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Subject: Suck? Or bad luck?
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Posted by: B3OWULF
Posted by: Halo117
Is it a bad connection?
Never having host?
Is there some secret technique to playing Halo that I just never got the memo on?


All of the above.

First, check your connection here. What's more important to you than upload/download is your Round Trip Time and Max Pause. Most cable broadband gives RTTs between 40 and 65ms, and as long as you're under 90ms you should be OK. Max Pause should be within that range, although if it's 125 to 150ms you'll still be "OK".

Also, is there any other equipment networked off your XBox -- like is someone else surfing/downloading at the same time? That will affect performance as well. Someone else posted something about NAT settings yesterday, not sure which thread it was.

And, as far as the "secret technique" goes, it's called button glitching. I run across it nearly every game these days. And yes, I, too was higher in rank before the reset. Many have complained about the same thing. It has to do with the rampant cheating and circle boosting going on recently. Players have multiple accounts, and get together with buddies who alternately de-rank and boost so they can be matched against lower-level players.


First off, I was very well aware of button glitching, and believe me its an endless complaint of mine. But to get back to the general disadvantages of connection quality... Your link was very helpfull, it gave me an 84 RTT, which by your definition should be okay. This leaves the question of why I always find myself in the situations where my activities simply do not work. I do infact have two computers running off the connection, but neither computer engages in activity while I play. Is the only solution, then, to just dump the comps and plug straight into my Xbox? Should that really prevent all the ridiculous disadvantages everyone here agrees on? I'm here for answers, and I hope everyone who shares our problem can find them too.

A big thanks to B3OWULF, you're being extremely helpfull!

[Edited on 08.28.2007 10:25 PM PDT]

  • 08.28.2007 9:41 PM PDT
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Hey B3OWULF, I tried that quality test several times and added it to my favorites. I am happy to say that I consistantly have a 32 ms round trip and an average service quality of 97% with Comcast as my ISP. Thank you so much for supplying such a wonderful tool, it is much appreciated. However, I have also experianced the same problems that Halo117 and the other commenters have described. Is it just other people's garbage hosts, have we all angered various omnipotent forces in this universe, or what?

  • 08.28.2007 11:04 PM PDT

Wonderful
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Posted by: AF ARMY ToughGuy
Oh, btw, you dropped some of your lunch into b-net. I found it

Posted by: RiG four oh won
haha.. level 32, level 29...ahhh, good times....i had a 49 and two 41s....but anyways, yeah i have def like lunged through people then they assassinate me, and i get pissed....the thing that annoys me the most is when i have a BR and someone else had SMG dualies, they kill me, but whenever i have SMG dualies and they have a BR, they kill me....and they dont quad, or double, or excessive shoot me, not even 4 shot....it pisses me off


Easy to say such thing that can never be proven?

[Edited on 08.28.2007 11:13 PM PDT]

  • 08.28.2007 11:12 PM PDT

my other account, if you are gonna send me an FR, send it to this account and my Main GT.

Posted by: B3OWULF
Posted by: Halo117
Is it a bad connection?
Never having host?
Is there some secret technique to playing Halo that I just never got the memo on?


All of the above.

First, check your connection here. What's more important to you than upload/download is your Round Trip Time and Max Pause. Most cable broadband gives RTTs between 40 and 65ms, and as long as you're under 90ms you should be OK. Max Pause should be within that range, although if it's 125 to 150ms you'll still be "OK".

Also, is there any other equipment networked off your XBox -- like is someone else surfing/downloading at the same time? That will affect performance as well. Someone else posted something about NAT settings yesterday, not sure which thread it was.

And, as far as the "secret technique" goes, it's called button glitching. I run across it nearly every game these days. And yes, I, too was higher in rank before the reset. Many have complained about the same thing. It has to do with the rampant cheating and circle boosting going on recently. Players have multiple accounts, and get together with buddies who alternately de-rank and boost so they can be matched against lower-level players.


Missed lunges has NOTHING to do with button glitchers. I'm so sick of the lesser skilled players blaming their lack of ability on button glitching like sooooooo many of the bnet kids do. If you aren't good at the game don't kid yourself and say "if that guy didn't bxr me twice, i wouldn't have lost by 20 kills".

