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Subject: Bungie.net and adult gamers.

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: BAR666
I'd never heard of NeoGaf, but I just perused their boards, and it looks like exactly what you're pining for. In fact, I'm joining over there now. They don't let you register with a free email address or have more than one account, which in itself probably deters a huge amount of undesirables.


They are very restrictive. I mean, anyone can register with a non-free email address, but members there are particularly protective of the reputation they have. They also require 150 posts before members are even able to make new threads. This forces the members to learn how to act, before they are able to.

That said, the benifits of their ideology are immediate. Images are allowed in posts, custom avatars, and more, all because members there are responsible enough to use them appropriately.

To be honest, I'm almost positive I will be receiving some very stern letters for mentioning their name here. They often think very lowly of Bungie.net, most of the time with good reason.

EDIT: While the concept of Neogaf I enjoy, the site lacks much of the Halo-dedicated discussion that I find hard to come by. Sacrifices can always be made, though.

[Edited on 08.22.2007 6:36 AM PDT]

  • 08.21.2007 10:19 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
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Pointless discussion is pointless. Start an invitation-only group.

  • 08.22.2007 5:22 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: dalmedya
Pointless discussion is pointless. Start an invitation-only group.


Two things against that:
1.) I am not interested in making a restrictive group. I would prefer to have everyone take part in discussion in such a cleaner environment, but too many people aren't willing to give up what they do currently.
2.) The same rebuttle can be made against the forums' current state. For exapmle:

Why would this belong in Halo 3? Certainly a group dedicated to future-gamemakers, and subsequently advertised in The Classifieds, would be better suited?

Also, the massive amounts of Fan Fiction that exist spread out through Bungie.net. While I don't read them personally, many of the are really good. I'd go as far as saying that a dedicated forum for these stories would do them (and this site) nicely.

What I'm saying here is that what you say is not fair. Please do not discriminate against my ideas and posts simply because you aren't willing to do so against the other masses.

  • 08.22.2007 6:30 AM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

There are no irrelevant quotes of historical figures here. Neither will you find any links, chain posts, memes, clan advertisements, self-promotions, or the tiniest of ASCII pictures.

So go away.

Eh...just strolled into the Halo 3 forum this fine morning, and it's positively depressing. I've decided that I'm in favor of very strict, oppressive even, rules and enforcement when it comes to that hole. There should be guillotine executions.

  • 08.22.2007 7:21 AM PDT

Strange evolution how people have come to believe
That we are it's greatest achievement
We're barely, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves

Take a look around. For better or worse, Bungie.net is what it is. If the current state of Bungie isn't something that appeals to you (other than the Halo related content), and I don't mean to sound harsh, but perhaps it isn't suited for you.

If the structure at NEOgaf is more to your liking, then perhaps you can persuade them to take on more Halo related content.


Personally, Im happy with the status quo. It may be far from perfect, but its home.

  • 08.22.2007 8:07 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: twinkiemaker
Take a look around. For better or worse, Bungie.net is what it is. If the current state of Bungie isn't something that appeals to you (other than the Halo related content), and I don't mean to sound harsh, but perhaps it isn't suited for you.

If the structure at NEOgaf is more to your liking, then perhaps you can persuade them to take on more Halo related content.


Personally, Im happy with the status quo. It may be far from perfect, but its home.


Let me get this right:

You're alright with me attempting to change one of only two boards at Neogaf, but you get edgy when I bring up the idea of changing one of the dozen boards here, or possibly adding one.

Something just doesn't quite add up there.

  • 08.22.2007 8:24 AM PDT

Strange evolution how people have come to believe
That we are it's greatest achievement
We're barely, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves

Not edgy, I just dont think its necessary.

And to be perfectly honest, even if your idea was implemented, it would get the same amount of traffic as The Voting Booth or The Gallery.

Everyone who has come here has had to compartmentalize their thinking to fit into Bungies forum schema. Its ok, drink the kool-aid and things will go much easier for you.

  • 08.22.2007 8:53 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: twinkiemaker
Its ok, drink the kool-aid and things will go much easier for you.


I'd rather not, to be honest. No one got anywhere by being just like everyone else. If I were to conform, why would any one notice me apart from the hundred-odd other members who I would act just like.

I'm notoriously stuborm against "going with the flow", and for good reasons, most of the time. I don't think it's too much to ask to have an environment that's publicly available and easy to see/find, but, quite unlike many of its counterparts, actually gets stuff done.

