Bungie.net Community
This topic has moved here: Subject: Bungie became complacent
  • Subject: Bungie became complacent
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • of 4
Subject: Bungie became complacent

#2 Supporter Halocharts, #11 other account.
"Ordinary love is selfish, deeply rooted in desires and satisfactions. Divine love is without condition, without boundary, without change."
You are all loved beyond measure.
I, like you, am a light-sound-vibration complex that resonates with others. I have hopes and dreams and ambitions, just like you! I AM, and so are you! Yes, we are one and the same, you and I.

Posted by: Tater Salad jr
Note: after witnessing this thread unfold, I feel it is safe to say that both fanbois and critics complain and flame equally at least.



Oh, this thread is even better. The OP is perfectly reasonable, yet he gets called an idiot, a fool, is told to GTFO, is "-blam!-", is commanded to stop playing by dumb fanboys, etc. It's pathetic.

  • 07.15.2007 1:52 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Regarding the original post:

I find it funny that you think we should feel gratitude for Bungie's advertising. Make no mistake, that's what that trailer was--a commercial to feed Halo 3's hype. It was not a favor to us.

Keep in mind, this is coming from a long-time Bungie fan: I agree completely with those that say the E3 trailer was awful. It was a collection of jumbled quick-cuts that may contain little tidbits of gameplay information, but do nothing to convey what makes the Halo series great. Graphically, it wasn't that impressive, because there was no time for the eye to settle on any piece of the picture before it moves on to something else.

Compare this to the portions of the game shown to the press behind closed doors. By all accounts, there the game shines like nothing else. Was it technically on par with games like Killzone 2? Hard to say, but sources say the graphics were fantastic. It wasn't just an issue of the Halo aesthetic being cool enough to overlook problems; the graphics are a high enough quality to make the aesthetic shine far better than it has before, including the beta.

So why didn't Microsoft show something like this to the masses at E3? I cannot even imagine. The difference in quality is astounding. I have no doubt Halo 3 will be a fantastic game, I have no doubt that the graphics will be fantastic, but that trailer was lame.

[Edited on 07.15.2007 2:28 PM PDT]

  • 07.15.2007 2:21 PM PDT

Posted by: je110
Regarding the original post:

I find it funny that you think we should feel gratitude for Bungie's advertising. Make no mistake, that's what that trailer was--a commercial to feed Halo 3's hype. It was not a favor to us.

Keep in mind, this is coming from a long-time Bungie fan: I agree completely with those that say the E3 trailer was awful. It was a collection of jumbled quick-cuts that may contain little tidbits of gameplay information, but do nothing to convey what makes the Halo series great. Graphically, it wasn't that impressive, because there was no time for the eye to settle on any piece of the picture before it moves on to something else.

Compare this to the portions of the game shown to the press behind closed doors. By all accounts, there the game shines like nothing else. Was it technically on par with games like Killzone 2? Hard to say, but sources say the graphics were fantastic. It wasn't just an issue of the Halo aesthetic being cool enough to overlook problems; the graphics are a high enough quality to make the aesthetic shine far better than it has before, including the beta.

So why didn't Microsoft show something like this to the masses at E3? I cannot even imagine. The difference in quality is astounding. I have no doubt Halo 3 will be a fantastic game, I have no doubt that the graphics will be fantastic, but that trailer was lame.


Well, you have a right to your own opinion, and I have a right to disagree.

I don't think that it was exactly lame. Yes, it was a commercial to keep hype up, but it was still something for the fans to enjoy as well. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

As far as the technical aspects go, it was exceptionally stunning across the board. The music stands out as being incredibly well done, not to mention the fact that it was released as an mp3 on B.net shortly after the release of the trailer. I fail to see how that is not fan service.

And, of course, we come to the time-honored debate on graphics. I must once again disagree with you on the trailer. I think that as the trailer is cut and arranged, the graphics look spectacular. If you pause it and look at individual frames, it looks spectacular. The only place that it looks less than amazing is when you first see the Chief, and i would assume because it's uncharacteristic of Halo: dark and gritty. Is the game going to look like Killzone 2? No. Should it? No. People seemed to have gotten their expectations about the game way too high. It's not going to look like real life, nor should it look like real life. I will be a happy camper if the game comes out looking, and much more importantly, playing as fun as that trailer.

I'm not going to tell you to "STFU," or "GTFO." You have a right to think whatever you want about anything. I would like to tell you, however, that you shouldn't ruin it for yourself. I think that's the main problem with the Halo 3 forum. Everyone is trying to make the game out to be something that it's not, and that's a damn shame.

