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This topic has moved here: Subject: How do you feel about Time calling Bungie a Geek Ghetto?
  • Subject: How do you feel about Time calling Bungie a Geek Ghetto?
Subject: How do you feel about Time calling Bungie a Geek Ghetto?

If you don't got it, you want it. If you got it, you want more of it. Of course if you don't know what it is, it's hard to get any in the first place.

I thought it was a very positive article, and you guys are just getting in a huff over nothing.

  • 09.05.2007 8:34 AM PDT

Ach! Was ist los?

Time is just another of those big, entrenched, thoroughly behind-the-times institutes which neither understand us nor want to understand us.

To paraphrase Feynman, what do we care what other people think?

  • 09.05.2007 8:46 AM PDT

RaTiOnAl AnArChY

Check out the Woodshop!

Wow, this article astounds me. It's contradictory to its self. The plain words are telling us that we should accept, and be accepted into mainstream, but his connoctations point out the reasons we aren't, and shouldn't. I think that those of you that are offended should take solice in the fact that the author has just tarnished his own reputation, and intelligent readers will have even less repsect for a magazine that has been known to be biased, and unfounded in it's articles. This, as well as most of what Time publishes, is in my opinion irresposible jounalism, for the following reasons

- use of sensitive words and phrases in frivilous manners will alienate the readers

- gaming, and halo in particular are so main stream now, and so popular and well known, I think that the readers that are saying "huh? I like games" will actually make up the majority of the readers, intended audience aside

- I think it is obvious to people that aren't gamers, that the industry/subculture is alive, well and growing, and they will also think the author an idiot.

- his stated intention isn't even coherently kept

- the positive remarks he makes are veiled in opinionated jargon, and the average reader (who scans for content, rather than reading for true understanding of the point) will have the entirely wrong impression of what was said. This thread is excellent evidence of that.

In the end, whether you liked the article or not, it is good for us, and Bungie. Those who didn't know about the game, and the growing industry (the ones under rocks) now have the names "Bungie" and "Halo" in their minds, and may have a more positive outlook on it. If they still have a negative attitude, then nothing has been hurt, because that is likely the attitude they had before reading the article. People who know all about the games, will do what we are doing now, and it won't hurt, might even help some. This article has managed to bring more publicity to us, and to our favorite game maker. That is a good thing, because even if the light shed is negative, it brings us into the attention of those who may not have paid us mind previously. This will only lend to more acceptance of the gaming community in the end.

This is also a wonderful sign of the growth of our community. Like the article or not, we are apparently important enough for a major publication to take notice. Please, if you post your opinions in public places concerning this article, be above the jounalists, be responsible. You represent the gaming community, and it behooves us to respond intelligently, and with measured thought. If we do otherwise, we will only solidify the negative opinions held by some.

  • 09.05.2007 10:38 AM PDT
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Talk to the Soul | ~B.B. | Know Your Duardo |  | Hero | ISFJ | 77135 | 94371

"It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me."

Posted by: BobBQ
Time is just another of those big, entrenched, thoroughly behind-the-times institutes which neither understand us nor want to understand us.

To paraphrase Feynman, what do we care what other people think?

HOLY CRAP! BobBQ IS BACK!

I agree with your post. Why should we care what they think?

  • 09.05.2007 10:42 AM PDT

"Cotton thwaps him with the Gravity Hammer, Frankie flies through the air, blood splattering from his corpse, his head snapping back on the ceiling, leaving a bloody imprint on a light fixture and then his body skitters into a gravity lift and is boosted up into the Yellow room."
i love Bungie.

