Bungie.net Community
This topic has moved here: Subject: The community is killing itself.
  • Subject: The community is killing itself.
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • of 4
Subject: The community is killing itself.
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: x Foman123 x
...it is important to define the word "elitism" ...


First meaning: Fairly new/middling members lording it over even newer members because they've been around slightly longer/know slightly more, and generally being very trollish and arrogant. Only applies to new/middling members because they don't last long.

Second meaning: Old members being slightly snobbish, but being quite very specifically within the rules. Not so obvious as this one usually entails older members going off and -blam!-ing about newer members, or even -blam!-ing about "the state of the community and how it ain't what it used to be" in their private circles.

It's surprising how many people fit into the second category, really. But don't ever get any illusions about this being a new thing, it has always been this way, and to be honest, its gotten better over the years. With the removal of post counts and join dates (from immediate view, at least), the first category practically disappeared, then, about a year ago, we got a spate of "OMFG the community sucks, i'm leaving" posts, so that lot disappeared from the community view (or, were, erm.. promoted).

That said, its best to ignore all this - as, to quote "We'll all float on ok."

  • 07.26.2007 3:43 PM PDT

Tru7h and Reconciliation

Posted by: Rokit
I feel as though our community is killing itself. The members we all know and love, are in fact, power hungry and corrupt.

You no hungry for power, you hungry for... HOT POCKETS!!!!

[Edited on 07.26.2007 3:52 PM PDT]

  • 07.26.2007 3:51 PM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

Why? What purpose would it serve other than to restrict conversation here in punishment for the activities of the Halo 3 forum.

You cannot dictate such control. If you did, you cause a collapse of the community - the very thing you're supposedly trying to protect.

Posted by: Rokit
I have, indeed, seen the Halo 3 Forum. And I do understand that the Septagon does, and should, have far more trust then the Halo 3 Forum due to the differences. Yet, I still don't believe the rules should be so stretched. I do admit, the Septagon is very laid back, and it is a great place to hang out. It just seems like things could be stricter here and there. Not everywhere of course, but just a small bit.

  • 07.26.2007 3:52 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

It's synonymous to two classrooms of children. One classroom is made up of the hard workers, and generally nicer students. The other class is full of thugs and jockeys with barely a brain between them. The first classroom works fairly quietly and always gets their work done on time. The other class is a torrential explosion of noise and spit balls.

Obviously, bad behaviour is going to be punished more severely in the second classroom. If someone in the first classroom gets a bit loud, or off-topic, the teacher will simply tell him to get back to work. He's a competent student, with a good work ethic. The teacher knows that. He'll get back to work.

If someone in the second classroom gets a bit loud, they're given detention. They're thrown out of the room for ten minutes. They get a phone call home.

So, in other words, get back to -blam!- work, or I'll ring ya mum.
-TGP-

  • 07.26.2007 3:54 PM PDT

You have been plundered by Cap'n IceWolfen. Arggggggggg!

When you are in a public place, forums, chat rooms, ect. Your always going to have different opinions and personalities. Within thos locations you will always find somebody who has to ruin the fun for everybody else. Just dont complain about it and ignore it. Heres the two possibilities in such a circumstance.

1. Everybody ignores the guy and he will eventually shut up becuase he knows he's not getting attention.

2. Everybody replys to what tha person has said, in which case, that persons opinion DOES matter since it caught the attention of so many people.

  • 07.26.2007 4:05 PM PDT

No signature found. Click here to change this.

I've given up all hope of this community becoming any better in any way. I've tried, and failed on numerous occasions, so I've come to this conclusion: The community refuses to believe it has problems. If a potential problem is brought to their attention, they will retaliate fiercely and rudely. Dismal? Maybe. But nonetheless true.

  • 07.26.2007 4:09 PM PDT

"FOR YOUR OWN PROTECTION: Ensure brain is engaged before putting keyboard into gear."
Need a ninja?
Got a cheater? [email]h2cheats@microsoft.com[/email]
Forum Rules.
FAQ.
I'm certifiable.