I see that you have faith in the final product, which is good, but why not just enjoy the ride until September 25th?

  • 07.15.2007 2:47 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by:
I'm not going to tell you to "STFU," or "GTFO." You have a right to think whatever you want about anything. I would like to tell you, however, that you shouldn't ruin it for yourself. I think that's the main problem with the Halo 3 forum. Everyone is trying to make the game out to be something that it's not, and that's a damn shame.

I see that you have faith in the final product, which is good, but why not just enjoy the ride until September 25th?


The rest of your post is just difference of opinion, which I have no problem with. The quoted segment though, I singled out because you're missing the point entirely.

It has nothing to do with "ruining" it for myself. Like I said, I'm not criticizing the game at all. My expectations are pretty much right on par with what we've gotten from previous Bungie games--which in turn is a pretty snug fit with what we know of the segment shown behind closed doors at E3. What we were shown as a trailer is nowhere near that. It's not just "faith" in the finished product--there is much better material to represent the game than that. You ask why not just enjoy the ride until September 25th; that's completely beside the point. Just because the game is going to be great, I'm not going to convince myself that a trailer that would not catch my eye for any other product somehow gains entertainment value from having Bungie's name or the Halo logo on it.

I'm not the sort who will complain about these things; it's just a marketing hiccup to me. Indeed, my initial reaction to this trailer was just a rolling of my eyes and moving on. Those who disagree--that's great for them. But when someone comes along and says something to the tune of "be grateful for what you get," and that he's disappointed with the community for giving a negative reaction, that's ridiculous. I am a huge fan of Bungie, and I'm content in knowing that there are some things associated with their products (or even some of the products themselves) that I won't always like. I am also content in my knowledge that these things I don't like will still have some fans. However, when someone gets up on the soap-box (as the original poster did) because some people in Bungie's fan community didn't like something that he enjoyed, that's treading well over the line between reasonable disagreement, and well into the field of probable brown-nosing. That may be what is expected in a specific fan community, but that doesn't make it any less silly.

  • 07.15.2007 6:38 PM PDT

Maybe "faith" was the wrong word, but I think we're on the same page in terms of expectations for the final game. I was asking more along the lines of "why not enjoy the campaign trailer?"

As for the people in the Halo 3 forum, I still think that the majority are a bit overzealous about their supposed disappointment with what Bungie's given us. They really don't seem to realize that the game will be more enjoyable if we don't know everything about it before it comes out, and they don't seem to realize that we won't see full-on final product until September 25th.

Like I've said, they're entitled to feel let down, but they're letting them selves down. I just find it insane that so many people can see the same media, yet such a large population can be disgusted by it, while another large population is blown away by it. The whole thing is kind of absurd.

[Edited on 07.16.2007 10:06 AM PDT]

  • 07.16.2007 12:04 AM PDT
Subject: This community is starting to dissapoint me. *cough*Halo 3 forum*co...

Send me a PM of your email and I'll get you a lockerz invite. 100% legit Thx CarloMorris for pic.

Banshee Master

Absolute Annihilation

I like the graphics :?

  • 07.16.2007 5:51 AM PDT
Subject: Bungie became complacent
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Old Papa Rich
Suffice to say that sometime, a moderator is going to end this account permenantly.

Posted by: je110


I'm not the sort who will complain about these things; it's just a marketing hiccup to me. Indeed, my initial reaction to this trailer was just a rolling of my eyes and moving on. Those who disagree--that's great for them. But when someone comes along and says something to the tune of "be grateful for what you get," and that he's disappointed with the community for giving a negative reaction, that's ridiculous. I am a huge fan of Bungie, and I'm content in knowing that there are some things associated with their products (or even some of the products themselves) that I won't always like. I am also content in my knowledge that these things I don't like will still have some fans. However, when someone gets up on the soap-box (as the original poster did) because some people in Bungie's fan community didn't like something that he enjoyed, that's treading well over the line between reasonable disagreement, and well into the field of probable brown-nosing. That may be what is expected in a specific fan community, but that doesn't make it any less silly.
Way to take my post out of context and twist my words.

As repeated before, I am more dissapointed in the cycle of whining ( not the criticism like some people present- but the whining ). Where one week members whine about the lack of info and when they finally recieve that info, they whine about how its not exactly like they wanted it ( remember now, if people's opinions and expectations are rationally and intelligently posted- that's fine and welcomed; its what forums are here for! Its the constant cycle of unintelligent whining that gives me headaches. ). It reminds me of a five year old screaming at his mother for ice cream and then when he gets it- he doesn't like the wrapper and throws it at his mother. I dunno what exactly to say, but its that kind of bull that dissapoints me. If you dissagree; cool. Good for you.