Posted by: tris10335
I'm not irate or anything i just think that he should have gotten his facts straight and maybe watched his wording a little more carefully. I dont see how someone who knows little to nothing and probably had to do google searches about the story line to write his little article can talk down on something as big and as special as the bungie/halo community.


it seems to me that he probably didn't think that anyone from the community would read the article

"It may be time for the Master Chief to come in from the cold and join the party, with the popular kids"....WOW... i personally like MC the way he is...lolz

[Edited on 09.05.2007 11:06 AM PDT]

  • 09.05.2007 10:59 AM PDT
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The Blog Lev wrote is getting pretty hot. I find myself checking it more than Bungie.net....j/k o.O

  • 09.05.2007 11:16 AM PDT

Strange evolution how people have come to believe
That we are it's greatest achievement
We're barely, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves

Posted by: Kill me 2128
I like how they describe Cortona.
Much of the action consists of the Master Chief shooting alien antagonists while swapping Eastwoodian one-liners with his sidekick, a computer program named Cortana who appears as a sexy hologram.

LOL, apparently he didnt know that AI's create their own self image. And he's calling us geeks........

oh wait.....


dammit!

  • 09.05.2007 11:25 AM PDT

In my mind, she takes something from Hasley for her self image. Do I have that right... idk.

Ha,ha.. wait... whoops, did I just say that. Grrr damn it, I suck.
Screw it, I'm buying pocket protectors in bulk from now on.

  • 09.05.2007 11:37 AM PDT
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Thats there opinion. Gamers everywhere have found a good home, that is the truth.
Calling it a Ghetto was wrong, thinking that geeks are bad is wrong too.

They made a harsh statment based on the teenagers at home getting
pwn3d and cussing about it.

Time is not dolts but by no means is their word the law.

  • 09.05.2007 11:37 AM PDT
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Posted by: SP4RT4N3
Thats there opinion. Gamers everywhere have found a good home, that is the truth.
Calling it a Ghetto was wrong, thinking that geeks are bad is wrong too.

They made a harsh statment based on the teenagers at home getting
pwn3d and cussing about it.

Time is not dolts but by no means is their word the law.


Time's only mistake was publishing the story. Lev Grossman's Article is the mistake.
If I can speak for the majority, Time's word of course is not law.

Most people here and on Lev's blog, are arguing if Gaming and Halo are even mainstream. According to Lev, we are underground. Thats just nonsense. If Lev Grossman was trying to show the outside world what its like inside gaming, he made a huge mistake. First of all, gaming isn't something you need a members only card to get in. Anyone can be a gamer. Most people are gaming or know what its like (the parents). Second, he may have been trying to shed light on gaming, but the way he described us was false. Yes, I am guessing that some gamers are/were antisocial. I have found that as of recent, most people my age game socially, not locked up in an attic or basement for all eternity. LAN parties and Live bring that out. All in all, i hardly believe Lev had a good handle on the gaming world.

All this attention may put him in the spotlight though. O.o

  • 09.05.2007 12:04 PM PDT

Strange evolution how people have come to believe
That we are it's greatest achievement
We're barely, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves

Well, I might as well add my two cents and a saying from my youth......


..something about sticks and stones.

  • 09.05.2007 12:07 PM PDT
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I have to agree with WF Geppetto that most people won't read the article thouroughly enough or with enough comprehension to get the undelrying menaing out of it. This thread and others is proof of that. People will usually read something from their own point of view and believe that what they understood from it is right no matter what someone else tells them. The previous page has a post from "x Foman123 x" that details how someon can interpret many of the statements in the article with a negative connotation. His/her? comment was well written and I agree that the interpretation of the article is up to the reader.

On the other hand, I thought the line, "They're happy in their invisible geek ghetto." was very funny. It related directly to previous points he had made in the article. Think about it. Bungie is in an unmarked building in a leafy suburb of Seattle.
Invisible: Unmarked building
Geek: Washington State is home to Microsoft and lots of other tech companies. How can anyone be geekier than Bill Gates?
Ghetto: A suburb is a ghetto to a highly paid tech worker. It's a joke for rich people. Not the nicest joke, but a joke all the same.

The only line that I thought he may have mis-worded was the respectable media. But then I thought about it some more. What have video games done in the world to gain a respectful status? Books and text have existed for centuries and has changed the way we live many times over. Radio and television brought about tremedous change in the last century. The internet is just barely, in terms of greater history, beginning to alter the way information is disseminated. Video games have not had any history alternating, improving, denigrating effects to deserve to be placed in the same light as other media. Not yet anyway.

