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Subject: Save Halo 2 Bungie, Please.
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Posted by: Rellik09
Others on the forums don't bicker about analogies...

I'm sorry but they just don't...


I wouldn't say that I've really bickered about the analogies. I think I just set them straight with my awesome one. =]

  • 07.30.2007 10:03 PM PDT
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Whatever helps you sleep at night.

XD

  • 07.30.2007 10:05 PM PDT
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Posted by: xXfactor
Halo 2 far from my first online game. I've gone through so many of the most popular shooters (Rainbow Six, Counter Strike, Call of Duty, Unreal, etc...), and I’ve been cheated in every single one of them.


if this is true, then what blocks cheaters from halo 3 or any other game?..

  • 07.30.2007 10:54 PM PDT

Cheaters suck, they claim things aren't a cheat just so they can feel superior in video game. How sad!

I don't mind losing to a better player, but a cheater, well you just know they don't deserve the glory.

I am tired of all these MLG-Wannabes claiming MLG rules in Matchmaking. MM isn't MLG, get with the program.

I can't wait to play all of you Halo 2 cheaters again in halo 3, for the short time it will last without cheating, combos etc.

Just look at some cheating statements from Achronos, not the out-dated corporate tag line in the cheating FAQs.

Achronos States Button Combos as Cheating



[Edited on 07.31.2007 1:03 AM PDT]

  • 07.31.2007 12:58 AM PDT
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Posted by: xXfactor
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo2.aspx?gameid=740631 349&player=Matt%20Hero%20ii

That game began last night (technically this morning) around 12:50 AM. The game ended at around 3:00AM. Why? Cheaters.

When Bungie released this game back in 2004, I believed they created the single best online gaming experience that world had ever seen. I still believe that statement is true to this day. Did I expect cheaters to eventually come along and put a damper on the fun? Yes, yes I did. Did I expect the cheating to reach the levels it has? No.

I'm not naive. Halo 2 far from my first online game. I've gone through so many of the most popular shooters (Rainbow Six, Counter Strike, Call of Duty, Unreal, etc...), and I’ve been cheated in every single one of them. People make their aim bots and what not. Companies release patches and fix these cheats, or cheaters just got permanently banned. With Halo 2 however, it’s been quite different. It all started off what’s been called "Stand-By". That later evolved into "Secondary Stand-By", and later on "Bridging". All of which can be summed into a single category, network manipulation. These people tamper with either their internet connection or the connection of other players in the game in order to give themselves the advantage; a CLEAR example of a violation of the Xbox live terms of service. Next to this type of cheater, there is the "Modder". These players use modified files to again gain an advantage over other players, which is again a CLEAR example of a violation of the terms of service. How are these people treated? Temporary bans. 3 Days, a week maybe. When the "ban" expires, they cheat more. Eventually Bungie hits them with an actual ban. At that point they grab "a 2 month", and cheat some more.

We also have cheaters who don't even get chastised. Do you "Super Jump", or "BXR"? Guess what, you are a cheater. Yes, Bungie did say "Super Jumps" are not cheating, I'm aware of that, and I agree with them, to an extent. If you want to "bounce" 100 feet into the air and come back down somewhere within the bounds of the map, be my guest. If you however, use these "bounces" to land anywhere which is out of the bounds of the map, AKA an area you cannot get to without glitching, then at that point you are cheating. I don't know how many people I've explained that to; the mass majority of them simply don't understand and the rest attempt to insult me because they know I'm right and have nothing better to say. As for BXR, BXB, LLR, GGP, 7HW, they are glitches, and there for cheating. Some people will say "We all have access to these glitches, therefore it’s not cheating". Well kids, life is all about choices. I’ve made the choice not to exploit glitches. If you made the choice to glitch, you are a cheater.

The game that I linked to above had a mix of both types of cheating. Myself (Matt Hero II) and my buddies Josh and Dr. Dennis Labamba Ewid plus a random versus a party of four. In the first round, we scored the flag. We did not say anything rude towards the opposing team, nor teabag them or anything like that. In the second round, they rushed the flag, pings drop, our whole team dies. It’s not bad enough they “Bridged”, but they then super bounced the flag out of the map. Two of them managed to get out of the map, the other two failed to perform the super jump, and our random team mate promptly quits. For the first hour of the game we just slaughtered them in kills, in hopes that they’d either quit or just score the flag. They didn’t do either. After about 300 tries, Mr. Host (OXTAGON) FINALLY successfully super jumped out of the map with the sniper. At this point, the game was going nowhere, sure we were slaughtering the one guy on their team that was still in the map, but that was not enough. I had to resort to Super bouncing myself, something I’ve never done in match making before. After teaching myself how to do the jump, I successfully got out of the map, and began looking for the flag guy... what happens? They bridge and kill me. For the last hour I kept trying to get out of the map to find the flag guy. Every time I managed to pull off the jump properly, Hosty would try and out BR me, fail every time, and right before he was about to die he would again bridge and kill me. After nearly 2 and a half hours of this, we quit. They “won”.

