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Subject: Dual Weilding is NOW obsolete

John 3:16

I've noticed how obsolete dual wielding has become. I used to use them, even during MLG games. But now, it seems that everybody just uses the BR, shotgun, sniper, rocket, and sword.

That is not my complaint. My complaint is that Dual Wielding sucks. At least, in most situations. If their power hadn't been dropped down.
Sure, the magnum and the PR were very good support weapons. And they probobly overshadow other dual wielding weapons. But it;'s not like anyone even bothered to pick up anything besides PR's, Magnums, PP's, and SMG's. That's, probobly the whole list I know. But they pretty much suck now.

Here's a video of one of MLG's best. OGRE 1. his score was 41-0.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApwDzmYam5s

Notice how he didn't use the BR 100% of the game. That's because dual wielding was useful before the update. Even with all the button combinations now, the power that the PR and the Magnum had made fighting against dual weldings a worthy adversary. Now they (Dual Wielding) are overshadowed by single wield weapons. Even strategically, it's not smart to use a dual wield unless it's for a specific reason, and for a specific moment. Even then, dual wielders drop their guns for a single wield. Obviously because it's more useful.


MY POINT
-----------------------------------------
The weakening of both the PR and the magnum "2 of Halo 2's best duals" put more emphases to specialized weapons which now overshadow dual wielding. Like Shotguns, swords, BR's, and rockets. Even with the existence of button combinations.

[Edited on 08.06.2007 6:43 PM PDT]

  • 08.06.2007 6:42 PM PDT
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Dual wielding was bad for halo IMO. Making dual weildable weapons in this game makes it insanely hard to actually balance the duals. If you start off with one dual, your weak, but if you pick up another to actually have an effective weapon, you have short range, and you're unable to use your grenades if you have an opponent at far range. And then, like they had it before, you have the situation where a single weapon can be effective, but when dualed, the combo becomes too powerful. So they decided to weaken duals to a point where its illogical to choose them over a BR.

My point, get rid of the ability to dual wield, and make the now dual wieldable weapons stronger. They did it with the needler, and suddnely people like to use it. Just get rid of the SMG for Halo3 and keep the assualt rifle. Give the Plasma Rifle more accuracy and range, and give it its Halo1 stun affect back, etc.

There's really nothing they can do about Halo2 now, its too little too late.

  • 08.06.2007 7:34 PM PDT

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Use your head. The one on your shoulders. No really, just try. Please?

˙sɹǝʇndɯoɔ ɥʇıʍ pooƃ os ʇou ɯ,ı 'ǝɹǝɥ ʇǝƃ sıɥʇ pıp ʍoɥ 'lol

That wasn't too impressive, especially for 'pro' Any jerk can get 41 kills if they get 8+ sniper rifles and the sword, while having team mates that actually cover you, and no one pursues you under cover because you have a rep.

  • 08.06.2007 7:35 PM PDT
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Location: Outlaws' Summit.

Good post FK, I agree. Dual wielding definitely changed weapon balancing for the worse. However, it is a little too late to fix it, unless you play primarily hardcore/MLG.

This is all opinions though, if you prefer duals, then that's all good. Duals actually work well in some situations, but overall it makes for sloppy gameplay based less on skill and more on "spray and pray."

However, for the sake of variety, I'm actually glad to see it in Halo 3, where they made the proper changes- namely dropping the SMG for the AR as the starting weapon. Now, there's less an emphasis on dual wields and more on the core gameplay (grenades, weapons, melee) while keeping them and having them in perspective (if you see it, pick it up and use it if the situation calls for it.

All in all though, the SMG was a bit of a mistake, but it gets the job done, sometimes. I'm just glad they're fixing this for H3

  • 08.06.2007 7:49 PM PDT
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Posted by: spartanfornow
That wasn't too impressive, especially for 'pro' Any jerk can get 41 kills if they get 8+ sniper rifles and the sword, while having team mates that actually cover you, and no one pursues you under cover because you have a rep.


You're a joke.

  • 08.06.2007 7:54 PM PDT
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You can't say that Duel-Wielding doesn't not work with SMG spawn? Please! Like it's useless in Midship? Or in some parts of Lockout.

For the most part though...yeah----useless!!!

  • 08.06.2007 7:56 PM PDT
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Posted by: Rellik09
You can't say that Duel-Wielding doesn't not work with SMG spawn? Please! Like it's useless in Midship? Or in some parts of Lockout.

For the most part though...yeah----useless!!!


After I pick up BR and camp P2, or if my teammate gets the other BR, I can sit Midship where duals are useless against me, then yes, Duals don't work.

