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  • Subject: Double Shotting/ Bxr-ing in ranked matches
Subject: Double Shotting/ Bxr-ing in ranked matches

Circumstances do not make the man, they merely reveal himself to himself.

wat if we got.....1000 ppl to pm him?? hehehe

  • 07.18.2007 12:50 PM PDT
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Posted by: Gubi420
Just a question to u guys, do u think that we could, in any way, request that bungie post one of these messages? Exalted, what would ur answer b on the vote?


I honestly think that their response would be something along these lines:

The issue of BxR is self-evident: it is a glitch, and therefore it is cheating. All players that have read their Xbox Live Terms of Use should understand that using BxR is cheating, and that they can get banned for it.
This response, if given, is a dodge. It is a refusal to accept that there is an issue, and is, in my opinion, the lazy way out. Something needs to be done, and nothing has been.

Edit: My answer to the vote? Do you mean if I consider it to be cheating or not? My logic says it isn't, but I will fully accept anything that Bungie states to be the rules on Xbox Live.

[Edited on 07.18.2007 12:53 PM PDT]

  • 07.18.2007 12:52 PM PDT

Circumstances do not make the man, they merely reveal himself to himself.

It does seem like a lazy way out because they wouldnt really be doing anything about it, but if this is a lazy way, what do you think would be a more appropriate way that may have more of an effect?

  • 07.18.2007 12:59 PM PDT

RIP Halo 2.

Bungie officially considers it cheating. No one of a reasonable skill level does.

  • 07.18.2007 1:02 PM PDT
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Posted by: Gubi420
It does seem like a lazy way out because they wouldnt really be doing anything about it, but if this is a lazy way, what do you think would be a more appropriate way that may have more of an effect?

It sounds bad, but it's Bungie's problem. The challenge is to come up with a solution to the problem of alerting all players what they can get banned for, specifically button glitches. Bungie has released a game where the mechanics are broken, and use of the broken mechanic can lose you your matchmaking privileges. It is unfair to ban people for an issue so clouded.

  • 07.18.2007 1:04 PM PDT

Circumstances do not make the man, they merely reveal himself to himself.

Geez...I really hope that Bungie fixes this thing in Halo3, well not just the BR Glitches but all others that involve guns. I have a bad feeling that they wont get rid of all of them. Some guy with no life will eventually discover a new "noob combo" a new "BXR" all that stuff...i guess its inevitable

  • 07.18.2007 1:06 PM PDT

Circumstances do not make the man, they merely reveal himself to himself.

*shoots self in head* jk jk, yea but remember its only the beta, Bungie can fix them by September...or at least i hope...dun dun dun

  • 07.18.2007 1:13 PM PDT

My last thread: Why Reach Sucks

<3 Foman

lol lets see...

Reload Glitches:

BxR Quick kill on an enemy, or when reloading, once the clip hits the gun hit BxR and just continue shooting, "B X R Reload"
RRx
Lxx (auto reload)
BxB
YY

I'm just done saying the same thing over and over. There's a lot of different things bungie didn't intend for us to do that aren't glitches. Like creating spawn traps in 1v1 by standing somewhere. These aren't cheating, they're combos you can use with most weapons to give yourself more of an advantage, but at the same time they can easily put you at a disadvantage. Cheating is usually clear cut and will give you an obvious unfair advantage. Button combos are just something else you can do to give you the edge, but at the same time can be your downfall. It's not really cheating, just like it's your own fault for being passed on the highway for doing 55. We got places to be, like up the leaderboard.

  • 07.18.2007 1:14 PM PDT
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Posted by: Zach The One
lol lets see...

Reload Glitches:

BxR Quick kill on an enemy, or when reloading, once the clip hits the gun hit BxR and just continue shooting, "B X R Reload"
RRx
Lxx (auto reload)
BxB
YY

I'm just done saying the same thing over and over. There's a lot of different things bungie didn't intend for us to do that aren't glitches. Like creating spawn traps in 1v1 by standing somewhere. These aren't cheating, they're combos you can use with most weapons to give yourself more of an advantage, but at the same time they can easily put you at a disadvantage. Cheating is usually clear cut and will give you an obvious unfair advantage. Button combos are just something else you can do to give you the edge, but at the same time can be your downfall. It's not really cheating, just like it's your own fault for being passed on the highway for doing 55. We got places to be, like up the leaderboard.


