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Subject: For those who whine about MLG...
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Posted by: BerserkerBarage

To answer this question is because the glitches, either physics or animation lie in systems that are too foundational to adequately change without fear of messing with other aspects of the game. Obviously with something like superjumps, the problem lies deep within the use of the Havok physics engine, not something easily messed with. And since all weapons have different reload animations, to effectively change animation glitches would require the redoing of those animations and how they relate to say melee animations as well. That would be one hell of a patch. And to think that something like that could be accomplished in a orderly time-table while controlling all other factors without creating problems worse than the current glitches would be problematic.

For example, the reason why BXR and BXB are so popular is because of the patch that increased the damage of melee attacks from how Halo 2 shipped. Bungie wanted to address the problem of "weak melees" but by releasing that patch essentially created the venue for people to exploit button glitches.

Quite the "Butterfly Effect" of chaos theory in motion...

~B.B.


Ah, thank you very much for that response, I've been wondering about that lately.

  • 07.26.2007 5:02 PM PDT

The bible is the best book Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM A PROUD CHRISTIAN. HALO IS AWESOME BUT GOD IS MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!
Did you knew that JESUSdied for you?

I think some pros and semi pros are a fraud like overswarm flame all you want
toight they are some pros I admire like KARMA pros are just cheaters I remeber a pro said lglithes are what meke the firenece between pros and amateur



WELL we maybe wont stop "pros" ( i meant mlg fanboys) cheating but her this LETS SEE IF YOUR GLICTHES SAVE YOU ( you means all weapon glitchers) IN HALO3 cheaters

  • 07.26.2007 5:02 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: nickyfour92
Dear B.B,

As another hater of MLG i would like to congratulate you on your awesome argument. Couldn't have put it better myself. You just put the whole MLG community in its place, good job. To bad the OP can't make an argument against, it would have been funny to read.


A fellow hater, Nickyfour92

PS. a link to this ownage will be put into my sig so all the MLG lovers can read and cry.


Now...don't misinterpret my intentions. I don't exactly hate MLG, but I do hate certain things that make up their community. I've met a couple people, who happen to be mods at the MLG forum, that I respect, even if we disagree. Now, I've explain in part why I dislike their community. Now, don't confuse that with me saying that I entirely dislike all aspects of their community or the people that make it up. That's not true.

Just thought I'd clarify...

~B.B.

  • 07.26.2007 5:03 PM PDT

Greatest of all time

My bad for misinterpretting but I really don't like MLG, and i really like your argument, well done.

  • 07.26.2007 5:07 PM PDT

My logic is undeniable.
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Posted by: Th3 Flipst3r
sure getting paid for playing a video game sounds like a good deal, but i would MUCH rather make something of myself and get a REAL job and actually contribute to society. Call me crazy for having a life, but it is a lot more healthy and enjoyable if you know you actually have done something and you can NEVER experience that feeling playing a little video game... or atleast i cant.
You make me feel all warm and fuzzy, I ca take the moral high ground because I serve my country. Games are fun, they are not a job, they are an illusion that you actually matter, but the people that admire you are the most likely to forget about you within ten minutes because they have far moe important things to do. I love games, they definatly help me forget about my job. I also hate people who play for something more than the outcome of that particular game. Why should you care if someone else can beat you in a fair game? If it's unfair it's easy; just quit, how does the game matter beyond it's own boundaries?

  • 07.26.2007 5:10 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: I SacramenT I
Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Ask the majority of MLG players why "no duals" they would have replied in the fashion that I did: because they feel they are "less skillful".

7ru7h. In reality, unfortunately, a random MLG player online will be a total dick 75% of the time. Sucks for people like me that love MLG games but also like MM. Oh well.


Ah, quite the catch-22 I addressed previously in a long forgotten thread. Unfortunately for MLG, they find themselves in the unique situation where their organization is growing, but it is growing with the majority of it being the "less friendly" people. However, these immature players/fans are exactly the demographic that most sponsors of MLG are targeting. So, MLG is faced with a growing community of ass-clowns, but the reliance upon those ass-clowns for the continued future of MLG seems linked.

