Halo 1 & 2 for PC
This topic has moved here: Subject: PC Gamers vs. Console gamers
  • Subject: PC Gamers vs. Console gamers
Subject: PC Gamers vs. Console gamers
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Lateski.... I know that some people can use a controller very well. A lot of them are in the higher-grade of players, like this guy you're talking about.
However, head to head, a mouse and keyboard will win. If I could clone myself I would, to prove it.
I play the 360 quite a bit, I'm not a slouch at the controller. I'm sure if I happened to use in in HPC I'd do ok. But I rarely get beaten by a controller user... I'd say that I lose to a controller guy one out of one hundred times I play a match with them.... if they happen to be very good.

[Edited on 08.11.2007 11:37 AM PDT]

  • 08.11.2007 11:37 AM PDT
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That's why I was never able to get why the M/K and Controller crowds were always at each others throats. There isn't that much of a difference for the most part, both have there advantages and disadvantages depending on the game type.

The real people to be pissed at are the game developers for giving one an unfair advantage over the other.

Of course for H2-V the advantage is built in because H2 began life as a console game with the control features reliant on a limited controller set-up. Emporting it to the PC put the M/K crowd at a slight disadvantage. If it had been a game like Delta Force (only used because of my earlier mention) al of the hotkeyed (f-key) functions would have to be dumbed down for console (scrowling menues a'la Socom) which would actually give the keyboard user at an advantage, being able to immediately access functions that the controller user would have to divert his attention from gameplay to sort out from menues.

My 2 cents. Why should the discussion get turned into a argument?

I've never understood why someone who doesn't want to discuss the issue any further would bother to post a response anouncing his dislike of a topic. I guess that's why their called a$$#0les.

[Edited on 08.11.2007 6:16 PM PDT]

  • 08.11.2007 6:06 PM PDT
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Posted by: C Moth
My 2 cents. Why should the discussion get turned into a argument?
It seems that the word "argument" has a negative connotation to it, when there's nothing wrong with aruing per se. In fact, arguments can lead to enlightened, intelligent conversations; alas, this rarely happens in the Internet, and even less so on Bungie.net.

  • 08.11.2007 7:31 PM PDT
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I think what you are referring to is a "debate", a reasoned exchange of contradictory positions (why am I getting an "argument sketch" vibe?)

An argument, particularly when you consider what normally occurs on internet boards ("You're a towel".... "No, YOU'RE a towel!") generally devolves into the requisite name calling and tree pissing.

  • 08.11.2007 8:16 PM PDT
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Tree Pissing on the net FTW.

But really, we argue on the forums because a lot of our topics have to do with opinion. But It goes in waves.... angry junk and then we start talking sense.

  • 08.11.2007 11:19 PM PDT
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Posted by: juryben
I'm good with controller and M&K and what I have notice is that controller = close combat, M&K = long range. So really it's just how you play.

Close Combat: Controller > M&K
Long Range: M&K > Controller

You have to claw to be effective at close range with a controller. It's an incredibly uncomfortable and difficult way to position your fingers just to gain the ability to aim AND press A, X, Y and especially B (melee) at the same time. Close range combat IMO is best done with a M&K because you never have to relinquish control of the mouse to press the button to melee on the keyboard.

  • 08.12.2007 2:51 AM PDT
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aka lino4

Most of the PC issues posted here are the result of PEBKAC.

Posted by: Fatso
Posted by: juryben
I'm good with controller and M&K and what I have notice is that controller = close combat, M&K = long range. So really it's just how you play.

Close Combat: Controller > M&K
Long Range: M&K > Controller

You have to claw to be effective at close range with a controller. It's an incredibly uncomfortable and difficult way to position your fingers just to gain the ability to aim AND press A, X, Y and especially B (melee) at the same time. Close range combat IMO is best done with a M&K because you never have to relinquish control of the mouse to press the button to melee on the keyboard.


I've seen people good with the controller. When it's all you have, you learn to make headshots with it. Some people are comfortable with that, others are not.

  • 08.12.2007 6:04 AM PDT
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Posted by: Fatso
Posted by: juryben
I'm good with controller and M&K and what I have notice is that controller = close combat, M&K = long range. So really it's just how you play.

Close Combat: Controller > M&K
Long Range: M&K > Controller

You have to claw to be effective at close range with a controller. It's an incredibly uncomfortable and difficult way to position your fingers just to gain the ability to aim AND press A, X, Y and especially B (melee) at the same time. Close range combat IMO is best done with a M&K because you never have to relinquish control of the mouse to press the button to melee on the keyboard.
+1337

  • 08.13.2007 6:26 AM PDT
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Posted by: Master Kim
+1337

Your abuse of the English language is truly hearbreaking.

Why, Kim? Whyyyy?