Creating spawn traps is a glitch. It was an unintended element, so slap a "glitch" tag on it. This is why BxR is essentially the same thing, and why Bungie should take an even stance on it. If it is somehow different from all of the other glitches in the game and we mortals simply can't fathom the cosmic reasons Bungie has decided upon, then they should TELL us not to do it, and by "us," I mean all players. We won't question it because it's pointless to. Once Bungie has spoken, that's it ... but SPEAK already!

  • 07.18.2007 1:21 PM PDT

My last thread: Why Reach Sucks

<3 Foman

How is standing on a ramp glitching? A spawn trap is playing the spawn system, and anticipating the respawns. It's definately not a glitch, just having a good feel for the system and a knowledge of "if i stand here, they spawn there, there, and there". Definately not cheating, and definately not intended.

that's my point, just because it was unintended doesnt make it a glitch, or cheating.

[Edited on 07.18.2007 1:25 PM PDT]

  • 07.18.2007 1:24 PM PDT
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Posted by: Zach The One
How is standing on a ramp glitching? A spawn trap is playing the spawn system, and anticipating the respawns. It's definately not a glitch, just having a good feel for the system and a knowledge of "if i stand here, they spawn there, there, and there". Definately not cheating, and definately not intended.

that's my point, just because it was unintended doesnt make it a glitch, or cheating.


So what categories do unintended elements of gameplay fall under? There are glitches, then there are ... what? If they can't all be lumped together, then what is the distinction?

Edit: Standing on a ramp isn't glitching, but purposefully standing on a ramp with the knowledge that the game's mechanics will spawn the enemy in a position unfavorable to him and favorable to you is.

[Edited on 07.18.2007 1:32 PM PDT]

  • 07.18.2007 1:26 PM PDT

Posted by: Recon Number 54 | Master Forum Ninja |
You're asking people to state which non-released game they like better?

It's like asking a virgin whether they like being on top or on bottom.

Posted by: sk8r13 09
I feel, in my opinion, that button glitching is fine to do in matchmakeing. Like some people feel, I believe it is like playing a fighting game, and the button glitches are just hard to do combos. If you say it takes no skill to do a Excessive Shot, Double Shot, and Quad Shot than you are sadly mistaken(I do think BXR and BXB are pretty easy to do.) I don't have to do any of the button glitches to win a match, and I still do very well without them. And for the people who think it is cheating(Like Bungie). All I have to say is," Why is superbouncing not cheating, but button glitches are?" "They both are things that exploit flaws in the game, everyone can do them, and you don't need to buy excess hardware to make them work(Via Modding)." So why should they be cheating, when other glitches in matchmakeing aren't?

Button glitches do not make you good. Anyone who button glitches can probably own while regular shooting. They just need to take it to the next level. It's way harder to do the gltich than most people think. And the people who complain about it are the ones who can't do it. It takes just as much skill to do the button glitch and fire at the person than it does to just shoot. It takes more concentration to do the glitch and better aim.



"I don't really Quad Shot that much compared to a regular Double Shot. Instead of a Double Shot-YY-Double Shot,RRX-YY-RRX(Quad Shot). I perfer the "Shot Shot Double Shot."( R-R-RRX) I find the the "Shot Shot Double Shot" has a higher success rate than a Quad, because you are less likely to miss some of your headshots. And if you are good, but not amazing at a Quad Shot(Like myself), then you will have the occasional screw up on the first Double Shot. And most players would be killed in this instance because they were previously taking fire. Now, because you might have screwed up your first Double Shot in the Quad Shot, you now have to run behind a corner. This is where you make a decision; Should you stay there, reaload, and wait for the other player to pop around the corner so you can BXR/BXB him? Or you could try to make a tactical manuever by sneaking around him for the assasination. Or the last thing you could do is suprise by doing an Excessive Shot,BRX-RRX-BRX-RRX(Triple Shot). That would catch him completely off gaurd."






