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Subject: Constant "use search" responses are bad for b.net

Mother pus bucket!

With all due respect and humility, I've got to get some stuff off my chest...

I see a lot of posters telling others to "use the search button" - often with various unflattering adjectives attached. While I'm not suggesting that search is useless, it's not always a realistic suggestion - particularly if the person is new to the community. Searching the forums almost invariably turns up a wall of hits with most them having little to do with the intended topic. Yes, proper search language helps... sometimes.

On the same note, responses like "use search" and flaming for posting "old" news are bad for the community - especially when it comes to things like the ARG. If people are afraid to post because they might get flamed, there's a good chance we'll all miss out on important information and interesting ideas. That's bad for everyone.

Some suggestions that I try to live by (at least recently anyway):

- Exercise a little more patience when responding to "dumb" questions. Isn't there a saying about there being no dumb questions?

- Give posters the benefit of the doubt if they've asked a "dumb" question or stated information that's old. Yes, they could be trolling... or they could be someone who's got limited access to information and is genuinely interested in learning more about the Haloverse.

- Just because it's old news to us doesn't make it any less exciting for someone who's just discovered it. Put yourself in their shoes.

- Vengeance is the Ninjas'. I've done it... taken it upon myself to mete out schoolyard justice. I've stopped.

I know the ninjas are working to clean up the forums which will help make Search a much more user-friendly feature. It's also obvious that they're working hard to put the fear of ninjas into the hearts of evildoers. Kudos and good luck.

Thanks for listening, doc.

  • 07.19.2007 1:28 PM PDT
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Posted by: evilcam
Gz, I'd kill the whole world for you




3-19-07

People who you are trying to correct wont read this old wall of text. You should have used the search button.

Edit: In all seriousness, people who are the problem won't read this.

[Edited on 07.19.2007 1:37 PM PDT]

  • 07.19.2007 1:37 PM PDT
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On some other sites where the forums don't have as many forum topics poping up every day it works cause the major topics are either
A. Stickied
B. People post often in them, so they stay near the top
C. Less topics = better search matches

In B.net it doesen't work out as well, mainly by the flood of multiple topics about the same or similar topic.
So pretty much the search feature gets cloged up like a kitchen sink when someone forgets to turn on the garbage desposal :P

[Edited on 07.19.2007 1:42 PM PDT]

  • 07.19.2007 1:42 PM PDT
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Destinypedia - The Wiki for Bungie's Destiny
Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Sadly, I think that all of the previous posts in this thread are right, although I do have some other comments.

In the CompoundIntelligence group, where old news is posted constantly, we have really cracked down pretty hard on people who rudely post in response to old news. That's simply not helpful in any way. As far as posting "use the search feature" goes, unfortunately the line is helpful but the search feature often does return too many hits -- especially on generalized topics such as "co-op" or "graphics." Indeed, sometimes it returns Halo 2 information. It takes a bit of practice with that feature to learn to use it appropriately, and it would be nice if the search feature was refined to include a "posted between/before/after date" category and the ability to search only within certain forums.

That said, pointing users to the search feature is never a bad thing if done politely. I don't think that, if done appropriately, it is "bad for b.net." Often times, a user WILL start using the search feature. And the more practice they get with it, the better their searches will become. Even if only in some small way this helps reduce repeat threads, that's a good thing.

[Edited on 07.19.2007 1:45 PM PDT]

  • 07.19.2007 1:44 PM PDT
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It's not helping, but neither are repeat "What is bungies next project" threads, And if my nagging gets one member to use it, then by god was it worth it.


[Edited on 07.19.2007 6:21 PM PDT]

  • 07.19.2007 6:21 PM PDT

鬼

I think that the threads that are full of "use the search feature" responses tend to be repeats of other threads.

Granted, that doesn't mean that you should hit the caps key and lay on the exclamation points, but people should put at least some time into searches like "Halo 3"+"ARG"+"SOTA" or something. That's not the best example, but I do think that the search feature works if you know how to use it.

  • 07.19.2007 6:37 PM PDT
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I never tell people to use the search feature. If I can help them, then I help them.

  • 07.19.2007 8:25 PM PDT
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I generally ignore repeat topics. They usually get locked anyway, so what's the point?
Also: Attention B.net Web Team:
Update the search feature please.
That is all.

  • 07.19.2007 9:45 PM PDT

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The problem is that not enough people do use the search feature when it's relevant, all being greedy or egotistical and wanting "their thread" to be "the one true thread" regarding their issue. Then when something new comes out about their issue, the search feature is watered down in its effectiveness because of earlier selfishness and/or ignorance.

