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Subject: The Pointless Ranking System
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I think I just played 30 games tonight and I didn’t win one. If the ranking system worked (which it doesn’t) what would the chances be that I would win one game? If 8 people are playing in Rumble Pit I should win one out of 8 times. But this never happens. I’ve posted this before and most of the time I get people who just say I suck. That’s not the point. The ranking system is there to match players together of equal skill. I just want to play for fun. Now get this. As I continued to lose tonight my rank went UP!!! I don’t care about a high rank. I just want to play with people my own skill level.

I know people buy new accounts and xbox wants to make money so I suppose they don’t count that as cheating. I know there are modders and you can’t do anything about that either. But why does each game have to have its own separate ranking system? Every game is pretty much the same except snipers. It’s just a game where you run around and kill people. Whether it’s Team Slayer or Double Team or H2 Challenge or Hardcore or Team Skirmish. Why do I have to go up against a guy who has a 38 overall rank but he’s a 13 in H2 Challenge? It just makes no sense at all.

Every game “matches” people within three or four ranks. Say there’s three 15s, three 14s and the rest are 13. Sounds like a close game right? OH BUT NO! It’s not close at all. One guy gets 25 kills before anyone gets 15. Almost always the guy who wins has TEN more points than anyone else. Or sometimes it’s a close game between first and second but the rest are nowhere close. On top of that you can play 30 or 40 games and not win one. Something is seriously wrong with the ranking system in Halo 2 and very few people on this forum want to admit it.

So before you all reply I just want to say I will not reply to anyone who says I just suck. And I KNOW there are Bungie lapdogs on this forum that will tell me everything is fine. As the late great Bill Hicks once said, “Your denial is beneath you and through the use of hallucinogenic drugs, I see through you.”

I know the Bungie corporate shills will try to explain everything with some kind of complicated algorithm. But the fact of the matter is you shouldn’t have to play 30 or 40 games and not win ONE GAME if the ranking system worked.


[Edited on 06.30.2007 9:36 PM PDT]

  • 06.30.2007 9:32 PM PDT
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Maybe you need to get better, just a thought.

II Anabolic BR

  • 06.30.2007 9:41 PM PDT

My last thread: Why Reach Sucks

<3 Foman

If everyone else thinks it works fine, and they all say you suck...then maybe that means something.... But ya, im a 27 in H2C, because I win. I don't understand your logic. You can't expect to win 1 out of 8 games just because you get matched up with 8 people. IT's not the same people over and over. and when you can't get passed a 13 or 14 you're obviouslty um... ya what everyone else said.

  • 06.30.2007 9:41 PM PDT
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>You can't expect to win 1 out of 8 games just because you get matched up with 8 people. IT's not the same people over and over.

Why not? You ever play black Jack? There's a certain thing called odds. Sometimes you win big and sometimes you lose. The deck has so many cards and the more you play you have to win sometime.

I used to be a 23 before everyone went back to 1. If I REALLY sucked why am I not still a 1 or 2?

I’m not an idiot. Even when I was a 23 it was still the same crap. I would go up in rank even though I lost every game. If you don’t see it then you just don’t want to.

  • 06.30.2007 9:52 PM PDT

myspace.com/bornfromthesea

Yeah. It does not matter if you don't get first every time. You get experience for placing first, second, and third. When you place fourth, you do not gain or lose anything. That is why you are ranking up while losing. It is just that when you get first you get the most experience. Hope I helped :D

  • 06.30.2007 10:44 PM PDT

Maybe without a .7 ratio you would be able to help your team or yourself to a win.

  • 06.30.2007 10:47 PM PDT
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H3 is coming out

why do you care what your rank is?

  • 06.30.2007 10:49 PM PDT

GT= Frost1691
No Group Invites.
Worst idea ever...http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=8664824

There are such things as lower wins and higher losses. If you lose, you still get a certain amount of EXP if you have the highest amount of points on your team. You should read the ranking info on the Halo 2 section of this site.

