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Subject: New microsoft game usage agreement.
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Posted by: x Foman123 x
I'm sorry, but these rules are infuriating to me. For a couple of days, I have attempted to use all of the contract interpretation doctrines I learned in law school and since in order to read these new game usage rules in a way that is reasonable and not overly oppressive to the machinima and game video makers out there.

After reading through the Game Usage Rules for the umpteenth time, I must come to the conclusion that they are patently unfair, impractical, poorly drafted, and likely not the final product of an attorney, but rather a document created by some idiotic marketing person after they decided that gamers "couldn't read" the lawyers' version.

My non-advisory opinion is that this "Contract" is filled with so many contradictions that it is basically unenforceable. As a result, that means that we users have NO licensing rights -- not the "very broad rights" that the Game Usage Rules purport to provide us.

If you ask me, this puts Microsoft in a pretty huge dilemma. These Rules are meant to allow machinima under certain restrictions, but instead have been messed with and altered to the point where they are too confusing and contradictory to allow for any kind of suitable guidelines for machinima makers to follow. The default, of course is that you have no rights to redistribute game content, even if modified or altered. But Microsoft is certainly not going to begin enforcing that -- fanmade machinima is free advertising and good public relations.

The end conclusion of all of this is that I agree with mostly everybody else who has stated that as long as you're not making money, you're most likely going to be fine. But I just wanted to point out that these Game Usage Rules do not say that -- under their terms, the restrictions on machinima and fanfics are horrifyingly strict, if strangely and impossibly confusing. Not that I'm advising you to go out and feel free to make any machinima you want without fear of reprisal as long as it's distributed in a non-profitable manner (I am not), but my prediction is that you won't be receiving any letters or emails from Microsoft lawyers unless you attempt to make money from these things.


I more or less share the same thoughts. Microsoft is making a set of unenforceable rules that will only ruffle the feathers of prominent Xbox Live community members. As you stated above it is understandable that Microsoft asks that no one make money of their intellectual property, I don't think anyone will argue against that. However, the restrictions on machinima and fan fiction creators are absurd and, in my opinion, should be removed or drastically edited.

  • 08.17.2007 3:05 PM PDT
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Posted by: Recon Number 54
But if those same creators are using someone else's creations in order to personally benefit or profit (sales or donations... still is income), then they should understand and take steps to make sure that they have permission or a licensing agreement.


I don't get why the make the distinction between advertisements (which are allowed) and donations (which are not allowed)...I thought if you allow one then the other should be allowed.

  • 08.17.2007 3:09 PM PDT
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Posted by: WhiteRaven119
Microsoft has to realize that those terms are simply going to be ignored. Machinima and montages will be as prevalent as they always have been.


I agree. There are probably hundreds of thousands of people with capture cards at this very moment ignoring most of the rules ( I admit that at least a couple of rules make sense) and making montages and machinimas at this very moment. I really think they should perform a retooling for their rules or risk ignorance of all the rules.

  • 08.18.2007 11:55 AM PDT
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Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: DrinkingRobot3
Boo! Why Microsoft? Why are they acting like such COMMIES??

I do not think that means what you think that it means.

They are acting as a capitalist corporation. Which is a polar opposite to your statement.

I was about to say the exact same thing.

  • 08.18.2007 3:40 PM PDT
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Posted by: SS_Zag1
Read a bit more carefully.
You can’t use the soundtracks or audio effects from the original game. We often license those from third parties and don’t have the rights to pass them on to you.
Apparently you also can't put Halo music to a montage. Bummer. :P


Omfg. Guess what. I give microsoft 14.95 a friggin CD for the halo music and what do i get? Sorry you can not use this is your friggin film. Wtf. Do they want us to not get halo 3,xbox? I guess not.
Well we'll see about that. Am i on the phone right now with gamestop asking how much i get if i sell my xbox 360 to them?

Edit: On my clan website ive been supporting microsoft on it. Right now its down because i am adding stuff to it. I might aswell take that support off aswell. Geeze.. Microsoft. I dont believe you.

[Edited on 08.18.2007 3:49 PM PDT]

  • 08.18.2007 3:47 PM PDT

Posted by: x Foman123 x
The end conclusion of all of this is that I agree with mostly everybody else who has stated that as long as you're not making money, you're most likely going to be fine. But I just wanted to point out that these Game Usage Rules do not say that -- under their terms, the restrictions on machinima and fanfics are horrifyingly strict, if strangely and impossibly confusing. Not that I'm advising you to go out and feel free to make any machinima you want without fear of reprisal as long as it's distributed in a non-profitable manner (I am not), but my prediction is that you won't be receiving any letters or emails from Microsoft lawyers unless you attempt to make money from these things.