[Edited on 08.29.2007 12:24 AM PDT]

  • 08.29.2007 12:22 AM PDT
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Posted by: brownish pile253
Posted by: B3OWULF
Posted by: Halo117
Is it a bad connection?
Never having host?
Is there some secret technique to playing Halo that I just never got the memo on?


All of the above.

First, check your connection here. What's more important to you than upload/download is your Round Trip Time and Max Pause. Most cable broadband gives RTTs between 40 and 65ms, and as long as you're under 90ms you should be OK. Max Pause should be within that range, although if it's 125 to 150ms you'll still be "OK".

Also, is there any other equipment networked off your XBox -- like is someone else surfing/downloading at the same time? That will affect performance as well. Someone else posted something about NAT settings yesterday, not sure which thread it was.

And, as far as the "secret technique" goes, it's called button glitching. I run across it nearly every game these days. And yes, I, too was higher in rank before the reset. Many have complained about the same thing. It has to do with the rampant cheating and circle boosting going on recently. Players have multiple accounts, and get together with buddies who alternately de-rank and boost so they can be matched against lower-level players.


Missed lunges has NOTHING to do with button glitchers. I'm so sick of the lesser skilled players blaming their lack of ability on button glitching like sooooooo many of the bnet kids do. If you aren't good at the game don't kid yourself and say "if that guy didn't bxr me twice, i wouldn't have lost by 20 kills".


Please try not to be a total jerk, and actually read what the guy posts before you trash him. He said that in reasponse to my "Secret technique" comment, and that alone. Everyone knows what button glitching can and can not do, and I will not turn this into another button glitching arguement, that was long settled.

  • 08.29.2007 1:21 AM PDT

Freedom of Speech does not equal "Freedom from Consequences when one speaks".

It is a right, and all rights have responsibilities associated with them. Ignore the responsibility, and you tend to lose the right.
Recon Number 54

Posted by: Halo117
First off, I was very well aware of button glitching, and believe me its an endless complaint of mine. But to get back to the general disadvantages of connection quality... Your link was very helpfull, it gave me an 84 RTT, which by your definition should be okay. This leaves the question of why I always find myself in the situations where my activities simply do not work. I do infact have two computers running off the connection, but neither computer engages in activity while I play. Is the only solution, then, to just dump the comps and plug straight into my Xbox? Should that really prevent all the ridiculous disadvantages everyone here agrees on? I'm here for answers, and I hope everyone who shares our problem can find them too.

A big thanks to B3OWULF, you're being extremely helpfull!


Good, so you've eliminated the RTT -- you've got a decent result. You didn't mention your Max Pause, is that also within acceptable ranges?

I use a dedicated modem just for my 360, but that's probably not necessary for you as long as your computer(s) isn't in use while you play. Next time you're on XBL and notice the symptoms you described, check out the green bars next to your gamertag. Even if you're mostly green but missing one bar, that's enough to give you gameplay problems. Oftentimes, this is simply a reflection of the other team having host, and you have a few server hops to get to host's IP. Generally speaking, the closer you are to a metropolitan hub, and the closer the host is to a metropolitan hub, the better the game conditions will be.

It's possible you may have to tweak your modem (MTU) or router (NAT settings). If there's a firewall in the router, it may be influencing the data transmission in and/or out. I'm not an expert in this area -- check this article for more information.

If all else fails, take heart, because H3 is just around the corner. I'm not sure how Bungie did it, but there is very little connection superiority in MM. H2 has a slight amount of lag built into the game to account for connection differences, and it's possible that H3 is designed with a bit more...but don't quote me.

Posted by: Malign Ghost
Hey B3OWULF, I tried that quality test several times and added it to my favorites. I am happy to say that I consistantly have a 32 ms round trip and an average service quality of 97% with Comcast as my ISP. Thank you so much for supplying such a wonderful tool, it is much appreciated. However, I have also experianced the same problems that Halo117 and the other commenters have described. Is it just other people's garbage hosts, have we all angered various omnipotent forces in this universe, or what?


