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Subject: B.Net Culture & Variable Spam Filters: A Manifesto Followed by ...

I am a Floodian

Posted by: Duardo
Posted by: odmichael
Totally incorrect squirrel dude. We are equal. Nobody has more "voice" than anybody else. Just because old members are gone doesn't mean new members have more say. Every member has their own opinion on a subject. It doesn't matter how old a member is. Every member is right and wrong.

There is no "Higher Status" between members. Every member is equally important in the success of this community. If you have a problem with a newer member you help them to adjust to our forum setting. You will give them the experience they need to move on in the community.

Groups are fine the way they are. A group moderater isn't about how old a member they are. It's about leadership skills and understanding of the rules. I have seen newer members make awsome groups, and older ones make terrible groups. It's a question of responsebility and if you can handle it or not.

New members are always coming in. I can see thousands of new members popping by with the launch of Halo 3. So get used to it. This community is far from dying.

odmichael hit the nail on the head. There is no "higher status" between members. There's no elitism, although people like to think so (Speaking of which, I'm getting tired of seeing this so called "elitism" being the problem with everything. It's getting really old and quite ridiculous).

It doesn't matter whether someone is a Forum Ninja, a Webcam MVP, a Theme Master, or just a regular member. No one is higher than anyone else. Remember the Forum Ninjas are members too. They still like to interact with the community, however, they have more responsibilities because they are more trustworthy and are more experienced.

To say elitism doesn't exist is ignorant. It exists, it has always, and will always exist. Being a regular and how long a member has been at b.net will always be the causes of it.

  • 08.18.2007 11:59 AM PDT
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It will only exist if you believe in it. Just get over it is what I say. If people could let it go, then bungie.net would be a better place.

  • 08.18.2007 12:05 PM PDT

I am a Floodian

I don't believe it should exist, but to say it doesn't would be ignorant. I don't like war, but to say it doesn't happen is ignorant. See what I am getting at.

  • 08.18.2007 12:33 PM PDT
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Posted by: squirrel dude
I don't believe it should exist, but to say it doesn't would be ignorant. I don't like war, but to say it doesn't happen is ignorant. See what I am getting at.

I do not see elitism on this site.

This is elitism
The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources..

This is what I believe bungie.net has, favoritism
the favoring of one person or group over others with equal claims

Favortism is equal. While you might FAVOR older members, it does not make them superiority or give them special treatment. It's fine to like some people on this site more than others. That is fine. However, that doesn't give them any benefits. I do see elitism occasionally in groups. However, that is the group leader's choice. As far as the main forums go we are equal whether people like it or not.

  • 08.18.2007 12:52 PM PDT

I am a Floodian

Though I hate to use Impy as an example, he is a great example of elitism. He is a great guy, but he should be permabanned by now, for all the crap he posts on the forums.

  • 08.18.2007 12:55 PM PDT
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Posted by: squirrel dude
Though I hate to use Impy as an example, he is a great example of elitism. He is a great guy, but he should be permabanned by now, for all the crap he posts on the forums.

Not exactly. The reason why he doesn't get the blacklist is because he shoves it in a proper forum. He sticks it in the flood. While his posts are dumb, he sticks them in the proper forum- the flood, which is also a more held back forum. If he were to stick the spam in the Halo 3 forum, he would be banned. That's the difference.

In his case he needs a spam group.

  • 08.18.2007 1:03 PM PDT

I am a Floodian

The Flood already has enough problems with spam, it doesn't need more of it, especially not more of it from a thread maker who will most likely be drunk. Also, there are many times where it is obvious that if anyone else made that thread they would be blacklisted, when he isn't.

  • 08.18.2007 1:15 PM PDT
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Posted by: squirrel dude
The Flood already has enough problems with spam, it doesn't need more of it, especially not more of it from a thread maker who will most likely be drunk. Also, there are many times where it is obvious that if anyone else made that thread they would be blacklisted, when he isn't.