[Edited on 07.16.2007 12:25 PM PDT]

  • 07.16.2007 12:18 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I think the objective of the trailer was to show the campaign gameplay as underwhleming , instead of overdoing it like with halo 2.

  • 07.16.2007 12:34 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Twisted your words? These are your exact words, no twisting or context shifting:


Posted by: Tater Salad jr
Since the last campaign Vidoc was released, many users would often post, "Where is the next one?" and "We want more campaign footage!!" Now that e3 is here, us Bungie fans are quenched of our thirsty needs for more campaign footage. Yet, instead of gratitude from the members- I see complaints. WTF- Bungie finally gives us what we want and most of us say "those graphics suck!" This dissapoints me. Anyone else dissapointed in the community's negative reaction?


Your words, not mine. You imply we should be grateful for the campaign video, and you state that you are disappointed in the community's negative reaction.

  • 07.16.2007 1:08 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Old Papa Rich
Suffice to say that sometime, a moderator is going to end this account permenantly.

I guess I did not emphasize the cycle of whining enough. ( One that you so deligently ignored in my previous posts )

  • 07.16.2007 1:26 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I simply pointed out that it wasn't in your original post, so your statement on my "twisting your words" was a falsehood.

Now regarding your cycle of whining idea--I didn't ignore it in your previous post because I don't have a response, but because it has already been stated why it doesn't exactly work by others, earlier in the thread. You cannot please everyone. There will always be people who want more--those are the ones asking for it after the vid-doc. There will also always be split opinions on pretty much everything--hence the differences in opinion on the quality of the E3 trailer. So what you describe as a "cycle" of whining is really just the negative opinions that will be a portion of the response to anything official that is released. If we were talking about one person who complained about not enough campaign information, and then the same person complained about the trailer, then there might be some slight justification to your logic, but it's not. It's a huge community, and the splits in opinions happen along different lines, constantly. I'm sure there is some overlap between those who wanted more, and those who were disappointed--that's perfectly understandable though. Just because they wanted more, there is no reason they should be "grateful" for being given something they feel is sub-par.

  • 07.16.2007 1:36 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Old Papa Rich
Suffice to say that sometime, a moderator is going to end this account permenantly.

Posted by: je110
I simply pointed out that it wasn't in your original post, so your statement on my "twisting your words" was a falsehood.

Now regarding your cycle of whining idea--I didn't ignore it in your previous post because I don't have a response, but because it has already been stated why it doesn't exactly work by others, earlier in the thread. You cannot please everyone. There will always be people who want more--those are the ones asking for it after the vid-doc. There will also always be split opinions on pretty much everything--hence the differences in opinion on the quality of the E3 trailer. So what you describe as a "cycle" of whining is really just the negative opinions that will be a portion of the response to anything official that is released. If we were talking about one person who complained about not enough campaign information, and then the same person complained about the trailer, then there might be some slight justification to your logic, but it's not. It's a huge community, and the splits in opinions happen along different lines, constantly. I'm sure there is some overlap between those who wanted more, and those who were disappointed--that's perfectly understandable though. Just because they wanted more, there is no reason they should be "grateful" for being given something they feel is sub-par.
Of course most of this is true, but I have observed, on occasion, the same people complaining about the lack of info also complaining about the trailor. I guess that is my major beef, that is also leaving a bad taste in my mouth.

  • 07.16.2007 1:47 PM PDT
Subject: This community is starting to dissapoint me. *cough*Halo 3 forum*co...

Strange evolution how people have come to believe
That we are it's greatest achievement
We're barely, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves

Posted by: Tater Salad jr
Since the last campaign Vidoc was released, many users would often post, "Where is the next one?" and "We want more campaign footage!!" Now that e3 is here, us Bungie fans are quenched of our thirsty needs for more campaign footage. Yet, instead of gratitude from the members- I see complaints. WTF- Bungie finally gives us what we want and most of us say "those graphics suck!" This dissapoints me. Anyone else dissapointed in the community's negative reaction?

I'm more worried that this is a small example of a greater societal problem. The problem being the need for instant gratification and people projecting their false expectations onto someone else in an attempt to make themsleves feel better about being wrong.