  • 08.06.2007 8:02 PM PDT
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eh Sorry if I'm interrupting or if this has already been posted but. Usually when in doubt I use a Elite PR and a Brute PR in dual when I can't find any high powered weapons in the narrow alleys of Turf, the bends and turns of Backwash, or the other small maps of Halo 2. With a good reflects the combination works the best when up against a single enemy by over heating one PR then switching to the other till it is overheating and returning to the other, if they have an over shield I sometimes keep a PG or two in my inventory, just in case I run into a situation like so. if the batteries run out I either search for replacements, go after the PP, go after the shotgun, or take out my other weapon. My average weaponry would eather be Dual EPR and BPR with the shotgun, or Dual EPR and BPR with the energy sword, with atleast one grenade. It is a good tactic don't you think?

  • 08.06.2007 8:08 PM PDT

Gamertags: defghik, sneaky beav3r. Send me a FR if you play MLG customs.

Sad but true... Halo 1 > Halo 2>>>Halo 3

Posted by: YOU will be DOA
Posted by: xVxV3ndettA
I've noticed how obsolete dual wielding has become. I used to use them, even during MLG games. But now, it seems that everybody just uses the BR, shotgun, sniper, rocket, and sword.

[/b]


That's amazing, you got to use DUAL WIELDING weapons with MLG games, you really might want to check your settings there big guy. Hardcore isn't MLG, it's close but also not....

Notice how he said "used, to", which is past tense. You probably don't know this, but MLG used default weapons on map for '05.
On topic, I hate dual wielding, so I'd rather just have it removed from the game. I have reasons, but they were already explained in this thread, so I don't really feel like I need to go into detail.

[Edited on 08.06.2007 10:14 PM PDT]

  • 08.06.2007 10:13 PM PDT
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What about team duals or when all of the single wield weapons have been taken on a level?

  • 08.06.2007 11:09 PM PDT

Why the hell are you looking at this? Get out.

And no group invites, you jerk. I'm not interested.

Halo 3.

  • 08.06.2007 11:10 PM PDT

John 3:16

Posted by: FKxPandemic
Dual wielding was bad for halo IMO. Making dual weildable weapons in this game makes it insanely hard to actually balance the duals. If you start off with one dual, your weak, but if you pick up another to actually have an effective weapon, you have short range, and you're unable to use your grenades if you have an opponent at far range. And then, like they had it before, you have the situation where a single weapon can be effective, but when dualed, the combo becomes too powerful. So they decided to weaken duals to a point where its illogical to choose them over a BR.

My point, get rid of the ability to dual wield, and make the now dual wieldable weapons stronger. They did it with the needler, and suddnely people like to use it. Just get rid of the SMG for Halo3 and keep the assualt rifle. Give the Plasma Rifle more accuracy and range, and give it its Halo1 stun affect back, etc.

There's really nothing they can do about Halo2 now, its too little too late.


I completely agree with you. At least for the most part. For competitive games, i really don't think dualing will work. But I do enjoy using them when I don't feel like playing competitively. At least, I did in Halo 3.

Well, my point was that they made an un-balanced game even more unbalanced by weakening them. They might as well as removed duel wielding since it's so useless now. It didn't help with the balance anyways.

I'm just talking about how Dual wielding was actually useful before the update.

  • 08.06.2007 11:12 PM PDT

my other account, if you are gonna send me an FR, send it to this account and my Main GT.

Posted by: YOU will be DOA
Posted by: xVxV3ndettA
I've noticed how obsolete dual wielding has become. I used to use them, even during MLG games. But now, it seems that everybody just uses the BR, shotgun, sniper, rocket, and sword.

[/b]


That's amazing, you got to use DUAL WIELDING weapons with MLG games, you really might want to check your settings there big guy. Hardcore isn't MLG, it's close but also not....


he said used to dual wield. even so, ts on sanctuary has map default weapons in mlg.

  • 08.06.2007 11:50 PM PDT

Posted by: FKxPandemic
Making dual weildable weapons in this game makes it insanely hard to actually balance the duals.

Yep.

My point, get rid of the ability to dual wield, and make the now dual wieldable weapons stronger. They did it with the needler, and suddnely people like to use it. Just get rid of the SMG for Halo3 and keep the assualt rifle. Give the Plasma Rifle more accuracy and range, and give it its Halo1 stun affect back, etc.

The needler is an uncomfortable bit of glaring evidence for anyone who doesn't agree.

  • 08.07.2007 3:01 AM PDT

Posted by: ICEMAN ASSASS1N
Kevin's post = breath of fresh air.
Take it from this guy people, he knows what he's talking about.

Second accounts are NOT cheating:
http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?cid=13824

Dual weilding is really only effective against people who are standbying. Most of the maps are too large or too open for duals to constantly be effective. There are way too many people out there who have beacome good with the BR and how to properly use it for duals to be any good against them.

