Halo 1 & 2 for PC
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Subject: Cheats/Hacks on Halo PC?
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When you enter a pub just say " I USE A AIMBOT " . It make ignorant players leave out, once you killed them a few time in a row.

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[Edited on 6/13/2004 1:25:56 PM]

  • 06.09.2004 6:22 PM PDT
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Well you still dont believe there are hacks/cheats. either that or you are defending those you know that use them. no dev is here in this forum explaining how the code cannot be changed or cheats cannot be written to work with a server authoratative system. BTW goweb your description of a MP game is basically the same with all MP games aside from the server part. No one that has posted any "real" evidence that there are no cheats /hacks for Halo PC. I actually found a site that you can download hacks from...and posted it. I understand that there are insanely good Halo PC players that have (because of a lack of a real life) played Halo PC 15 hours a day since it shipped. Problem is that they (even with such great skill) cannot hit a moving banshee with every round from an AR from one end of BG to the other (i was in the shee), and all done on an official bungie server. This is just one of many instances i have witnessed hackers. I have been an Admin on more CS servers than i have fingers and toes (since pre-public beta). I have found a way for sniffing out hackers (acutally many different ways). So get off of your power trip of "knowledge" about a game that you have only recieved second hand from devs that are less than informative about what has been implemented in the code to stop hacking, and realize that no matter what people do to make hacks difficult, another will write a hack that makes it possible.

  • 06.10.2004 1:31 AM PDT

Firstly, none of the devs would be on a b.net board. Secondly, TalkingElmo is a Gearbox moderator, and therefore has contact with the devs. Thirdly, my description was different - see:

SERVER-AUTHORITATIVE
The game isn't actually played on your computer. You are watching a simulation of the actual game, which is being played on the server. Your copy of Halo tells the server which buttons you press, but whether you pick up anything or which gun you fire is decided by the server. So it's impossible to affect the real game being played on the server. That's impossible, not very very difficult.

CLIENT-AUTHORITATIVE
The game is played completely on your computer. Your client tells the server what you have done - picked up an item, killed somone, etc. - and the server then tells the other clients. This is open to abuse because packets can be spoofed that tell the server that you have just killed someone, when really you could be on the other side of the map.

So you see the difference? One has the server telling the clients what is happening, and the other has the clients telling the server what is happening. And it only takes a minute amount of logical thought to realise why most hacks are impossible.

  • 06.10.2004 6:18 AM PDT
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either that or you are defending those you know that use them.

Nope.

your description of a MP game is basically the same with all MP games aside from the server part

Exactly. That's the point. "Aside from the server part" is a pretty big difference. The way Halo keeps track of what's happening in the game is fundamentally different than other games you may be familiar with (like Counter Strike, BF 1942, Unreal, etc.). That's like saying, "My sailboat is basically the same as that motor boat over there, except for the whole engine and sailing part."

The reason client-side hacks can't work on Halo is because the real game is taking place on the server. If I make a hack or mod on my machine to make my pistol shoot rockets, to spawn overshields all over the place, or make my shotgun shoot all the way across Blood Gulch, it makes no difference in the real game because none of those hacks are registering on the server. Regardless of how I hacked the game on my end, the game on the server will still have normal weapons, normal powerups, and normal health levels for all the players. The server is what keeps track of the state of the game, and if the client and server disagree (i.e. your computer tries to tell the server that you got all headshots), the server overrules.

No one that has posted any "real" evidence that there are no cheats /hacks for Halo PC.
No one has posted any real evidence that the Abominable Snowman isn't in New York City either. You can't prove the nonexistence of something. How could I post "real" evidence that there are no cheats for Halo?

How about a direct quote from one of the Gearbox developers?

The trainer programs are very, very funny

They work for single player, thats fine, it does not hurt anyone else if folks want to goof off and have fun. But in multiplayer on a dedicated server its quite a bit different.

People that use these are seeing on their end unlimited ammo, super overshield, super health, etc.... Its all client side. So the folks using these are just fooling themselves.