Why do it? Was there some sort of twisted sense of accomplishment at the end? Do they now believe they are better at the game then us? I’ve been trying to wrap my mind around why these types of people do what they do for so long. I honestly cannot understand. Why do I play Halo? Simple, to have fun and win. If we lose a legitimate game, that’s fine, we move and play again. But why do cheaters do it. How can you find it fun? There is no skill involved. Do they do it for the rank? Do they do it because they know they are not good at the game, and simply have no other way of winning? And even better than why do they do it... why do they deny it? I cannot say how many times I’ve been the victim of some sort of network manipulation. After the game I’d congratulate the other team on their cheating skills... and they say they don’t cheat. Why deny it? I don’t think I’ll ever understand it.

Bottom line: I’ve played this game since the day of its release, and I’ll play it until Halo 3’s release. I’ve gone through 5 different gamer tags and thousands upon thousands of games. I’m not the best, and far from the worth. I don’t have the best K/D ratio, nor the most wins. However, there is one stat that I believe I do own. I firmly believe that I’ve been cheated more times than any single other person that’s played this game.
Without the Halo franchise the Xbox probably would have flopped. Without Halo 2 Xbox Live would never have taken off as well as it did. I know Microsoft is all about making money, but have a little respect for the fans that helped your company succeed in the video game industry. Stop with these garbage temporary bans. Stop giving them chances. On the first cheating offence, ban the Xbox from accessing Live ever again. We know it’s possible... do it. I know you guys are busy working on Halo 3, but it’s not too late to save Halo 2.

This post was not made to gain your sympathy, or pity. I am aware no actual Bungie employee cares. This is just a rant that’s been nearly 3 years in the making, and I just decided to vent.

WALL OF TEXT’D


Why stay in a game for 3 hours then quit? At least hold up till they quit or stand your ground.

If people cheat, they cheat. It's their choice. Stop complaining.

And wtf? Superbouncing is NOT cheating. Bungie even said this themsleves. It's a glitch in the game, it isnt a manipulated file or network connection. Same goes with Button combos. Many consider it cheating but like superbounce its a glitch in the game. Everyone can do it, its just you lazy asses that dont take the time to do it and rather waste time writing these complaints.

  • 07.31.2007 7:47 AM PDT

GT - Assassin 45

I would have quit early in this game. Think of how many other games you could have played and possibly leveled up in. I just quit and hopefully they'll level up to a 50 fast and I won't have to play them anymore. Halo 3 is almost here so you won't have to worry about it much more. You will find though that the same people who are higher levels in Halo 2 and use button combos will be still beating you in 3. They take the time to learn how to win using all of the tricks and adapting. If there is no bxr or double shot they will just improvise and you will still lose.

  • 07.31.2007 9:10 AM PDT

One of my Halo 3 montages.

hey sergeant goon, it IS cheating. it may not be bannable by bungie but they said it's cheating and you should leave feedback for xbox live.

  • 07.31.2007 9:53 AM PDT
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Posted by: KrIpToKnIgHT

Why stay in a game for 3 hours then quit? At least hold up till they quit or stand your ground.

If people cheat, they cheat. It's their choice. Stop complaining.



Cheating is choice so therefore it's okay??? What kind of logic is that? This is the mentality that ruins the game for those who want to play fair and understand that cheating is just simply wrong. All cheating does is show your lack of skill, ability and morals.

Is this how you think in general? Do you go about your whole life cheating to get ahead? If so, you're pathetic.


[Edited on 07.31.2007 9:55 AM PDT]

  • 07.31.2007 9:54 AM PDT
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....There are cheaters in all aspects of life, why should Videogames be different?

  • 07.31.2007 9:56 AM PDT
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Posted by: Rellik09
....There are cheaters in all aspects of life, why should Videogames be different?


[sarcasm on]
Yeah everybody, just accept that you will get cheated in life. Don't do anything to stop it or defend yourself against it. Or better yet, you should cheat as well! Everyone's doing it! Come on, it's fun. It only ruins the game for everyone, but who cares? The more cheating that goes on, the less and less people will play until it's just the cheaters cheating themselves. Oh, the joy!!!
[sarcasm off]

  • 07.31.2007 10:07 AM PDT
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Try all you want nitku, to stop cheaters, and you will fail.