Use it, use it often. Read the Stickies on top of the forum, and post in existing threads. You are just as important as the next guy, and just as insignificant too. That's not meant as an insult, what I mean to infer is that there is no room here for superiority complexes. There is no need to make a new thread about an idea, share it with the others in an existing thread.

  • 07.19.2007 10:16 PM PDT
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The End

‘The conscious is cancerous if allowed to linger’

"Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there."

Posted by: GameJunkieJim
The problem is that not enough people do use the search feature when it's relevant, all being greedy or egotistical and wanting "their thread" to be "the one true thread" regarding their issue. Then when something new comes out about their issue, the search feature is watered down in its effectiveness because of earlier selfishness and/or ignorance.

Use it, use it often. Read the Stickies on top of the forum, and post in existing threads. You are just as important as the next guy, and just as insignificant too. That's not meant as an insult, what I mean to infer is that there is no room here for superiority complexes. There is no need to make a new thread about an idea, share it with the others in an existing thread.
Junkie is right. Here is an example - If you have just checked Halo3.com and server 2 was up for the ARG but wasn't yesterday that does not mean you found it first. You should run a search quickly to ensure you are not spamming the forums by reporting something obvious whic somebody else has already found.

~TOM T 117

  • 07.19.2007 10:37 PM PDT

Mother pus bucket!

Posted by: GameJunkieJim
The problem is that not enough people do use the search feature when it's relevant, all being greedy or egotistical and wanting "their thread" to be "the one true thread" regarding their issue. Then when something new comes out about their issue, the search feature is watered down in its effectiveness because of earlier selfishness and/or ignorance.
Truth. Is it always greed or ego, though? Probably most of the time... but I'm sure it's not all deliberate spamming. I know ignorance of the law is no excuse but...

Posted by: GameJunkieJim
You are just as important as the next guy, and just as insignificant too. That's not meant as an insult, what I mean to infer is that there is no room here for superiority complexes.
No insult. I understand exactly what you mean and I agree.

Posted by: x Foman123 x
I don't think that, if done appropriately, it is "bad for b.net."
Well said. I guess the "appropriately" part is somewhere near the heart of the issue. Too often it seems people are told to search as a form of flaming rather than to help them.

Posted by: TOM T 117
Here is an example - If you have just checked Halo3.com and server 2 was up for the ARG but wasn't yesterday that does not mean you found it first. You should run a search quickly to ensure you are not spamming the forums by reporting something obvious whic somebody else has already found.
I typed "server AND arg AND NOT pc" into the search box and got 10 pages of hits. I realize refining the seach parameters might improve the results (as noted by Bungie is Boss) but let's be honest - right or wrong, the average person isn't likely to do that.

I don't want to continue this discussion just for the sake of doing it so I'll stop. I know things are being done to help address the issue - the beef is more with individuals than anything else. When the forums are thinned out a little I have no doubt the search function will be more user-friendly. Thanks for the replies.

  • 07.20.2007 6:41 AM PDT
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People cried and cried for a search feature. When we got it, nobody seemed to have the brains to use it.

  • 07.20.2007 9:00 AM PDT
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I have to disagree slightly. If there is one thing I hate, it is a waste of a thread (I have created maybe fifeteen threads in 2 years). I also use the search feature constantly. Just these two previous week I answered five questions for myself by using the search feature. People should always use that first, even if they think no one will have thought of their idea, they might be suprised.

While it's never appropriate to berate others, telling them the to use the search feature is. I'm not saying you shouldn't also answer their question if you can, but at least the first reply should direct them the the search bar.

  • 07.20.2007 9:25 AM PDT
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There are many issues with this topic which I do agree with.

The first thing is the search feature. When it came out people ignored it. It has been just sitting there waiting for us to use and we abandond it. The problem is we haven't enforced people to use the search button from when it came out. People are just starting to use it. The point of these "please use the search button" posts is maybe people will actually use it. That is the plan anyway. It isn't too late to start now. If we don't start now there will be chaos by September 25th. I like having fun in the forums myself. However, the same repetetive nonsense like rick rolling and posting the leaked scans has pissed me off as well as many other members in the community.