I don't think that it's all that repressive. The only part that really made me scratch my head was the mention of not making machinema that are perverse, as that's more than a little vague. As for the rest of it, it feels like you don't make money off of it, and you give credit where it's due. I'm sure people are still aloud to make fanfiction (*shiver*), but they just can't pretend that their fanfiction is a CGI movie made to continue the Halo storyline.

Again, to Red v Blue, they obviously have legal agreements with Microsoft, even though they make money and their "fanfiction" is a pseudo-continuation of the storyline. (It is, watch the original trailer).

Edit: As far a music is concerned, isn't Halo music Microsoft's property? (With the exception of Breaking Benjamin/Hoobastank/Incubus/Never Surrender, which barely qualify as "Halo music") If not Microsoft, then doesn't it belong to Marty? Those both sound like they're usable under the rules. It sounded to me like they meant Forza's soundtrack, which is licensed.

[Edited on 08.18.2007 5:53 PM PDT]

  • 08.18.2007 5:50 PM PDT
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i can aactually completely agree with most of those
except the "adding on to the game universe" BS
come on
ARE YOU FOR -blam!- SERIOUS?!?!

  • 08.18.2007 6:39 PM PDT

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Posted by: funnymonkey
Omfg. Guess what. I give microsoft 14.95 a friggin CD for the halo music and what do i get? Sorry you can not use this is your friggin film. Wtf. Do they want us to not get halo 3,xbox? I guess not.
Well we'll see about that. Am i on the phone right now with gamestop asking how much i get if i sell my xbox 360 to them?


Well, considering the purpose of a soundtrack is to be listened to, not put in Montages, then technically you're logic is a bit flawed. Of course, I think all that RIAA crap is.. uh, well, crap, so I can't complain.

I wouldn't go so far as to say you would probably be fine if you wanted to make montages, but you'd probably be just fine if you want to make montages.

  • 08.18.2007 7:03 PM PDT

Phoenix is dead, long live Phoenix!
Is it?

Personally, I am not sure that many will read that statement, and even fewer will change their ways. I think all that will come of this is some peaved fans and a few letters to people who are making money of Microsoft's games.

As to the adding on to the universe part... Well isn't that what is so great about the Halo franchise, that so much is left unsaid for fans to make of what they will? Some of the best fanfictions around add to these types of universes, they add a greater depth and a unique understanding to them. It's demmed odd that Microsoft would forbid that, and enforcing it would mean getting in touch with every fanfiction author out there and there are quite a few of those.

[Edited on 08.18.2007 8:29 PM PDT]

  • 08.18.2007 8:25 PM PDT

A lot of people cite that Rooster Teeth gets away with a lot because they have some sort of agreement/contract with Microsoft, but I really wonder how much other machinima could fall into a "parody" legal category. There is a lot of gray area there.

Taken from Cornell's law page on Fair Use

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include—
(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

Reading more into the Offical Rules, I find this:

You can’t sell or otherwise earn anything from your Items. We will let you have advertising on the page with the Item on it, but that’s it. That means you can’t sell it, post it on a site that requires subscription or other fees, solicit donations of any kind (even by PayPal), use it to enter a contest or sweepstakes, or post it on a page you use to sell other items (even if those other items have nothing to do with Game Content or Microsoft).

I was an avid member of haloader.com for a while and they accept donations specifically by PayPal to keep the site going. It may not contain actual footage of games but it does include vastly detailed info about all your games(aspects of their IP, IMO). They link to every game on bungie.net to show the game viewer. They accept donations to keep the site up, not to make money. Does this mean that they will be unable to continue once Halo 3 comes out, or even at this moment?

I understand that Microsoft must protect their intellectual property interests, but I seriously wonder how much they appreciate their gaming community sometimes and all it has done for them free of charge. I'm strictly talking Microsoft and their legal department, not Bungie-the creator of games.

  • 08.18.2007 8:47 PM PDT
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microsoft is ruining machinima...

and whats gonna happen to montages??