Posted by: Rokit
I have, indeed, seen the Halo 3 Forum. And I do understand that the Septagon does, and should, have far more trust then the Halo 3 Forum due to the differences. Yet, I still don't believe the rules should be so stretched. I do admit, the Septagon is very laid back, and it is a great place to hang out. It just seems like things could be stricter here and there. Not everywhere of course, but just a small bit.

I have a policy of cutting members as much slack as possible in every forum.

There are many reasons for this policy. First, too rigid an adherence to a strict interpretation of rules in the forums leads to more discussions about the rules than about the topic for the forums. (To whit, threads like this one.) Second, everyone makes mistakes from time to time. Third, I frankly hate banning people; having to do it as much as I do is uncomfortable.

However, I do not have a policy of cutting the same amount of slack in every forum. I can't, not without violating the "as much as possible" policy in some forums or allowing (as I must admit having done) havoc in others.

The purpose of forum rules isn't to hammer every member down into the same level; it's to allow members to share ideas in a manner that allows as much meaning as possible get through to each other. Hence the topics for each thread, making particular information easier to find. Hence the vastly stricter policies now in place in the Halo 3 forum, which had turned to illegible soup without them, while allowing the forums with high signal-to-noise ratio (Septagon, Underground, PC) more latitude because they don't need the same strict attention to be clearly read.

The rules don't exist in isolation. They have a purpose, and enforcement of the rules should be directed at furthering that purpose over anything else.

-- Steve doesn't want to be cast in the role of the Leveller. He'd rather watch communities build themselves up rather than plow them all down into an artificial sameness and call it "equality".

  • 07.26.2007 4:12 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Great_Pretender
So, in other words, get back to -blam!- work, or I'll ring ya mum.
-TGP-


I'll be honest - I didn't see that coming. TGP cements his place as author of the your mum burn of the week!

  • 07.26.2007 4:14 PM PDT

Posted by: Mattbluhalofan
I've given up all hope of this community becoming any better in any way. I've tried, and failed on numerous occasions, so I've come to this conclusion: The community refuses to believe it has problems. If a potential problem is brought to their attention, they will retaliate fiercely and rudely. Dismal? Maybe. But nonetheless true.


What is "better?" Better is a vague subjective word.

See, I wish the rules were less strict. I think sometimes Bungie and it's members take themselves way too seriously. After all, this is a video game forum. We're suppose to be having fun! For a few moments a day/week/month, whatever, we interact with other people who have the same interests as us to get away from the stress of our real lives.

Having a no tolerance policy is not only unrealistic, but unfair. Some members have earned the right to get a little silly and have some fun, even at the expense of posting off topic once in a while. In fact, I'd dare to say the threads where the ninjas have some off topic fun with us members are the the most enjoyable threads.

If all the forums were strictly enforced with some sort of lockdown-no exception-zero tolerance marshall law, then most of us would just go away. Because in the end, what fun is that?



  • 07.26.2007 4:36 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

I'm still laughing about Recon's response to how to get on the webcam, "walk in front of your mom while she's upstairs doing 'business'"! (or something close)

Friggin' genius, but not exactly "on-topic".

~B.B.

  • 07.26.2007 4:50 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Read about the Forgotten Spartan I Program
Butane: To protect the world from devastation!
sir_brilliant: To unite all people within our nation!
Rainman89: To denounce the evils of truth and love!
sir_brilliant: To extend out reach to the stars above!
SpaceGhostFlyer: Jessie!
Butane: James!
sir_brilliant: Team Rocket blasting off at the speed of light
Butane: Surrender now or prepare to fight
sir_brilliant: Meowth, that's right!

Let's just remember...

All B.net users are equal, but some B.net users are more equal than others.

[Edited on 07.26.2007 5:07 PM PDT]

  • 07.26.2007 5:05 PM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

Visit us and check out our games at Sandswept.net!

~~Pardon Our Dust.~~

Ignorance is Strength, Rainman.

  • 07.26.2007 6:07 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Look at it this way.