That is a quote by me. Now that might all be running through the normal button glitchers head at the moment you are attacking. Now if you think it takes no skill to do a button glitch, then I would like to you Excessive Shot, or Quad while fighting your opponent. It's a little harder to do, I think, than you people who just pull the R trigger. We, button glitchers, have to push multiple buttons and pull the R trigger in under a second to make one shot work(Double Shot, BXR, and BXB) You non button glitchers are just having to push R trigger every half second. We have to do most of our Quad's and Excessives in under that to make them work correctly. That, my friends, takes way more skill than pulling a trigger, and it takes more concentration and more skill to pull off those button glitches.

One thing that is stupid that I hate about regular open area BR'ing is, it's a whoever shoots first wins. Maybe if there is cover around you can hide and the pull off a four shot on the guys head from a suprise jumping strife. But if you were to say button glitch after he fired off two shots, he might be damaged and forced to retreat, giving you some time to heal, or he could be dead. It's no longer a shoot first win first situation. It's a "Who has more skill?"

And also for the people who button glitch. They are always trying to fight other button glitchers. This makes it really hard, because if both of you are glitching than it's an even battle. But one Double Shot can turn the whole thing around. Now a button glitcher has to look out for people more. If he see's someone he has to make a decision. "Should I fire at him, or wait for him to come here. Because he could turn around and Quad me when I'm only going to fire a Double Shot. Maybe if I hide I can pull of a BXR. But he might see me and do it before me. Maybe I should wait for a teamate, but he might know that, and tell one of his teamates to flank us and shoot us from behind while he Double Shots us. If he shot a regular shot I could live, but that's a maybe" That is running through the mind of a button glitcher. You non-button glitchers should think like that, but you don't because you expect him to play as you do. But he might not. So you get mad in the game and yell and scream "Cheater!" While you, yourself, have probably superbounced in that match and was just killed while you were up there. You darn glitcher.


[Edited on 07.18.2007 1:33 PM PDT]

  • 07.18.2007 1:32 PM PDT

My last thread: Why Reach Sucks

<3 Foman

Exactly, it's just a general legal statement they made to cover their @ss. They created a spawn system, we figured it out and use it. All top (around 100 or 100) teams use strats that keep in mind where people generally spawn in each part of the strat. It's just being prepared and knowing the game. But i doubt bungie intended it to be played that way. That's just the game they gave us, and we figured out how to win in a fair way. Your team lets my team setup, and you can't break our strategy, then where's the cheating? Now you're just saying anyone who doesn't run around like a decapitated chicken is cheating. Which is the basic premiss for 90% of the anti-button glitching arguments.

  • 07.18.2007 1:33 PM PDT
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I won't quote that monster, but this is in response to sk8r13 09's post above.

I agree with your overall premise, that button glitches are not cheating, but the method that you arrive to that conclusion I disagree with. The degree of skill required to pull off a glitch doesn't matter in determining whether or not a certain glitch should be deemed cheating, because it isn't an objective outlook. This method, by nature, excludes some glitches and includes others in whether or not they are cheating, based off of skill, which is essentially an opinion. You can count the number of people that can successfully complete the glitch, but it is not an accurate measure of skill.

  • 07.18.2007 1:37 PM PDT
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Posted by: Zach The One
Exactly, it's just a general legal statement they made to cover their @ss. They created a spawn system, we figured it out and use it. All top (around 100 or 100) teams use strats that keep in mind where people generally spawn in each part of the strat. It's just being prepared and knowing the game. But i doubt bungie intended it to be played that way. That's just the game they gave us, and we figured out how to win in a fair way. Your team lets my team setup, and you can't break our strategy, then where's the cheating? Now you're just saying anyone who doesn't run around like a decapitated chicken is cheating. Which is the basic premiss for 90% of the anti-button glitching arguments.


This doesn't answer my question of categorizing unintended elements. Also, you are also beginning to confuse me on which stance you have taken, so please clarify this for my benefit.

  • 07.18.2007 1:38 PM PDT

Circumstances do not make the man, they merely reveal himself to himself.