  • 09.05.2007 12:25 PM PDT

Strange evolution how people have come to believe
That we are it's greatest achievement
We're barely, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves

Posted by: StresssedOutDad
The previous page has a post from "x Foman123 x" that details how someon can interpret many of the statements in the article with a negative connotation. His/her? comment was well written and I agree that the interpretation of the article is up to the reader.

xFoman123x is a woman. Her name is supposed to be a play on words, as in faux man. =)

  • 09.05.2007 12:39 PM PDT
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Destinypedia - The Wiki for Bungie's Destiny
Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: twinkiemaker
Posted by: StresssedOutDad
The previous page has a post from "x Foman123 x" that details how someon can interpret many of the statements in the article with a negative connotation. His/her? comment was well written and I agree that the interpretation of the article is up to the reader.

xFoman123x is a woman. Her name is supposed to be a play on words, as in faux man. =)
No u

  • 09.05.2007 12:50 PM PDT
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Posted by: StresssedOutDad
I have to agree with WF Geppetto that most people won't read the article thouroughly enough or with enough comprehension to get the undelrying menaing out of it. This thread and others is proof of that. People will usually read something from their own point of view and believe that what they understood from it is right no matter what someone else tells them. The previous page has a post from "x Foman123 x" that details how someon can interpret many of the statements in the article with a negative connotation. His/her? comment was well written and I agree that the interpretation of the article is up to the reader.

On the other hand, I thought the line, "They're happy in their invisible geek ghetto." was very funny. It related directly to previous points he had made in the article. Think about it. Bungie is in an unmarked building in a leafy suburb of Seattle.
Invisible: Unmarked building
Geek: Washington State is home to Microsoft and lots of other tech companies. How can anyone be geekier than Bill Gates?
Ghetto: A suburb is a ghetto to a highly paid tech worker. It's a joke for rich people. Not the nicest joke, but a joke all the same.

The only line that I thought he may have mis-worded was the respectable media. But then I thought about it some more. What have video games done in the world to gain a respectful status? Books and text have existed for centuries and has changed the way we live many times over. Radio and television brought about tremedous change in the last century. The internet is just barely, in terms of greater history, beginning to alter the way information is disseminated. Video games have not had any history alternating, improving, denigrating effects to deserve to be placed in the same light as other media. Not yet anyway.

Video Game Benifits

Besides those benefits I'd say AI in video games has made an impact on Robotics, Computer Graphics and general Computer Science related to AI.

Whats your definition of history altering media?

[Edited on 09.05.2007 12:58 PM PDT]

  • 09.05.2007 12:55 PM PDT

etc etc/glaringly obvious/and so on, and such <=Not redundant!
Posted by: Cr4ne Style
Taxes do nothing to affect the share of wealth, since taxes are only applied to income.

So that's not even a part of the conversation at all, so it's pointless talking about it....

"for a "best" moral to exist, there must exist the "best" moral base. If the base of morality varies from location to location, culture to culture...then there can't be an absolute moral..

Posted by: Thing1
Besides those benefits I'd say AI in video games has made an impact on Robotics, Computer Graphics and general Computer Science related to AI


really? why? i am not in the video game industry, but i am acquinted with strong AI research, and as far as i can gather, video games do not have any semblence of the complexity of AI projects from 10 years ago, let alone from today. the AI in video games is getting better, but it is still just gigantic batches of conditional statements, so it is technically not strong AI. there is not adaptation at all, just different instantiations of a finite set of options.

AI in video games is so far behind what takes place in countless labs around the world the use of the term 'AI' is inappropriate. the difference of degree between AI in scientific settings and video games is so great that they are distinct realms.

  • 09.05.2007 1:38 PM PDT

Ach! Was ist los?

Posted by: Duardo
HOLY CRAP! BobBQ IS BACK!

Who is the tall dark stranger theeere?
The one with the gun and the frosty glaaare?
The one with a scalp of Blue Jaguar's haaair?
Psy-cho Bob, psycho Bob, psycho Booob!