*dies*


Also: There's no support for HPC1 controllers, are there? There's no autoaim there... how do those players fare compared to KB/M?

  • 08.13.2007 6:44 AM PDT

Slaying noobs since 2007.

It was 'ded'. Leave it that way.

  • 08.13.2007 4:42 PM PDT
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Posted by: Fatso
Posted by: juryben
I'm good with controller and M&K and what I have notice is that controller = close combat, M&K = long range. So really it's just how you play.

Close Combat: Controller > M&K
Long Range: M&K > Controller

You have to claw to be effective at close range with a controller. It's an incredibly uncomfortable and difficult way to position your fingers just to gain the ability to aim AND press A, X, Y and especially B (melee) at the same time. Close range combat IMO is best done with a M&K because you never have to relinquish control of the mouse to press the button to melee on the keyboard.


Im pretty sure he means close combat shooting instead of melee.

[Edited on 09.02.2007 11:37 AM PDT]

  • 09.02.2007 11:36 AM PDT

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JUMP FEET FIRST INTO HELL!!

Posted by: Nomaderwho
I'd still use the controller even if there was no aim assist. And I would still come in at the top or near the top of my team in kills. I played Halo PC with a controller the whole time and continuously finished at the top or near the top. Aim assist only helps those that can't keep the reticule on the guys head. To me, I think the whole this is just an excuse to -blam!-. H2 for the 360 had people using keyboard and mouse and you didn't see me complaining.


I 2ND THAT!!!!

  • 09.02.2007 12:29 PM PDT

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JUMP FEET FIRST INTO HELL!!

Posted by: JustBringIt69
Unfortunatly they give ppl who use a controler an advantage, Aim-bot.


umm ok but you guys do have the faster reaction time right,you guys can always shoot faster,turn quciker,and aim alot faster than we can on a controller all we have is that small about of aim bot that doesnt even work when shooting you from a far.and you guys are quick to complain,it if were up to me i wouldnt want aim-bot but its there and i dont want or like useing M/K as much though i do take the time to raise my skills on it though.but still ya we have some aim bot but it doesnt always help when we are the ones who have to over all put the damn crosshair in you face and pull the trigger right.

  • 09.02.2007 12:30 PM PDT
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Why should we give you an advantage if you willinlgy cripple yourself with an infereior control scheme? It's like me cutting off my leg before a marathon, then somebody giving me a hovercraft.

Sorry charlie, but if you wanna play with the big boys you should either use a mouse, or get used to the limits of a controller.

  • 09.02.2007 2:20 PM PDT

Gaming Systems:
Intel Core i7 720QM (4 cores, 8 threads)
4Gb DDR3-1333mhz
1Gb AMD Radeon HD 4650
Windows 7 64bit

Xbox 360 w/ 20Gb HDD (2008 edition) & XBL Gold.

I have a mixed opinion on this topic. Firstly, i'll stamp on this before the rest of my post, i have nothing against controller users. The closest i come to hating a controller, is with the Wiimote. I play games to relax after a hard day, not to jump and wave around, making a fool of myself, like a Spanish Flea. The 360 controller i find is very comfortable and well designed, so i have no issues with that. What i DO have an issue with controller users playing on H2V however, is if they get auto-aim which makes using their device EASIER to master than a K&M users. That is, in fact, an unfair advantage that should not be given to any decent, civilised gamer. The way Hired Gun have organised this game, i would say, does not really give a controller user any significant advantage over a decent PC Gamer. In fact, i call it "fun". I think it's fun that, if you're a K&M user and pwning controller users even WITH their auto-aim, that really does prove the PC's supremacy once and for all though surely. So i see it as a challenge, make the Halo 2 Vista controller gamers look bad. If they can't even win WITH auto-aim using a controller vs K&M users without, that really is sad now, isn't it?

  • 09.02.2007 5:32 PM PDT
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aka lino4

Most of the PC issues posted here are the result of PEBKAC.

Did anyone ever think that aim assist is geared toward new players?

  • 09.02.2007 7:26 PM PDT
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Posted by: flight maniac
Im pretty sure he means close combat shooting instead of melee.
Bump for great injustice, much?
Posted by: c_marvel360
umm ok but you guys do have the faster reaction time right,you guys can always shoot faster,turn quciker,and aim alot faster than we can on a controller all we have is that small about of aim bot that doesnt even work when shooting you from a far.and you guys are quick to complain,it if were up to me i wouldnt want aim-bot but its there and i dont want or like useing M/K as much though i do take the time to raise my skills on it though.but still ya we have some aim bot but it doesnt always help when we are the ones who have to over all put the damn crosshair in you face and pull the trigger right.
I suppose. When you're not playing with a gamepad, auto-aim is disabled and therefore aiming requires greater dexterity which is achieved through the precision of the mouse. Just because one can do more with a mouse does not mean that it doesn't take more skill than using a gamepad.
Posted by: vincent5
Did anyone ever think that aim assist is geared toward new players?
In UT, when you're playing against bots, it is. On consoles, it's a necessity for decent controls.