Another thing is the multiple topics. While it is great that everyone wants to try and discuss the topics having multiple topics of the same idea, discussion, find, etc. just blocks up the rest of the main page. Be honest. Nobody goes back in the forums like 5 pages just to see what topics there are. People usually just look at the front page of the forum to see what is there. However, when that page is blocked up by multiple threads, other threads get moved onto further pages. That discourages people like myself because there might be a totally new discussion we have not talked about and now I didn't get to see it because we see the same old topics over and over again. It is not that I do not like those topics. But they become repetative and block up the page. Which is where I go to GameJunkieJim's point.

A lot of people think that they are hot stuff by being the leader of a topic. Usually these are less experienced users. But this could be anybody. I am not trying to be mean to anyone that does this or respond in a negative manner. He are some things to think about before creating a random topic:
1. Being the origional poster does not make a topic important (unless you work at bungie lol) it is the discussion inside. The contents of the posts are what keep the post interesting and active. Posts that say "the topic says it all" or something like that deserves a polite and intelligent response. However, making a topic like that usually does not give your thread the spice it needs to keep going. Edit posts. If someone replys with an interesting response or adds a picture ask if you can quote them or add the picture to the Origional post.

Here are some things when posting:

Be respectful. Notice how I said respectful and not kind. Just realize that there are other people out there with different opinions. You can joke around and have fun. But please refrain from being rude and insulting. While everyone can get nasty (including myself) just be mindful of others on the forums.

Use the search button before creating a new topic.
If it is a question you may find the answer you are looking for. If not try messaging somebody. They may have the answer. I love getting messages from other users. It makes my inbox feel less empty than it is. If you still cannot find your answer then try posting your question on the forums. By then it would make an interesting discussion.
However, if you were going to make a statement or arguement, use the search feature to find if there is already a discussion going on about the post. This makes the threads we already have juicier because everyone is then gathered in one place to give off better discussions.

Another thing is spelling and grammer. Do not talk alien because we all know you don't speak the language. Internet talk such as lol we can all relate to. However "Idk my bff jill" "TNSNF" is rediculous. Please refrain from that.

Thus, if people learned to be more organized when making topics and using the search feature I am sure we will have a much more pleasent time here at bungie.

[Edited on 07.20.2007 9:42 AM PDT]

  • 07.20.2007 9:40 AM PDT

I work here: Sound Devices, LLC. We make bad-ass field audio gear, and you think that's awesome. My messy desk (With work-related items on the computer screen).

One does not simply grenade jump into Mordor...

I'll also add that the search feature is "hard to use" because it isn't possible to search a single forum, that I'm aware of. When I see a repeat topic, I just ignore it (Unless it's in CompoundIntelligence; Then I politely point people in the right direction and lock the thread, like foman said).

  • 07.20.2007 11:56 AM PDT
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Posted by: AnalogWeapon
I'll also add that the search feature is "hard to use" because it isn't possible to search a single forum, that I'm aware of. When I see a repeat topic, I just ignore it (Unless it's in CompoundIntelligence; Then I politely point people in the right direction and lock the thread, like foman said).

That is a good point. I think that we should be able to search specific forums. It would help narrow down to the correct information.

  • 07.20.2007 1:06 PM PDT

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Best.Post.Ever.
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Posted by: x Foman123 x
Sadly, I think that all of the previous posts in this thread are right, although I do have some other comments.

In the CompoundIntelligence group, where old news is posted constantly, we have really cracked down pretty hard on people who rudely post in response to old news. That's simply not helpful in any way. As far as posting "use the search feature" goes, unfortunately the line is helpful but the search feature often does return too many hits -- especially on generalized topics such as "co-op" or "graphics." Indeed, sometimes it returns Halo 2 information. It takes a bit of practice with that feature to learn to use it appropriately, and it would be nice if the search feature was refined to include a "posted between/before/after date" category and the ability to search only within certain forums.

That said, pointing users to the search feature is never a bad thing if done politely. I don't think that, if done appropriately, it is "bad for b.net." Often times, a user WILL start using the search feature. And the more practice they get with it, the better their searches will become. Even if only in some small way this helps reduce repeat threads, that's a good thing.

Being one of the first to join the group, I would know this. CompondIntelligence has over three thousand members, most of which came from the uncontrollable Halo 3 Forum, so this problem pops up a lot. Again, people do post things like "Use the search feature next time" or "Read the stickies" but most of the time using the feature is an exercise in futility.

Generally, if you search for co-op, you'll come up with random nonsense from other forums, and things from previous Halo games and other games. Searching for Halo 3 online co-op narrows it down a bit, but most of the results consist of random flaming and other useless junk.

