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  • Subject: How do you feel about Time calling Bungie a Geek Ghetto?
Subject: How do you feel about Time calling Bungie a Geek Ghetto?

Posted by: Atomic Bunny007
Well , the whole antisocial thing burned me .

other than that he kinda calls anyone who plays halo geeks , however i do see you view , but he was kinda ... .well , cruel . Its not like he hurt my feelings , but i do not if maybe a video game raped his wife , or his father was murdered by one , but to me , In my opinion he was saying that halo is bad and all video games are bad .



Posted by: Snipeaz0ris
Not that anyone is going to read this post but heres my short 2cents. That article was not offensive in the least, it was objectively describing halo and the attached communities and ideas behind it; also discussing its possibility as a powerful entertainment franchise. The term ghetto was not your shallow slang term use of it heres a definition - A ghetto is an area where people from a specific racial or ethnic background live as a group in seclusion, voluntarily or involuntarily. Ghetto in this sense is just meant as a term for people who gather in one place <cough> BUNGIE.NET <cough> and that everyone who gathers here is common in the aspect of their fanhood of the game. This article is in no way attacking gamers, or bungie for that matter.

Argue against me, I'd love to see the opposite of my arguement.


It wasn't cruel, he was writing to an audience that was NOT the bungie OR the gamer community, he was writing for people outside of our circle, where "geek" "antisocial" are common stereotypical words associated with the word "Gamer" or "video games". Of course its going to burn you if you don't really understand what he is saying, he never said directly to us, or in any indirect way that we really are geeks or antisocial, just that is the common misunderstanding of us gamers. Thanks for reading :P

  • 09.04.2007 7:21 PM PDT

Formerly known as BASs13 and One Point Three

Posted by: Achronos
And now, the rest of the story.

People should remember what audience he was writing to. The above link is the same author talking on his blog.
I left a comment there, hopefully I explained how the community felt responsibly.

[Edited on 09.04.2007 7:23 PM PDT]

  • 09.04.2007 7:22 PM PDT

July 15, 2008... The day the timer stood still.

Times Magazine? I'll bet most of the people who read that article will just forget about it. If they have kids who are into it, then they'll understand more about the game, good for them. But I think a lot of people will just read the article as a, "Oh, that's interesting." And then they'll turn the page. Nothing to get -blam!- about.

  • 09.04.2007 7:25 PM PDT
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Posted by: evilcam
Gz, I'd kill the whole world for you




3-19-07

Posted by: Fuzzy OneThree
Posted by: Achronos
And now, the rest of the story.

People should remember what audience he was writing to. The above link is the same author talking on his blog.
I left a comment there, hopefully I explained how the community felt responsibly.


I really like that guy who told the writer to go kill himself. That really makes gamers look good as a whole.

Eh, I guess mature, non-idiot gamers are the minority.

-blam!-

  • 09.04.2007 7:30 PM PDT

Formerly known as BASs13 and One Point Three

Posted by: Gzalzi
Posted by: Fuzzy OneThree
Posted by: Achronos
And now, the rest of the story.

People should remember what audience he was writing to. The above link is the same author talking on his blog.
I left a comment there, hopefully I explained how the community felt responsibly.


I really like that guy who told the writer to go kill himself. That really makes gamers look good as a whole.

Eh, I guess mature, non-idiot gamers are the minority.

-blam!-
Haha. I wanted to retain any shard of dignity the gaming community had after his silly article. But that's what I should have said.

  • 09.04.2007 7:35 PM PDT
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Posted by: Snipeaz0ris
Not that anyone is going to read this post but heres my short 2cents. That article was not offensive in the least, it was objectively describing halo and the attached communities and ideas behind it; also discussing its possibility as a powerful entertainment franchise. The term ghetto was not your shallow slang term use of it heres a definition - A ghetto is an area where people from a specific racial or ethnic background live as a group in seclusion, voluntarily or involuntarily. Ghetto in this sense is just meant as a term for people who gather in one place <cough> BUNGIE.NET <cough> and that everyone who gathers here is common in the aspect of their fanhood of the game. This article is in no way attacking gamers, or bungie for that matter.

Argue against me, I'd love to see the opposite of my arguement.


Live in seculsion, we don't. Halo's everywhere!!! There's getting away from it. Bungie moves closer to world domination.....and i dont like them calling us "geeks" like some sort of outcasts, who turn to Halo because they have no friends. Im pretty sure alot of people here have succesful lives, and are fans of Halo as well. Can't those two things live in harmony?

