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This topic has moved here: Subject: harrassment by forum ninjas?
  • Subject: harrassment by forum ninjas?
Subject: harrassment by forum ninjas?
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i have recently been attacked by a forum ninja, who feels it necessary to protect his racist clan friends, i sent an email to both the webmasters at bungie and xbox.com, and sent it also to a few gaming magazines.... here is a copy of the email, tell me if i was wrong.

My name is Eric Buttner, I am a disabled vet, who finds most of my recent time completely absorbed by Halo 2. My gamertag is Saintwrath. Recently I found myself playing against someone with the name Ih8KneeGrows. Not only was the name offensive but the person with it was offensive as well. So much so the I and many others on my team all sent feedback. I was flabbergasted that someone could actually use a nic like that, and so I went on the forum and posted the following query

I am curious as to why i can see certain individuals with nics like "ih8kneegrows" still playing halo 2 on live. I and many others sent feedback regarding this individual, but these racsist morons still abound like cockroaches. ive seen people with names like whitepower, and teabagger and not only is it offensive to me, but what about those 13 yr olds, whose parents trust a good company like bungie, let thier kids play the game, and then overhear or see these cerebrally inept holistic twits? Does the feedback actually work, and if so how long does it take for the offenders to be policed? Also what is the penalty incurred by these infractions against the policy they clicked yes to? Thank you for your reply.....

the post was answered and people on it were disagreeable or agreeable, it didint matter, all i was looking for was an answer, and i recieved it. Then the last post was by a "forum ninja" named yoozel that went like this....

It is not a racial name, the player simply hates when knees grow. However you perceive it is your opinion. You are assuming that the way the name sounds is racist, but it may not be, would that make you the racist person for thinking it?

not so bad, but then he closed off my thread, also not to bad, my questions answered i was satisfied.

then another thread starts up, of course by the guy whose name and attitude offended me, whereby he was trying to explain his actions, i wouldnt have known had he not contacted me to inform me of the thread, so i could respond "to his face"

i perused it and didnt really feel the need to pursue matters any further till i noticed the forementioned "yoozel the forum ninja" on that thread as well. here was the last bit and the reason im contacting you.

Don't jump on the forums and start trying to call my clan members racists... you could have some bad karma come your way...

since then i havent been able to view my stats what can be done about this?

Thankfully Yours,
Eric Buttner, a.k.a SaintWrath

here are the thread addies for the complete story
http://bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=1194649&viewre plies=true

http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=1200449

wonder how long it will take for this thread to be closed and for me to receive another threat.

  • 11.29.2004 12:55 AM PDT
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contact a lawyer. Lawsuits tend to change the way people react and behave themselves. If it can be perceived by anyone as racist then it must be treated as racist. I tend to run into the same moronic neanderthals. My experienxe on xbl has not been a good one, I will probably quit playing if I dont have some sort of option to block these fools from getting matched with me. Its not just the racist bastards, its all of the ignorant pricks that seem only to be happy when they are making others miserable.

Lord forbid that we have an opinion. Blacklist me for having an original thought.

Also a VET. Hoorah

[Edited on 11/29/2004 1:33:50 AM]

  • 11.29.2004 1:29 AM PDT
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Your post was made in the wrong forum. That's why it was closed. Topics about halo 2 multiplayer and xbox live should be made in the zanzibar forum. Although, I didn't lock the topic. I think of the underground now as a bungie general forum. Anything bungie related can be posted here. Anyway, in the future it's a good idea you post your topics in the correct forum...

  • 11.29.2004 1:31 AM PDT
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zanzibar it will be, but this particular issue IS a bungie related incident since i was refering to the threat made by yoozel...

I understand that i posted in the wrong area, and for that i make due apologies, but that still doesnt give a forum ninja the right to threaten a poster. Yoozel, seems to think that he is being subtle, but both his posts that refered to me are poorly veiled at best. I also understand clan loyalty, but thier will be times when you cant condone the actions of even your team.

what does it take to become a forum ninja anyway?

  • 11.29.2004 11:11 AM PDT
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Yoozel made a comment that was very obviously in jest to a thread that was breaking the rules. So how does this justify that you're accusing him of harassment, and more importantly, of threatening your or your clan members? I didn't see either of these things happen, and it seems to me that you're overreacting to a large degree.