  • 09.02.2007 7:33 PM PDT
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Posted by: vincent5
Did anyone ever think that aim assist is geared toward newbie players?


Fixed it... you had a typo.

  • 09.03.2007 2:34 AM PDT
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OK OK OK OK
RELAX PPL!!!
TAKE A DEEP BREATH
Now lemme talk :P
ok so we all agree that PC and Console are different yes?
Good, now say im VS a guy on Console ( me PC ) you know how i beat him?
I run up to him AND BEAT HIS SORRY ASS DOWN, cause ive played H2 V for quiet a while now, and i tell ya, X Box players cant drive 4 -blam!- DONT GIMME THAT LOOK, admit it! I can dodge locked on rockets, man ever seen an X Box player do that? not alot i can tell.now, As for Melee, ive tried and X Box it is HORRIBLE for melees, i had a guy almost kill me, only to run off in another direction! guess what he ended up dead...See? For an Xbox player, he has the advantage of good ranged ability, Say AYE if your and Xbox player, now say AYE if you can kill someone with melee,FULLY shielded, no sword, at least 5 times in a match? See? PC has the advantage of better look and control, X Box is a console, and there fore a person needs auto-aim to help him, now dont get me wrong, i think the Auto aim is the ONLY thing keeping X box players afloat coupled with a good understanding of the game. Heck i think more to do with People NOT USING THE MOTION TRACKERS!!!! i mean wtf man? i sneak right up player's asses cause they dont pay attention to their rear, BIG MISTAKE so ill end by saying, PC players can brag that they can melee you down, but i think X box players oughta respect PC players with actual skill, but PC players must respect the X box player's lack of smooth control and look movement, so we should just settle differences in game NOT in custom matches

  • 09.03.2007 3:19 AM PDT

Slaying noobs since 2007.

I don't know whether to disagree, or to agree with the above post, mainly because the confusion of little, and much punctuation. :/

  • 09.03.2007 6:02 AM PDT

Posted by: Desert Fox RWTF
I don't know whether to disagree, or to agree with the above post, mainly because the confusion of little, and much punctuation. :/


BUT IT HAD COMMAS!!!!

Lol

  • 09.03.2007 6:16 AM PDT
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Posted by: juryben
I'm good with controller and M&K and what I have notice is that controller = close combat, M&K = long range. So really it's just how you play.

Close Combat: Controller > M&K
Long Range: M&K > Controller

HA! You're kidding, right? When some guy swings around you and blasts you in the back like you could NEVER do with the controller, I hope you rethink that statement.

  • 09.03.2007 7:50 AM PDT

I'd like to speak as a rabid fan of the mouse/keyboard control scheme -- but also as a controler user in H2V. I've played Halo 1 PC for years now, and I've always loved the smooth, consistant, and controlled mouse/keyboard layout. When I went over to my friend's house to play Halo 2 for xbox, I was always appauled by the jerky, difficult-to-hit button layout of the controllers.

Then I got Halo 2 Vista. I intended to use the mouse and keyboard as my primary layout, and I bought a 360 controller to practice with so that I could play against my xbox-laden friends on even ground. After a few minutes toying with the mouse and keyboard combination, I gave it up for good. My reasons were two-fold, and they had nothing to do with the controller. First, the keyboard customization has some annoying bugs that don't allow all of the keyboard controlls that I used in Halo 1. After two years of playing Halo 1 PC, I was extremely annoyed at having to rewire my hands because of a programming bug. Secondly, the mouse controls were AWFUL. The game's framerate dropped significantly whenever I used a mouse, and the sensitivity level was terrible. I turned the mouse sensitivity up to 10, and I still couldn't turn more than about 90 degrees with a single mouse swivel.

Then I tried out the xbox controller, and it was blissfully smooth. It took me a while to learn the layout and master shooting accurately, but now playing H2V online is just as fun as the original Halo was with a mouse and keyboard. Yes, controllers have an advantage -- but that's because H2V nerfed the keyboard and mouse. Autoaim isn't a particular problem. Yes, I make headshots a lot, but I made headshots at nearly the same rate on Halo 1 PC with the mouse -- and that was with WAY more lag. If it were just straight mouse/keyboard vs controller with autoaim, I would bet my money on the mouse and keyboard. The problem is, the mouse controlls suffer from way more than a lack of autoaim.

If you want to see a mouse/keyboard setup in action, go play Halo 1 PC with a controler.

  • 09.04.2007 9:24 PM PDT