It is very hard to adapt to the search feature, and at times it isn't helpful at all.

  • 07.20.2007 3:57 PM PDT
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Posted by: odmichael
There are many issues with this topic which I do agree with.

The first thing is the search feature. When it came out people ignored it. It has been just sitting there waiting for us to use and we abandond it. The problem is we haven't enforced people to use the search button from when it came out. People are just starting to use it. The point of these "please use the search button" posts is maybe people will actually use it. That is the plan anyway. It isn't too late to start now. If we don't start now there will be chaos by September 25th. I like having fun in the forums myself. However, the same repetetive nonsense like rick rolling and posting the leaked scans has pissed me off as well as many other members in the community.

Another thing is the multiple topics. While it is great that everyone wants to try and discuss the topics having multiple topics of the same idea, discussion, find, etc. just blocks up the rest of the main page. Be honest. Nobody goes back in the forums like 5 pages just to see what topics there are. People usually just look at the front page of the forum to see what is there. However, when that page is blocked up by multiple threads, other threads get moved onto further pages. That discourages people like myself because there might be a totally new discussion we have not talked about and now I didn't get to see it because we see the same old topics over and over again. It is not that I do not like those topics. But they become repetative and block up the page. Which is where I go to GameJunkieJim's point.

A lot of people think that they are hot stuff by being the leader of a topic. Usually these are less experienced users. But this could be anybody. I am not trying to be mean to anyone that does this or respond in a negative manner. He are some things to think about before creating a random topic:
1. Being the origional poster does not make a topic important (unless you work at bungie lol) it is the discussion inside. The contents of the posts are what keep the post interesting and active. Posts that say "the topic says it all" or something like that deserves a polite and intelligent response. However, making a topic like that usually does not give your thread the spice it needs to keep going. Edit posts. If someone replys with an interesting response or adds a picture ask if you can quote them or add the picture to the Origional post.

Here are some things when posting:

Be respectful. Notice how I said respectful and not kind. Just realize that there are other people out there with different opinions. You can joke around and have fun. But please refrain from being rude and insulting. While everyone can get nasty (including myself) just be mindful of others on the forums.

Use the search button before creating a new topic.
If it is a question you may find the answer you are looking for. If not try messaging somebody. They may have the answer. I love getting messages from other users. It makes my inbox feel less empty than it is. If you still cannot find your answer then try posting your question on the forums. By then it would make an interesting discussion.
However, if you were going to make a statement or arguement, use the search feature to find if there is already a discussion going on about the post. This makes the threads we already have juicier because everyone is then gathered in one place to give off better discussions.

Another thing is spelling and grammer. Do not talk alien because we all know you don't speak the language. Internet talk such as lol we can all relate to. However "Idk my bff jill" "TNSNF" is rediculous. Please refrain from that.

Thus, if people learned to be more organized when making topics and using the search feature I am sure we will have a much more pleasent time here at bungie.

Adding to what I said earlier people are becomming immature and posting many innapropriate things. THis is a quote from a person who posted some self explanitory pics in the Halo 3 forum. NOTE: Neither of these people did anything wrong and did not post the link. They just show an example of what sick people are doing on these forums. But I am sad to say I clicked on the picks :(

Posted by: kojirodensetsu
Posted by: TapUout6156
lol i didnt click it but what dare i ask is tub girl?

I don't want to get into details, but let's just say it has to do with a naked woman in a bath tub and feces and I'll leave it at that.


[Edited on 07.20.2007 8:01 PM PDT]

  • 07.20.2007 6:51 PM PDT

Mother pus bucket!

Posted by: odmichael
Be honest. Nobody goes back in the forums like 5 pages just to see what topics there are. People usually just look at the front page of the forum to see what is there. However, when that page is blocked up by multiple threads, other threads get moved onto further pages.
Ain't that the truth. I'm amazed at the turnover on page 1 and often go 3-4 pages in (10-12 occasionally) to see what I could be missing. The "save thread" feature is a blessing in that respect.

Posted by: Rainman89
While it's never appropriate to berate others, telling them the to use the search feature is. I'm not saying you shouldn't also answer their question if you can, but at least the first reply should direct them the the search bar.
That's another piece of the puzzle... like when someone types out a 3-line flame when they could have answered the question in 5 words. For the record, I don't think the search feature is bad or that people shouldn't use it - I do think that the "use search" comments are being abused by people without any helpful intent. That doesn't apply to anyone in here.