I've said countless times that I'm sure there are some great, decent mannered MLG people out there. However, for those of us that don't delve too deeply into that community, the ones we see aren't exactly the ideal "poster-children" they would want. You can't exactly blame the rest of the general public for relying upon the examples that regularly show themselves who link themselves with MLG.

I doesn't exactly help your case when someone who claims to be quite involved with MLG says, "I don't give a damn what Bungie says is cheating...". That attitude is not helping your community look.

~B.B.

  • 07.26.2007 5:11 PM PDT
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Posted by: BerserkerBarage
I doesn't exactly help your case when someone who claims to be quite involved with MLG says, "I don't give a damn what Bungie says is cheating...". That attitude is not helping your community look.

Believe me, I dislike those people as much as you.

  • 07.26.2007 5:14 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: nickyfour92
My bad for misinterpretting but I really don't like MLG, and i really like your argument, well done.



No problem, just thought that I would clarify. I knew what you meant, but the way you said it could have lead to further misunderstanding. I don't hate all of MLG, that would make me rather simple-minded, but there are definite parts of that community that I'm definitely not too fond of.

Oh, and to whoever I answered about why glitches weren't fixed, you're welcome.

Cheers,

~B.B.

  • 07.26.2007 5:14 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: I SacramenT I
Posted by: BerserkerBarage
I doesn't exactly help your case when someone who claims to be quite involved with MLG says, "I don't give a damn what Bungie says is cheating...". That attitude is not helping your community look.

Believe me, I dislike those people as much as you.


And that seems to be the impression from a couple guys I've met on the MLG forums, which I hardly visit. One is TheInsanityTest and the other is ChaosTheory S3. Like I said, it seems to me that MLG is quite in a catch-22.

~B.B.

  • 07.26.2007 5:15 PM PDT

I'm far too bad to be playing video games professionally. (1500 games, 1.3 kill per death) but I do know when I see a good player.
I'm not an intense Halo 2 player, but once in a while I would watch a MLG video and the thing that stands out alot more then the button glitches done is the amount of talking and team work going on.
And that "If they are so good why don't they just stop using this button combos" arguement is so weak; it would help you have an even more secure spot as the leader, and don't getme wrong but I think they in the tournaments to win, your welcome to vaporize me if they actually didn't come to win, but just waste there time and money just to lose.
It's kind of like comparing two people's pay checks.
One guy already makes more then the other, but just because he makes more, means he shouldn't try to make anymore money? That is something only an idiot would do, and you know it.

MLG plays by their own rules, and if I'm not mistaken this IS NOT matchmaking so they should be able to do whatever they want.



But I do agree that playing video games as a job as fun and easy and as much money you would make, would get boring fast, though you are still making alot more money then anyone with a normal job, and many jobs are repitive and tedious, and I bet many of these jobs would get boring even faster, and it would be safe to say they still don't even get as much money.
But think about it, what are most of the actors and professional athletes really doing to help society?
Besides the rare charity lovers and people who want t contribute to their hometown, it would be safe to say nothing, really.

One last thing, most people who enter MLG tournaments probably already have a job, but anyone could always use the extra cash..; right?

  • 07.26.2007 5:30 PM PDT

RIP Halo 2.

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
I've been to an MLG event, actually one of the first events in Washington D.C. a couple years ago. Guess what, the vast majority of the people there were immature ass-clowns. The people actually participating in the events (with the except of one) were egotistical immature ass-clowns. Why would I believe that it has changed any in a couple years when more ass-clowns have entered the MLG community. Nice try though

What's your point? You would've had to deal with the same types of people had you gone to some SMG-spawn spray and pray party. I'm guessing you didn't do so well and are just being a bitter loser.