It's hard to say. I really don't pay as much attention to the flood. I have seen some of his topics. They aren't that bad. I mean, do you think you would be banned for showing a post on clowns? While it doesn't ammuse me as much (I have seen the commercial anyway), it isn't really a banable offense. If he posted the same topic repeatedly I could see where your going at. But his topics aren't like "Rick Roll". While you see it as just pure spam, he does pose different topics and can be serious sometimes.

  • 08.18.2007 1:22 PM PDT

I am a Floodian

It's not just that though, it's that he has been banned for some of them, many of them. However, he has never been permabanned.

However I am not a mod, so I don't know why he hasn't and can't really judge them in that way. Well, my whole point was to say, is that elitism already exists, and the new members that are joining right now will make it hard for Fomans plan, if it was possible, to actually work.

  • 08.18.2007 1:28 PM PDT
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Talk to the Soul | ~B.B. | Know Your Duardo |  | Hero | ISFJ | 77135 | 94371

"It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me."

Posted by: squirrel dude
It's not just that though, it's that he has been banned for some of them, many of them. However, he has never been permabanned.

However I am not a mod, so I don't know why he hasn't and can't really judge them in that way. Well, my whole point was to say, is that elitism already exists, and the new members that are joining right now will make it hard for Fomans plan, if it was possible, to actually work.

Perhaps they are more lenient on him because of his former work as a mod. Who knows.

I haven't seen any elitism in quite a while...I believe the last time I saw it was when we had the join dates under out avatars on the old B.net. I haven't seen it since then. Could you possibly give an example from the last two weeks?

Back on topic. I really don't see how Foman's idea could go over very well, especially with newer members.

  • 08.18.2007 1:50 PM PDT

I am a Floodian

Elitism is subtle. I can't give an example of it because I don't record the incidents in my head, I just see them happen, record that they did, and move on. When you look at a thread, and you see the author as someone you know, you will check it out, even if you have a hunch it might be spam. I do it, it'sinvoluntary, a bad habit. Elitism can be something as simple as that, or as complex as members flaming other members because they aren't regulars.

To make an analogy of it. If the new members are freshmen, then the regulars are seniors.

On topic: Foman's idead could work. However, it would have to be done a little while after Halo 3 is released, so that the newer members would have begun to get into the flow of things, and realize how everything works here. Also, the alert system needs to be made as a news story, and Septagon topic, and as a PM. That way members who are gone, see the changes that have taken effect while they were gone.

  • 08.18.2007 5:00 PM PDT
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Posted by: squirrel dude
Elitism is subtle. I can't give an example of it because I don't record the incidents in my head, I just see them happen, record that they did, and move on. When you look at a thread, and you see the author as someone you know, you will check it out, even if you have a hunch it might be spam. I do it, it'sinvoluntary, a bad habit. Elitism can be something as simple as that, or as complex as members flaming other members because they aren't regulars.
First off, that isn't elitism. That is favortism. What is the reward they get for looking at their post? You might say that you posted. However, you can give negative feedback to their post.

Also I don't post in anybody topic unless I am interested in it. That is why you don't see me in the gallerey all the time.


To make an analogy of it. If the new members are freshmen, then the regulars are seniors.
Here is more to your analogy: Some people get left back, others moved up. These forums are EQUAL whether you believe it or not.

  • 08.18.2007 5:32 PM PDT

I am a Floodian

Is there really a difference between favoritism and elitism. Also, you need to understand, I almost only post in The Flood, where to put it simply: If your not a regular, and your an idiot, your as good as dead there. It's just how it is. I guess it's something I've just gotten used to, and why I use groups, and the Septagon more.

odmicheal, you and I are equals. Every member is equal in my eyes. I know members who litteraly have vendettas against the new members because they think they can, because they are "regulars." Again, I have learned to live with it. Whether certain mods want to admit it or not, each board is becoming more and more of a seperate community, with the Septagon being the only forum that seems to draw members and mods from all accross b.net.

This is another problem with Fomans plan. Each forum would have different reactions to what happens, and it would be hard to make a plan like his that would please all parties. It's just how it is.

Again, this is me simply speaking from experience about The Flood. It's a crazy, screwed up, testosterone filled cesspool, but I love it.