Now you know, and knowing is half the battle.

  • 07.31.2007 10:13 AM PDT

Freedom of Speech does not equal "Freedom from Consequences when one speaks".

It is a right, and all rights have responsibilities associated with them. Ignore the responsibility, and you tend to lose the right.
Recon Number 54

Posted by: xXfactor
This post was not made to gain your sympathy, or pity. I am aware no actual Bungie employee cares. This is just a rant that’s been nearly 3 years in the making, and I just decided to vent.



I feel your pain, bro'. While I've never had a game as bad as the one you describe, I'm sick and tired of the cheating too. Our culture has bred a generation of kids who hack, send computer viruses, cheat, talk back, shoot up schools, etc. The only consolation I can offer is that there's just a few more weeks before H3. Hang in there! I think many of the abusers have original XBoxes, and won't be able to play right away. (Daddy's going to wait for XMas to buy it for them.) Also, the Banhammer works better with the 360, and the feedback/complaint system is more comprehensive for H3.

Posted by: Warp Yoshimitsu

How's this for an analogy? You guys are playing air hockey and you randomly pull out another paddle so that absolutely nothing gets through into your goal. He then says it's cheating because you have 2 paddles so that there is no opening to your goal. But YOU say, "Hey, you can get another paddle and do the same as me so it's not cheating". Then he tells you that the game is meant to be played with only one paddle and that he would rather not cheat by using another paddle that wasn't even meant for that game.


Excellent analogy!

And not that I'm making it sound like button-glitches are "pros" or anything, just offering another analogy. Cheaters claim that since the glitches are "in the game", everyone should just learn how to do them so everyone will be playing "at the same level". Would they also say that some kids playing stickball in Brooklyn could only play baseball in Yankee Stadium against the Yankees? Not a perfect analogy, but what I'm trying to say is that there are venues for everyone to play at the level appropriate for either their skill or preference. I have my settings set at "Recreational", yet it makes no difference who I end up matched against. MM should be for the rules as set forth by Bungie, and LAN matches, etc. can use whatever rules they want. When players come into MM using a set of rules that not everyone has accepted from the start, knowing that those rules constitute an unfair advantage, that equals unfair gameplay. It always amazes me how in-denial cheaters are when you confront them in the post game lobby.

And another comment for button-glitchers who claim that what they do doesn't affect the outcome of a match: you may not realize (since you're the one doing the glitching) that in some circumstances, especially in melees, that what you do actually cancels the opponent's ability to counter. Oh, that's fair. Picture a game of chess. One player says, "Hah, checkmate!" Other player says, "Um, no. Before we started playing I decided to use some rules my friend told me about. So, right now I can make two moves at once and take your Queen."

Can't wait for H3. H2 will die a quick death (unfortunately...RIP). I remember reading several threads over on the H3 forum while the Beta was going on, from H2 cheaters upset because they didn't have an advantage any longer. Tables will turn...

  • 07.31.2007 10:19 AM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

Visit us and check out our games at Sandswept.net!

~~Pardon Our Dust.~~

Well, I would like to casually point out that Superbouncing IS cheating... ;)

  • 07.31.2007 10:25 AM PDT
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Posted by: Rellik09
Try all you want nitku, to stop cheaters, and you will fail.

Now you know, and knowing is half the battle.


Gee thanks Rellik for your wisdom. Wow, knowledge is power! KNOW YOU WILL FAIL! Okay, so what is my next lesson? I am not as wise to the ways of this cruel world.

  • 07.31.2007 10:34 AM PDT

they are saving halo 2...

its called halo 3!

  • 07.31.2007 10:45 AM PDT
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Posted by: camaro6768
they are saving halo 2...

its called halo 3!


You're right about that. I can't see myself playing much H2 once H3 comes out. Actually, I can't see myself playing much of anything else! Hopefully, Bungie has instituted some good deterrents to minimize the effects of the cheaters.