We saw the same response when Halo 2 was released. People build up their own expectations for what they game will be regardless of what Bungie tells them it will be.

I dont see this as Bungie not fulfilling the expectations of its fans, but rather the fans dis-illusioning themselves. The same goes for many game developers, not just Bungie.

  • 07.16.2007 2:09 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

personally i am dissappointed at all the negative feedback on the videos i mean like come on theres been 2 videos? and people are going crazy and sayin the graphisc sucks and this sucks and this should be different. I love how the game looks thats just me but we cant force bungie to overdo the graphics casue those same people will be like its tool flashy and stuff.....theres not way to please everyone in this bunigeifical world

  • 07.16.2007 3:31 PM PDT
Subject: Bungie became complacent
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: ktchong
There's a list of "Hottest Games" on N4G (News4Gamers) front page... Killzone 2 has just overtaken Halo 3 as the number-one hottest game.

It's the same thing over at GameTrailers (i.e., "most popular games") and other websites, which usually have ranking systems that list the most popular games that people talk about the most, search the most, and/or "bookmark" the most.

Halo 3 has been number-one on many of those list for the longest time. Now, Killzone 2 is overtaking Halo 3's popularity at those websites, one by one. This is bad.


Once both games are out then we can judge which is better. From what I've seen Halo 3 is looking to be alot more fun. Theres nothing for us Haloheads to worry about. I saw the extended Killzone trailer which for the last minute and a half was just the player shooting at some tower until it blew up with nothing shooting at him or anything. It looked really boring.

  • 07.16.2007 4:36 PM PDT
Subject: This community is starting to dissapoint me. *cough*Halo 3 forum*co...
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Personally I'm just mildly irritated by the attitude some people have regarding how others should view their relationship with Bungie.

Don't get me wrong, it's not that I don't understand and empathise with those who admire and hold in respect Bungie's prowess when it comes to delivering such amazing games (in particular with the Halo games) or, on a related note, those whom feel a real sense of gratitude for the folks whom have delivered not just a game; but a medium through which some have perhaps formed long friendships and participated in some community in which they felt they belonged.

These are sentiments I can fully appreciate.

What bothers me is when people FORGET the fundamental nature of their relationship with Bungie. That is to say, they forget that they are merely consumers of a (particularly fun and cool) product.

Look, it's not that the Bungie people are some manipulative eggheads simply detached from your thoughts or feelings... it's just that they are involved in a business with a bottom line. You, me, all of us... we are consumers. To those whom hold some inner fantasy about how they are really part of some important piece in the Bungie puzzle... please have some self-respect and at least acknowledge that, although as part of a large group you are a contributor, your mere presence on Bungie.net does not mean Bungie have transferred your name to a hidden list of 'extra special people we consider personal friends'. I hope the implications of this simple fact sink into the heads of at least some of the brighter people whom use this forum regularly.

Regarding the current crimes of the lesser mortals in the Halo 3 forum: This whole graphics argument is not really an issue for me. I played the Beta and, whatever I thought of the graphics, the fact is that not a day goes by when I don't wish I still had the damn Beta to play. Halo 3 is, fundamentally, going to a game rich in quality gameplay. That is why it will succeed... and easily.

All that said, whatever an individual's subjective (or objective in some cases) views on the graphics in Halo 3 are there is simply no need to make pretentious threads about how they are poor Bungie.net members because they are 'ungrateful' or some such rubbish. That is just downright deluded and, furthermore, completely contradictory to the spirit of 'community' you peeps in this forum constantly agonise over. Interestingly, to this one witness of over a year, the agonising continues with much of the usual posturing regarding 'upstanding community members' whilst the rabble whom don't understand how to correctly toe the line are mocked for their poor spelling or general lack of enthusiasm for Weekly Updates (often without a hint of irony).

I am officially more cynical than ever.

  • 07.16.2007 5:05 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Well this could be part of the controversial graphics not being good problem

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDusG7DyIbY

Listen to the comments after 5:45, if u make a promise about graphics being the same as the E3 2006 trailer, it will be scrutinized to the most miniscule detail. Add that to the fact that the HALO franchise is the ultimate bandwagon for microsoft's xbox/360, I understand why people get little touchy about the graphics not being up to par with other games, I KNOW GAMEPLAY IS THE REAL FACTOR FOR A GAME, but since we haven't played it yet, all we can do is nag for the next 10-11 weeks.

