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Subject: The Shotgun: Inconsistencies Proven
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Alright, for those that still think the shotgun is fine, I did a little test. I'll tell you how to replicate this test at home so you can see for yourself.

Here's what I did. I started a Slayer match on Lockout, shotguns only. Then I had a player stand still, not moving at all. I then walked up to that player, looked at me feet, and walked backwards as slow as possible counting my paces.

After I counted twenty paces for my first test, I fired a single shot, let his shields recharge, then repeated it nine more times. I then moved closer.

I was aiming at his upper chest/lower chin/ head at 20, 15 and 10 paces (they all fit in the reticle). I was aiming at his head at 5 and 2.5 paces.

Here are the results of my test. The %'s are representing the ammount of shields that we depleted by my shot.

Twenty Paces
1. 25%
2. 0%
3. 10%
4. 50%
5. 0%
6. 25%
7. 0%
8. 0%
9. 0%
10. 0%

Wow, that's a whole lot of zeros to toss that friggin' 50% in there... =\

Fifteen Paces
1. 0%
2. 30%
3. 0%
4. 10%
5. 0%
6. 75%
7. 30%
8. 50%
9. 0%
10. 10%

Wow, again way too many 0%/10%'s to have a 50% and even a 75%!

Ten Paces
1. 50%
2. 75%
3. 90%
4. 25%
5. 50%
6. 25%
7. 90%
8. 50%
9. 50%
10. 90%

This is nearly the worst you will see. Not that a range of 25% - 90% is good. =|

Five Paces
1. 100% (shields depleted)
2. 90%
3. 100%
4. 100%
5. 75%
6. 100%
7. 100%
8. Death
9. 90%
10. 75%

Wow, isn't that nice to know. If you and another guy are running at eachother and both fire at 5 paces, you could do 75% damage on him... and he could kill you.

Two and a half Paces
1. Death
2. Death
3. Death
4. Death
5. Death
6. Death
7. 50%
8. Death
9. 100%
10. Death

What!?! This is total crap. 8 out of 10 times was death... but a 50%! :O


Also, shoot a wall once. You'll notice that sometimes it shoots 5 pellets, sometimes 9 or 6... 7. =\

This is crap. Fix it Bungie!

  • 12.02.2004 11:42 AM PDT
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Have you ever shot a shotgun before? They are not consistant. Anytime you have pellets fly out at random you are not going to consistently get the exact same result. deal with it and move on

  • 12.02.2004 11:44 AM PDT
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Fix it Bungie.

[/I have spoken]

  • 12.02.2004 11:46 AM PDT
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ive also noticed how unlucky i am with the shotgunwhen you shoot you can hear the shot, and so many times my shot has been before theirs, yet i always die. maybe i just suck though....

  • 12.02.2004 11:48 AM PDT
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Have you ever shot a shotgun before? They are not consistant.

Yes, I have. They are much more consistant that the Halo 2 shotgun. No to mention on the LE DVD, the animators take a trip to a farm to see guns in action. Watch the guy shooting the shotgun for them. He's quite a ways away, but all the pellets are hitting in a close, uniform pattern.

I can hit a Squirrel.up in a tree 30 yards above me, but I can't hit a 7 foot Spartan at 5 paces.

Something's not right.

  • 12.02.2004 11:52 AM PDT
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The inconsistencies are caused by the fact that a shotguns "spread" (the pattern in which the shot comes out) are inconsistant in real life. If you want to use a shotgun, remember that it is a completely owning weapon at point blank or very close range, not 20 paces. I think it's in part a balance issue, but i must admit, Bungie gave the Chief very sucky shotguns, b/c even shotguns used by HUNTERS today can maintain accuracy for a longer distance. I wouldn't mind if the shotgun were made a slightly longer close range weapon to contend w/the plasma sword. That would help since there is only one plasma sword in each map.

