Halo 2 Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: multiplayer issues in halo that must be addressed in halo2
  • Subject: multiplayer issues in halo that must be addressed in halo2
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • of 2
Subject: multiplayer issues in halo that must be addressed in halo2
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I was a founding member if the first halo clan on gamespy early in 2002. I've been playing multiplayer since the very beginning, and i've played with some of the top players in the world. Ogre1, Ogre2, Mildergod, pray4U, crisis etc.. I've had the opportunity to watch the game morph over the last 3 years, and here are some suggestions to keep the game evolving.

Make halo2 harder to mod. There are currently several cheats in multiplayer on the xbox made possible by mod chips. Known cheats are changing bitmaps so that players can see through obsticles. Supposedly there is a jump mod so that aren't hurt by long falls.

Make it so the rocket launcher can be turned off. This is the most powerful weapon. Currently halo games all revolve around controlling rockets, and this makes it really boring.

The new trend in Tournaments is timers. Since the rocket launcher respawns every 30 seconds. The new game revolves around this waiting for the rockets, Make respawns random. make respawn times vary +/-15 seconds.



[Edited on 6/1/2004 2:27:02 PM]

  • 06.01.2004 1:48 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

As for the modding, yes, I agree 100%. But as for the n00b cannon (rocket launcher), who cares? Every game has a rocket launcher, and it is just something that you need to learn to deal with.

  • 06.01.2004 1:53 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

i thought this was gonna be another stupid post with someone reccomending somthing but those were really good ideas. .i agree

  • 06.01.2004 2:01 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

bump

  • 06.02.2004 6:41 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

how many times do you people have to be reminded: bumping is illegal in the forums!

i personally like the RL. its fun. (rockets at prisoner. try it some time)

  • 06.02.2004 6:46 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

so you know, some people here (mods) have issues with bumping posts.
but, i agree. i don't think respawn times should be semi-random with only the rocket launcher, though. powerups should definitely be included. hell, there should be a setting where weapon times AND locations are randomized.

  • 06.02.2004 6:46 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

wow the first sencible post today! and I agree with it!
And why do people insist on saying the "N" word when it brings death

[Edited on 6/2/2004 6:50:55 AM]

  • 06.02.2004 6:48 AM PDT

Twelve Large ²

An army of sheep led by a lion would defeat an army of lions led by a sheep.

First Halo clan, my ass. And your game should be filled with cheats. [face_mean] If you don't want cheats, drop gamespy/xbc and pick up a Live kit.

So what was the name of your clan? Were you Warlord_OS_ ? I think he was on there in 01.

edit* I woke up on the wrong side of the be - Your bad. : p

[Edited on 6/2/2004 6:57:19 AM]

  • 06.02.2004 6:54 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

moded games won't work on XBox Live, if I recall...

  • 06.02.2004 6:56 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Let's see, you didn't flaunt your skill in Halo, yet you brought up strong evidence that you've had experience with the pros. That's something I don't see often on this forum. You get a gold star.

Anyway, I agree with you completely. Mods can really take the fun out of playing, online or at LANs, unless, of course, you're just goofing around shooting Spartans out of the LAAG or something. Then it's hilarious.
As for your second point, I also agree. Halo2 will most likely have more options towards weapon spawns and such, but you could always take out the rocketlauncher in Halo:CE anyway. You can always choose plasma, rifles, snipers, shotguns or any other weapon setting that doesn't include rockets. Even if they had the option to turn it off now, I don't think most tournaments would turn it off because it's abused. After that, they'd just camp the sniper rifle instead.
You're also right about spawn times. Spawning on top of a grenade really takes a lot out of the chances you have at getting anything done, and people like me are too lazy to learn them, but still want a fair chance at winning.

