Halo 1 & 2 for PC
This topic has moved here: Subject: PC Gamers vs. Console gamers
  • Subject: PC Gamers vs. Console gamers
Subject: PC Gamers vs. Console gamers

Posted by: Fake
You didn't understand my statement. I meant that Its not impossible to kill someone using a controller using auto-aim, but its increasingly harder. Where a typical "noob" using a mouse has more chances of winning a match over a typical "noob" using a controller without auto-aim. The events completely change when that typical "noob" using a controller HAS auto-aim, he has 'more' chances of winning a match.

More chances than the mouse player? The idea is that they will have equal chances. You sound a little like you’re just complaining that you don’t have more than them.

But it’s not an unfair advantage. Mouselook is easier to aim with, so therefore they (the developer, not hackers) add assistance to the joypad to even the playing field. You can’t claim that mouse is better, then complain that the joypad has an unfair advantage.
I can if they are using auto-aim. And the mouse look for H2V is ridiculous, its slow and un-optimized for the mouse, Its not hard to see its optimized for the controller so yet another advantage.

So they screwed up the mouse controls. I’m not surprised considering H2V sounds like it was a cluster-blam!-. Either way, that’s not a function of the aim-assist for the pad. They should fix the mouse controls, sure.

Hackers don’t have anything to do with it – aim-assist for control sticks is a mechanic that’s been present in console FPS foreve.
Now this is where YOU stuffed up big time. THIS IS A PC NOT A CONSOLE, THERE IS NO NEED FOR AIM ASSIST FOR PC's

The platform is not relevant – the input device is. The platform could be a PC, it could be a console, it could be a cybernetic dog from the future with a LCD screen on it’s back. If you want people using two different input devices to compete in a game, those devices have to be balanced. That’s not stuffing up, it’s common sense.

A bit of aim-assistance for control sticks is nothing like an illegal aimbot for mouse which does the work for you, and I’m sure you know that.
Obviously you've never used an aim-bot. Well I have (and hated it). It works almost completely the same way as a controller with auto-aim, only where a controller uses auto-aim when your reticule is close to the enemy , an auto-aim hack for mouse can lock onto the enemies head when your not directly looking at him. But you must do this with a combination key so it requires skill (not much of cause). So if a hacker makes an auto-aim for the mouse that works the same way as a controller (have to actually aim near the enemy for it to lock on) than that should even the odds.

Of course that’s not evening the odds. That’s conferring an advantage on the mouse player, because they were already one up to start with. Hence the pad aim-assist going in in the first place. That is evening the odds. What is difficult to grasp about that?

The idea is that they want two players of equal skill with their chosen input device will be evenly matched. So, a certain amount of aim-assist must be applied to the pad to make up for the natural accuracy of mouselook. If the devs have screwed up and given too much aim-assist to the pad player, then that is a mistake. But to be honest, it sounds like you guys are just -blam!-ing because the odds aren’t stacked in your favour anymore.

  • 07.03.2007 9:36 AM PDT
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Posted by: RhythmKiller
The idea is that they want two players of equal skill with their chosen input device will be evenly matched. So, a certain amount of aim-assist must be applied to the pad to make up for the natural accuracy of mouselook. If the devs have screwed up and given too much aim-assist to the pad player, then that is a mistake. But to be honest, it sounds like you guys are just -blam!-ing because the odds aren’t stacked in your favour anymore.


Precisely, the odds are stacked up in YOUR favour. The mouse and keyboards where designed for PC use, the controllers where designed for console use. There is no need to give users with a controller a upper hand if they are using it on the PC just because users with a mouse and keyboard can aim better. And now that they have screwed up the aiming for mouse in H2V while at the same time given controllers a further advantage just doesn't seem right.

All I can say is that if two equally skilled people (one with a mouse and the other with a controller with auto-aim) where in a server 1 on 1. And if the person with the controller comes out on top, can't say he's the better player due the the auto-aim assistance.

Thats like saying;
Theres 2 cars, ones a high performance V8 supercar, the other is a high performance rally car. They have the same amount of power, weigh the same and handle the same, the only exception is the wheels (one being designed for flat roads, the other designed for rally). Now these two cars are going to race on a flat road, to even the odds the V8 has reduced handling while the rally car has reduced weight and more power with traction control.