Posted by: odmichael
Posted by: AnalogWeapon
I'll also add that the search feature is "hard to use" because it isn't possible to search a single forum, that I'm aware of. When I see a repeat topic, I just ignore it (Unless it's in CompoundIntelligence; Then I politely point people in the right direction and lock the thread, like foman said).

That is a good point. I think that we should be able to search specific forums. It would help narrow down to the correct information.
I cannot overstate what an enormous help that would be. Take the word "server" for example (a hot keyword for the ARG): a search turns up page after page of Halo PC content. It would save having to sift through the redundant, superfluous and extraneous info ;)

Posted by: odmichael
Posted by: kojirodensetsu
Posted by: TapUout6156
lol i didnt click it but what dare i ask is tub girl?

I don't want to get into details, but let's just say it has to do with a naked woman in a bath tub and feces and I'll leave it at that.
Wow... genuinely revolting. It's disturbing that (a) so many people in these forums are fairly young and seem to know/be interested in stuff like that, and (b) some of the people discussing stuff like that are older and know there are younger people in here.

Side note: I like it in here... it feels like we're all sitting in a wood-panelled room looking through our monocles and smoking our pipes.

[Edited on 07.20.2007 8:22 PM PDT]

  • 07.20.2007 8:04 PM PDT
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Posted by: apollo1975
Side note: I like it in here... it feels like we're all sitting in a wood-panelled room looking through our monacles and smoking our pipes.
I believe that it is spelled 'monocle', dear boy. *puffs pipe*
But I must say I agree. *adjusts monocle*

The search feature really does need some improving. I do hope that those busy chaps on the Web Team find the time to upgrade it.
I believe that the following features would be most welcome, most welcome indeed:

All searches:
Posted in Forums *forum1* *forum2* *forum3*
Posted between *date1* and *date2*

Show threads only:
Between *value* and *value* replies.
Between *value* and *value* unique users.
Between *value* and *value* average lines per post.

Show posts only:
Between *value* and *value* lines.
Position in thread *top 25%, middle 50%, or bottom 25%*.
On page between *value* and *value*.
Position on page *top 25%, middle 50%, or bottom 25%*.

[Edited on 07.20.2007 8:27 PM PDT]

  • 07.20.2007 8:14 PM PDT

Mother pus bucket!

Posted by: dalmedya
Posted by: apollo1975
Side note: I like it in here... it feels like we're all sitting in a wood-panelled room looking through our monacles and smoking our pipes.
I believe that it is spelled 'monocle', dear boy. *puffs pipe*
But I must say I agree. *adjusts monocle*
Right you are, chap. Jolly good show. *passes the port*

That seriously honks me off (the mistake... not having it pointed out). I loathe bad spelling/grammar and hate being reminded I'm not perfect.

  • 07.20.2007 8:21 PM PDT
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The Marty Army

Ah, look at the lonely people...

Searching is a double-edged sword. If you search, and reply to an old thread about the thing you were going to create a new thread on, you'll get yelled at for bumping old threads. So, what to do?

  • 07.20.2007 8:24 PM PDT
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Posted by: WhiteRaven119
Searching is a double-edged sword. If you search, and reply to an old thread about the thing you were going to create a new thread on, you'll get yelled at for bumping old threads. So, what to do?
Look at the datestamp of the bottom post, old chap. If it is older than a week, let it sleep.

  • 07.20.2007 8:29 PM PDT

Bungie should outsource their search to google. Bungie's is adequate and all, but with google powering it even the most novice of members could locate Ling Ling's head.

[Edited on 07.20.2007 9:28 PM PDT]

  • 07.20.2007 9:24 PM PDT
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Posted by: Spec_Ops_Assault
Bungie should outsource their search to google. Bungie's is adequate and all, but with google powering it even the most novice of members could locate Ling Ling's head.
Hmm, that seems to be a good idea...

-Edit-
I have made an important discovery: inputting inurl:http://www.bungie.net/Forums/topics.aspx?forumID=3 followed by the search term into Goolge's search bar will restrict the search to the Septagon.
For instance, putting inurl:http://www.bungie.net/Forums/topics.aspx?forumID=3 text returns this. While it successfully restricts the search, it also limits a) the number of results and b) the detail given in those results.
It can, however, be modified for all forums. Just go to the forum's main page, copy the forumID number, and replace the one I used.

[Edited on 07.20.2007 10:20 PM PDT]

  • 07.20.2007 10:06 PM PDT

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