Glad that you found InternetFrog helpful, and congratulations on your great connection! I'm guessing that you're just victim of other hosts. Again, like I mentioned above, the distance either you or the host machine is from a metropolitan hub will increase gameplay problems. Since you've got a phenomenal RTT, the problem is probably on host end. I would think you would be awarded host fairly often with such a great line?

It's always amazing to me how those with great connections (as well as the friends they team up with -- even more of an advantage there) don't understand how much that improves their gaming. They think that a poor connection is like what they experience when they're not host, and nothing more. Those of us with problems know that it goes a lot further than that! You've got a great connection, but something needs tweaking maybe to get you beyond the weird gameplay issues so that your level truly reflects your skill. Take that level 40 gamer and put him alone in MM (and don't allow glitching, etc.), and his results will be much different! I can just this week begin using the plasma pistol, that I've never before been able to use in MM. It used to fly off into space with a mind of its own, instead of tracking and hitting the target. And sometimes I'd unload an entire clip from the BR and not take down an opponent. Etc., etc., ad nauseum... This because I upgraded my service from BellSouth/AT&T Ultra (1.5Mbps) to Extreme (3.0Mbps). My RTTs are now 78ms, but Max Pause is not much improved (they tell me they're working on it), ranging between 300 and 1100ms. The average range is lower than before, though, so it's a definite improvement.

I know there are those who will flame me, but I'm convinced that once a player reaches a certain skill set in Halo, there are no other significant skills to continue leveling higher. The only difference between a level 25 and a 35 (minus team advantages) IMHO, is connection superiority.

[Edited on 08.29.2007 8:08 AM PDT]

  • 08.29.2007 7:44 AM PDT
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Actually Beowulf I am in Rhode Island not Australia. I dont know where u got that from.

  • 08.29.2007 8:00 AM PDT

Freedom of Speech does not equal "Freedom from Consequences when one speaks".

It is a right, and all rights have responsibilities associated with them. Ignore the responsibility, and you tend to lose the right.
Recon Number 54

Posted by: Taroostyles
Actually Beowulf I am in Rhode Island not Australia. I dont know where u got that from.


Sorry -- my bad.

  • 08.29.2007 8:09 AM PDT
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Oh no its ok but how good of a connection should I have? Its Verizon DSL I believe.

[Edited on 08.29.2007 8:11 AM PDT]

  • 08.29.2007 8:11 AM PDT

Freedom of Speech does not equal "Freedom from Consequences when one speaks".

It is a right, and all rights have responsibilities associated with them. Ignore the responsibility, and you tend to lose the right.
Recon Number 54

Posted by: Taroostyles
Oh no its ok but how good of a connection should I have? Its Verizon DSL I believe.


Check it through the link I provided. On another thread a Verizon DSL customer had a 32ms RTT, which is just about as good as it gets. Can't remember what his Max Pause was. A Max Pause over 150ms or so will start giving you noticeable game problems which will progressively get worse the higher the number. Usually upload/download speeds aren't an issue -- unless you're using dialup or something.

  • 08.29.2007 8:40 AM PDT
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How do I get the test to start? Im on the page and I see the categories they test but no like start test button or anything.

Nvm I had to fix my java application. I am gonna test it again cause the first one was really bad.

Wow so far from 4 tests my connection really sucks. The best i did was 53 percent and something 720 MP

[Edited on 08.29.2007 9:31 AM PDT]

  • 08.29.2007 9:18 AM PDT

R a Z o R

Stevo R a Z o R

mabye u dont suck but ur method on killing or trying to kill is bad. but if ur really into chasing the guy and not letting him get away then that could be a problem cuz then he could chuck grenades at you while u are chasing which results into a death.

well wut im trying to say is dont think like a mindless beast that wants a kill SO BAD

think smart get good at throughing grenades and lower your sensitvity if ur not getting those head shots

ANOTHER thing stay calm dont get angery with your self when u do it just makes you worse

if eny 1 needs advice please pm me (personal message) or email me at Stevo_Razor@hotmail.com
ONLY IF THIS HELPS A LIL :)


[Edited on 08.29.2007 11:13 AM PDT]

  • 08.29.2007 11:11 AM PDT

Freedom of Speech does not equal "Freedom from Consequences when one speaks".

