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This topic has moved here: Subject: Take the Battle Rifle Out of Matchmaking Entirely
  • Subject: Take the Battle Rifle Out of Matchmaking Entirely
Subject: Take the Battle Rifle Out of Matchmaking Entirely

I have a novel idea, keep the BR and fix the button glitches there you go problem solved, thread over.

  • 06.25.2007 11:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: Janube Taso
I love how everyone here thinks this guy is a joke.

The lack of intelligent response to his original post is why this is the laughing stock of all Halo 2 discussions.

I'm great with the BR, and I still adhere to what I posted earlier in this thread.
I'm good at the game in general. And after more than 10,000 games, I can safely say that I hate the Battle rifle and the carbine. I think they put an element in the game that does not belong. They should still be there, but not nearly as powerful or accurate. Or their clips should be much more limited.

People immediately assume that this guy hates the BR because he's bad.
So narrow-minded.


I understand where you're coming from. However, if people didn't make threads like this, or didn't expect to be taken seriously in threads like this, then the Bungie.net reputation (in terms of Halo 2 discussion) wouldn't be so low.

If he's serious, he should have made a more concise, sensible original post. Not a post inviting to be flamed.

If he's not serious, then it's flame bait (spam.) Because he's expecting funny/derogatory responses.

This is why Halo 2 discussions on these forums are a joke (don't get me wrong I still like discussing them here though.) Now about your post, if you had posted something along the lines of what you said about the BR/Carbine, then it would be a more mature debate.

In which case, I can somewhat agree. I think the BR in Halo 2 is slightly broken. It makes the fights more on positioning rather than skill. If you're facing good people who hardly miss, then you're going to die the majority of the time should they get the first shot.

Halo 3's BR somewhat brings more skill into the rifles, but it's still a matter of positioning. Even if you're more skilled than someone, if they're in a better position than you, you'll lose that battle more often than not.

The BR more or less forces you to think more stategically, as opposed to using your pure skills.

For the record, I still think Halo 2 requires skill to play, especially when you're talking about close range BR battles.

Oh, and for the record again, I prefer BR start games to SMG games. Makes for more balanced gameplay. However, the Carbine is a great starter weapon, but a bit host dominant. Regardless, I'd be interested to see what a Carbine start game would be like, with BR's on the map nonetheless.

[Edited on 06.25.2007 11:12 PM PDT]

  • 06.25.2007 11:09 PM PDT
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this kid is a 24 in like 165 games. I'm a 22 in 45 games

he's complaining because he can't BR, plain and simple

  • 06.25.2007 11:15 PM PDT
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Posted by: ABates77_correct
I have a novel idea, keep the BR and fix the button glitches there you go problem solved, thread over.


they did it's called Halo 3

  • 06.25.2007 11:16 PM PDT
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Well of course it makes for a more balanced game. That's because there are so many damn BR spawns on every map. It becomes the only weapon used aside from the power weapons.

The skills required beyond positioning are simply aiming and a bit of reflex. True, it's a skill, but when that's all there is to the game, it loses a huge aspect that was intended. Which is why, more often than not, I enjoy playing on smaller levels or really big levels. The really big levels never intended to have much duals-gameplay, but the medium range levels should have fewer BR spawns or something along those lines. Now if they kept it as good as it is and made it a "power weapon" with a single spawn and no ammo on the map, then we'd have a discussion. I think that would be a fair way to play with the BR.

However, the population has simply adapted into the idea of BR being the only "fair" weapon possible. So we come to a point in which no one uses anything except that and the power weapons.
This is why when I spring a game where you don't start with a BR onto people, they get mad and quit. Because I end up winning because I know how to properly use duals, sword, shotgun, and the rifles on the map. Not just the one weapon. The game is meant to be one of versatility.