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Modding is also part of the game. It is exploiting things that are already in the game in a fashion they are not suppose to be. Button glitches exploit them by pressing a series of button, modding changes the base files for characters or weaponry. They both ideally deal with things that are natively in the game. Both are cheating! I'd rather lose a fair game then win by cheating. Grow a brain, if you had any self-respect, you would realize that modding and exploiting glitches are not that far apart. Nice try though.

Modding requires the alteration of game files to changethe game into something it isn't. You're manipulating something that players do not normally have access to or the ability to do in the stock game. I remember playing a lot of Halo 1 and I never heard any complaints on LAN about backpack reloading or other glitches. People though it was cool and wanted to learn how to do it. The only people who complain about button glitches are whiny MM kids looking for an excuse as to why they lost. Button glitches have never cost anyone a game - if you got beat by button glitchers, they'd have beat you without them anyways.

Modding and button glitching are two entirely separate and not even remotely comparable things. I nearly spit my soda out in laughter when for tried to say they were.

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
MLG takes out weapons that they see as being less skillful. However, if you were truly a skilled player, I would imagine that you would be able to compete against a wide variety of weaponry without requiring them to be removed. Don't want to get 'sprayed and prayed'? Don't go near someone with a dual. Not that hard of a concept. Don't want to get sword-whored? Don't go near him. It's not exactly difficult. However, MLG feels that the reduction of variety increases the "depth" of the game. Yeah, that makes sense... MLG believes that the drastic destruction of weapons balance adds balance to the game. Yeah, that makes sense....Nice try though

MLG substitutes the available weapons in an effort to add balance to the game. Dual-wielding was ill-conceived and essentially created a series of "half-weapons." By replacing these with more useful weapons that make for better combat, it creates a more balanced and skill-based gameplay environment. Avoiding sword-whoring isn't as simple as you'd make it sound, either. When you spawn with an SMG, there's very little you can do against a sword. Anyone who knows what they're doing can easily rack up a very large amount of kills with very little effort.

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Don't die and allow the other team to control all the power weapons. I thought you kids were suppose to be skilled. If you lack the amount of skill required of keeping the other team from controlling all the "power weapons" I'm pretty sure you should lose. As with spawning with a SMG. You do realize that if you kill the other team...that...they...will...spawn...with...a...SMG!! Holy hell, sounds fair to me. If you kill them, they spawn with an SMG, if they kill you, you should spawn with a SMG. Not a difficult concept. Nice try though

Setting up with power weapons can be as simple as getting the right spawn points on some maps. With radar and SMG spawns, a properly set up team with weapons is pretty much impossible to break. The SMG is unsuitable as a spawn weapon due to it's inability to fight at range or inflict a reasonable amount of damage.

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Oh, and the VAST and I mean VAST majority of MLG kids are ass-clowns. No other community in the over-all Halo community is nearly as hated as MLG. Not even KSI. No other community in the overall Halo community has lead to an increase in cheating in MM as much as MLG has. No other community promotes the use of glitches/cheats in MM as MLG does. Should I continue? Nice try though[/i]

I run into far more idiots in Matchmaking than I do in MLG customs. I've met a lot of good people who are easy to get along with through MLG customs. The large majority of jerks are in Matchmaking. In fact, I probably see more jerks in Team Slayer and Double Team than I do in Team Hardcore. Also, MLG does not officially promote the use of button glitching in Matchmaking. If MLG players do, that's their business. But saying that because the players do, the official organization does is ridiculous. There's groups of people in the United States who promote racism and white supremacy. By your logic, American government is pro white-supremacy.

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
K/D ratio

... means absolutely nothing.