It is a right, and all rights have responsibilities associated with them. Ignore the responsibility, and you tend to lose the right.
Recon Number 54

Posted by: Taroostyles
How do I get the test to start? Im on the page and I see the categories they test but no like start test button or anything.

Nvm I had to fix my java application. I am gonna test it again cause the first one was really bad.

Wow so far from 4 tests my connection really sucks. The best i did was 53 percent and something 720 MP


Sounds like you're making progress. Don't worry about the upload or download speeds -- sometimes mine come in relatively poor because of variables such as web traffic, etc. And, it's going to give you a number LESS than what Verizon claims. (If it's consistently more than 50% less -- every single test -- than what they say you should have, i.e. you have a 3.0Mbps dowload service but you're only testing 900Kbps, you need to call their tech support department.) Also, don't worry about the "Quality of Service" percentage -- this number is just a percentage based upon the stats that particular test provided, and may not accurately reflect your overall line performance.

Like I pointed out in the posts above, look at the Round Trip Time and Max Pause. In order for there to be little noticeable effect in gameplay, your Round Trip Time should be under 90ms, and Max Pause less than about 150ms. If your numbers are above that, the game will still be playable, of course, it's just that you'll notice frustrating issues like others mentioned.

  • 08.29.2007 11:27 AM PDT
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Posted by: gadman3660
I have the same experience. Has been 28 in team slayer, but I frequently find myself in laggy games being killed in really bizarre situations where I had the upper hand. The feeling one get is like " I killed the bastard twice already, and he turn around and SMG me to death...". Many times I have been running behind the enemy pumping 3-4 shutgon blast point blank, and he doesn't die, instead turns around an break my spine like it was a twig....
This situation have gone up and down, but I must say that in recent months it has been really bad sometimes....

i agree

  • 08.29.2007 11:59 AM PDT

I'm better than you..Its just hard for me to prove it.

I read a lot of the posts but rarely post myself. I'm impressed with everyones willingness to answer each others questions and give intelligent responses to one another. Only one jerk post so far...

  • 08.29.2007 12:14 PM PDT
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I just did a test and it came back like this

RTT 137ms

MP 1210ms

Thats really bad, is there anything I can do other than changing service?

  • 08.29.2007 2:02 PM PDT

Freedom of Speech does not equal "Freedom from Consequences when one speaks".

It is a right, and all rights have responsibilities associated with them. Ignore the responsibility, and you tend to lose the right.
Recon Number 54

Posted by: Taroostyles
I just did a test and it came back like this

RTT 137ms

MP 1210ms

Thats really bad, is there anything I can do other than changing service?


Those results are similar to what mine used to test. Unfortunately, there's nothing you can do except call tech support if they're not providing the quality of service you are paying for. With numbers like that, I'm guessing that you have their basic DSL service. I don't know for certain, but check if Verizon has an upgrade available -- chances are it won't be more than an additional $5 per month or so.

  • 08.29.2007 3:32 PM PDT
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WOW i always you to say hey bungie hate me my meles would go short the sword would miss people when i turn fast and shot the shotty it hits the guy but he loses no shield wow i cannot belive i found more people with this probs oh but all this was gone in h3 which is why i was so much better

  • 08.29.2007 5:57 PM PDT
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Posted by: RiG four oh won
haha.. level 32, level 29...ahhh, good times....i had a 49 and two 41s....but anyways, yeah i have def like lunged through people then they assassinate me, and i get pissed....the thing that annoys me the most is when i have a BR and someone else had SMG dualies, they kill me, but whenever i have SMG dualies and they have a BR, they kill me....and they dont quad, or double, or excessive shoot me, not even 4 shot....it pisses me off

you were a lvl 49 cus u cheated. dont say your legit cus we all know your lying

  • 08.29.2007 7:07 PM PDT

Send A Friend Request to Schloxictonkey if you need a good teammate and you are good

kinda suck.... raise sensitivity and use boxer. I know I suck at beatdowns when I don't use boxer

  • 08.29.2007 7:13 PM PDT
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Posted by: B3OWULF

Good, so you've eliminated the RTT -- you've got a decent result. You didn't mention your Max Pause, is that also within acceptable ranges?