"Now about your post, if you had posted something along the lines of what you said about the BR/Carbine, then it would be a more mature debate." Is this referring to my post that's essentially insulting the people in this thread? Or did you make a mistake? It just seems like a redundant question. "If you had posted something like what you said". It's the same thing. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding it though. And if I am, I apologize.

I can tell a discussion with you is at least possible. Thank you.

EDIT: And Thatdamnoob, read my post. It talks about the point you brought up. You don't have to be bad with the BR to dislike it. I hate the damn thing.


[Edited on 06.25.2007 11:24 PM PDT]

  • 06.25.2007 11:23 PM PDT
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Location: Outlaws' Summit.

I was complimenting you on your post, I'm not sure if you took what I said the wrong way, but if you did I apologize for any errors in my wordings. LOL it's late ;-)

Anyway, I do agree with everything you're saying. The BR has become what the Halo 1 Pistol was. It's the weapon used all the time- you'll have one with you no matter where you go.

However, even though this makes the gameplay very one dimensional (every battle is more or less the same when completely stripped down to it) it provides the people who favor.............competition with something fair.

I'm not saying SMG starts aren't competitive. To be good at slaying in this game, you should develope skill with every weapon, especially the default starter weapon. But the problem with the SMG was that it made those battles into "Spray and pray" battles. People would just dual wield and win no matter what. Even though the BR isn't the hardest gun to use, at least you could pull off some fancy footwork in close range battles and use melees/grenades to tip the tide in your favor.

Halo 3's AR does this extremely well. It actually forces us to use every aspect imaginable to win battles.

I don't know if I'm being clear, I'm kinda typing without thinking, but this is why I prefer the BR to the SMG. Not to say I don't respect SMG users though- people like you who can effectively wield it and work with it have a lot of skill, in my book. Hence why I have respect for good Rumble Pit Players.

All in all, I believe the BR is a slightly overpowered weapon, but for this game, it's what works best (in terms of competitive gaming.) The way this game's mechanics work, it provides players with the best chance of defending themselves. Because SMG start games usually result in grabbing the power weapons and rifles and spawn trapping the opponent. At least with BR's you can defend yourself. I think that's what they were aiming for in terms of BR start games.

  • 06.25.2007 11:51 PM PDT
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Posted by: Janube Taso

EDIT: And Thatdamnoob, read my post. It talks about the point you brought up. You don't have to be bad with the BR to dislike it. I hate the damn thing.


No you just have to want to play something other than the halo series considering it's always been about high accuracy or heavy damage weapons.

  • 06.26.2007 12:17 AM PDT
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Go head take out the BR from matchmaking ill just use a carbine

  • 06.26.2007 12:34 AM PDT
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The truth is out there. We're just not looking in the right places.

Even if you had a petition, I highly doubt Bungie would take out the Battle Rifle. Besides, I have fun using that thing. But I'm glad Bungie fixed the glitich for the Battle Rifle in the Beta. Helps a lot.

  • 06.26.2007 12:59 AM PDT

Check out the Postgame Carnage Report! The uncensored, NSFW Halo fan podcast!

Looks like you have two choices

Learn to fire a BR

Or

Go play Tetris.

  • 06.26.2007 7:12 AM PDT
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Actually, I would say it takes more skill to get a kill with the SMG, because with the BR, you 4sk and they're dead. The SMG, you have to dump nearly an entire clip into them, while getting up close for it to work, while controlling recoil.

Anyways, to the OP, shut up. Stop whining because you got beat too many times by someone with a BR, and you don't know how to aim (is there such thing in Halo 2?), for the head.

  • 06.26.2007 8:02 AM PDT

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mmmmkay this thread is relly stupid. i never play team slayer (except with friends, and very rarely play matchmaking anywho, but i like br starts, it makes it exciting.

  • 06.26.2007 8:05 AM PDT

(>-^.^)> ( # )

the BR isnt cheap at all, only the power weapons (sword, rockets, etc...) and NC are cheap. even though i find BxR, BxB, Double Shooting, and all those glitches are cheap, the BR actually requires skill.