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Just don't try to pass off your retarded version of the gameplay as the "superior, more skillful" approach. Now, i don't think MLG is unfair, I think it is a ridiculous dumb way to approach a game and it's gameplay. And I know for a fact that MLG players are jerks. No other community in the over-all Halo community contains nearly as many ass-clowns as the MLG community does. It's ironic because some of the moderators at MLG's own forum dislike the VAST majority of the kids that come there. As soon as HBO or RCG start promoting cheating or say that *THEY* know what is better for Halo than Bungie does, I'll believe that MLG kids aren't ass-clown. Nice try though [/i]

It actually is though. It adds depth to the game and allows yet another level for skill-based competition. The MLG community knows what they're doing and evaluates these things when they make their decision to allow or block something. Button glitches are not an unfair advantage and are therefore allowed. I wholly believe that there are groups of people in the Halo community, such as MLG, who know the game better than Bungie does. Just because Bungie develops the game doesn't mean that they understand the depth of the game and how serious some communities take it. We've played the game far more than any Bungie employee has and as such have a deeper understanding of the game. Look at Tomkbstone and Desolation. While technically not made by Bungie, the developers clearly don't have any sort of understanding of how much host advantage matters. As such, the result is that we wind up with two completely host-dominated maps.

As I said earlier, the place where I see the most jerks is in Matchmaking. I'm not sure what it is you have against MLG players; it's probably just that they are in general more skilled than the "omg smgz r so leet" players and you're sick of being beat by them.

  • 07.26.2007 5:35 PM PDT

Lol for some jerk coming in here and bragging your stats aren't even all that impressive, I've seen much better players who aren't MLG and the ones that are aren't jerks about it. Since you likely play Halo way too much you should be better than most players as most people play other games or don't play all that much. My stats are decent but I consider myself a casual player and I let my little brother share my LIVE account so he puts my stats down a bit. As for you pointing out specific games to every one to make yourself look better thats pretty sad since even I can do the same:

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo2.aspx?gameid=737708 135&player=Percyswan

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo2.aspx?gameid=737689 895&player=Percyswan

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo2.aspx?gameid=737388 653&player=Percyswan

Also for your argument that you could show us objective based games where you raked up lots of kills I imagine you are one of these players who is just a terrible teammate you doesn't care about having his team capture the enemies flag or plant the bomb you instead stay hidden and shoot people with a Battle Rifle. If you really are in MLG and can scrape by from prize money than that's great but you shouldn't be such a jerk about it especially since it's you're job.

  • 07.26.2007 7:31 PM PDT

DO NOT send me invites for clans or groups. You will be blocked.
Success is measured in blood; yours or your enemy's.
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Posted by: dalmedya
Bungie doesn't see gamers any more. They see walking credit cards.

Ooohhh, you play MLG, that makes you great doesn't it? Sorry, for the normal people we play this game for fun. People that play the game for money or for winning, ruin the game for the rest of us. If you want to think that you're better than everyone else that doesn't play MLG, do so. Keep it in you're mind. You don't need to bring your diseased ass here too.

  • 07.26.2007 7:34 PM PDT
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I like to Rollick

Posted by: MLG PulseR
Posted by: ChrI0n12
MLG is taking video games to seriously by making a Major League Gaming business.
That is quite possibly the stupidest post I have ever seen. MLG is the fastest-growing and most popular competitive league in the world (http://www.mlgpro.com/?q=node/147927). Take a loot at that link.

Done reading?

Appearently you are wrong.


That guy has a son whose friend is a "star" on a team that goes to events. Can you say Biased?

He also didn't give any statistics pertaining to Major League Gaming, just general ones on gaming; oh unless you consider "BOOOMING" to be a statistic. (Which I don't personally)

Your link just proves you wrong, It's basically a guy excited about the league using a hyperbole to emphasis his feelings.

[Edited on 07.26.2007 7:41 PM PDT]

  • 07.26.2007 7:41 PM PDT
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Posted by: I SacramenT I
7ru7h. In reality, unfortunately, a random MLG player online will be a total dick 75% of the time. Sucks for people like me that love MLG games but also like MM. Oh well.



Hmmm I heard reports otherwise. I think it's at 82%.

  • 07.26.2007 7:42 PM PDT
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Extremists of both sides suck.