  • 09.04.2007 7:40 PM PDT
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Posted by: Revenant0
You guys have to learn how to read things in the proper context, that article is not slander, was not negative, and was certainly not offensive to Bungie, Halo, or any of you.
I read it in the proper context just fine, thanks. Again, I am not saying that the article was meant to be offensive, I'm saying that it cast some negative light on the things I mentioned, which it did. It is simply how you want to interpret his word choice. The context, honestly, could go either way. But given how many times this has been said, and I'll say it again... Think about who the audience for that article is. It is informing an unknowing group of people of an anti-social, sociopathic, illegitimate community... all that based upon the fact that we post on a forum. A less legitimate form of media? How is that not negative? Or even true, for that matter.

I am not offended by the article, but the words do cast some negativity in small areas.

  • 09.04.2007 7:41 PM PDT

The article, outiside of the Halo 2 typo and this line "There is an invisible subculture in America. Those who belong to it love it with a lonely, alienated, unironic passion.", in my humble opinion is fairly accurate. And I think the line may be reflective of his own experience and feelings about the gaming community.

Offensive? Not really. The article just reminds me that the community and popularity of Halo in general is going to have some massive stretch marks after the 25th. The same as when Halo 2 came out, and for the Mac gamers in the Bungie community, the same as when the original Halo came out. Yea, it kinda of sucks when people who knocked you for playing the last game are now gushing over it and claiming that they've been there from the begining. I liked the fact that so many people were oblivious about Halo: CE, it made the experience seem more unique. Now, that is all out the window.

Halo 2 brought in a lot of the type-A super competetive personalities who wouldn't have been seen dead playing Halo a month before, and from the looks of things Halo 3 is going to bring a whole lot more. And as for the B.net community, it may be a bit of a geek ghetto but anyone who has played on Live knows that Match Making isn't. All we can do is let baby grow up and remind those Johhny come latley's(excuse the -blam!- fifties phrase), that they weren't on the beaches of Normandy, or of the Siltent Cartographer.

Or, we could welcome them and then prey on thier naivety and confusion. >)

[Edited on 09.05.2007 1:27 PM PDT]

  • 09.04.2007 7:54 PM PDT

Tri§10

p

[Edited on 09.04.2007 8:08 PM PDT]

  • 09.04.2007 8:08 PM PDT

Tri§10

I dont think his intended target audience matters. He should have known that if it said halo 3 on it, we were going to read it. Read it we did, a little insulted we are.

  • 09.04.2007 8:12 PM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

Visit us and check out our games at Sandswept.net!

~~Pardon Our Dust.~~

Sounds just like it's supposed to, considering the audience. ;)

  • 09.04.2007 8:25 PM PDT

Tri§10

AHHHRRRGGGG!!! lol

  • 09.04.2007 8:27 PM PDT
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If anything, Lev Grossman learned his lesson about writing articles involved with the gaming world.

  • 09.04.2007 9:12 PM PDT
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At least they named Marty's greatest accomplishment: In a past life, O'Donnell wrote the We Are Flintstones Kids vitamin jingle.

[Edited on 09.04.2007 9:18 PM PDT]

  • 09.04.2007 9:14 PM PDT
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Posted by: Dream053
But, as for holding a controller being constructive, who really cares? A lot of us have jobs, attend school, and are working toward constructive goals. Most hobbies are for fun, which I would say is "constructive" in itself.



You are Right , so right , I may stalk you .


Whaaa ? didn't this thread start in the H3 forum , was it moved ?

  • 09.04.2007 9:24 PM PDT
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Posted by: Snipeaz0ris
Posted by: Atomic Bunny007
Well , the whole antisocial thing burned me .

other than that he kinda calls anyone who plays halo geeks , however i do see you view , but he was kinda ... .well , cruel . Its not like he hurt my feelings , but i do not if maybe a video game raped his wife , or his father was murdered by one , but to me , In my opinion he was saying that halo is bad and all video games are bad .



Posted by: Snipeaz0ris
Not that anyone is going to read this post but heres my short 2cents. That article was not offensive in the least, it was objectively describing halo and the attached communities and ideas behind it; also discussing its possibility as a powerful entertainment franchise. The term ghetto was not your shallow slang term use of it heres a definition - A ghetto is an area where people from a specific racial or ethnic background live as a group in seclusion, voluntarily or involuntarily. Ghetto in this sense is just meant as a term for people who gather in one place <cough> BUNGIE.NET <cough> and that everyone who gathers here is common in the aspect of their fanhood of the game. This article is in no way attacking gamers, or bungie for that matter.

Argue against me, I'd love to see the opposite of my arguement.