  • 08.22.2007 9:01 AM PDT

Strange evolution how people have come to believe
That we are it's greatest achievement
We're barely, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves

Posted by: prometheus25
I don't think it's too much to ask to have an environment that's publicly available and easy to see/find, but, quite unlike many of its counterparts, actually gets stuff done.

You're letting optimism cloud your judgement.

  • 08.22.2007 9:23 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

It seems you're letting pessimissm/Halo 3 forum/laziness cloud your own.

Since when did working to try to make things better and standing up for what you believe in become something of a joke. Oh right, May 9th, 2006.

  • 08.22.2007 9:37 AM PDT

Strange evolution how people have come to believe
That we are it's greatest achievement
We're barely, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves

Posted by: prometheus25
It seems you're letting pessimissm/Halo 3 forum/laziness cloud your own.

Apathy is more appropriate than laziness. I dont go to the Halo 3 forum unless there's an active thread about Lions in Halo 3 or Halo 3 for the DS. Pessimism has nothing to do with it.

Since when did working to try to make things better and standing up for what you believe in become something of a joke. Oh right, May 9th, 2006.
Better for who? All I see is someone walking into a room that has already established norms and saying that the way theyve been doing things for years is wrong and how we should all re-think the way we have done things so that they are more suitable to your likes and dislikes.

I have no problem with people trying to bring new things to the community, but it seems as though most of the people offering these ideas are somehow deluded into thinking that their ideas will be accepted without discussion of criticism.

The problem I see with your idea is that it is unattainable. Doesnt mean its not a good idea, its just not practical. You want to further sub-divide a Community that doesnt use the sub-divisions it already has available to it. Even if you use your idea of re-naming an existing forum, it still won't change that fact that what you invisioned and what is reality will be two very different things. Dont forget the multiple millions of people that will start flooding here come Halo 3s release.

I would file this under "Good In Theory."
Oh right, May 9th, 2006.
I'm missing the reference. How is this date significant?

[Edited on 08.22.2007 10:21 AM PDT]

  • 08.22.2007 10:18 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

No one is waltzing in here and telling anyone to change anything. You can keep your precious Halo 3 forum, but I find it much too offensive and off-topic to be considered an effective tool.

If you've been reading this thread careful enough, you'll understand that I propose no removal or change of anything, but an expandature of what's already here.

  • 08.22.2007 10:33 AM PDT

Strange evolution how people have come to believe
That we are it's greatest achievement
We're barely, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves

Posted by: prometheus25
No one is waltzing in here and telling anyone to change anything. You can keep your precious Halo 3 forum, but I find it much too offensive and off-topic to be considered an effective tool.

Do me a favor before you make yourself look like more of an ass. Click the little "More posts by this user link by my name and tell me how many times I've posted in the Halo 3 forum in the last year. If you find the Halo 3 forum offensive, I would suggest staying away from the internet in general.

If you've been reading this thread careful enough, you'll understand that I propose no removal or change of anything, but an expandature of what's already here.
Which was pretty much covered when I wrote "You want to further sub-divide a Community that doesnt use the sub-divisions it already has available to it." in my previous reply.

If you can t take criticism for an idea, then why even bother posting it? I even went so far to say that in theory, it was a good idea, but that obviously wasn't enough. However well thought out your idea was previously, you've resorted to re-stating the same things over and over. The only thing you're accomplishing now is throwing a temper tantrum because someone disagrees with you.

  • 08.22.2007 10:51 AM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

All I have to say to this prometheus, is that it is impossible on b.net. Im always open to the possibility that this forum can grow up, but growing up seems to avoid most members. You really only find question threads here without some sort of flame or spam, everything else is flooded by ongoing jokes, rick rolls, meme's, and anything else you can think of.

The real question is why? I have seen hundreds of other forums, and it seems that out of the large population forums, B.net is one of the worst with this kind of stuff. No matter where you go there is spam of some sort. You would think The Flood and the use of groups would help stay that kind of thing, but they don't (not that they don't buffer it a bit).

In the end, your only hope would probably be a group with membership needed to be given. You can have them either form a rebuttal to an argument you place, or quiz them on their halo knowledge, etc. I would join that group, since I, like you prometheus, love to debate and discuss seriously.

[Edited on 08.22.2007 11:07 AM PDT]

  • 08.22.2007 11:05 AM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: twinkiemaker
Posted by: prometheus25
No one is waltzing in here and telling anyone to change anything. You can keep your precious Halo 3 forum, but I find it much too offensive and off-topic to be considered an effective tool.