  • 06.26.2007 8:07 AM PDT
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stfu kid your just mad cuz you suck with it.

  • 06.26.2007 8:23 AM PDT

TmarsVolta said. BR is cheap you know it.
and no i don't need your lessons why don't you add me and let's play one on one on elongation SMG start.

gt: tmrsvlt






ur bad br takes skill to use and ill play u even though i anit very good on elongation cause i never the it cause its the -blam!-tiest map on the whole game

[Edited on 06.26.2007 8:26 AM PDT]

  • 06.26.2007 8:24 AM PDT

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Posted by: TMarsVolta
The Battle Riffle aka BR is the cheapest weapon in Halo 2 and should be taken out of matchmaking. It is the most glitchiest weapon ever, making it the cheapest. We all know the BR takes the fun out of Halo 2 Online, so let's get the SMG back to starting weapon and take out the BR completely. Remember the good ol' days with SMG start, best med. range weapon ever. LET'S DO IT FOR THE SMG!


Uhh, no. The " Good ol' days" with SMG Start were when the SMG was way more powerful then it is now. The BR wasn't as strong back then along with beat downs and grenades. The BR is a good ranged weapon to start with, just because your not great with it doesn't mean rally against it.

  • 06.26.2007 8:29 AM PDT

Posted by: Recon Number 54 | Master Forum Ninja |
You're asking people to state which non-released game they like better?

It's like asking a virgin whether they like being on top or on bottom.

Buddy, this is not the cheapest weapon in the game, next to the sniper it takes more skill than any other weapon in the game to use. You, apparently, can't use it well. You probably stand still with a sniper, and run around with duel's (Duel Wieldable guns) all day. Well here, below, is normally what I post in button glitching threads. But all button glitches deal with a BR. So I think it's appropriate. If you are a good BR user, you have to consider all the information I have posted below really fast. The BR is not a cheap weapon, if it was than pro's like Team Final Boss wouldn't be allowed to compete in the MLG Pro Circuit with it.


Posted by: sk8r13 09
I feel, in my opinion, that button glitching is fine to do in matchmakeing. Like some people feel, I believe it is like playing a fighting game, and the button glitches are just hard to do combos. If you say it takes no skill to do a Excessive Shot, Double Shot, and Quad Shot than you are sadly mistaken(I do think BXR and BXB are pretty easy to do.) I don't have to do any of the button glitches to win a match, and I still do very well without them. And for the people who think it is cheating(Like Bungie). All I have to say is," Why is superbouncing not cheating, but button glitches are?" "They both are things that exploit flaws in the game, everyone can do them, and you don't need to buy excess hardware to make them work(Via Modding)." So why should they be cheating, when other glitches in matchmakeing aren't?

Button glitches do not make you good. Anyone who button glitches can probably own while regular shooting. They just need to take it to the next level. It's way harder to do the gltich than most people think. And the people who complain about it are the ones who can't do it. It takes just as much skill to do the button glitch and fire at the person than it does to just shoot. It takes more concentration to do the glitch and better aim.



"I don't really Quad Shot that much compared to a regular Double Shot. Instead of a Double Shot-YY-Double Shot,RRX-YY-RRX(Quad Shot). I perfer the "Shot Shot Double Shot."( R-R-RRX) I find the the "Shot Shot Double Shot" has a higher success rate than a Quad, because you are less likely to miss some of your headshots. And if you are good, but not amazing at a Quad Shot(Like myself), then you will have the occasional screw up on the first Double Shot. And most players would be killed in this instance because they were previously taking fire. Now, because you might have screwed up your first Double Shot in the Quad Shot, you now have to run behind a corner. This is where you make a decision; Should you stay there, reaload, and wait for the other player to pop around the corner so you can BXR/BXB him? Or you could try to make a tactical manuever by sneaking around him for the assasination. Or the last thing you could do is suprise by doing an Excessive Shot,BRX-RRX-BRX-RRX(Triple Shot). That would catch him completely off gaurd."