The Halo server is what matters, it does not see any of the results of the trainer. Same thing goes for folks using hacked .map files. They may see grenades or warthogs shooting out of their pistols, but the server sees the game correctly.

You see, the server has the authority, what the server says goes, all game decisions are final

David Mertz
Gearbox Software

  • 06.10.2004 3:52 PM PDT
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yes aimbots and other hacks exist eveywhere, right now the most popular examples of cheating players would be on Counter-Strike and Diablo II (about a couple of thousands cheating in there if im not wrong) and a bunch of other games. Although i do think yu get lucky sometimes (hey i shot a guy across the map and got a headshot with a heavy machine gun one tie) but if its presisten you usually know if the guy is hacking.

However i dont know how this affects Halo cause i didnt play it online yet ;)

[Edited on 6/10/2004 4:11:18 PM]

  • 06.10.2004 4:09 PM PDT

An aimbot for Halo would be about as useful as a solar-powered street light. Seriously, the amount of lead you need is unbelievable.

  • 06.10.2004 5:11 PM PDT
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Ok first off, it is obvious you understand absolutely nothing about how programming code works. Lead is not an issue, there are literally thousands of ways around that. Even if there were not, don't you think the same computer that can produce the graphics and sounds and AI in Halo could predict something so routinely arithmetical as target lead? Secondly, there a lot of solar powered street lights around. They charge during the day and use that power at night. Third, no matter what precautions developers take, there will ALWAYS be people who will find ways around them. There is no such thing as a hacker-proof program. No matter how incredible a job Bungie or Gearbox does making its net code hack-proof, there will always be someone who finds a way through. Even the most secure systems in the WORLD are broken into regularly, and have to constantly evolve to keep ahead of the hackers. It is a known and proven FACT. It cannot be argued with. It cannot be debated. It is the way things are. And lastly, I am sure that there are many players who are just plain good, and don't need hacks. I hardly ever miss, let alone die or get hit, in Half-Life. It's not difficult at all to see how people can be insanely good at a game. Some people are just good. So instead of -blam!-ing about it, why don't you just suck it up and have some fun like the rest of the world?

  • 06.11.2004 12:14 AM PDT

No, I don't think that the aimbot could be made to overcome the problem. If it could then Halo's prediction code would also be able to. And we're not saying Halo is hack-proof - just that most hacks won't work with it.

  • 06.11.2004 12:25 AM PDT
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I love open minded people. You know, those people who don't already have their minds made up before they even ask a question... Yeah. Well I'm not seeing many of those here. And, in order to reduce unnecessary expenditure of time and effort, I refuse to carry on a conversation with anyone of the non-open -minded variety. Therefore, you may carry on in your nice little mostly-hack-free version of the world.
Oh yeah, and by the way, one of my hobbies is target shooting, and I can calculate target lead in my head, on the spot. I can do it, and my 80286 (old IBM-compatible processor, commonly called the 286, runs at a clock speed--I beleive, though I'm not absolutely sure--of less than 4mhz, and definitely below 12mhz) from the 1980's can do it. So can every computer that can run Halo. If you really want, I'll even provide you with the formula for it, and I'd bet that at least with a calculator or pencil and paper, even you, who I don't think has ever tried to calculate it before, could easily do so.

[Edited on 6/11/2004 1:07:13 AM]

  • 06.11.2004 12:33 AM PDT

Prediction is almost impossible because most sensible people don't run in an obvious pattern. But we are stating a know fact - that most hacks are impossible for Halo because of how the netcode works.