[Edited on 08.18.2007 9:48 PM PDT]

  • 08.18.2007 9:46 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: Great_Pretender
It's basically the same arrangement as before (as far as I can tell in two minutes), now they've just put it in writing.

Don't make money off of machinimas. That simple.
-TGP-

More than half of it is even when your not making money, of course you probably will just get lost in the flood of other's who are breaking these rules unless you are making money.

  • 08.18.2007 11:00 PM PDT
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Within each steel-bound coffin of a cell, / Buried alive;
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Who see the world’s great anguish and its wrong / And dare not speak.

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I don't see what people are getting all upset about. They FINALLY put into writing that we have the right to make machinima as long as we don't make money from it. Granted, that was what we had been doing already, but hopefully this is just the first step towards Microsoft lying down some rules for what we are allowed to do with their games.

Ans the only catch they throw on is that we have to put "[The title of your Item] was created under Microsoft’s “Game Content Usage Rules” using assets from GAMENAME, © Microsoft Corporation" near the video. Most vids are put on youtube anyways, just put that in the description. Seriously, it's like two sentences; I'm sure you can find SOMEWHERE to post it.

I think this is awesome, to be honest. I really hope that they lay out some more rules soon. I hate the fact that we're supposed to just hope what we're doing is fine.

  • 08.18.2007 11:07 PM PDT
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Classic microsoft, how typical. I can sympathize for them wanting the public know that it was made by Microsoft. However, they don't need to watch over it like an angry hen who has lost an egg. There are so many videos of Halo that they won't have time to constantly check every single person who has made a montage, video or something to do with Halo. Personally, I think they are over reacting, and I trust no one here is stupid enough to try to infringe copyright laws by making money. The worst we could possibly do is to put up a paypal link on a website that we created asking for donations to keep the site running. But what i did before hand on whatever halo video I created was "made from the game of Halo 1/2 Bungie are original creators" and I have had people ask "where did you get the game??" and a day later, they have purchased a copy of Halo 2.

So, I am actually advertising halo 2 without getting money.... YOU HEAR THAT BUNGIE?? YOU OWE ME $$$$$

but the point stands, micrsoft wants people to know they own and made the game, but they do it as if they were an angry chicken.

  • 08.18.2007 11:22 PM PDT
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you also cant use any sound effects or sound tracks from the game, which if your machinima clan has an editor who doesn't know how to dub out sounds and add new ones your clans gonna die, =\


  • 08.19.2007 10:42 AM PDT
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Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: Bungie is Boss
Edit: As far a music is concerned, isn't Halo music Microsoft's property? (With the exception of Breaking Benjamin/Hoobastank/Incubus/Never Surrender, which barely qualify as "Halo music") If not Microsoft, then doesn't it belong to Marty? Those both sound like they're usable under the rules. It sounded to me like they meant Forza's soundtrack, which is licensed.

It does not matter whether the Halo music is Microsoft property or not. You must read the Rules carefully: You can’t use the soundtracks or audio effects from the original game. We often license those from third parties and don’t have the rights to pass them on to you.
This does not say that you cannot use soundtracks or audio effects unless they are Microsoft's property. It gives a blanket rule and then explains why that blanket rule is in place. There are no exceptions.

I really can't see how you think that, if these rules were to be followed perfectly, that they would not be overly repressive. I respectfully disagree, although in the long run, I do not predict that these rules will hurt the Machinima/Game Video/Fanfiction community. The community will largely ignore them, and Microsoft has bigger fish to fry than some guy who decided to put Halo music to his montage of himself playing Halo 3 with his buddies.

[Edited on 08.19.2007 12:59 PM PDT]

  • 08.19.2007 12:57 PM PDT
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Hi. My name is Andrew. I'm Asian. Still trying to figure out who I am. Yup. That's it.

So, are fanfics illegal now? Or do you have to post that "this was made by microsuck"? I bet m1crosoft will not allow people to use their name.

[Edited on 08.19.2007 1:12 PM PDT]

  • 08.19.2007 1:09 PM PDT

Posted by: x Foman123 x
I really can't see how you think that, if these rules were to be followed perfectly, that they would not be overly repressive. I respectfully disagree, although in the long run, I do not predict that these rules will hurt the Machinima/Game Video/Fanfiction community. The community will largely ignore them, and Microsoft has bigger fish to fry than some guy who decided to put Halo music to his montage of himself playing Halo 3 with his buddies.
I think I'm looking at the spirit of the law and you're reading the letter of it. A time-honored debate, to say the least.
It'll come down to Microsoft to decide if they're going to chase some player making a video of him getting a ton of headshots, or if they're going to limit themselves to cracking down on the RvB-types (except without Microsoft's legal consent). I hope the latter, but they've certainly covered their asses.