That is a quote by me. Now that might all be running through the normal button glitchers head at the moment you are attacking. Now if you think it takes no skill to do a button glitch, then I would like to you Excessive Shot, or Quad while fighting your opponent. It's a little harder to do, I think, than you people who just pull the R trigger. We, button glitchers, have to push multiple buttons and pull the R trigger in under a second to make one shot work(Double Shot, BXR, and BXB) You non button glitchers are just having to push R trigger every half second. We have to do most of our Quad's and Excessives in under that to make them work correctly. That, my friends, takes way more skill than pulling a trigger, and it takes more concentration and more skill to pull off those button glitches.

One thing that is stupid that I hate about regular open area BR'ing is, it's a whoever shoots first wins. Maybe if there is cover around you can hide and the pull off a four shot on the guys head from a suprise jumping strife. But if you were to say button glitch after he fired off two shots, he might be damaged and forced to retreat, giving you some time to heal, or he could be dead. It's no longer a shoot first win first situation. It's a "Who has more skill?"

And also for the people who button glitch. They are always trying to fight other button glitchers. This makes it really hard, because if both of you are glitching than it's an even battle. But one Double Shot can turn the whole thing around. Now a button glitcher has to look out for people more. If he see's someone he has to make a decision. "Should I fire at him, or wait for him to come here. Because he could turn around and Quad me when I'm only going to fire a Double Shot. Maybe if I hide I can pull of a BXR. But he might see me and do it before me. Maybe I should wait for a teamate, but he might know that, and tell one of his teamates to flank us and shoot us from behind while he Double Shots us. If he shot a regular shot I could live, but that's a maybe" That is running through the mind of a button glitcher. You non-button glitchers should think like that, but you don't because you expect him to play as you do. But he might not. So you get mad in the game and yell and scream "Cheater!" While you, yourself, have probably superbounced in that match and was just killed while you were up there. You darn glitcher.


[Edited on 06.26.2007 8:38 AM PDT]

  • 06.26.2007 8:35 AM PDT

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I totally agree with you Sk8 and thats a really interesting and good way to put it, I never thought of it like that. I completely agree.

  • 06.26.2007 8:39 AM PDT

(>-^.^)> ( # )

Posted by: sk8r13 09
Buddy, this is not the cheapest weapon in the game, next to the sniper it takes more skill than any other weapon in the game to use. You, apparently, can't use it well. You probably stand still with a sniper, and run around with duel's (Duel Wieldable guns) all day. Well here, below, is normally what I post in button glitching threads. But all button glitches deal with a BR. So I think it's appropriate. If you are a good BR user, you have to consider all the information I have posted below really fast. The BR is not a cheap weapon, if it was than pro's like Team Final Boss wouldn't be allowed to compete in the MLG Pro Circuit with it.


Posted by: sk8r13 09
I feel, in my opinion, that button glitching is fine to do in matchmakeing. Like some people feel, I believe it is like playing a fighting game, and the button glitches are just hard to do combos. If you say it takes no skill to do a Excessive Shot, Double Shot, and Quad Shot than you are sadly mistaken(I do think BXR and BXB are pretty easy to do.) I don't have to do any of the button glitches to win a match, and I still do very well without them. And for the people who think it is cheating(Like Bungie). All I have to say is," Why is superbouncing not cheating, but button glitches are?" "They both are things that exploit flaws in the game, everyone can do them, and you don't need to buy excess hardware to make them work(Via Modding)." So why should they be cheating, when other glitches in matchmakeing aren't?

Button glitches do not make you good. Anyone who button glitches can probably own while regular shooting. They just need to take it to the next level. It's way harder to do the gltich than most people think. And the people who complain about it are the ones who can't do it. It takes just as much skill to do the button glitch and fire at the person than it does to just shoot. It takes more concentration to do the glitch and better aim.