MLG Extremist:
Whine about SMG Spawn no matter what
Tends to be the players that trash talk, especially after a BXR or double shot
Tends to be the players with elitist names
Watches way too many halo 2 video/games online
Custom FFAs on Midship are played WAY too much

Anti-MLG Extremist (AKA a bunch of people on these forums):
Blame their lack of skill on people using button glitches
Do not understand how competitive and the amount of skill involved in MLG games
General lack of understanding of the game (I mean there's still topics arguing about the noob combo =/)

  • 07.26.2007 7:45 PM PDT

Posted by: Done DL
Extremists of both sides suck.

MLG Extremist:
Whine about SMG Spawn no matter what
Tends to be the players that trash talk, especially after a BXR or double shot
Tends to be the players with elitist names
Watches way too many halo 2 video/games online
Custom FFAs on Midship are played WAY too much

Anti-MLG Extremist (AKA a bunch of people on these forums):
Blame their lack of skill on people using button glitches
Do not understand how competitive and the amount of skill involved in MLG games
General lack of understanding of the game (I mean there's still topics arguing about the noob combo =/)

Yes, extremists suck.
But most people on these forums aren't Anti-MLG Extremists, they are somewhere in between and most people hate MLG extremists (i think).

Take me, for example:
I think BR starts are fair, but some SMG starts are good.
I sometimes use button glitches.
I hate MLG FFA.
I hate people with MLG in their name.
I sometimes watch halo 2 online stuff.
I sure as hell understand how the game works.


[Edited on 07.26.2007 8:05 PM PDT]

  • 07.26.2007 8:02 PM PDT
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Posted by: Th3 Flipst3r
sure getting paid for playing a video game sounds like a good deal, but i would MUCH rather make something of myself and get a REAL job and actually contribute to society.
Contribute to society? Lol, no one has a job to contribute to society. People get jobs to work and make money to put food on the table and put a roof over their heads, and buy clothes to wear. Lol, contribute to society? You can't be serious.

  • 07.26.2007 8:04 PM PDT

Posted by: A BiG FaT EIiT3
Posted by: Th3 Flipst3r
sure getting paid for playing a video game sounds like a good deal, but i would MUCH rather make something of myself and get a REAL job and actually contribute to society.
Contribute to society? Lol, no one has a job to contribute to society. People get jobs to work and make money to put food on the table and put a roof over their heads, and buy clothes to wear. Lol, contribute to society? You can't be serious.
All jobs contribute to society in some way. What would you do if all the people who worked at grocery stores quit? You wouldn't be able to buy fooood!

  • 07.26.2007 8:07 PM PDT
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Posted by: xX Sandstorm Xx
Posted by: A BiG FaT EIiT3
Posted by: Th3 Flipst3r
sure getting paid for playing a video game sounds like a good deal, but i would MUCH rather make something of myself and get a REAL job and actually contribute to society.
Contribute to society? Lol, no one has a job to contribute to society. People get jobs to work and make money to put food on the table and put a roof over their heads, and buy clothes to wear. Lol, contribute to society? You can't be serious.
All jobs contribute to society in some way. What would you do if all the people who worked at grocery stores quit? You wouldn't be able to buy fooood!
You didn't understand what I was trying to say. Would you really become a firefighter and risk your life on the job and get nothing out of it except "contributing to society"? Probably not. That's human nature. People would want something in return.

  • 07.26.2007 8:11 PM PDT
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MLG how about you leave talking about mlg to people who acualy attend mlg tournaments instead of putting mlg in their name. Your lvl 15 slayer match (lol) which you got 25 kills is pathetic.

If i looked for like 2 seconds on my games i could find one where i got 40 kills ina game to 50 lol, stop being such a poser extremist

[Edited on 07.26.2007 8:34 PM PDT]

  • 07.26.2007 8:31 PM PDT
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I didn't read all the posts, I was too tired of "OMFG MLG n00b! You are teh suxorz."