  • 06.11.2004 7:37 AM PDT
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Its Soo funny that this topic has come to the attention of a gearbox "moderator" not a dev beacause that would be too "low class" for a dev. I mean whats wrong with getting first hand info on this topic from a dev and not having to hear it spoon fed from a "moderator" on thier boards? The fact still remains that there are hacks for Halo PC because NO program is "hack proof" or "impossible" to hack. Since the client is still telling the server what buttons are pushed would it be impossible to have the mouse movements emulated by a bot? Or would it be impossible to have a bot fire the weapon for the player when the shot is correct..? No it would not be. Would it be impossible to hack the client into making a perfect headshot at all times with lock-on and lead?? Obviously not. If the client tells the server that a person is hitting the right keys and making the right movements to perform well (headshots, lock-on, ect.), then that is what the server is going to emulate to the rest of the clients, thusly hacking does work. I would think that a "moderator" from a popular forum such as Gearbox would not flame someone on this forum like he did, but since he himself is dealing out info he also got second-hand I do not blame him for his ignorance...Oh and goweb its a solar powered flashlight. By the way, All those that believe that Halo PC cannot be hacked are either blind or are so un-intelligent that they could not pour piss out of a boot, with the instructions writen on the heel.

  • 06.11.2004 11:58 AM PDT
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I would think that a "moderator" from a popular forum such as Gearbox would not flame someone on this forum like he did

You can think whatever you want, I'm done arguing. I'd just like to point out that I didn't flame anyone. Speaking of flaming other users:

All those that believe that Halo PC cannot be hacked are either blind or are so un-intelligent that they could not pour piss out of a boot, with the instructions writen on the heel.

Nice.

  • 06.11.2004 1:25 PM PDT
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I'm scared and confused

  • 06.11.2004 2:41 PM PDT

If so, you could also say that im doing that right now?I mean replying to this topic means; Im interested in Being a MOD!, or I want to be KNOWN.
If you would like a dev to respond then may I suggest posting this on the Gearbox forums? Because they're unlikely to visit the site of another developer, aren't they?
Since the client is still telling the server what buttons are pushed would it be impossible to have the mouse movements emulated by a bot? Or would it be impossible to have a bot fire the weapon for the player when the shot is correct..? No it would not be. Would it be impossible to hack the client into making a perfect headshot at all times with lock-on and lead?? Obviously not.
Not quite the same as unlimited overshield though, which is a hack that you previously refused to believe wasn't possible. Aimbots obviously aren't completely impossible, but I would think that they would be less-than-effective, considering that Halo probably has the best prediction in code that a large team of professional developers could write. Compare that with the efforts of an unprofessional hacker group, and you can see the problems.
And aimbots, in the whole scheme of things, aren't enough to warrant the use of a full, and expensive, hack detection suite - you've got to remember that these are only used on other games because of the nature of the netcode.

[Edited on 6/11/2004 4:11:40 PM]

  • 06.11.2004 4:06 PM PDT
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No one has posted any real evidence that the Abominable Snowman isn't in New York City either. You can't prove the nonexistence of something. How could I post "real" evidence that there are no cheats for Halo?.


yes that is a flame mr elmo. Plain as your nose in the devs butt (also a flame), also as plain as gowebs nose in your butt (flame). and yes aimbots would be possible seeing as ussually the best hacks are made by those that reside inside the programing circle of such "professional" companies, and then are leaked by thier close friends to the public. Also the "un-professional" coders that write hacks are ussually some of the more talented coding pheaks in the game commmunity. Also "infinite" shields would not have to exist if the client were telling the server that the character had pushed the button soon enough for the other client to miss the shot. Making it appear that the person was not ever being hit or that his/her hacking self was not ever losing shield power. There are more than obvious ways to get around the server authority. Any person with an imagination and alot of time to write hacks for a version of a game that hasnt been updated in a long time would have no problem making it happen.

  • 06.11.2004 7:46 PM PDT
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you know you do sound like one of those soar loser nOObs out there looking for an excuse for your lake of skill

  • 06.11.2004 8:26 PM PDT
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Posted by: Moriarity
No one has posted any real evidence that the Abominable Snowman isn't in New York City either. You can't prove the nonexistence of something. How could I post "real" evidence that there are no cheats for Halo?.


yes that is a flame mr elmo. Plain as your nose in the devs butt (also a flame), also as plain as gowebs nose in your butt (flame). and yes aimbots would be possible seeing as ussually the best hacks are made by those that reside inside the programing circle of such "professional" companies, and then are leaked by thier close friends to the public. Also the "un-professional" coders that write hacks are ussually some of the more talented coding pheaks in the game commmunity. Also "infinite" shields would not have to exist if the client were telling the server that the character had pushed the button soon enough for the other client to miss the shot. Making it appear that the person was not ever being hit or that his/her hacking self was not ever losing shield power. There are more than obvious ways to get around the server authority. Any person with an imagination and alot of time to write hacks for a version of a game that hasnt been updated in a long time would have no problem making it happen.