Now you can't tell me thats not unfair.

[Edited on 07.03.2007 10:55 AM PDT]

  • 07.03.2007 10:09 AM PDT
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Everyone has the option of using a mouse and keyboard, but not everyone has the option to use a controller.

Give them both auto aim, or neither of them.

This is a PC, not a console.

  • 07.03.2007 10:40 AM PDT
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Posted by: Btcc22
Everyone has the option of using a mouse and keyboard, but not everyone has the option to use a controller.

Give them both auto aim, or neither of them.

This is a PC, not a console.


LOL, I forgot about "but not everyone has the option to use a controller."

Thx for bringing that up :-)

  • 07.03.2007 10:54 AM PDT
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No Auto-aim at all. It is PC, not console. Let them use controllers if they want, but its Halo for PC, if its too hard play Xbox, or use your mouse like you are supposed to.

  • 07.03.2007 12:06 PM PDT
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Posted by: AfroMan117
No Auto-aim at all. It is PC, not console. Let them use controllers if they want, but its Halo for PC, if its too hard play Xbox, or use your mouse like you are supposed to.


Exactly, there should be NO auto-aim for anything on the PC. And using the excuse "Its to help give aiming assistance to unskilled players" isn't a good enough excuse. You want auto-aim, play the XBOX, theres no need to bring that -blam!- to the PC.

  • 07.03.2007 1:18 PM PDT

No one likes a smart ass.....especially another smart ass!

I think I'll log on here in a while and kick some ass with my 360 controller.

  • 07.03.2007 2:10 PM PDT

Hello! Star Wars FTW. Also, join the MAW group. Please?

Posted by: Nomaderwho
I think I'll log on here in a while and kick some ass with my 360 controller.


Blood starting to boil...

  • 07.03.2007 3:06 PM PDT
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You all lose! Cellphone gaming FTW!

  • 07.03.2007 3:18 PM PDT

* Pr: ĭnʹtərnĕts: "I hear there's rumors on the uh (pause), Internets...

Oh dear...another one of these threads...-blam!-.

  • 07.03.2007 3:24 PM PDT

Posted by: AfroMan117
No Auto-aim at all. It is PC, not console. Let them use controllers if they want, but its Halo for PC, if its too hard play Xbox, or use your mouse like you are supposed to.


I completely agree with u even if I use a controller. No more auto-aim!!!

  • 07.03.2007 3:39 PM PDT

Join the MAW Clan
X-fire username:Iggwilv
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Fact #1 They put aim-assist/auto-aim in Halo2Vista for players using a controller.

Based on fact #1 we can come to a conclusion that Keyboard/mouse was easier/more accurate then the controller so they put aim assist in to even the field. *kicks dead horse*

However there are some assumptions and myths that arise from the above fact that are incorrect.

Incorrect assumption #1 The keyboard/mouse is better then the controller. They are different not better or worse. They're are 5 million Halo X-box players that can attest to that.

Myth #1 I got pwned cuz he was using a controller with auto-aim.
*breaks glass, pulls handle*
*siren of approaching Waaaambulance*
You got pwned because the player had better map awareness, map control, better weapons set, used the environment better, controlled the power-ups I can go on but I think you get the point. If there was that much of a differewnce Staticx(a KB/M player) would not roll through a map getting twice as many headshots as everyone else in the game.

Shut up and play!

  • 07.03.2007 8:35 PM PDT
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They can just end all of this by just issuing a patch which eliminates the auto aim altogether
furthermore the game should be able to then detect whether anyone tries to use an outside aimbot hack.
once this hack is detected, that persons CD Key should then be put on a blacklist and banned permanently from all online play
and their live gold account should be revoked and banned with no refund, along with their IP address being reported for criminal activity as well!!!!

  • 07.03.2007 9:07 PM PDT

Now, in the quantum moment before the closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time. I know who you are. You are destiny.

Posted by: The 3rd Chief
I have a stupid question.
If you use a controller on h2vista is there still auto-aim
Have you not read above?! Clearly stated pal, even by the kid who started this thread. Kthx.