My max pause changes from 59ms to 68ms at various times. All together it doesn't sound so bad, except I get a 79% on the service part... But reguardless of my connection I still experience these problems... If our only hope truely is Halo3, then we have a long, long wait ahead of us.

[Edited on 08.29.2007 8:03 PM PDT]

  • 08.29.2007 8:02 PM PDT
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Unfortunately, I can't say that I get host in more than 30% of the games that I play (IF THAT). I would like to think that host is something that is given to the connection which would provide the most enjoyable gameplay for all players, yet more often than not, it is given to a player which will then have a greater advantage than all else that opposes their wrath (Excluding those fearful enough of losing that they must force host ). Have we ever actually been informed about how host is determined? I do my best to get into games with friends of equal skill and connection quality, but things just don't work out as often as they should considering the circumstances. I am a good player and teammate, but am severely discouraged becuase of things that just don't seem right.

  • 08.30.2007 1:07 AM PDT

Freedom of Speech does not equal "Freedom from Consequences when one speaks".

It is a right, and all rights have responsibilities associated with them. Ignore the responsibility, and you tend to lose the right.
Recon Number 54

Posted by: Malign Ghost
Unfortunately, I can't say that I get host in more than 30% of the games that I play (IF THAT). I would like to think that host is something that is given to the connection which would provide the most enjoyable gameplay for all players, yet more often than not, it is given to a player which will then have a greater advantage than all else that opposes their wrath (Excluding those fearful enough of losing that they must force host ). Have we ever actually been informed about how host is determined? I do my best to get into games with friends of equal skill and connection quality, but things just don't work out as often as they should considering the circumstances. I am a good player and teammate, but am severely discouraged becuase of things that just don't seem right.


That's surprising that you don't get host more often. I don't know for certain, but I believe that either Bungie or M$ pings your machine each time you sign on, and maintains a history containing the results, then uses these histories given a subset of gamers wanting to enter MM at a given point in time. I thought that host was then awarded to the gamer within that group who has the most superior connection that matches best with others. But your experience seems to contradict that. By comparison, I am NEVER host, and only get on a host team maybe one or two games in ten.

Now, part of the reason I'm never host is because I play alone. The probabilities are higher that a team of two, three, or four will have the best connection, and host will go to a team more often than a single (unless someone's got a T1 line or something). Teams are usually made up of players who have found each other through above-average connection between them allowing them to play well together (besides the other obvious reasons). Double jeopardy -- host, plus fast connections between the host team members. The opponents will then usually be made up of other singles or doubles.

You're approaching the problem in the best way -- trying to get together with others, although it may be that you don't have a great connection between you and your friends, and perhaps that's why you don't get host often. Again, I don't know, but maybe the servers also consider a team's average ping rate before awarding host. If someone on your team has a high Max Pause, it may look like a potential standbyer to the Banhammer. Might be educational to have your friends test their lines on InternetFrog too, and maybe something interesting will turn up.

I can tell by your stats that you're a skilled player, and I can certainly understand your frustrations. I get discouraged too, but it's like I have this love/hate relationship with the game. There are times I feel like throwing the controller at the screen because I obviously outperformed an opponent but he got the kill, but yet I keep coming back several nights a week because the game is so great. I really, really enjoyed playing the Beta a few weeks ago, because during those few sessions I truly felt that my results reflected my skill level. Many other players were sending me invites, so others noticed too. (My favorite weapon was the new Needler, and it ticked off the players on the receiving end bigtime!)

(Aside from connection issues, I wish there was a way to improve matchups based on certain preferences. I know that the Recreational, Underground, and Pro settings are an attempt in this direction. But in practice, doesn't work well. I'm much older than most other players, and don't have a lot of patience for the appalling behaviour/language I experience in MM.}

I think Bungie understands the problems associated with varying connection issues, and it will be better -- in just a few more days! :)

  • 08.30.2007 10:15 AM PDT

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