Do me a favor before you make yourself look like more of an ass. Click the little "More posts by this user link by my name and tell me how many times I've posted in the Halo 3 forum in the last year. If you find the Halo 3 forum offensive, I would suggest staying away from the internet in general.

If you've been reading this thread careful enough, you'll understand that I propose no removal or change of anything, but an expandature of what's already here.
Which was pretty much covered when I wrote "You want to further sub-divide a Community that doesnt use the sub-divisions it already has available to it." in my previous reply.

If you can t take criticism for an idea, then why even bother posting it? I even went so far to say that in theory, it was a good idea, but that obviously wasn't enough. However well thought out your idea was previously, you've resorted to re-stating the same things over and over. The only thing you're accomplishing now is throwing a temper tantrum because someone disagrees with you.

It looked to me like he took the criticism just fine and formed a small rebuttal. Not a very well based one, but still. At the Halo2sucks.com forums, we use some rewards to keep members in line, What we use is something that is given to respected members by vote for doing good deeds, and helping expand and further the forum. Members want stuff like that, recognition for helping out the forum they so love. This motivates members to do good deeds, and stay out of situations that could kill their chances at getting what they want. The only privilege you get from it is a forum for those members to discuss at privately, away from the rest of the members.

While divisions can be bad, as long as they are acknowledged by the community that it is OK, then there is no need to worry. Being afraid of giving one member privileges over another is no way to go about things, because a forum community is NOT a democracy nor is it a communist community. You can't have a forum where everyone is equal, especially in a gaming forum. In the end, those people strive for competition and will usually find ways to separate themselves from the rest. But if you give them something to look forward to that will do just that, then they should be good little members.

  • 08.22.2007 11:14 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: twinkiemaker
Do me a favor before you make yourself look like more of an ass. Click the little "More posts by this user link by my name and tell me how many times I've posted in the Halo 3 forum in the last year. If you find the Halo 3 forum offensive, I would suggest staying away from the internet in general.

If you've been reading this thread careful enough, you'll understand that I propose no removal or change of anything, but an expandature of what's already here.
Which was pretty much covered when I wrote "You want to further sub-divide a Community that doesnt use the sub-divisions it already has available to it." in my previous reply.

If you can t take criticism for an idea, then why even bother posting it? I even went so far to say that in theory, it was a good idea, but that obviously wasn't enough. However well thought out your idea was previously, you've resorted to re-stating the same things over and over. The only thing you're accomplishing now is throwing a temper tantrum because someone disagrees with you.


Apparently you're missing the intention and emotion of my comments. I haven't been trying to convey spite, anger, or irritation with my comments, though I can think of several reasons why they may have been mistaken as such, but they are, ultimately, irrelevent and purposeless to this arguement. Please do not mistake my intentions, they aren't here to cause strife or to make anyone's life here more difficult.

If you'd like, we can discuss this topic more. If not, then inactivity will be your best weapon against it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Perhaps you are right, Ultimate. I may indeed be thinking too far ahead of what this forum is currently capable of. Perhaps at a much later date would this discussion be of more value.

  • 08.22.2007 11:22 AM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

It isn't too soon, just no one is open to discussion. After years of trying, these people have given up the fight and are now on the side of the moderators and admins. Im not saying its futile to discuss though, since it is always better to be self enlightened about these things.

  • 08.22.2007 11:29 AM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

Visit us and check out our games at Sandswept.net!

~~Pardon Our Dust.~~

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
It isn't too soon, just no one is open to discussion. After years of trying, these people have given up the fight and are now on the side of the moderators and admins. Im not saying its futile to discuss though, since it is always better to be self enlightened about these things.

Are you saying no one here has their own opinions and we just follow what the mods and admins do? There's plenty of things I disagree with that some of the moderators believe, think, do, or say, as well as the occasional admin. It's not like we don't have really great discussions here. I find a good handful of them to be fascinating.

You seem to be talking about behavior, not discussion.

I'm still waiting for someone to truly give me an example of "Mature Discussion", though. Oh, and how it could actually benefit the site. :P

[Edited on 08.22.2007 11:49 AM PDT]

  • 08.22.2007 11:41 AM PDT

Strange evolution how people have come to believe
That we are it's greatest achievement
We're barely, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves

Posted by: prometheus25
I haven't been trying to convey spite, anger, or irritation with my comments, though I can think of several reasons why they may have been mistaken as such....

My apologies, I did mis-read the emotions you were trying to convey.

Perhaps you are right, Ultimate. I may indeed be thinking too far ahead of what this forum is currently capable of. Perhaps at a much later date would this discussion be of more value.
That is more in line with what I was trying to say. This site has a massive turnaround. For every current member that matures to a point where the discussion you would like could happen, there are 5+ immature, rude, obnoxious, etc people that join.