"I don't really Quad Shot that much compared to a regular Double Shot. Instead of a Double Shot-YY-Double Shot,RRX-YY-RRX(Quad Shot). I perfer the "Shot Shot Double Shot."( R-R-RRX) I find the the "Shot Shot Double Shot" has a higher success rate than a Quad, because you are less likely to miss some of your headshots. And if you are good, but not amazing at a Quad Shot(Like myself), then you will have the occasional screw up on the first Double Shot. And most players would be killed in this instance because they were previously taking fire. Now, because you might have screwed up your first Double Shot in the Quad Shot, you now have to run behind a corner. This is where you make a decision; Should you stay there, reaload, and wait for the other player to pop around the corner so you can BXR/BXB him? Or you could try to make a tactical manuever by sneaking around him for the assasination. Or the last thing you could do is suprise by doing an Excessive Shot,BRX-RRX-BRX-RRX(Triple Shot). That would catch him completely off gaurd."






That is a quote by me. Now that might all be running through the normal button glitchers head at the moment you are attacking. Now if you think it takes no skill to do a button glitch, then I would like to you Excessive Shot, or Quad while fighting your opponent. It's a little harder to do, I think, than you people who just pull the R trigger. We, button glitchers, have to push multiple buttons and pull the R trigger in under a second to make one shot work(Double Shot, BXR, and BXB) You non button glitchers are just having to push R trigger every half second. We have to do most of our Quad's and Excessives in under that to make them work correctly. That, my friends, takes way more skill than pulling a trigger, and it takes more concentration and more skill to pull off those button glitches.

One thing that is stupid that I hate about regular open area BR'ing is, it's a whoever shoots first wins. Maybe if there is cover around you can hide and the pull off a four shot on the guys head from a suprise jumping strife. But if you were to say button glitch after he fired off two shots, he might be damaged and forced to retreat, giving you some time to heal, or he could be dead. It's no longer a shoot first win first situation. It's a "Who has more skill?"

And also for the people who button glitch. They are always trying to fight other button glitchers. This makes it really hard, because if both of you are glitching than it's an even battle. But one Double Shot can turn the whole thing around. Now a button glitcher has to look out for people more. If he see's someone he has to make a decision. "Should I fire at him, or wait for him to come here. Because he could turn around and Quad me when I'm only going to fire a Double Shot. Maybe if I hide I can pull of a BXR. But he might see me and do it before me. Maybe I should wait for a teamate, but he might know that, and tell one of his teamates to flank us and shoot us from behind while he Double Shots us. If he shot a regular shot I could live, but that's a maybe" That is running through the mind of a button glitcher. You non-button glitchers should think like that, but you don't because you expect him to play as you do. But he might not. So you get mad in the game and yell and scream "Cheater!" While you, yourself, have probably superbounced in that match and was just killed while you were up there. You darn glitcher.


the only thing i disagree with is the super bouncing thing. Bungie DOES consider super jumping cheating, it is also a glitch that should have never happened. the rest i agree with

  • 06.26.2007 8:44 AM PDT

Posted by: Recon Number 54 | Master Forum Ninja |
You're asking people to state which non-released game they like better?

It's like asking a virgin whether they like being on top or on bottom.

Well, thank you. I thought I made a valid point.

  • 06.26.2007 8:46 AM PDT

Posted by: Recon Number 54 | Master Forum Ninja |
You're asking people to state which non-released game they like better?

It's like asking a virgin whether they like being on top or on bottom.

Posted by: XxCubanLegendxX
the only thing i disagree with is the super bouncing thing. Bungie DOES consider super jumping cheating, it is also a glitch that should have never happened. the rest i agree with


I could have sworn the last time I checked, Bungie said that there was no possible way to control super bouncing, and because every one can do it they allow it. That was in a weekly update from 2005-2006 area.