This one goes for Kim.

[EDIT]

Note: Had been stated below.

Posted by: Nomaderwho
I'd still use the controller even if there was no aim assist. And I would still come in at the top or near the top of my team in kills. I played Halo PC with a controller the whole time and continuously finished at the top or near the top. Aim assist only helps those that can't keep the reticule on the guys head. To me, I think the whole this is just an excuse to -blam!-. H2 for the 360 had people using keyboard and mouse and you didn't see me complaining.
QFT!!!

How can you even know you would do so great if all of your time playing Halo 2 Vista is with auto-aim. Don't come saying we PC players are whiners because we do not like auto-aim. Like previously stated, auto-aim is NOT enabled in PC games, even if ported from a console itself, not in a legit way atleast, unless with our main subject here which is Halo 2 Vista. That is why we consider it a hack or trap. READ what other people say before you reply. By the way, people using keyboards in Halo 2 in the XBox had the same auto-aim, so that is why you console players did not complain. In fact, of the various of Halo 2 XBox players I have met and known, only about 3 of 56 of them knew about Halo 2 players playing with keyboards. It is not common knowledge for the simple fact that a player using a keyboard + a mouse did not make a difference from the regular rookie or "pro" playing with a controller

[Edited on 07.03.2007 9:52 PM PDT]

  • 07.03.2007 9:26 PM PDT

Now, in the quantum moment before the closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time. I know who you are. You are destiny.

[EDIT]

Double-Post.

[Edited on 07.03.2007 9:51 PM PDT]

  • 07.03.2007 9:48 PM PDT
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Posted by: Beowul7
How can you even know you would do so great if all of your time playing Halo 2 Vista is with auto-aim. Don't come saying we PC players are whiners because we do not like auto-aim. Like previously stated, auto-aim is NOT enabled in PC games, even if ported from a console itself, not in a legit way atleast, unless with our main subject here which is Halo 2 Vista. That is why we consider it a hack or trap. READ what other people say before you reply. By the way, people using keyboards in Halo 2 in the XBox had the same auto-aim, so that is why you console players did not complain. In fact, of the various of Halo 2 XBox players I have met and known, only about 3 of 56 of them knew about Halo 2 players playing with keyboards. It is not common knowledge for the simple fact that a player using a keyboard + a mouse did not make a difference from the regular rookie or "pro" playing with a controller


Exactly, so its a simple procedure to disable auto-aim for the controllers or enable them for mouse and keyboard. Preferably disable them altogether.

  • 07.04.2007 12:49 AM PDT

Posted by: Fake
Precisely, the odds are stacked up in YOUR favour. The mouse and keyboards where designed for PC use, the controllers where designed for console use. There is no need to give users with a controller a upper hand if they are using it on the PC just because users with a mouse and keyboard can aim better.

It’s not an upper hand. It’s an equal hand.

And now that they have screwed up the aiming for mouse in H2V while at the same time given controllers a further advantage just doesn't seem right.
Like I say, it’s a shame that the mouse controls were one of the many things they screwed up - but that’s not a deliberate implementation so it has no bearing in the design philosphy of compensating for control sticks. I’m all for them giving you decent controls.

All I can say is that if two equally skilled people (one with a mouse and the other with a controller with auto-aim) where in a server 1 on 1. And if the person with the controller comes out on top, can't say he's the better player due the the auto-aim assistance.
And if he didn’t have it, the mouse player couldn’t say he’s the better player because he’s using an easier input device.


Theres 2 cars, ones a high performance V8 supercar, the other is a high performance rally car. They have the same amount of power, weigh the same and handle the same, the only exception is the wheels (one being designed for flat roads, the other designed for rally). Now these two cars are going to race on a flat road, to even the odds the V8 has reduced handling while the rally car has reduced weight and more power with traction control.

Now you can't tell me thats not unfair.

It depends. Are you trying to see who has the better car, or who is the better driver? The cars should be made as equal as possible if it is the latter case. That is fair.

Posted by: AfroMan117
No Auto-aim at all. It is PC, not console. Let them use controllers if they want, but its Halo for PC, if its too hard play Xbox, or use your mouse like you are supposed to.