It wasn't cruel, he was writing to an audience that was NOT the bungie OR the gamer community, he was writing for people outside of our circle, where "geek" "antisocial" are common stereotypical words associated with the word "Gamer" or "video games". Of course its going to burn you if you don't really understand what he is saying, he never said directly to us, or in any indirect way that we really are geeks or antisocial, just that is the common misunderstanding of us gamers. Thanks for reading :P


Are you the Author , J/K , i did not really take offense , however i think it sounded as if i did take offense , i do think he is over his head stereotyping us , but he one one author , and it does bug me , but does not hurt my feelings , :/


P.S. When is bungie gonna make MS put "bungie" in spell check .
;

  • 09.04.2007 9:32 PM PDT
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I think the "personal shots" are more funny than anything. Do I think it was purposeful? Yeah. But I'm sure it helped them sell more magazines.

After all. That's their goal.

But I guess I just don't care if someone wants to stereotype me as anti-social or sociopathic. Because I know I'm not. Schoolyard behavior is old people....I would hope most of you don't take offense to it.

[Edited on 09.04.2007 10:56 PM PDT]

  • 09.04.2007 10:55 PM PDT

well seeing how this all played out

i am left not knowing how i really feal

when i read it i was really pissed but now with all the added info and blog and opinions i don't know how to take it

whatever halo 3 in less than 3 weeks is all that matters now

go bungie go halo 3 go gamers

  • 09.04.2007 11:00 PM PDT

Oooh, you are so nosy...

Here
Here...
and here

Don't worry, you guys are not the only ones pissed.

  • 09.05.2007 1:34 AM PDT
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Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

I think that it is important to note that the author seems to go to great lengths to show that the Bungie community is not antisocial, is not lonely, and not sociopathic. But I have to tell you that this piece does not have the tone of a person trying to convince people about how great the hardcore gaming community is. Instead, it feeds the stereotypes of obsessive computer nerds and implores Bungie and its fans to help hardcore, in-depth gaming submit itself to the mainstream. And despite his blog or his personal beliefs, his tone is unmistakeable -- hardcore gamers (including Bungie employees) are kind of weird and seclusive, and should change their ways to embrace the mainstream.

This tone is easily identifiable, and regrettably unsupported by any evidence whatsoever. Sadly, the article makes all of these assertions without citing a single source for support. The author himself is not an anthropologist or a sociologist, and thus his own observations and opinions do not merit expert treatment. As an editorial, this piece is fine. As supposed "journalism," it is woefully inadequate.

But anyway, for those of you expressing shock and disbelief at how anyone reading this article could be offended, try to expand your mind and allow me to enlighten you.

First, the author begins his piece by calling hardcore gamers "lonely" and "alienated." He then -- without citing any support for his assertions -- proceeds to draw a series of lines between "non-gamers" and "gamers." The lines the author draws are not meant to cause (or at least do not have the effect of causing) "non-gamers" reading the Time article to realize, "Hey, we're not so different after all." Nay, instead, the author's piece seems meant to accentuate (or at least has the effect of accentuating) the differences between the two.

Unlike the author, I cite a virtual cornucopia of examples:

When nongamers look at the Master Chief's helmet, they see a forbidding, anonymous mask. But when gamers look at it, they see a mirror. They see themselves.There's a foreign-legion quality to it, as if the company had been created as a refuge for smart people who wouldn't or couldn't fit into more conventional professions.It's doubtful that many people reading this could say exactly, or even approximately, what the Halo games are about. In return, they give Halo most of their waking hours, which vastly outnumber their sleeping ones. For the past few months, shifts at Bungie have run from 6 in the morning till 2 in the morning. One manager confessed that he was so strung out on caffeine, he had to drink a Diet Coke just so he could kill his cravings enough to fall asleep. . . . "We actually are insane," the engineer says . . . "Literally. We ought to be locked up."This devotion is fueled by a belief, not shared by the world at large, that video games are an art form with genuine emotional meaning and that Halo 3 will be the premier example of that art. There's an opportunity beyond video games, too, for Halo to break out of the ghetto and become a mainstream, mass-market, multimedia entertainment property.They don't need to legitimize Halo by associating it with other, more respectable media.They're happy in their invisible geek ghetto.It may be time for the Master Chief to come in from the cold and join the party, with the popular kids.

Thus, to those of you who still don't believe that this article might offend a gamer, allow me to draw some basic conclusions for you, all of which may be supported by drawing upon the above-quoted excerpts:

* According to the author, gamers are under the delusion that they are futuristic super-soldiers. Non-gamers, of course, simply see some dude with a helmet.