[Edited on 06.26.2007 8:48 AM PDT]

  • 06.26.2007 8:48 AM PDT
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HALO<3

YOU CAN STILL BXR AND BXB WITH AN SMG if smg and br go up close its fair because you can BXRB with an smg for an instant kill!

  • 06.26.2007 8:50 AM PDT

(>-^.^)> ( # )

same is in they cant control BxR and those button glitches. they cant take out any f the glitches since it an error in the codes of the game. in order to take out the glitches, they need to rewrite everything.

  • 06.26.2007 8:51 AM PDT
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Posted by: XxCubanLegendxX
the BR isnt cheap at all, only the power weapons (sword, rockets, etc...) and NC are cheap. even though i find BxR, BxB, Double Shooting, and all those glitches are cheap, the BR actually requires skill.

Nothing in Halo 2 is cheap, the game is balanced when configured correctly. There are plenty of ways to combat every weapon and combination of weapons.
Let's start with the BR. It is the most balanced weapon in the game. Great medium range, and decent long and short range. It is the core of the balance in Halo 2. To combat the BR from short range you can use the Sword, Shotgun, or a dual wield. These three weapons/combinations were meant for short range combat, and are poor in long and medium range combat. A BR can take any of these down easily at medium range. But, try taking down a plasma rifle/SMG combo from close range with a BR. Chances are you won't be able to if the players are of roughly equal skill level. From long range, the Sniper is able to defeat the BR quite easily, again assuming roughly equal skill levels. A sniper can be defeated much the same as a BR can be defeated. The BR is "overpowered" when only one or two players have one, and the game is set up with SMG spawns. Many of you are complaining that there are too many BRs on most maps, but, in fact, this is exactly the opposite of the problem. There are too few BRs on most maps to actively combat someone with a BR. Ascension, Midship and Lockout are prime examples of this problem. With more BR spawns on the map it would be easier for you to get one when your opponent has one.
Examining the rest of the power weapons (Rockets and The Combo) also shows that the game is balanced and not cheap. The Rockets are a fast kill and are fairly easy to use, but they have limited ammo and generally don't perform well past short-medium range. The best way to get past rockets are to either snipe the rocket holder, catch him by surprise, or keep your distance and BR him. The Combo is generally considered to be the cheapest part of the game from my experience, but the biggest drawback of The Combo is the fact that it takes two weapon slots to use. This gives a devastating medium range attack and a pretty good close range attack (plasma then beatdown), but is very poor long range. It also gives away your position from the glow, and if the plasma misses you will most likely be behind in the firefight and unable to catch up (equal skill assumed).
The key to everything in Halo 2 is knowledge. With the right knowledge of the weapons and levels it is possible to overcome most scenarios. Much of this also depends on the configuration of the gametype, however. With SMG starts on certain levels (Ascension) it is very difficult to come back from a defecit when the other team knows how to control the map. With a BR start on the same level, it is much more balanced and harder to control the level. It is still useful to pick up an SMG even with a BR start. If you plan on being in a short range scenario then a dual wield is your best friend other than a short range power weapon. An SMG is also much more effective at taking a Banshee down. Certain weapons are meant to give an advantage to the player using them, but most of the time it can be countered with the correct knowledge. Halo 2 is much more about knowledge, situational weapon choice and teamwork than it is about any particular weapon being cheap and overpowered. Without the BR or Carbine in Halo 2 the game would have no good medium range weapon, and the power weapons would truly be overpowered. If Halo 2 were a one-dimensional game there would only be one type of weapon. By having the duals, the BR/Carbine, and the power weapons Halo 2 becomes a highly complex game of quick decision making. Taking anything out would result in a worse game that was unbalanced and boring.

Also, on a side note, the button glitches (BXR, doubleshot, double melee, etc.) are not intended portions of the game and can make it slightly unfair when an expert uses them, but they are here to stay in Halo 2 and also have ways to counter them (but more difficult). I use them to my advantage, but would prefer if they were not in the game.

  • 06.26.2007 8:52 AM PDT