How you choose to think about aim-assistance is of no interest to me, nor the devs. The fact is, the reason a little aim-assistance was originally put into console games and is not present in PC games is because of the input device, nothing else. Not the player, not the platform. So you can -blam!- about PC games having never had aim assistance, but really it’s games designed to be played with the mouse you are referring to. This game is designed from the ground up to be played with different input devices – so claiming you’re supposed to use a mouse is redundant.

  • 07.04.2007 4:14 AM PDT
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Halo fans have waited years for Halo PC to come out. A lot of them did not want an XBOX and are solely PC gamers that use proper keyboard and mouse support for their games. Now that Halo 2 has come to Vista we find that it seem to be specifically designed for the controller but also support keyboard and mouse. What the hell is up with that??? they are trying to turn the PC into an emulated console.

I don't give a -blam!- if this auto-aim is to help assist in aiming better, but it should NOT be used on the PC. If a player doesn't know how to aim with a controller than don't bloody use one. You don't see players using a mouse who can't aim properly with it complain do you? And don't forget that you CAN use a mouse and keyboard for the XBOX and it DOES support auto-aim as do the controls.

IMHO, although its great that Halo 2 has finally been released onto PC, it was MUCH better of on the XBOX, it seems hardly anything has been changed except players with controllers get auto-aim assistance while mouse and keyboard users don't. But you DO get auto-aim assistance when using a mouse and keyboard on the XBOX, and you don't hear anyone complain about it.



[Edited on 07.04.2007 4:31 AM PDT]

  • 07.04.2007 4:31 AM PDT
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Posted by: Meathax
along with their IP address being reported for criminal activity as well!!!!


Hello? Police? Yeah, somebody was using an aimbot!

Aimbots aren't illegal, and you couldn't keep a wall hacker inside a jail cell for long.

Oh, and agreed with the poster above. If you're too awful to aim using a controller without help then just don't use it, or learn.

[Edited on 07.04.2007 4:56 AM PDT]

  • 07.04.2007 4:43 AM PDT
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Just give the people some time to play then they'll become 1337

  • 07.04.2007 5:26 AM PDT

Posted by: Fake
I don't give a -blam!- if this auto-aim is to help assist in aiming better, but it should NOT be used on the PC. If a player doesn't know how to aim with a controller than don't bloody use one. You don't see players using a mouse who can't aim properly with it complain do you? And don't forget that you CAN use a mouse and keyboard for the XBOX and it DOES support auto-aim as do the controls.

Stop. Ignoring. The. FACTS.

The controller aim-assistance in H2V is NOT put in to compensate for people who don’t know how to aim with a controller. It’s put in to try and put the mouse and the control pad on an equal playing field, for the last damn time. Why do you ignore this over and over and over again?

[Edited on 07.04.2007 5:28 AM PDT]

  • 07.04.2007 5:28 AM PDT
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Posted by: RhythmKiller
Stop. Ignoring. The. FACTS.

The controller aim-assistance in H2V is NOT put in to compensate for people who don’t know how to aim with a controller. It’s put in to try and put the mouse and the control pad on an equal playing field, for the last damn time. Why do you ignore this over and over and over again?


And why do you keep ignoring the facts that this is a PC not a console. PC's have NO need for auto-aim, doesn't matter if its from a controller of a keyboard and mouse, THIS IS A PC, if you want auto-aim, play the damn game on a console.

And like I've stated above, auto-aim is enabled for BOTH controllers and mouse and keyboard for the XBOX yet you don't hear anyone complain do you? But yet, when it comes to a PC, ONLY the controller deserves auto-aim, like wtf???.

And once again, like I stated above, If you can't aim properly with a controller, than don't bloody use one, use a mouse and keyboard instead like you should be doing.

  • 07.04.2007 5:49 AM PDT

Posted by: Fake
And why do you keep ignoring the facts that this is a PC not a console. PC's have NO need for auto-aim, doesn't matter if its from a controller of a keyboard and mouse, THIS IS A PC, if you want auto-aim, play the damn game on a console.