Click the last link in my sig, thats the only cure for you. No matter what we will say you will always be "right".

  • 06.11.2004 9:13 PM PDT

Moriarity, that isn't a flame. However, what you said is. So stop it.
Also "infinite" shields would not have to exist if the client were telling the server that the character had pushed the button soon enough for the other client to miss the shot. Making it appear that the person was not ever being hit or that his/her hacking self was not ever losing shield power.
Considering most weapons hit you instantaneously, how would you dodge them? And rockets are piss-easy to dodge anyway.

  • 06.12.2004 3:23 AM PDT
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Perhaps the map is modded?

  • 06.12.2004 2:56 PM PDT
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you know you do sound like one of those soar loser nOObs out there looking for an excuse for your lake of skill

Oh man, don't even get me started. HaloPC is chock full of these people. Every time you kill them, they start whining or complaining about stuff, and/or accusing you of cheating.

a vehicle was killed by Josh
a vehicle: omfg wtf!!! No f---ing way!
**10 seconds later**
a vehicle was killed by Steve
a vehicle: omg stop camping u [censored] camping [censored]!!!1111one11
**15 seconds later**
a vehicle was killed by Joe
a vehicle: no f----ing way!! omg u haxor!11!1
**15 seconds later**
a vehicle was killed by Josh
a vehicle: omfg stop sniping!! im better than u!!!


Online gaming dictionary, entry #362:
"OMG WTF H4X!!!" -- 13 year olds screaming for mercy.

  • 06.13.2004 1:11 PM PDT
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Posted by: TalkingElmo
you know you do sound like one of those soar loser nOObs out there looking for an excuse for your lake of skill

Oh man, don't even get me started. HaloPC is chock full of these people. Every time you kill them, they start whining or complaining about stuff, and/or accusing you of cheating.

a vehicle was killed by Josh
a vehicle: omfg wtf!!! No f---ing way!
**10 seconds later**
a vehicle was killed by Steve
a vehicle: omg stop camping u [censored] camping [censored]!!!1111one11
**15 seconds later**
a vehicle was killed by Joe
a vehicle: no f----ing way!! omg u haxor!11!1
**15 seconds later**
a vehicle was killed by Josh
a vehicle: omfg stop sniping!! im better than u!!!


Online gaming dictionary, entry #362:
"OMG WTF H4X!!!" -- 13 year olds screaming for mercy.


Tru7h

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  • 06.13.2004 1:26 PM PDT
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hacks are possible in any code, it just takes time and the trouble of writing them. not all good players are hacking. usually it is the noob gamers that code hack for fun of messing up the game for others. or a dev that is pissed off he didnt get a big enough christmas bonus on his/her check. Cause destroying a machine from within and getting paid by the machine to do so.. is 1337

[Edited on 6/13/2004 5:20:32 PM]

  • 06.13.2004 5:20 PM PDT

You are failing to grasp the concept of server-authoritative netcode. Like I said, if you want to take it up with the developers themselves, the Gearbox forums are always open.

  • 06.13.2004 5:22 PM PDT
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Posted by: goweb
You are failing to grasp the concept of server-authoritative netcode. Like I said, if you want to take it up with the developers themselves, the Gearbox forums are always open.


Its a one way discussion. Lets let him live in a world of his own.

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  • 06.13.2004 6:05 PM PDT
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There comes a time in every thread where arguing is completely futile. I think now is that time. You're more than welcome to come discuss it on Gearbox's forums. We have many knowledgable people there, and many who write software for a living (myself included).

[Edited on 6/13/2004 9:12:17 PM]

  • 06.13.2004 9:09 PM PDT

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