  • 06.30.2007 11:27 PM PDT
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Posted by: Zach The One
If everyone else thinks it works fine, and they all say you suck...then maybe that means something.... But ya, im a 27 in H2C, because I win. I don't understand your logic. You can't expect to win 1 out of 8 games just because you get matched up with 8 people. IT's not the same people over and over. and when you can't get passed a 13 or 14 you're obviouslty um... ya what everyone else said.


I didn't get past 13...that was because i started Team Snipers and Swat...

  • 07.01.2007 3:08 AM PDT
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Posted by: jzenman
I think I just played 30 games tonight and I didn’t win one. If the ranking system worked (which it doesn’t) what would the chances be that I would win one game? If 8 people are playing in Rumble Pit I should win one out of 8 times. But this never happens. I’ve posted this before and most of the time I get people who just say I suck. That’s not the point. The ranking system is there to match players together of equal skill. I just want to play for fun. Now get this. As I continued to lose tonight my rank went UP!!! I don’t care about a high rank. I just want to play with people my own skill level.

I know people buy new accounts and xbox wants to make money so I suppose they don’t count that as cheating. I know there are modders and you can’t do anything about that either. But why does each game have to have its own separate ranking system? Every game is pretty much the same except snipers. It’s just a game where you run around and kill people. Whether it’s Team Slayer or Double Team or H2 Challenge or Hardcore or Team Skirmish. Why do I have to go up against a guy who has a 38 overall rank but he’s a 13 in H2 Challenge? It just makes no sense at all.

Every game “matches” people within three or four ranks. Say there’s three 15s, three 14s and the rest are 13. Sounds like a close game right? OH BUT NO! It’s not close at all. One guy gets 25 kills before anyone gets 15. Almost always the guy who wins has TEN more points than anyone else. Or sometimes it’s a close game between first and second but the rest are nowhere close. On top of that you can play 30 or 40 games and not win one. Something is seriously wrong with the ranking system in Halo 2 and very few people on this forum want to admit it.

So before you all reply I just want to say I will not reply to anyone who says I just suck. And I KNOW there are Bungie lapdogs on this forum that will tell me everything is fine. As the late great Bill Hicks once said, “Your denial is beneath you and through the use of hallucinogenic drugs, I see through you.”

I know the Bungie corporate shills will try to explain everything with some kind of complicated algorithm. But the fact of the matter is you shouldn’t have to play 30 or 40 games and not win ONE GAME if the ranking system worked.


I understand what your saying Jzenman. The people above just want to wrote sarcastic comments to make people laugh and what not ya know.......kind of old but it still remains on bungie, unfortunately.

For example before the update i was involved in all playlists. 32 in slayer, 28 in hardcore, 34 in team snipers etc......etc......im just an average halo player and i also play for fun, but since the update ive only played team snipers as thats the only playlist i really enjoy playing and the only one i never get tired of playing.

So cos ive only played team snipers since the update im a level 1 in every other playlist.............But not really as im actually a late 20's, early 30's level as ive previously proved. So if i went into team slayer now, i would more often than not own a few games and just generally annoy the other gamers and spoil there fun i guess.

What im saying is, i agree with you about the ranking system being -blam!- ed up and im really really surprised that it aint been tweaked here and there over the last 3 years. Surely it wouldn't be too hard that if you play any ranked game and move up levels, your other ranked levels would move with it slightly....
Like for example if im a 30 in team snipers currently then more other ranked levels should at least be a 20, even if i aint played any games yet.........

I just threw the above idea in quickly, so not really thought about it....................but you get the jist of what line im trying to go along.

  • 07.01.2007 5:05 AM PDT

My last thread: Why Reach Sucks

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Posted by: jzenman
>You can't expect to win 1 out of 8 games just because you get matched up with 8 people. IT's not the same people over and over.

Why not? You ever play black Jack? There's a certain thing called odds. Sometimes you win big and sometimes you lose. The deck has so many cards and the more you play you have to win sometime.

I used to be a 23 before everyone went back to 1. If I REALLY sucked why am I not still a 1 or 2?

I’m not an idiot. Even when I was a 23 it was still the same crap. I would go up in rank even though I lost every game. If you don’t see it then you just don’t want to.