There are two things I'd like to throw in while we're talking suggestions. I know it's been said before, but it's worth saying again. Power-ups should be optional/not present in Halo2 multiplayer. When abused they usually ruin any chance of a confrontation being decided by skill. Ritz is right about the timers, and I remember the first time I went up against Zero-Tolerance there was one thing that really griped me about the whole thing. I was then and am now what you'd call an amateur, but I skill (aiming, shooting, etc.) that I'd say is respectable. Whenever we were on equal terms (same weapons, no powerups) I could usually beat them with my trusty pistol, but that scenario was pretty rare (they may tell you different, but I've got the real story here). They used their stopwatch not just for the rockets, but also for the powerups. Hardly ever did I encounter one running around who wasn't camo'd or didn't have an overshield. Now I know it's possible to beat people with these powerups, and I've done it before. However, at the skill level of the majority of tournament players, that just isn't possible.
It doesn't bother me that much when I'm beat because my opponent outclassed me with his shooting (heck, my friend used to do it all the time), but that game with Z-T really left a bad taste in my mouth. I knew I at least could have won, but lost because they had control of powerups. It's like losing a bet or a game on a small technecality.

Another thing about Halo multiplayer are the differences between humans and elites in multiplayer. There are none, or atleast there aren't any from what I've heard. While I understand this is done to ensure both sides are balanced, I think something should be done to distinguish the sides. I'm not necessarily saying 'one is stronger, but the other is faster' or anything like that. Those things would take a lot of time to perfect and properly balance, but I think they at least deserve a different weapons loadout. I've heard from an XBL alpha tester (char), at least one other person who tried it at E3 that weapons in Halo2 are very well balanced. If that is the case, then a different weapons loadout wouldn't make any significant difference in gameplay. That would draw a distinction between species without giving any one side a major advantage.

Just some thoughts.

  • 06.02.2004 7:31 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

The first halo clan was RED clan back on gamespy. I was Ritz and I played with mildergod. Ask ogre1, ogre2, Lordz who we were. I remember making fun of a guy named CoreyR. Those that were around will know who we were.

Mildergod and I left halo late in 2002 because the game became more and more 1 dimensional around the rockets. We recently started playing again, and now its worse.

The new emphasis on rockets forces players to use generic weapons starting in order to have a chance to disarm rockets. On chillout especially, you can't get to any weapons if you don't start with generic weapons.

In response to those who think I should get off of xbconnect gladly. What do I between now and november 9th?

  • 06.02.2004 8:06 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Scipio


There are two things I'd like to throw in while we're talking suggestions. I know it's been said before, but it's worth saying again. Power-ups should be optional/not present in Halo2 multiplayer. When abused they usually ruin any chance of a confrontation being decided by skill. Ritz is right about the timers, and I remember the first time I went up against Zero-Tolerance there was one thing that really griped me about the whole thing. I was then and am now what you'd call an amateur, but I skill (aiming, shooting, etc.) that I'd say is respectable. Whenever we were on equal terms (same weapons, no powerups) I could usually beat them with my trusty pistol, but that scenario was pretty rare (they may tell you different, but I've got the real story here). They used their stopwatch not just for the rockets, but also for the powerups. Hardly ever did I encounter one running around who wasn't camo'd or didn't have an overshield. Now I know it's possible to beat people with these powerups, and I've done it before. However, at the skill level of the majority of tournament players, that just isn't possible.


I think the multiplayer game is degraded because matchups are no longer decided on skill. However I think that the powerups are counterable. Plasma weapons quickly eat overshield. A good TV makes invisibility easy to spot.

What counters rockets?

  • 06.02.2004 8:10 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

While rockets can be cheap on smaller levels. On larger levels, a sniper shot to the head or three quick pistol shots to the head counter rockets...

I don't really have that much of a problem with rockets on most levels... It only becomes a problem for me on Chillout, but usually I can take out the other team's rocket man pretty fast, or at least make him commit suicide by getting in his face and shooting him from there. Then my teammate can grab the rockets from his dead body.

But anyway, I do like the idea of random respawn times.

I geuss they could give the rockets an even smaller clip or an even longer reload time.

How bout they only put rockets on levels with vehicles.