Bungie is a company. They WANT to sell as many copies of Halo 3. So obviously, they want new comers to the Halo forum, to be attracted to the game. They DON'T want to see people screaming at each other, involved in illegal activities, etc.

The main point of this site, is probably to do three things:

A) Be a Community site for dedicated Halo fans
B) Generate more hype for Halo 3/other Bungie games and sell copies
C) Provide key Halo online features, information on games, and soon screenshots taken from the video editor.

So the thing is most newcomers check out the Halo forum. Seeing nonsensical garbage is like going to the local department store and seeing kids having food fights. You probably won't be shopping at that department store any longer.

The thing is the mod leniency is a PRIVILEGE.

Use it. Because quite obviously, its there for a reason. The community thing is the "Bungie Humor Page", because this is the place filled with Bungie Humor (like the 7 step plan for taking over the world). It also has "community improvement" threads, and other things. The same rule kind of applies to the flood: It is the off topic forum, so people do get rather off topic.

But IMO (at least to me), you have to remember the Halo 3 forum is like the "showcase". Its where potential customers go. And showing them a food fight, err... a vicious flamer war/spam/trolling, is a BAD IDEA. Now this strictness is like a kick in the ass to people who just want to relax, and hang out a bit, hence the B quality in other forums.

  • 07.26.2007 6:15 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Read about the Forgotten Spartan I Program
Butane: To protect the world from devastation!
sir_brilliant: To unite all people within our nation!
Rainman89: To denounce the evils of truth and love!
sir_brilliant: To extend out reach to the stars above!
SpaceGhostFlyer: Jessie!
Butane: James!
sir_brilliant: Team Rocket blasting off at the speed of light
Butane: Surrender now or prepare to fight
sir_brilliant: Meowth, that's right!

Posted by: SS_Zag1
Ignorance is Strength, Rainman.


Work will set you free...

  • 07.26.2007 7:02 PM PDT

don't take me too seriously..


<3

You think you can see users getting special treatment but you can't really tell if users get warned or not. They probably get warned by private messages from the mods or DS. You don't see direct warnings in the mods' posts..

  • 07.26.2007 8:15 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: Anton P Nym
Posted by: Rokit
I have, indeed, seen the Halo 3 Forum. And I do understand that the Septagon does, and should, have far more trust then the Halo 3 Forum due to the differences. Yet, I still don't believe the rules should be so stretched. I do admit, the Septagon is very laid back, and it is a great place to hang out. It just seems like things could be stricter here and there. Not everywhere of course, but just a small bit.

I have a policy of cutting members as much slack as possible in every forum.

There are many reasons for this policy. First, too rigid an adherence to a strict interpretation of rules in the forums leads to more discussions about the rules than about the topic for the forums. (To whit, threads like this one.) Second, everyone makes mistakes from time to time. Third, I frankly hate banning people; having to do it as much as I do is uncomfortable.

However, I do not have a policy of cutting the same amount of slack in every forum. I can't, not without violating the "as much as possible" policy in some forums or allowing (as I must admit having done) havoc in others.

The purpose of forum rules isn't to hammer every member down into the same level; it's to allow members to share ideas in a manner that allows as much meaning as possible get through to each other. Hence the topics for each thread, making particular information easier to find. Hence the vastly stricter policies now in place in the Halo 3 forum, which had turned to illegible soup without them, while allowing the forums with high signal-to-noise ratio (Septagon, Underground, PC) more latitude because they don't need the same strict attention to be clearly read.

The rules don't exist in isolation. They have a purpose, and enforcement of the rules should be directed at furthering that purpose over anything else.

-- Steve doesn't want to be cast in the role of the Leveller. He'd rather watch communities build themselves up rather than plow them all down into an artificial sameness and call it "equality".


I wish I had run into you when I broke a couple minor rules when I first came here... was banned for bumping after waiting a decent 24 hours and also for saying the word -blam!-.

People think a forum is a mini blog where you can post whatever you want with no cosnequence really. Sure, there are the basic rules any site has. But what you type is to your leisure really. This coupled with lazyness and, to be honest, a poor search system (better than nothing) equates to spammed topics, even further diluting the usefullness of the search engine.