You're insanely deluded. It is totally irrelevant to this issue that the game is on PC. That means nothing. The game has been designed for both input devices to compete with each other on the same platform. You don't have aim-assistance on the console simply because it's a console. You have aim-assistance because control sticks are less accurate than mouse-look.

And like I've stated above, auto-aim is enabled for BOTH controllers and mouse and keyboard for the XBOX yet you don't hear anyone complain do you? But yet, when it comes to a PC, ONLY the controller deserves auto-aim, like wtf???
Aim-assistance is not "enabled" for M&K on the xbox. Mouse and keyboard are not even actually supported by the xbox. The adapters in question are 3rd party peripherals, which are designed to fool the console. Unlike H2V, the game was not designed for two different input devices - just one. If it were, then you'd see the same situation.

And once again, like I stated above, If you can't aim properly with a controller, than don't bloody use one, use a mouse and keyboard instead like you should be doing.
What 'you should be doing' is completely a fabrication of your own preconceptions. As is this whole issue, to be frank. You refuse to digest the concept that they WANT people to be able to use joypads too, and instead choose to concern yourself with irrelevant differences you perceive with the platforms - differences which have no bearing on the decision to balance the input devices they want people to use.

  • 07.04.2007 6:12 AM PDT

Better to die on your feet then live on your knees!

Time for your PissTest.

First let me say I have used a controller both console and PC games (motion sickness with mouse) for about 12 years, used one for Halo PC since it's release for 4 years, I played CAL, TWL and KW when nothing else was left.

I was known as solid player with a great pistol, heavy weapons, map awareness, teamwork but did suffer a weaker sniper from the controller use, KMB players used both skill and aimbots against me and my teams over the years and I never once complained about the advantage of the KBM user as I made the choice to play controller.

USB controllers have been around in PC gaming for many many years long before xbox was even thought of, so the "it's pc and not console doesn't fly with me."

The mouse speeds are part of the balance of the game and in a interview with one designer it was stated that when they tested the KMB players vs controller players there was no advantage from one side to the next.

I have seen both users in pubs and scrims and have seen some great hit % by KBM users and some bad hit % from controller users, I have played H2 only on vista and have outplayed other controller users who have played the xbox version for years, can also now go into h2 on xbox with the same results.

I have always been a controller player and have no desire to change my gaming likes or dislikes because a KBM user might think I somehow am cheating and wants to see me on on KBM.

Indeed H2V has been balanced to 50/50 playing field and the KBM users hate it because they are used to having a advantage that's no longer there,

In my case, all that's happened here is they have balanced the play for the PC controller users who prefer it and might have been at a slight disadvantage from the KBM users, however I would still disable if the option was there so as to not give ANY excuse to the KBM player who gets beatdown and help them since it appears they would need every advantage they can get.

Good info on the release can be found here.

http://www.lockergnome.com/nexus/game/2007/06/13/halo-2-vista -reviewed/

Please note this section.

"Since this is a Games for Windows branded title, Halo 2 Vista offers Xbox 360 controller support out of the box. The controller option gives PC gamers the ability to experience a near-perfect console experience. In actuality, gamers who use the controller in a multiplayer environment will gain an auto-targeting functionality that MIGHT tip the scales in their favor. But with that said, there’s NO better accuracy than using a mouse and keyboard combo. Using the sniper rifle has NEVER been quicker or more accurate with a mouse."

So to wrap this up, if you find yourself getting owned up by a controller user who has been playing for years on console systems then practice more aim and complain less of aim assist, the good players are above those excuses.

[Edited on 07.04.2007 7:13 AM PDT]

  • 07.04.2007 6:20 AM PDT

Now, in the quantum moment before the closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time. I know who you are. You are destiny.

Posted by: RhythmKiller
Posted by: Fake
And why do you keep ignoring the facts that this is a PC not a console. PC's have NO need for auto-aim, doesn't matter if its from a controller of a keyboard and mouse, THIS IS A PC, if you want auto-aim, play the damn game on a console.

You're insanely deluded. It is totally irrelevant to this issue that the game is on PC. That means nothing. The game has been designed for both input devices to compete with each other on the same platform. You don't have aim-assistance on the console simply because it's a console. You have aim-assistance because control sticks are less accurate than mouse-look.