* According to the author, Halo fans don't read Time Magazine.

* According to the author, hardcore gamers (under the guise of Bungie employees) are incapable of interacting with regular people in a normal office environment.

* According to the author, hardcore gamers (under the guise of Bungie employees) are obsessive to the point where they become strung out and addicted to stimulants.

* According to the author, hardcore gamers (under the guise of Bungie employees) are self-admittedly insane to the point where they should be locked up.

* According to the author, hardcore gamers are under delusions about the artistry of video gaming; delusions which, of course, are clearly not true to normal people.

* According to the author, Halo is ghetto. (Sorry, but the connotations of this word are undeniable. Quote the dictionary all you want, but we all know the mental image you get when someone says the word "ghetto." Keep the audience in mind, indeed.)

* According to the author, Halo fans are out of the mainstream.

* According to the author, Video games are not "respectable."

* According to the author, Halo fans are geeks. (Again, the connotations of the word are undeniably negative)

* According to the author, Halo fans are not popular kids, but they could be if they would only submit themselves to the mainstream. (whatever that means)

You are, of course, free to draw your own conclusions about what the author is saying here. But the above conclusions are certainly possible to the biased or predisposed reader. Moreover, I doubt that you could successfully show that the author is trying to convince his audience that hardcore gamers are normal people -- students, athletes, musicians, doctors, mechanics, lawyers, carpenters, scientists, and so on -- who are just really into gaming. Yet it is easy to show how a non-gamer (the purported "audience") might see this article as saying "Here is the rationale behind hardcore gamers' devotion. Lol aren't they weird? Why won't they just be more NORMAL?"

Again, the way you read this article is completely up to you. But it is self-evident that the article could be read in a negative light by the author's so-called "non-gamer" audience. What's worse is that the author, throughout his piece, makes assumptions and assertions about the hardcore gaming/Bungie/Halo community that are completely unsupported by anything resembling a fact or source.

In conclusion, should you let this article roll off your back without taking offense? Absolutely, if possible. I am not personally offended, and neither are many of the posters in this thread.

But to say things like "there's nothing offensive in the article," "the article is not negative," or that somehow we should ignore or forgive the article's tone and implications because we are not the intended audience is both naive and wrong.


edited for minor typos

[Edited on 09.05.2007 2:42 AM PDT]

  • 09.05.2007 2:35 AM PDT

I see nothing derogatory or offensive in that article.

  • 09.05.2007 4:55 AM PDT

etc etc/glaringly obvious/and so on, and such <=Not redundant!
Posted by: Cr4ne Style
Taxes do nothing to affect the share of wealth, since taxes are only applied to income.

So that's not even a part of the conversation at all, so it's pointless talking about it....

"for a "best" moral to exist, there must exist the "best" moral base. If the base of morality varies from location to location, culture to culture...then there can't be an absolute moral..

i cannot believe that this piece is drawing any of the attention that you guys are giving it. i read the entire article days ago when the magazine was delivered to my house, and NONE of the material is pejorative toward bungie. there are claims made about how video games, including halo, have huge fan bases yet fail to be noticed by the mainstream, and they talk about the fact that bungie works effortlessly to make halo like great art, even though few people consider video games art. the theme of the article is that bungie is kicking butt at making excellent games and that the fans and the game are isolated from mass public acceptance. is any of this false? how is any of this negative?

  • 09.05.2007 5:18 AM PDT

Maybe the article might bring us some new folks that would like to convert over to geek.
Come on in folks, Join the Bungie Army today ! You can be antisocial with us... errr.... say wha ? Whateve, come on in.
Be the geek you always wanted to be !

[Edited on 09.06.2007 5:15 AM PDT]

  • 09.05.2007 5:26 AM PDT
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Grrr. That one guy who posted in the blog..."Church" I believe his name was, really pissed me off. He called Halo a "dumbed down marathon" and how you slowly find out that you are not human. WTF does that mean? Either way the author was writing to a specific audience. Most people that subscribe to Time magazine are probably not fans of Halo or much less gamers. I could careless about any snippy person who reads Time and thinks that any of us are ghetto geeks (lawlz wtf is a ghetto geek?) or that we are beneth them in any way.

  • 09.05.2007 6:23 AM PDT
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HA ha ha ha ha ha, the sheer stupidity of that guy and his absolute inabilty to empathise makes me laugh. I say leave him be, if he really is that stupid and arrogant it'll only be his downfall. Stop reading now

[Edited on 09.05.2007 7:09 AM PDT]

  • 09.05.2007 7:05 AM PDT