For me: Button Glitches in Ranked Matches= CHEATING, Button Glitches in Custom Games= FUN its a simple philosiphy no more button glitches in ranked matches to prevent ur rank from being unfairly deflated, but u still get to have fun in custom games with friends =)

[Edited on 07.18.2007 1:39 PM PDT]

  • 07.18.2007 1:39 PM PDT

My last thread: Why Reach Sucks

<3 Foman

Posted by: sk8r13 09
Posted by: sk8r13 09
I feel, in my opinion, that button glitching is fine to do in matchmakeing. Like some people feel, I believe it is like playing a fighting game, and the button glitches are just hard to do combos. If you say it takes no skill to do a Excessive Shot, Double Shot, and Quad Shot than you are sadly mistaken(I do think BXR and BXB are pretty easy to do.) I don't have to do any of the button glitches to win a match, and I still do very well without them. And for the people who think it is cheating(Like Bungie). All I have to say is," Why is superbouncing not cheating, but button glitches are?" "They both are things that exploit flaws in the game, everyone can do them, and you don't need to buy excess hardware to make them work(Via Modding)." So why should they be cheating, when other glitches in matchmakeing aren't?

Button glitches do not make you good. Anyone who button glitches can probably own while regular shooting. They just need to take it to the next level. It's way harder to do the gltich than most people think. And the people who complain about it are the ones who can't do it. It takes just as much skill to do the button glitch and fire at the person than it does to just shoot. It takes more concentration to do the glitch and better aim.



"I don't really Quad Shot that much compared to a regular Double Shot. Instead of a Double Shot-YY-Double Shot,RRX-YY-RRX(Quad Shot). I perfer the "Shot Shot Double Shot."( R-R-RRX) I find the the "Shot Shot Double Shot" has a higher success rate than a Quad, because you are less likely to miss some of your headshots. And if you are good, but not amazing at a Quad Shot(Like myself), then you will have the occasional screw up on the first Double Shot. And most players would be killed in this instance because they were previously taking fire. Now, because you might have screwed up your first Double Shot in the Quad Shot, you now have to run behind a corner. This is where you make a decision; Should you stay there, reaload, and wait for the other player to pop around the corner so you can BXR/BXB him? Or you could try to make a tactical manuever by sneaking around him for the assasination. Or the last thing you could do is suprise by doing an Excessive Shot,BRX-RRX-BRX-RRX(Triple Shot). That would catch him completely off gaurd."






That is a quote by me. Now that might all be running through the normal button glitchers head at the moment you are attacking. Now if you think it takes no skill to do a button glitch, then I would like to you Excessive Shot, or Quad while fighting your opponent. It's a little harder to do, I think, than you people who just pull the R trigger. We, button glitchers, have to push multiple buttons and pull the R trigger in under a second to make one shot work(Double Shot, BXR, and BXB) You non button glitchers are just having to push R trigger every half second. We have to do most of our Quad's and Excessives in under that to make them work correctly. That, my friends, takes way more skill than pulling a trigger, and it takes more concentration and more skill to pull off those button glitches.

One thing that is stupid that I hate about regular open area BR'ing is, it's a whoever shoots first wins. Maybe if there is cover around you can hide and the pull off a four shot on the guys head from a suprise jumping strife. But if you were to say button glitch after he fired off two shots, he might be damaged and forced to retreat, giving you some time to heal, or he could be dead. It's no longer a shoot first win first situation. It's a "Who has more skill?"

And also for the people who button glitch. They are always trying to fight other button glitchers. This makes it really hard, because if both of you are glitching than it's an even battle. But one Double Shot can turn the whole thing around. Now a button glitcher has to look out for people more. If he see's someone he has to make a decision. "Should I fire at him, or wait for him to come here. Because he could turn around and Quad me when I'm only going to fire a Double Shot. Maybe if I hide I can pull of a BXR. But he might see me and do it before me. Maybe I should wait for a teamate, but he might know that, and tell one of his teamates to flank us and shoot us from behind while he Double Shots us. If he shot a regular shot I could live, but that's a maybe" That is running through the mind of a button glitcher. You non-button glitchers should think like that, but you don't because you expect him to play as you do. But he might not. So you get mad in the game and yell and scream "Cheater!" While you, yourself, have probably superbounced in that match and was just killed while you were up there. You darn glitcher.


As illustrated here, it makes you think more. A button combo is a high risk/quick kill tool you have at your disposal. You can usually play without them, but in some situations they become your last chance.