Well Mr. Mathematical GEnius, we're not fudging playing blackjak are we? we're playing halo 2. So unless you're a talking playing card who can type and play halo, then you need to understand there are many more variables in a game of 8 people than with 8 cards.

  • 07.01.2007 6:09 AM PDT
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Matchmaking isn't some kind of game of chance, theres no set win or loss ratio, it's, "Do you have the skill to take these people out?"

  • 07.01.2007 6:11 AM PDT

My last thread: Why Reach Sucks

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Posted by: Viper7070
Matchmaking isn't some kind of game of chance, theres no set win or loss ratio, it's, "Do you have the skill to take these people out?"


Ya, basically right. This guy is trying to apply odds to whether he should win or now. So explain these odds for me. I was a 25 in H2C, playing 21's-31's. I won 5 out of 10, 4 seconds, 1 sixth. I almost won 9 out of 10 games to get my 27. Because from your logic where I should be winning 1 out of 8 games. Lets do some math.
Some prob and stat using a TI-84 plus

So for every game I had a 1/8 probability of winning. Over 10 games though, I should only won 1 or 2. But I won five.
The probability for winning all of these games by mathematical logic and your theory is .000000000931% or .125%^10. Which is mathematiclly impossible. Yet I won close to 10 straight when i first played. And 5 out of 10 against some of the best. Even 5 out of 10 is only .0000002347% of happening. (my math is a little fuzzy lol, but that is basically close) It's mathematically impossible, yet people do it all the time. It depends on how good you actually are and how good your opponents are.

And to the kid who said you get experience when you lose a team game... You don't. You lose less, but you still lose. In the end, in my oppinion, if you lose alot then you're bad. Unless is FFA because Even I only win like 30 to 40 percent of my matches at my level.

  • 07.01.2007 6:39 AM PDT

My last thread: Why Reach Sucks

<3 Foman

Posted by: SOSLICK22
This kid is right, MM screws lower leveled ppl. It works fine if you are in the 25 and up ranks, but below that MM is faulty.


Don't you just love when people come on forums, make outrageous statements, and don't even attempt to explain their convictions?

  • 07.01.2007 6:56 AM PDT
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Posted by: SOSLICK22
This kid is right, MM screws lower leveled ppl. It works fine if you are in the 25 and up ranks, but below that MM is faulty.


I'll agree with that. There are too many people playing second and third accounts for it to really be fun. As much fun as it is to win, what's it worth if you're intentionally playing against people of a lower skill level than yourself?

  • 07.01.2007 7:34 AM PDT
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Posted by: Zach The One
Posted by: Viper7070
Matchmaking isn't some kind of game of chance, theres no set win or loss ratio, it's, "Do you have the skill to take these people out?"


Ya, basically right. This guy is trying to apply odds to whether he should win or now. So explain these odds for me. I was a 25 in H2C, playing 21's-31's. I won 5 out of 10, 4 seconds, 1 sixth. I almost won 9 out of 10 games to get my 27. Because from your logic where I should be winning 1 out of 8 games. Lets do some math.
Some prob and stat using a TI-84 plus

So for every game I had a 1/8 probability of winning. Over 10 games though, I should only won 1 or 2. But I won five.
The probability for winning all of these games by mathematical logic and your theory is .000000000931% or .125%^10. Which is mathematiclly impossible. Yet I won close to 10 straight when i first played. And 5 out of 10 against some of the best. Even 5 out of 10 is only .0000002347% of happening. (my math is a little fuzzy lol, but that is basically close) It's mathematically impossible, yet people do it all the time. It depends on how good you actually are and how good your opponents are.

And to the kid who said you get experience when you lose a team game... You don't. You lose less, but you still lose. In the end, in my oppinion, if you lose alot then you're bad. Unless is FFA because Even I only win like 30 to 40 percent of my matches at my level.


That's all fine and dandy with your complicated math quiz but I'm talking about the real world results of an average player and his or her experience playing the game. The implied idea of Match Making is the player assumes Bungie “matches” equally skilled players. I’m sure they have it all figured out with the Bungie mumbo jumbo statistical rhetoric. But I’m not talking about that. That makes logical sense because it can be explained on an etch-a-sketch. I’m talking about just the common general experience of playing the game and what I have seen with my own eyes.