[Edited on 6/2/2004 8:25:12 AM]

  • 06.02.2004 8:22 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Rockets are so slow you can dodge them on the larger maps like BG but in the smaller ones your right rocket camping occurs but keep in mine RL are different in halo 2 they now lock on to vehicles but do less damage it will be interesting to see how it plays out. Also have you played HPC the fuel rod gun is a good counter and no team can camp on both.

[Edited on 6/2/2004 8:26:56 AM]

  • 06.02.2004 8:26 AM PDT

You can dodge Rockets easy.

  • 06.02.2004 8:27 AM PDT

Twelve Large ²

An army of sheep led by a lion would defeat an army of lions led by a sheep.

That would be cool. Would you vary the respawn times for all weapons? Or just the uber weapons and powerups?

Posted by: Ritz


The new trend in Tournaments is timers. Since the rocket launcher respawns every 30 seconds. The new game revolves around this waiting for the rockets, Make respawns random. make respawn times vary +/-15 seconds.



[Edited on 6/2/2004 9:18:11 AM]

  • 06.02.2004 8:48 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I'd vary for all weapons.

  • 06.02.2004 10:18 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

However I think that the powerups are counterable. Plasma weapons quickly eat overshield. A good TV makes invisibility easy to spot.

What counters rockets?

A good point, but often I don't have the luxury of a plasma rifle. In that matchup with ZT in particular, I was usually fighting for my life with the weapon I came into the map with with after eating a mouthful of frag as soon as I spawned. They are counterable, but they can also make spawnkilling unstoppable

  • 06.02.2004 10:27 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Thank you for addressing this, you beat me to the punch. This was one of the ideas I was going to post in my list of things but work doesn't leave me much time. Changing the respawn times on weapons and powerups would be a slight counter to the watch timers

In my opinion, I hate timers....they just lead to abuse. And it is not hard to use. Now if a person counts out in his head while fighting 3 opppents....I'll give props for that, but using a third party device outside of the game is kinda lame and shows that some people only have fun if they win.

I was thinking that the various times can be changed by a trigger which would vary the weapon or power up time if....
A. The item is picked up within the first ten seconds of the respawn.
B. perhaps a ratio based on the percentage of gun usage....To encourage all weapon use.
C. just always have random times

Just my 3 cents

  • 06.02.2004 10:41 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I haven't encountered with these problems yet, but after scrutinizing what you all said it sounds like something very sensible, which is to be changed. Especially with Xbox Live, Bungie should restrict/alternate the Multiplayer so that what you said will not occur. I have not played over the internet (neither XBC nor Halo PC), but I'm planning on buying Xbox Live when Halo 2 is released. I definitely don't want spawnkillers, exaggerated timers, excessive camping, power-upping, etc.
I want to witness the true glory of Halo 2's multiplayer, which means fun for everybody, not only for a concentrated group of people. I see several of you here share this notion.

  • 06.02.2004 11:01 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

SOunds good to me. By the way, bumping is ok if the topic is worthy. This topic is worthy.

  • 06.02.2004 11:04 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

There are a couple of things that Bungie really need to adress in online play.

1. The teamkilling dilemna, there has to be a way to stop this without being so strict legitimate team kills result in being kicked from the game.

2. Respawn Camping, this may be easier to solve with better level design.

3. Powerup camping - easy to remove if they remove powerups or make them optional.

I don't really understand that point about rockets, only on the smallest levels are they really good. Blood gulch and sidewinder they're pretty crap. Only usefull in specific circumstances and definately not the best weapon.

Edit: Theres also the problem of inactive players, the ones that join a game and then go off and watch tv or something. A real bummer for your team as the player doesn't contribute. There needs to be a good way of getting rid of them.

[Edited on 6/2/2004 11:42:29 AM]

  • 06.02.2004 11:40 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

i agree with you on both things, i hate those modders and those rocket whores, its so ugly that you can only winn with such a weak weapon, comeon get some experience!!!

  • 06.02.2004 12:17 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I'm sure bungie has been pondering about this already. Let's wait and see.

Nov 9th, 2004

159 days and counting.

  • 06.02.2004 12:20 PM PDT

  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • of 2