Posted by: Spartan249
So, are fanfics illegal now? Or do you have to post that "this was made by microsuck"? I bet m1crosoft will not allow people to use their name.
From what I read, it looks like you can't make fanfiction machinema. Pretty much you can't make a video and say "OMG this is wat happenz after teh Halo 3s!!"
And you just have to say that you used Microsoft's assets in creating your works.

[Edited on 08.19.2007 1:45 PM PDT]

  • 08.19.2007 1:40 PM PDT
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Within each steel-bound coffin of a cell, / Buried alive;
But rather mourne the apathetic throng / The cowed, and the meek -
Who see the world’s great anguish and its wrong / And dare not speak.

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The music question is entirely different, I would say. Most montages are made with music other than the actual game soundtracks, and no one has the legal right to do that anyways. Yeah... the music clause is going to be completely ignored.

  • 08.19.2007 5:12 PM PDT
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I honestly don't see how Microsoft is 'ruining' anything here. they're not saying you can't make machinima or montages, just that they don't want you to make money off of something they own. sounds reasonable to me. and if you do make something, you just have to put a little legal disclaimer somewhere in the credits. big deal. every film you've ever watched, whether it was big budget or indie, has had to go the same crap. with the prevelance of montages and machinima, this actually makes sense

  • 08.19.2007 9:14 PM PDT

Microsoft do things this way.

1) Notice people are doing something unexpected or cool
2) Stamp down on it with new regulations
3) Implement their own method/infrastructure for doing the same thing and charge people for the privilege.

Step 3 pending.

  • 08.20.2007 5:49 AM PDT

etc etc/glaringly obvious/and so on, and such <=Not redundant!
Posted by: Cr4ne Style
Taxes do nothing to affect the share of wealth, since taxes are only applied to income.

So that's not even a part of the conversation at all, so it's pointless talking about it....

"for a "best" moral to exist, there must exist the "best" moral base. If the base of morality varies from location to location, culture to culture...then there can't be an absolute moral..

Posted by: Achilles1108
Posted by: BlueBaron123
I've made videos in Dead Rising, Blazing Angels, etc. and have gotten a few messages of people saying, "I want this game now!" And again, I don't think some of these game companies really care all that much.

I think that it mostly is there to stop people from trying to make money from it. Joe Q Montage who is doing it for fun should be fine.


i do not understand the problem here. video games are the intellectual property of game makers, so they do not want people to use their products to make money without their consent. they have control of their games and images from them, so why is this move a surprise to anyone?

if you want to make montages and movies, go right ahead and use their game to do so. but, it seems that microsoft will only jump in if you attempt to make a profit on their creation.

  • 08.20.2007 7:36 AM PDT
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Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: sesquipadelian
Posted by: Achilles1108
Posted by: BlueBaron123
I've made videos in Dead Rising, Blazing Angels, etc. and have gotten a few messages of people saying, "I want this game now!" And again, I don't think some of these game companies really care all that much.

I think that it mostly is there to stop people from trying to make money from it. Joe Q Montage who is doing it for fun should be fine.


i do not understand the problem here. video games are the intellectual property of game makers, so they do not want people to use their products to make money without their consent. they have control of their games and images from them, so why is this move a surprise to anyone?

if you want to make montages and movies, go right ahead and use their game to do so. but, it seems that microsoft will only jump in if you attempt to make a profit on their creation.
I think that people are mostly upset that Microsoft has promulgated a blanket rule against using music / sound effects and against creating pretty much any fanfiction.

Despite what a lot of people may hope that these rules say thanks to the broad language at the beginning, and despite the "spirit" of the license, there are no exceptions to these prohibitions -- even if you're "not making money."

Like I said before, though, it wouldn't really be worth it for Microsoft to pay its lawyers $600/hr to chase down some guy who made a montage of himself getting a few plasma sticks, set it to Halo music, and posted it on his MySpace.

I continue to agree with everybody else who has said that they think that in general, as long as you don't try to make money, you'll be okay.

  • 08.20.2007 7:57 AM PDT

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