seem quite intense about this, LKiller. If you really are, then you need to be aware that, as has been pointed out earlier in this thread, this is a Bungie forum addressing Bungie issues. In your list of demands, the only things that can be dealt with by Bungie are numbers three and four above. Bungie is unlikely to "pass along" your message regarding the other three to Microsoft, and as a result, you should raise your issues directly with the parent company.

I understand that racism can really set off a nerve in some people, so please don't be offended when I say that posting and repeating your issues with Microsoft here on a forum that is read primarily by Bungie Community members makes you sound a bit blustery.

In other words, talk about the changes that should be made to Halo games and Bungie.net here all you want. But to do something about the preventative efforts, enforcement, and public relations aspects of racist gamertags, you need to stop wasting time posting here and instead make an effort (or better, a concerted effort with others) to take up the issue with the people who can do something about it -- namely Microsoft and the people who run XBox Live.

I suggest, at a minimum, starting with the XBox Live General Forums.

If you'd like to make a concerted effort, I will be happy to join you. But except (maybe) for numbers 3 and 4 of your list, you are not making any progress by continuing to talk in this thread about the other items in your list.

Good luck in your efforts.

  • 06.24.2007 12:38 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

BLACK PPL ARE LIKE MONKEYZ THEY BELONG IN A ZOO! lol jp

  • 06.24.2007 9:34 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I can't believe that anyone would be offended by a Gamertag, That's just my thoughts, however.

  • 06.24.2007 9:35 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Legendary Member

Mourne not your comrades who must dwell / too strong to strive -
Within each steel-bound coffin of a cell, / Buried alive;
But rather mourne the apathetic throng / The cowed, and the meek -
Who see the world’s great anguish and its wrong / And dare not speak.

[group]167741|Diner|Where's the food?[/group]

I disagree with saying that talking about the issue here is pointless. For years, Bungie had the number one played game on XBL. In a short time, they wiil again have the number one played game. A bunch of people jabbering to Microsoft will not get anything accomplished, MS isn't the type of company to deal directly with the people from what I know. (Try getting permission to get some kind of copyright use permission - just don't wait for them to reply.) But we are able to influence Bungie with our comments, and Bungie has weight with Microsoft when it comes to games. We don't have 2 month trials anymore, and I would be suprised if that wasn't due to Bungie's complaining to MS that the trials were making cheating impossible to stop. So yes, I think that talking here could make a diffence. And at the very least, it can't hurt.

Posted by: LKiller1310a
I just had a conversation with another gamer on this and here, specifically, is what I'm asking for:

1. A specifically dedicated email address, similar to the halo2 cheats address, dedicated to racist violations of the XBL code of conduct. For example: racismhotline@xboxlive.com.

Sounds like a good idea to me. If they think it works for cheating, I don't see why it wouldn't help racism.

2. A significantly more rigorous -blam-like filter for preventing the creation of racist tags in the first place.

Not a bad idea, but in the long run, I don't think it's much of a solution. There will always be new ways to say bad words, so stopping them will be impossible. A good first line of defense, but nothing to rely on.

3. The removal of all history from Bungie.net /XBoxlive.com of past stats for gamers with racist tags. New gamer tags that are banned would also immediately have their stats removed, providing transparency as to XBL enforcement (if the stats are no longer there, it will be apparent that the gamer has been dealt with). Searches for removed gamer tags would return a result like "Gamer stats have been purged due to violation of the XBox Live code of conduct."

I agree. It should be faily easy to do - if a tag was banned for racism, make the stats unavailable to the public.

4. The elimination from Halo 2 of the combination of graphic effects that have consistently been used to create racist graphics (hoods). New permutations could be submitted to the racism email alias for continued review by Bungie and MS.

No reason not to try. if the combinations are well known, they could be but on a list of some kind. However, I'm not sure that Bungie has the ability in place to automatically decline specific combinations. It may be easier and more effective to simply ask players to report players who use the emblems.

5. Acknowledgement from MS that they are continuing to take this issue seriously, and will continue to take additional measures as ongoing issues related to racism develop.

At this point, I think you should hope for an official statement from Bungie that they are taking it seriously, and are working with microsoft to help the problem. It could be mentioned in a weekly update, like the cheating announcements are.

  • 06.24.2007 12:05 PM PDT

Just to clarify, there is a similar thread that I started on the XBL forums. The reason I am a posting this here is that the history of racist gamertag stats is served up on Bungie.com, and because the issue of racist symbols is, at least for the original XBox, an issue based on symbols that Bugnie built into Halo 2.

  • 06.24.2007 1:08 PM PDT