Look, if you don't want to use glitches, that's fine, you can be at the bottom if you want. The thing is, MLG teams don't use glitches as part of an "exploit," they use them to give them an edge in battle. (An edge that EVERYONE has, unlike modders. That's a ridiculous stretch, by the way.) Any MLG team could beat you on any MLG Gametype without using glitches easily. Most of H2 team play is about teamshooting, strafing, and overall teamwork. For a clutch cap on MLG CTF Midship, Walshy stopped, turned around, and started firing on the guy that was shooting down OGRE2. Walshy died, and OGRE2 got the cap. Is that glitching? If you say so, you're seriously stupid.

I played a semi-pro team before, and we got absolutely demolished. Not by glitching, but by teamshot and teamwork. They knew where every single one of my teammates were, and didn't let us get any sort of set-up. It was amazing to witness, I have to say.

To anyone who thinks "No Duals" is not balanced, I have to say, you're wrong. Not only are you wrong in assuming that No Duals is used for every map (Sanctuary's the only exception.), but the fact that you're not left with crap weapons lying around you is a good thing, as well. Having Map Default would leave you with mostly needlers on Midship (Needler v. Sword. GG) as most of the key spots on Middy would be riddled with needlers. (P2 and car3.)

No motion sensor wildly promotes teamwork and communication. Yet another aspect the supposed "good non-MLGers" in here think isn't required for a good team. Those call-outs you ask for? They're 2nd-nature for even a decent AM team at MLG.

As has been discussed a billion times before, BR starts actually give you something to work with. Instead of "OMG a RL.!", you can actually have a decent shot at taking him out if you're far enough away. If he isn't, well, great spawn. :P

It's kind of funny that you guys constantly complain about glitching being "unfair" and "not the way the creators designed the game." To the former, you can do it at any point in time in the game with, supposedly (You don't know how mostly..), the greatest of ease. To the latter, it's competitive, it adds depth, and no one really cares except the Bungie fanboys. It gives a risk vs. reward factor. "Should I go and BXR that guy, risking getting BXRed myself, or should I actually stay back and rifle him, hoping my teammates (At higher levels this thought will change to "knowing.") will help me?" Glitching is actually rarely used compared to other tactics, and when it is, it's super-clutch or completely fails. RRX is usually used in FFAs, mostly, though the OGRE twins are beastly at it. (I bet half this forum that you can't.)

To whoever called MLGers "asses," you were obviously hanging out with the wrong crowd. Most of the pros I've talked to over the forums readily reply to you. Walshy, OGRES 1 and 2, Strongside, Foulacy, Karma, and even T2 are all pros that are readily approachable. The trash talking you hear is usually just banter to annoy the other team. It's not even taken seriously.

You can have your "Code of Honor" and "Moral Playing." I'll be laughing all the way to the bank when I meet you in a local, MLG-style tournament. (Though for Shadowrun because I've given up on H2.)

  • 07.26.2007 8:43 PM PDT
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i let my skills speak for me

I agree with you Pulser, even though i've played in a few MLG online tournaments i still can't use the button combos so i make up for it with other tatics that i use and for those you think it's easy money to win then why don't you just create you're own team; work on Strategies that will help you defeat you're enemies and manage to win every match you get into with you're team that dosen't let you down.

  • 07.26.2007 9:26 PM PDT

If everyone were afraid of change we'd still be playing Pong

so this guy justifies using button glitches by saying everyone else uses them? lame.

  • 07.26.2007 9:30 PM PDT

What you anti-button glitchers fail to realize is that the button glitches, in MLG EVENTS (not Matchmaking) are used only 15% of the time. They are mostly situational and don't come up very often. Most people who brag about being MLG and button glitchers are the n00bs that have never been to an event or know anything about MLG other than they pay to play Halo 2 and that MLG stands for Major League Gaming. You can't base your opinions on them.

  • 07.26.2007 9:35 PM PDT

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