  • 07.31.2007 12:13 PM PDT
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i think modding is cool for customs. but very annoying in matchmaking and oter thing.
like this guy was modding in team slayer, and i hated it.
then i went to hid party and i loved flying around,using messed up guns, and usuing flying turrents!

the forced me to join there game if i wantted to play in moded customs.


the cland name is 25 FOR LIFE....the moders name is BERSKER

  • 07.31.2007 4:34 PM PDT
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i am going to also play halo 2 whgen halo 3 comes out!

because if i don't i will miss all my friends!

that i have so much fun with
Posted by: cookies9977
i think modding is cool for customs. but very annoying in matchmaking and oter thing.
like this guy was modding in team slayer, and i hated it.
then i went to hid party and i loved flying around,using messed up guns, and usuing flying turrents!

the forced me to join there game if i wantted to play in moded customs.


the cland name is 25 FOR LIFE....the moders name is BERSKER

  • 07.31.2007 4:36 PM PDT
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[b] Some people will say "We all have access to these glitches, therefore it’s not cheating". Well kids, life is all about choices. I’ve made the choice not to exploit glitches. If you made the choice to glitch, you are a cheater.


Just to let you know... this thread will be locked soon...and i really dont get why people complain about button glitches. it doesnt change the whole game around, its hard to pull off, and yes,,i will say it takes way more skill than to just shoot someone. these glitches make the game way more interesting. EVERYONE CAN DO THEM!!! if you dont agree with this, then consider this.Some people cant shoot headshots with a sniper. so are you going to say that since not everyone can do that people who do should be banned???????

IDK it is considered cheating, but whoever whines and complains about is really sux, cause they do add different layers of skill to the game

  • 07.31.2007 4:49 PM PDT
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Srsly, we've all been cheated.. many, many times. You have the right to complain, and vent, like each and every one of us did at some point in the past 3 years. But, I gotta tell ya, YOU MISSED THE BOAT dude. This is old hat.

Also, why the *** would you stay in that game for 2 1/2 hrs?? I understand what it's like to be cheated, how angry it can make you, and that feeling where you just need to kill the cheater to teabag him relentlessly for being such an -blam!-. But you could have easily just quit out of that game, and spent the next two hours playing legit games.

  • 07.31.2007 4:58 PM PDT
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I'm sorry to tell you guys, but in most people's book exploiting is cheating. Superbounceing, and button combo's are exploiting. When the game was made, these things were not purposely put in. Using a glitch to your advantage is exploiting, I don't care if you believe it or not, it's the truth. "Exploiting" in any online game I've played leads to two things, a fix to get rid of it, and bans to all of the people who did use it.

I'm willing to bet that most cheaters(exploiters if you wanna whine and say that glitching is not cheating) are children. They don't quite understand what it means to be respectful to others(this most likely goes for some adults.) I personally feel horrible if I knowingly cheat against someone, knowing that I didn't use skill. I can't even comprehend how you can enjoy doing these things, knowingly ruining other people's fun.


I completely agree with the Original authors thread.

To the guy with the original air hockey anology, thanks for proving the mentality of a cheater, and how idiotic you really are. If you agree at all with his statement I suggest checking your IQ, because it did not make since at all.

  • 07.31.2007 5:35 PM PDT

And I wonder if they feel like I do...that something else has just shown up, with its own locked and loaded magazine of manifest destiny, set to bring forth a new kind of reckoning...

http://www.betodesigns.com
http://www.eitrance.com

i think its funny that people complain about getting owned by BXR or w/e...ive never used it and never had problems with it either...never even noticed it

  • 07.31.2007 5:39 PM PDT
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I think that it would be fun---what the OP was talking---sitting there going +72.....it'd be worth it!

  • 07.31.2007 5:53 PM PDT
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Posted by: niktu
Posted by: KrIpToKnIgHT

Why stay in a game for 3 hours then quit? At least hold up till they quit or stand your ground.

If people cheat, they cheat. It's their choice. Stop complaining.



Cheating is choice so therefore it's okay??? What kind of logic is that? This is the mentality that ruins the game for those who want to play fair and understand that cheating is just simply wrong. All cheating does is show your lack of skill, ability and morals.

Is this how you think in general? Do you go about your whole life cheating to get ahead? If so, you're pathetic.


Where'd he say it was okay? i think he just said stop complaining. Its gonna happen, but you know what, its just a game. You'll get cheated in real life, and people will care less than Bungie does for you now. He was absolutely right, and you -blam!-ed him out, for essentially no reason. He never said he cheated, never said he supported cheating, but you know what, he had the common sense to realize that coming to a forum and crying about it won't do much of anything. Send an email to the proper address, and be done with it, or leave feedback. COMPLAINING ACCOMPLISHES NOTHING. IT NEVER WILL. GET USED TO IT. You think Bungie didn't already know of bridging, or all forms of cheating. they are trying to fix it. no matter what they do to close one hole, it will open another, and the cheaters will find another way.

He never once said cheating was alright, or that he did it, and yet you lash out and basically called him pathetic and a cheater. Get a reality check buddy.

  • 07.31.2007 6:03 PM PDT

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