  • 07.17.2007 12:09 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: jugganaut
Well this could be part of the controversial graphics not being good problem

Listen to the comments after 5:45, if u make a promise about graphics being the same as the E3 2006 trailer, it will be scrutinized to the most miniscule detail. Add that to the fact that the HALO franchise is the ultimate bandwagon for microsoft's xbox/360, I understand why people get little touchy about the graphics not being up to par with other games, I KNOW GAMEPLAY IS THE REAL FACTOR FOR A GAME, but since we haven't played it yet, all we can do is nag for the next 10-11 weeks.


I can't disagree with you at all. What you've observed is correct and has crossed my mind on several occasions. This is exactly why I make a distinction between various elements of Bungie; in particular the 'PR' element. Do you remember the Halo 2 'gameplay' unveiling...

Yeah. History repeating.

  • 07.17.2007 1:34 AM PDT

Posted by: Chomskyite
What bothers me is when people FORGET the fundamental nature of their relationship with Bungie. That is to say, they forget that they are merely consumers of a (particularly fun and cool) product.

Look, it's not that the Bungie people are some manipulative eggheads simply detached from your thoughts or feelings... it's just that they are involved in a business with a bottom line. You, me, all of us... we are consumers. To those whom hold some inner fantasy about how they are really part of some important piece in the Bungie puzzle... please have some self-respect and at least acknowledge that, although as part of a large group you are a contributor, your mere presence on Bungie.net does not mean Bungie have transferred your name to a hidden list of 'extra special people we consider personal friends'. I hope the implications of this simple fact sink into the heads of at least some of the brighter people whom use this forum regularly.

I don't know if I agree with that. If you were talking about any other video-game company (and I don't say this as a Bungie fan, I say this as someone who has looked at other companies' "communities"), I might agree, but Bungie, regardless of rhyme or reason, at least appears to have a much deeper connection with its fanbase. You could pick out any one aspect of B.Net and hold it up against the competition, and the winner is clear. Is this a matter or money? Possibly, but the connection's been there since before Halo and Microsoft. Sure, it's nothing compared to now, but that's the natural progression of things. The most that I've seen other studios do is a "Developer Diary" or two on IGN to hype the games up, but they are abandoned shortly thereafter. *cough* Bungie Podcast *cough*

Do these things make Bungie a (financially) better studio and feed the bottom line? Possibly, but I think that they may both be symptoms of the same thing. Bungie's a great company, they make great games, and they try their best to take care of the fans. Period. I think it's nice that they take us along on the ride, regardless of the intentions.

EDIT: I'm sure that there are other companies that have regular updates and/or fan forums, etc., but I highly doubt that any of them are anywhere near as robust as Bungie. Let's not forget the viral ad campaigns and the beta (which felt like a Microsoft idea, but was advertising and fan-service as well).

[Edited on 07.17.2007 1:53 AM PDT]

  • 07.17.2007 1:49 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Bungie is Boss
I don't know if I agree with that. If you were talking about any other video-game company (and I don't say this as a Bungie fan, I say this as someone who has looked at other companies' "communities"), I might agree, but Bungie, regardless of rhyme or reason, at least appears to have a much deeper connection with its fanbase


If I were to insist that the only thing on Bungie's mind at all times was money I'd be as off the mark as the very people I'm getting at in my posts.

It is, of course, not entirely black and white. That said, the growth of Bungie and its importance to Microsoft will ultimately bring changes and considerations with ramifications for how Bungie both view and behave with 'the fans'; not rocket science really.

PR though, after all is said and done, is PR. Now the finished product... that is another story entirely :)

  • 07.17.2007 2:02 AM PDT

Posted by: Chomskyite

It is, of course, not entirely black and white. That said, the growth of Bungie and its importance to Microsoft will ultimately bring changes and considerations with ramifications for how Bungie both view and behave with 'the fans'


I'll give you that. Let's hope that "changes" mean a more robust community team and more interaction this the fans.

  • 07.17.2007 2:21 AM PDT

Posted by: Bungie is Boss
Posted by: Chomskyite

It is, of course, not entirely black and white. That said, the growth of Bungie and its importance to Microsoft will ultimately bring changes and considerations with ramifications for how Bungie both view and behave with 'the fans'


I'll give you that. Let's hope that "changes" mean a more robust community team and more interaction this the fans.

When you read in video game magazine as popular as Gamepro a statement like, "But if Halo 3 has proved anything, it's that Bungie Studios values the contributions of its users far more than those of game critics and industry pundits" it says a lot about the company, their community(and team), as well as interaction with their fans.

  • 07.17.2007 10:35 AM PDT

  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • of 4