And like I've stated above, auto-aim is enabled for BOTH controllers and mouse and keyboard for the XBOX yet you don't hear anyone complain do you? But yet, when it comes to a PC, ONLY the controller deserves auto-aim, like wtf???
Aim-assistance is not "enabled" for M&K on the xbox. Mouse and keyboard are not even actually supported by the xbox. The adapters in question are 3rd party peripherals, which are designed to fool the console. Unlike H2V, the game was not designed for two different input devices - just one. If it were, then you'd see the same situation.

And once again, like I stated above, If you can't aim properly with a controller, than don't bloody use one, use a mouse and keyboard instead like you should be doing.
What 'you should be doing' is completely a fabrication of your own preconceptions. As is this whole issue, to be frank. You refuse to digest the concept that they WANT people to be able to use joypads too, and instead choose to concern yourself with irrelevant differences you perceive with the platforms - differences which have no bearing on the decision to balance the input devices they want people to use.

Posted by: RhythmKiller
Posted by: Fake
And why do you keep ignoring the facts that this is a PC not a console. PC's have NO need for auto-aim, doesn't matter if its from a controller of a keyboard and mouse, THIS IS A PC, if you want auto-aim, play the damn game on a console.

You're insanely deluded. It is totally irrelevant to this issue that the game is on PC. That means nothing. The game has been designed for both input devices to compete with each other on the same platform. You don't have aim-assistance on the console simply because it's a console. You have aim-assistance because control sticks are less accurate than mouse-look.

And like I've stated above, auto-aim is enabled for BOTH controllers and mouse and keyboard for the XBOX yet you don't hear anyone complain do you? But yet, when it comes to a PC, ONLY the controller deserves auto-aim, like wtf???
Aim-assistance is not "enabled" for M&K on the xbox. Mouse and keyboard are not even actually supported by the xbox. The adapters in question are 3rd party peripherals, which are designed to fool the console. Unlike H2V, the game was not designed for two different input devices - just one. If it were, then you'd see the same situation.

And once again, like I stated above, If you can't aim properly with a controller, than don't bloody use one, use a mouse and keyboard instead like you should be doing.
What 'you should be doing' is completely a fabrication of your own preconceptions. As is this whole issue, to be frank. You refuse to digest the concept that they WANT people to be able to use joypads too, and instead choose to concern yourself with irrelevant differences you perceive with the platforms - differences which have no bearing on the decision to balance the input devices they want people to use.


Lest I will quote myself one more time, shall I?
Posted by: Beowul7
How can you even know you would do so great if all of your time playing Halo 2 Vista is with auto-aim. Don't come saying we PC players are whiners because we do not like auto-aim. Like previously stated, auto-aim is NOT enabled in PC games, even if ported from a console itself, not in a legit way atleast, unless with our main subject here which is Halo 2 Vista. That is why we consider it a hack or trap. READ what other people say before you reply. By the way, people using keyboards in Halo 2 in the XBox had the same auto-aim, so that is why you console players did not complain. In fact, of the various of Halo 2 XBox players I have met and known, only about 3 of 56 of them knew about Halo 2 players playing with keyboards. It is not common knowledge for the simple fact that a player using a keyboard + a mouse did not make a difference from the regular rookie or "pro" playing with a controller.

Let's recap things for a moment, too. A guy playing with a controller comes and complains of getting booted out of a server for using auto-aim. Yet some people explain why it is, and then you come and start bashing these facts to replace them with fancy words. You're quite smart when it comes to changing and fixing subjects to your pleasure. I mean, you just said, or wrote, that Fake was telling you what to do, and that he had his own false ideals. Come on, please don't bull-blam!- us with all those words coming right from the dictionary. And sticking to the subject more, it is true that people on the XBox utilizing a keyboard and a mouse got a auto-aim, however, it was NOT supported, while the controller is supported in H2V, and I do give you that, Rythm. And lastly, but not least said, you, technically, should be using a keyboard and a mouse, not a controller. Not in an imperative way of saying, and Fake did not mean it in such a way either. Face the facts, your fighting a losing war Rythm, get over it.

  • 07.04.2007 6:38 AM PDT