I have so many friends I would love to play the game with but they have all quit. Why? Because Match Making doesn’t work. They got tired of losing all the time to players that are supposed to be “matched”. So the argument isn’t that I suck or they suck. The game is SUPPOSED to match sucky players up together. It’s fun to win a game every now and then. And I know you can explain why it happens the way it does but that doesn’t answer the human question of normal experience. It’s what common people say and how they feel while playing the game. Maybe that’s why so many people cheat. They got tired of losing so they mod their box. Or they buy new accounts.

This whole argument reminds me of talking to an insurance agent. You go to the hospital and you’ve been paying insurance all your life. You assume that you pay them money every month and when you’re sick they cover the cost. Sounds simple right? But the bill comes and bla bla bla this wasn’t covered and that is a co-pay and you forgot to ask for coverage or call or sign something. They have all kinds of mathematical explanations why they’re right and they’re wrong. They have charts and graphs and statistical equations to prove their point in a court of law. But the reality is you’re screwed.

  • 07.01.2007 7:38 AM PDT
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For one you don't level up on account of how many matches you win, levels depend on experiance points.
Two, you will not always win 1/8 of your matches it just dosn't work that way.
Three, quit complaning.

  • 07.01.2007 8:37 AM PDT
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rank is raised on skill maybe your not winning because your not that good...so why should you rank up, you've peaked.

  • 07.01.2007 10:31 AM PDT
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Location: Outlaws' Summit.

The ranking system was designed to match people of equal skill as per what playlist you're selecting. We all know this, and it does what's it told to- the algorithm involveds says "If such and such rank enters this playlist, then match him up with people + - 10 within their rank."

Seeing as how it's a program, it's doing what it's told. Now, Bungie could go and make it so that we'd have overall ranks and get matched with people that have our overall rank (similar to what they're doing with Halo 3's military rank system) but they didn't. They give us playlists to rank up in, and our highest rank becomes the rank next to our name.

Basicially, everything works the way it should. Sure, you'll get the players who are good and come in and destroy the players who aren't as good. You'll get the players on new accounts who boost people up or just dominate lower ranks for fun.

It's just how it goes. There's not really anything that can be done about it other than playing team training all day or something. Otherwise, you're going to have to keep goin' with tha flow.

Oh, and about Rumble Pit, it's not designed so that you win every game, You'll win a few, but more often than not your goal should be to aim for the top (because Pit is too unpredictable.) However, if you're finding that you can't win any games at all, then that's not the ranking system's fault. You're going to reach a point where unless you place well, you won't rank up. That's where the system does its job.

  • 07.01.2007 10:48 AM PDT
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Posted by: ICEMAN ASSASS1N
Now, Bungie could go and make it so that we'd have overall ranks and get matched with people that have our overall rank (similar to what they're doing with Halo 3's military rank system)...



So then I AM right! Bungie must have seen how retarded it is and decided to fix it in Halo 3 Live play. I'm just complaining a bit late. People must have already looked into this and fixed it. I'll just get an xbox 360 and play Halo 3 Live when it comes out.

BTW

If people never complained we'd still be under British rule.

  • 07.01.2007 2:02 PM PDT
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jzenman you suck

  • 07.01.2007 2:53 PM PDT
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Its tragic, really...to see a world you love sink away in an instant that has occurred long before your time..or its own.

play more...get better. its called alosing streak, most bounce back after a couple of games...looks like you didnt though...i wanna play rumble pit with you

  • 07.01.2007 3:43 PM PDT
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Posted by: Randomhero123
i only bothered to read the first post.. not any of the afters. so excuse me if this is a repeat but,,,, did you not say it was rumble pit? in unranked it doesnt match you according to your rank, it matches you in a game by chance


I know that. If I said Rumble Pit I meant H2 Challenge. Rumble Pit used to be ranked so whatever...

  • 07.02.2007 8:46 AM PDT

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