  • 08.18.2007 7:34 PM PDT
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I agree that each forum would have a different reaction to what would happen with Foman's idea. But that involves people who just don't care about the rules. And that is anybody.



Anway, I am only online for a few more minutes. Then I leave for cross country camp in upstate NY. I'll see you all on Friday :)

  • 08.19.2007 4:01 AM PDT
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odmichael has a good point... What you are seeing is not elitism.

Elitism would be checking the join dates of all OPs, and only reading their thread if they were members since before 2005, for instance. I'm pretty sure if a member is 'old' but you don't know him, or haven't 'met' him before he's just as likely to get the same treatment as a new member. It's when you know that a member is posting out of character that you can let things slide... I might see a friend of mine post something off-topic but funny in the Septagon, but I'd know that that's not what he normally does and it's meant in good spirits, as a joke. He may receive OT replies in kind from other members.

On the flip side if someone posted off-topic in the Septagon and we didn't know who they were then their thread would be locked. We wouldn't have a bar to measure them against, and their thread would be pure spammity-spam.

It is not elitism to give a little leeway to members who you know are generally good, constructive posters. Likewise, it is not foolish to deny that leeway to members without that reputation, no matter how old they are.

Trust comes with a reputation, and a reputation comes with time. So it may seem that older members are favoured when actually... They have just 'proved' themselves worthy of a little relaxation in the rules.

  • 08.19.2007 5:10 AM PDT

etc etc/glaringly obvious/and so on, and such <=Not redundant!
Posted by: Cr4ne Style
Taxes do nothing to affect the share of wealth, since taxes are only applied to income.

So that's not even a part of the conversation at all, so it's pointless talking about it....

"for a "best" moral to exist, there must exist the "best" moral base. If the base of morality varies from location to location, culture to culture...then there can't be an absolute moral..

Posted by: Saint
Trust comes with a reputation, and a reputation comes with time. So it may seem that older members are favoured when actually... They have just 'proved' themselves worthy of a little relaxation in the rules.


saint is on the right track with this. we as individual readers form opinions of various bnet members, and we may be more likely to check out a given thread if we see that a person whom we respect has posted recently. that explains why i checked out this thread today: i saw that saint posted and i know that he makes informative posts, so i took a look. the opinions that we form of posters does not always work based on respect. i personally check out posts started by guys like karganeth, cadillac, and tai mt because i know that their posts are likely to amuse the heck out of me since they make wild claims routinely.

in any case, any kind of reputation that members have boils down to personal tastes that we as members have. elitism does not enter into the equation at all. no matter how elite a person believes he is (mlg chee wah wah, for example), and no matter how many times friends of posters chime in to hype up a member (mlg chee wah wah's friends, for example), the opinions of other posters are not likely to alter our own opinions of posters.

no matter what is done in the forums, we will all enjoy being able to read about halo, we will enjoy posting about halo, and we will enjoy exchanges about halo that take shape in the forums. we will think more or less of various posters, but the reputation of a bnet poster is nearly immaterial. what is most important is that all of us can take and leave as much from the forums as we would like.

[Edited on 08.20.2007 9:28 AM PDT]

  • 08.20.2007 9:27 AM PDT

etc etc/glaringly obvious/and so on, and such <=Not redundant!
Posted by: Cr4ne Style
Taxes do nothing to affect the share of wealth, since taxes are only applied to income.

So that's not even a part of the conversation at all, so it's pointless talking about it....

"for a "best" moral to exist, there must exist the "best" moral base. If the base of morality varies from location to location, culture to culture...then there can't be an absolute moral..

Posted by: squirrel dude
Is there really a difference between favoritism and elitism.


they are similar in the threads because they are both of little consequence. we are free to post in the threads unless we break the rules, and we are free to read the threads. everytime anyone posts, their posts appear in order of entry.

if anyone is worried about bnet favoritism or elitism, then they are worrying about nothing. if anyone gets excited about being a bnet celeb or elite, then they are getting jollies from a strange and hollow source.

  • 08.20.2007 9:32 AM PDT