When it comes to these discussions, I have always considered it to be more of a societal problem than a problem with anything Bungie is or isn't doing. Couple that with the anonymity of the internet, and... well....... you have the basis for your thread.

  • 08.22.2007 11:59 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: twinkiemaker
Posted by: prometheus25
I haven't been trying to convey spite, anger, or irritation with my comments, though I can think of several reasons why they may have been mistaken as such....

My apologies, I did mis-read the emotions you were trying to convey.

Perhaps you are right, Ultimate. I may indeed be thinking too far ahead of what this forum is currently capable of. Perhaps at a much later date would this discussion be of more value.
That is more in line with what I was trying to say. This site has a massive turnaround. For every current member that matures to a point where the discussion you would like could happen, there are 5+ immature, rude, obnoxious, etc people that join.


When it comes to these discussions, I have always considered it to be more of a societal problem than a problem with anything Bungie is or isn't doing. Couple that with the anonymity of the internet, and... well....... you have the basis for your thread.
Which brings me to one of my original points: There's nothing wrong with the way people are foruming, but what I request is more attention to the different varieties that exist (often surpressed) within the existing ones.


[Edited on 08.22.2007 12:15 PM PDT]

  • 08.22.2007 12:04 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: SS_Zag1
Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
It isn't too soon, just no one is open to discussion. After years of trying, these people have given up the fight and are now on the side of the moderators and admins. Im not saying its futile to discuss though, since it is always better to be self enlightened about these things.

Are you saying no one here has their own opinions and we just follow what the mods and admins do? There's plenty of things I disagree with that some of the moderators believe, think, do, or say, as well as the occasional admin. It's not like we don't have really great discussions here. I find a good handful of them to be fascinating.

You seem to be talking about behavior, not discussion.

I'm still waiting for someone to truly give me an example of "Mature Discussion", though. Oh, and how it could actually benefit the site. :P

Ack, should have use the /sarcasm thing. Sorry for that, I wasn't serious about that. I know many of you have your own opinions, but whenever something comes up the first 5 things are usually "If it aint broke dont fix it" comments.

  • 08.22.2007 12:28 PM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

Visit us and check out our games at Sandswept.net!

~~Pardon Our Dust.~~

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Ack, should have use the /sarcasm thing. Sorry for that, I wasn't serious about that. I know many of you have your own opinions, but whenever something comes up the first 5 things are usually "If it aint broke dont fix it" comments.

That's basically what I interpreted you as saying. ;)

I'm still curious what "Mature Discussion and Activities" would be for Bungie.net. Seriously.

If it's the ability to talk about and link to -blam!- content, pfft. Go somewhere else. If it's religious discussion, pfft. Go somewhere else. It's not like anyone is converting to atheism or vice versa based off some silly argument that goes in circles. What other discussion is "mature"? Politics? Isn't that the one where everyone starts throwing insults, clever, vulgar, or otherwise, back and forth at each other?

This is a gaming site, for mature-rated games. It's even in the lower right of the page, if you're still wondering.

Nothing is broken in this regard. Therefore, nothing can be fixed. ;)

  • 08.22.2007 12:54 PM PDT

"I pledge to punch all switches, to never shoot where I could use grenades, to admit the existence of no level except Total Carnage, to never use caps lock as my "run" key, and to never, ever, leave a single BoB alive."

2B || !2B - Why don't you look Inside the Machine?

If it ain't broken, fix it.

I'm agreeing with Zag here. What does "Adult Content" mean? I think that a group would suit that purpose perfectly. Everything else falls under Family Values in my opinion.

  • 08.22.2007 1:01 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Mythic Member
  • gamertag: Mabian
  • user homepage:

"Whatever exists, whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent. These anonymous creatures may seem little or nothing in the world. Yet the smallest crumb can devour us. Any smallest thing beneath yon rock out of men's knowing. Only nature can enslave man and only when the existence of each last entity is routed out and made to stand naked before him will he be properly suzerain of the earth."

Posted by: SS_Zag1
I'm still curious what "Mature Discussion and Activities" would be for Bungie.net. Seriously.


Accounting for all of the flames and spammers, I'd settle for "a net amount of worthwhile posts in a single thread." I set low standards, and I get them. So I'm complacent with the state of the forums I visit...sorta.

Also, the fact that I'm discussing philosophy helps...

  • 08.22.2007 1:05 PM PDT

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