He's a durn good moood!
Lays down the laaaw!
Grabs spammers 'n' eats 'em raaaw!
Psycho Booob!

  • 09.05.2007 1:49 PM PDT
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Posted by: sesquipadelian
Posted by: Thing1
Besides those benefits I'd say AI in video games has made an impact on Robotics, Computer Graphics and general Computer Science related to AI


really? why? i am not in the video game industry, but i am acquinted with strong AI research, and as far as i can gather, video games do not have any semblence of the complexity of AI projects from 10 years ago, let alone from today. the AI in video games is getting better, but it is still just gigantic batches of conditional statements, so it is technically not strong AI. there is not adaptation at all, just different instantiations of a finite set of options.

AI in video games is so far behind what takes place in countless labs around the world the use of the term 'AI' is inappropriate. the difference of degree between AI in scientific settings and video games is so great that they are distinct realms.


I'd love to debate this, but don't you think it's a little off topic? I was straying their myself with replying to StressedOutDad, but I think An AI discussion would have to be debated elsewhere via PM.

Edit:Forgot to quote o.O

[Edited on 09.05.2007 2:08 PM PDT]

  • 09.05.2007 2:06 PM PDT
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Do you have what it takes to become a ninja? Join Ninja Academy
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KOTOR

Posted by: tris10335
I was kind of surprised to find that time magazine had published an article about halo 3, but then when i read it i got a little upset. I am in no means antisocial and i dont think that all people who play video games are. They pretty much called the whole gaming community a bunch of loner geeks that have nothing better to do with their lives. I think we should all band together and do something about this injustice!


The world hates what it can not understand.

  • 09.05.2007 2:32 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: twinkiemaker
Posted by: StresssedOutDad
The previous page has a post from "x Foman123 x" that details how someon can interpret many of the statements in the article with a negative connotation. His/her? comment was well written and I agree that the interpretation of the article is up to the reader.

xFoman123x is a woman. Her name is supposed to be a play on words, as in faux man. =)


Totally, I saw a picture of her in Vegas...she was hawt!

~B.B.

  • 09.05.2007 2:44 PM PDT
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"Not that the Bungies care. They don't need to legitimize Halo by associating it with other, more respectable media. They sell enough units and make enough money. They're happy in their invisible geek ghetto. But that's the logic of the marketplace: it can't leave subcultures alone; it has to turn them into cultures. It may be time for the Master Chief to come in from the cold and join the party, with the popular kids. Just don't expect him to take off his helmet."

Come in and join the party with the popular kids? What a -blam!- Dbag...

  • 09.05.2007 2:52 PM PDT

RaTiOnAl AnArChY

Check out the Woodshop!

Rather than fill this post with quotes, I'll just say this is mostly in response to StressedOutDad. Nice post, and you make excellent points that I agree with, but I'd like to defend games in response to your question of what they have done for us. In the military, and medical fields, there have been many advances that are inplemented in much the same fashion as video games. Control of unmanned craft is only one example from the military. A good example in the medical industry would be orthoscopic surgery. I could list more, but this is slightly off topic. The robotics industry has been aided by advances in gaming, and that has been stated on this page. The military, and higher levels of the medical field actually look for gamers among their ranks, because it has been proven that people with gaming experience are much more talented, and well suited for operating equipment necessary for certain operations. It only makes sense, when a doctor is doing heart surgery with a scope, and a mechanical toolset, I would prefer that he be a gamer. The finesse required for such operations is largely learned from practice, and gamers have a distinct edge where this is concerned. There have been many studies that prove it, but I'm not going to take the time to look them up. If you don't believe me, check it out before you dispute me.

  • 09.05.2007 4:11 PM PDT
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Um....

I taught it rocked. Showed my dad, who doesn't like "violent" games like Halo.

  • 09.05.2007 4:38 PM PDT

I hate everything, but it's not my fault.

I do not understand what everyone is getting so upset about. Really, it's only offensive if you only read the bolded sections that angry bloggers yelled about.

  • 09.05.2007 4:50 PM PDT