  • 11.29.2004 11:22 AM PDT
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"you could have some bad karma, come your way" <~~~ is a jest? no offense intended Tanikaze, but only a fool would think it was merely a jest after all the other posts. Since this started I havent been able to see my profile, and as far as I know whenever anyone else checks for me it says "Never played". This is only, at best, a nuisance admittedly, however I really dont think his actions as a whole are remotely nuetral. Forum ninjas are suppose to be moderaters which means they have to maintain a position of nonpartiality, regardless of whether they play halo 2 and belong to some clan with some 17yr old punk that thinks its funny to use an extremely derogatory nic.

as far as overreacting... please put yourself in my shoes, and tell me that you wouldnt even get slightly pissed, if you can then cover yourself in gasoline and set yourself on fire while you meditate, cause youd be the most serene zen bastard this side of tibet.

  • 11.29.2004 11:40 AM PDT

yoo•zel- ('yoo-zhul): slang: vb.

Officium quod Fidelitas.

Hm… someone seems to have disregarded the apology I included in my reply back to him in the PM system.

  • 11.29.2004 1:49 PM PDT
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i got the apology after the thread posted and here was my reply through the pm system.... and yes yoozel, this does end now, i will make no more note of what happened in this forum or any other.... so if any forum ninja wants to close this thread please do so.

i thank you for the apology, and accept it gracefully, this last forum line began before you sent this, had i recieved the apology first i definately would not have started the new thread... so this antagonism ends here. I must admit that Im thoroughly suprised you apologized in the first place, but I now have gained some respect for you. thank you.

  • 11.29.2004 2:34 PM PDT
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actually by clicking your link i was able to see my stats and I thank you, but then i tried to check games and it went to a page that said: "we have no information regarding this player" i tried closing and reoping as you instructed, with no effect. perhaps it is my computer....
if that is the case then i owe an apology to yoozel, for insinuating that he did this, i dont really know what powers a forum ninja has regarding user pages, but through my ignorance i assumed it was him. I apologize.

[Edited on 11/29/2004 2:46:53 PM]

  • 11.29.2004 2:45 PM PDT
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Saint Wrath,
First i would like to applaud the name, it rox.
But lets get serious i totally feel for you i find more and more people being rascist on XBOX LIVE and other online games. If bungie does care about us users (they give us real cool free stuff on their website) i think they would take some of the HUGE amount of money they make to hire someone to control people with rascist names. OF COURSE IM NOT SAYING everyone needs to be screened to see if they have a personaly offensive name, but a warning for "IH8KNEEGROWS" and other obvious rascists should be stated. Anything someone does in their own time is whatever they want it to be, but rascism has no place in online games. Its corrupting kids like me and i wont stand for it in the future. I didnt stand in line for halo 2 for 7 hours in 30 degree weather so i could be haggled by rascists..
p.s. if i spelled anything wrong its cuz i am very low on time.

[Edited on 11/29/2004 3:10:34 PM]

  • 11.29.2004 3:08 PM PDT
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Disregarding the replys to the initial thread starter, id have to aggree with you on this. However it is increasingly difficult for mods to track down these offenders without feedback. but there are alot of names i do not like to see. However they like to spell them so that they can say they are talking about something else. However saying that the name "ih8kneegrows" is talking about knee growth is foolish. it is obvoiusly a racist statement, and also at the rate at which bones grow the probability of someone noticing any type of bothersome after effect OF the knee's growing as one ages is foolish to say that his name means he hates "knees growing" quite frankly he should have his name changed by force to something like, 1luvfuzzybuni3s. My name is Faceless Red on Halo2 and also Dead or alive 2 ultimate if anyone wants to find me

  • 11.29.2004 4:06 PM PDT
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all things considered, it wasnt just the name that was offensive, though that alone warranted a ban in my opinion, its also the players. yoozel, in his/her post to me made mention the fact that it is rated for 17 & up by the esrb. no matter the rating there is no age limit that makes blatant racism ok. i read a post that said racism isnt a crime its a mode of thought. wrong. it is a crime, racism and bigotry beget criminal actions. to call someone (and please forgive me for this its used as an example only) -blam!-, -blam!-, heeb or any other term even remotely close, is a crime, i call someone any of those things on the street, i can be arrested, sued, and undergo a whole slue of various civil penalties. the term "negro" is also a racist term, thats why you dont see it on census forms. you see african-american. theres a whole clan that has its members insert the name "whitey" in thier nics, even that is racist. regardless if they are caucasian or not, reverse racism is still racism by any stretch of the imagination, and its WRONG. I fought for my country, to help other countries move away from this neanderthal modality, i wonder how many of the racists did the same. I can no longer walk, im wheelchair bound, and ill be damned if i have to deal with someone running around with a nic like that, regardless of age, or race.

  • 11.29.2004 10:08 PM PDT
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heres "Ih8kneegrows" newest missive to me, hes now running around as nightmare13 or something similiarly unimaginative....




Sent: 11/29/2004

Subject: re: re: right here...