  • 08.07.2007 6:47 AM PDT
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Posted by: FKxPandemic
Dual wielding was bad for halo IMO. Making dual weildable weapons in this game makes it insanely hard to actually balance the duals. If you start off with one dual, your weak, but if you pick up another to actually have an effective weapon, you have short range, and you're unable to use your grenades if you have an opponent at far range. And then, like they had it before, you have the situation where a single weapon can be effective, but when dualed, the combo becomes too powerful. So they decided to weaken duals to a point where its illogical to choose them over a BR.

My point, get rid of the ability to dual wield, and make the now dual wieldable weapons stronger. They did it with the needler, and suddnely people like to use it. Just get rid of the SMG for Halo3 and keep the assualt rifle. Give the Plasma Rifle more accuracy and range, and give it its Halo1 stun affect back, etc.

There's really nothing they can do about Halo2 now, its too little too late.
sometimes a single wield will still have the upper hand though, like in a match where you start of wit the smg on midship, if you can get the jump on your enemy you can tear them up before they can even react, you just need to make sure you are doing so at the correct range

  • 08.07.2007 6:51 AM PDT
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Posted by: YOU will be DOA
Posted by: xVxV3ndettA
I've noticed how obsolete dual wielding has become. I used to use them, even during MLG games. But now, it seems that everybody just uses the BR, shotgun, sniper, rocket, and sword.

[/b]


That's amazing, you got to use DUAL WIELDING weapons with MLG games, you really might want to check your settings there big guy. Hardcore isn't MLG, it's close but also not....


Its amazing how hard you just failed.


SMG+Pistol was one of the most popular combos at MLG before the update. On LAN, it killed hella fast.

  • 08.07.2007 7:10 AM PDT
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Wow I always though the game he went 41-0 in was slayer, thats kinda dissapointing its really not that hard to do in king of the hill as long as you stay out..and he even had the sword and sniper.

  • 08.07.2007 7:33 AM PDT
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SMG/PlasmaRifle if very good. In close-mid quarters SMG/PR wins, in mid distance if you attack first you can win too.

It isnt all about power weapons.


EDIT - sorry, i see what your saying, but i dont see much a difference. I wasnt here for a year, what update were you talking about?

[Edited on 08.07.2007 7:42 AM PDT]

  • 08.07.2007 7:35 AM PDT
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Posted by: Head HunterTE
eh Sorry if I'm interrupting or if this has already been posted but. Usually when in doubt I use a Elite PR and a Brute PR in dual when I can't find any high powered weapons in the narrow alleys of Turf, the bends and turns of Backwash, or the other small maps of Halo 2. With a good reflects the combination works the best when up against a single enemy by over heating one PR then switching to the other till it is overheating and returning to the other, if they have an over shield I sometimes keep a PG or two in my inventory, just in case I run into a situation like so. if the batteries run out I either search for replacements, go after the PP, go after the shotgun, or take out my other weapon. My average weaponry would eather be Dual EPR and BPR with the shotgun, or Dual EPR and BPR with the energy sword, with atleast one grenade. It is a good tactic don't you think?



Please read this post of mine it may help :(

  • 08.07.2007 8:47 AM PDT

In my humble opinion Halo2 1.0 is the best way to play. I honestly can't figure out why they changed the weapons at all. The only that ever needed fixing was the dummy glitch.

  • 08.07.2007 9:16 AM PDT
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I still own with Duals, this thread is obsolete.

  • 08.07.2007 9:19 AM PDT
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Posted by: TxV Aureole
I still own with Duals, this thread is obsolete.


We're not talking about one's skill with duals we're talking about their ineffectiveness for the most part in respect to balanced gameplay.

FK's post summed it up real nicely on why dual wielding was a mistake. Bungie themselves realized it was a mistake, which is why they fixed it for Halo 3 with the Assault Rifle start. Because even though the AR can't shoot far, you have grenades, which can do a lot of damage in H3, and they want you to mix it up. They want you to throw a grenade, then start shooting. They want you to melee in close quarters. With the SMG it was about grabbing another weapon to dual wield with and the emphasis on grenades and melee were undermined.

Hence why we have BR start games. They allow grenade and melee emphasis when needed, but the problem with BR start was that you have total map lockdown the entire match. For competitive gaming, this works though, and BR start games do bring out the best in team work. But even the people who are really good with BR's will agree that it's a bit too powerful a weapon to start with, but for a game like Halo 2, it's definitely a better choice than the SMG.

.......I wonder if Halo 3 will have a BR start playlist hmmmmmm.....

  • 08.07.2007 11:52 AM PDT

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