I'm going to cut my rant short and see what the other side has to say. I'm just going to argue everything said instead of repeating my own.

  • 07.18.2007 1:39 PM PDT
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I have said this before when someone "glitches"me I leave cheating feedback.I have always did this,especially with halo3 coming out.Dont complain about it in the forums,leave feedback.Thats all you can do.The pros do it, but it does not make it right for xbox live when you are playing against average gamers.

  • 07.18.2007 1:41 PM PDT

$x='print chr(36),"x=",chr(39),$x,chr(39),";\n",$x; ';
print chr(36),"x=",chr(39),$x,chr(39),";\n",$x;

I work at Microsoft. I have nothing to do with Halo and nothing I say is "the official word".

Posted by: ExaltedRage05
If Bungie wants players to not BxR, they should fix the game so that you cannot BxR. It's that simple

This line of thinking never ceases to annoy me. Unless you inexplicably have become an expert in C++ programming, you don't have the right to tell Bungie that their job is simple. Certain elements of the game can't be fixed that easily, or just remedied with a downloadable patch.

And as for taking a stance, there are countless posts by moderators, Achronos, and other bungie employees explicitly stating that glitch abuse in matchmaking is cheating.

  • 07.18.2007 1:42 PM PDT

Greatest of all time

5 pages? wow.....this should have been locked a while ago since it is a cheating discussion. BxR and any other button glitch is cheating in MM and is not allowed to be discussed.

I think the mods are being lazy.....

  • 07.18.2007 1:45 PM PDT

My last thread: Why Reach Sucks

<3 Foman

Posted by: ExaltedRage05
Posted by: Zach The One
Exactly, it's just a general legal statement they made to cover their @ss. They created a spawn system, we figured it out and use it. All top (around 100 or 100) teams use strats that keep in mind where people generally spawn in each part of the strat. It's just being prepared and knowing the game. But i doubt bungie intended it to be played that way. That's just the game they gave us, and we figured out how to win in a fair way. Your team lets my team setup, and you can't break our strategy, then where's the cheating? Now you're just saying anyone who doesn't run around like a decapitated chicken is cheating. Which is the basic premiss for 90% of the anti-button glitching arguments.


This doesn't answer my question of categorizing unintended elements. Also, you are also beginning to confuse me on which stance you have taken, so please clarify this for my benefit.


I am pro button glitches.

A spawn trap is not a glitch or a form of cheating. It's a higher level strategy that requires teamwork. Bungie created a spawn system, and we are just playing the spawn system. As far as something being considered cheating. I look at it like this, if it the tactic makes gives you a complete 100% upper hand on the other player then it's cheating. Such as standby, modding, super bouncing with the sniper so no one can kill you.

hold up, gotta play a pro ffa

  • 07.18.2007 1:46 PM PDT

Circumstances do not make the man, they merely reveal himself to himself.

i am proud of my thread! ^_^ (mayb the moderators are actually looking into this discussion to see our ideas, u never no)

  • 07.18.2007 1:47 PM PDT
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Posted by: BahamutZER0
Posted by: ExaltedRage05
If Bungie wants players to not BxR, they should fix the game so that you cannot BxR. It's that simple

This line of thinking never ceases to annoy me. Unless you inexplicably have become an expert in C++ programming, you don't have the right to tell Bungie that their job is simple. Certain elements of the game can't be fixed that easily, or just remedied with a downloadable patch.

And as for taking a stance, there are countless posts by moderators, Achronos, and other bungie employees explicitly stating that glitch abuse in matchmaking is cheating.


I didn't say that their job was simple. I said that the relation was simple. You're asserting that I said "If Bungie wants players to not BxR, they should simply fix the game so that you cannot BxR."

I know that they have posted in the forums, and I do not believe that their current method of announcement is adequate.

  • 07.18.2007 1:47 PM PDT
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"I look at it like this, if it the tactic makes gives you a complete 100% upper hand on the other player then it's cheating."
You are cheating because the average gamer can not bxr or double shot-you will have the upper hand if you are doing this and the other player is not.

[Edited on 07.18.2007 1:55 PM PDT]

  • 07.18.2007 1:54 PM PDT