LOL, look what you just said, u obviously have no life whatsoever like i stated earlier! Anyone who goes through so much effort to just to look like a moron is the damn idiot, way to go lol, your eligible for the special olympics this year you extra chromosome packing douche. Way to go fatass, sit there and send mail like a fat manitee because there is nothing you can do to stop my name you stupid retard. HAHAHAHA, god dumbasses like you should just be led into on coming traffic and save us all a bunch of money on welfare you waste of space. Good day moron...

and, um nightmare, like i said earlier, learn how to spell.

  • 11.29.2004 10:13 PM PDT
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I hate to do this because I know Bungie wouldn't approve (not because they would want to go against you but just because of what it's turning into), but I have to say that that kind of behavior is pretty terrible. nothing can really be said about it though (well... things can be said, but nothing done), I am on your side though, but I won't fight anything, it's just... oh i don't know! it's a very delicate thing, I would just recommend that you ignore him, and let this ordeal end without consequence to either side.

  • 11.29.2004 10:20 PM PDT

If you have a complaint about a moderator then instead of posting it on a public forum could you use the PM system instead? First PM the moderator in question. If you're not satisfied by that response then stosh or Shishka are the master mods. And if you're still not satisfied then SketchFactor is the person to contact.

  • 11.30.2004 3:54 AM PDT

Gaming Podcasts
www.dropshockradio.com,
www.VectorGamma.com

This is among the most interesting threads I've encountered here on Bungie.net. The "kneeGrows" name is clearly meant to express a racist sentiment, but it's vague and really subject to interpretation, and that's where it gets tricky. Take the name SaintWrath for example - Wrath is considered one of the seven deadly sins, and yet by adding it as a surname to Saint, it associates itself with the divinity of God which, by some, would be considered blasphemy. It doesn't offend me at all, because I'm athiest, but do you see my point? To establish some kind of Gamertag Gestapo, we open the doors to the kind of regulation that restricts creative and expressive nicknaming. Sadly, there will always be some asshat who slips something derrogatory into the public, but we can't oppress the many because of the indiscretions of the very few. In a free society, we must occasionally just ignore those who would abuse it, because to give them attention is the empower them even more.

  • 11.30.2004 5:01 AM PDT
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to the forum ninja that was enlightening me as to how to contact those responsible for all the moderators: myself and yoozel have ended our differences, he apologized as did i, and i have garnered some respect for him since he initiated it.

as to the last post, i agree that there is only so much one could possibly do (in a world of free speech) to try and keep certain naming aspects at a minimum, and if you cross a certain line than your analogy involoving the "gestapo" would be accurate. However, there are certain things that CANNOT be done in a public venue. Have you ever seen a game that stars a member of the -blam!- running around burning crosses, and harrassing non-caucasians? will never happen. and why? because this government OUR government would come down so hard on it that it would be like fareinheit 451 in a nanosecond. there will never be a movie in hollywood that paints racism in a positive light, the closest i could think of would be american history x and even then the picture was clouded. to have someone run around with an OBVIOUSLY racist nic and be allowed to play with it is condoning thier actions. im not saying bungie is racist, cause if anything they are on the other end of the spectrum, tale a look at the marines scattered throughout halo and halo2's cinematics. bungie is quite obviously a progressive company and for that and many other reasons i applaud them, i think unfortuanately now this is an xbox live issue overall.

as to the saintwrath nic (this will be fun) as a fallen catholic, i still have some love for the idea of canonization, not the act just the idea, and wrath was utilized as an old testament version. i.e. wrath of god etc. before i joined the navy i was in college, majoring in theology, so anytime i have to make a nic thier are always pseudoreligious aspects to it..... just my thing.

and this discussion and its posters have truly begun to encompass something totally different than what i expected. i must say im pleased to find so many frightening intellects roaming the boards.

  • 11.30.2004 12:52 PM PDT

yoo•zel- ('yoo-zhul): slang: vb.

Officium quod Fidelitas.

Just to be safe on this subject… This thread is going to be closed because it is becoming dangerously close to religious debate/discussion and politics, both subjects that we try to keep the boards free of. Do not think of this as me closing down something that shows my scorn, I have faced the music and I had admitted that I was wrong, but now it’s time to think of the better good of the forums.

And to SaintWrath, I suggest you follow up your searches to eliminate offensive names over Xbox Live. Maybe heading over to xbox.com and search for some contact information or consulting your Xbox Live manual (assuming you both the starter kit) for information pertaining to complaints and suggestions to Xbox Live.

And an added piece of information, Bungie.net moderators are not Bungie employees. With the exception of Shishka.

  • 11.30.2004 1:02 PM PDT