Contrary to what most people believe, it isn't a mass number of stupid 10 year olds who do this, but anyone from a range of 10-30. They are either to lazy to type coherently, or just don't give a damn becuase they have an alternate identity to hide behind. There is no sense of respect among people in real life, what makes you think they will be any better when they have fake name and face?

It is way, way too late to fix this forum. One of the main reasons is the sheer number of members as well as the blatant use of blacklisting. Bans aren't a serious punishement anymore becuase they are used for everything. I feel that it would be far more effective if you kept post counts in, and then had a set number of posts you would remove. Or even a point system where a member has a set number of points that are removed according to the infraction. Once those points are up you get an automatic 7 day blacklist. If you do it a second time, it jumps to a 14 day blacklist. And a thrid gets you a perma ban.

Sure, sounds stupid for people who really aren't bad members. But for every day/week/bi-weekly/etc. that you aren't breaking the rules, you will gain points back. Simple system in my opinion. Low point counts would also mark troublesome users.

[Edited on 07.26.2007 8:41 PM PDT]

  • 07.26.2007 8:29 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

tl;dr

Everybody sucks. Shut up about it.

  • 07.26.2007 8:33 PM PDT

SB-117

I always seen the Septagon as the Flood v2 with "inside jokes". I'm not entirely fond of how every single thread has the words "noodle", "mother" and "Soon™" embedded in them... It's a minor reason why I've "gone off" posting here, but I guess to each their own.

Bungie promotes a very informal and relaxed atmosphere when it comes to the way they operate. You can be serious, but you can also have fun, that's the way they do things. Not everything is so black and white when it comes to moderating. Different measures must be taken in different situations to have the most positive impact.

Do I make an example of people who are dragging the forum's average I.Q. down... or do I give them a warning, and risk people thinking that off-topic posts are appropriate? It depends a lot of the time. Is it fair that people get off lucky/unlucky based on the amount of chaos around them? Probably not, but that's something that's inevitable.

You're derailing a thread in the Septagon? Ok, it's not helping but it's under control, I can't see anyone posting -blam!- in here. Trying to derail a thread in the Halo 3 forum? I can smell the coming kitten pictures, Rick Roll and quote pyramids from a mile off.

Now that's not to say users won't be punished in the Septagon for insulting your mother 24/7... But I think others have summed up how I feel...

[Edited on 07.26.2007 8:41 PM PDT]

  • 07.26.2007 8:34 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

I understand your point ash, but I feel a middle ground is there. Rather than banning or just pming silently, just post in the thread with a warning. It makes an example and a reminder of what the rules are, without being too harsh. That is my method for moderation. If the topic gets too off topic, I will PM the ones responsible with another warning, and then close the topic. If there are repeated situations by the same user(s), then i move to bans, or even just simple limitations of powers (read only, no post count increase, removal of avatar/signature powers, etc).

  • 07.26.2007 8:40 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: VII Toast
*highly combustible*
Oh boy. This is gonna go down well when it gets to the Flood...

[Edited on 07.26.2007 8:51 PM PDT]

  • 07.26.2007 8:50 PM PDT

You say tomato; I say potato.

I will admit I do favor certain members here.
When I see the gold seventh column symbol next to threads, I look.
When i see gold or orange text, I read.
When I recognize one of my irc buddies, I read.
Is it bad? no.

  • 07.26.2007 8:52 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Read about the Forgotten Spartan I Program
Butane: To protect the world from devastation!
sir_brilliant: To unite all people within our nation!
Rainman89: To denounce the evils of truth and love!
sir_brilliant: To extend out reach to the stars above!
SpaceGhostFlyer: Jessie!
Butane: James!
sir_brilliant: Team Rocket blasting off at the speed of light
Butane: Surrender now or prepare to fight
sir_brilliant: Meowth, that's right!

VII toast, please have my man babies.

see, that didn't kill the thread, but it's not really a bannable offense either. At least I hope not

  • 07.26.2007 8:53 PM PDT

  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • of 4