[Edited on 12/2/2004 12:01:36 PM]

  • 12.02.2004 11:56 AM PDT
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wow, thats pretty good research. good job with that, yes i know that the shot gun in halo 2 is crap but i think the best way to fix it, would be to have the shotgun shoot metal slugs instead of spread shot.... but that might make the shotgun the cheapest thing in halo 2. but it would still be fun huh.... ya so bungie you should fix this crappy shotgun problem....

  • 12.02.2004 11:58 AM PDT
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The pump action shotty in CS is a lot more realistic. If shotguns were so innacurate, people wouldn't use them for clay pigeon shooting.

  • 12.02.2004 12:00 PM PDT
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Posted by: TheVinegru
The pump action shotty in CS is a lot more realistic. If shotguns were so innacurate, people wouldn't use them for clay pigeon shooting.


Very true.....

  • 12.02.2004 12:02 PM PDT
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I don't think that "realism" should be a factor in how much damage the shotgun does at given times. I want to know that I died b/c the other player pulled the trigger first or had better aim, not b/c I got the short end of the random "realism" factor. Secondly, realism is a hard sell in a game about a cyborg fighting aliens on "ring worlds." I would be interested in seeing results of this same test on all guns, although I'm sure somone would back up inconsistent results for the plasma weapons with "that's how they work in real life..."

  • 12.02.2004 12:03 PM PDT
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Does anyone have an idea of what would make the shotgun better in 2552?

I'm thinking it would use alot more projectiles than the H2 shotguns, with a very even spread each time, you'd think that if theyre still using them after 500 years they would have progressed instead of degressed, as the shotgun in halo 2 has.

Shooting at someone with H2's shotgun from any reasonable distance is about as useful as throwing a handful of rocks at them.

Hmmm... Since i call shotgun bullets "cupcakes" ("I've got cupcakes!") mabe it should fire a bunch (approximately a baker's dozen) of cupcakes at the target, killing them with sweetness and shredding they're insides with unhealthy dieting habits.

It would work better than the H2 shotgun...

[Edited on 12/2/2004 12:10:14 PM]

  • 12.02.2004 12:06 PM PDT

Nice research, try posting it in the Halo 2 forums, New Mombasa.

You might have more luck there.

  • 12.02.2004 12:07 PM PDT

- Mike

Ive noticed this too. The shotgun wont kill if you are standing right next to them, but will if your far away... It pisses me off. Whats the deal.

  • 12.02.2004 12:10 PM PDT
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Somebody post this in Zanzibar, that's where it needs to be.

  • 12.02.2004 12:14 PM PDT
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its not about realism guys, its about balance, the shotty owns at close range, but unlike the sword, you can hit from a relatively long distance if you want to
and you people saying the shotty sucks.. what the hell are you smoking? If anything its almost too strong

the shotty on midship is almost unstoppable

  • 12.02.2004 12:16 PM PDT
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I came to the same conclusions before (didn't go into as much depth). I lost interest in the shotgun when at a realativly close range shooting a still target, the target's shields regenerate faster than you can shoot (no suprise with all those zeros and low % damages). This whole "balance" thing is pretty retarded. How about different weapons having advantages where they should have advantages. The "Balance" issue needs to be solved by the players (take cover, keep your distance, use grenades defensively etc.)

  • 12.02.2004 12:22 PM PDT
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Posted by: Baltar
you can hit from a relatively long distance if you want to


What are you smoking? That's not even close to true.

  • 12.02.2004 12:25 PM PDT

You all just suck. I will own anybody on a small map with the shotty. First of all to use the shotty you have to do one very important thing, Not Suck. I have no beef with the shotty in Halo 2, I think it kicks a$$. Maybe you are the inconsistency in the shottys performance.

  • 12.02.2004 3:34 PM PDT
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the shotgun is....all around a worse weapon than the plasma sword...currently..that is. There should be no "all around bad" weapons.

  • 12.02.2004 3:50 PM PDT
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yeah, i havent had much luck with the shotgun on Halo 2...

  • 12.02.2004 3:51 PM PDT
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Do all of you honestly think that one inconsistent shot from a shotgun in a multiplayer match will really make all that much of a difference? If a person kills you with a battle rifle from medium-long range and you have your trusty boomstick, are you really going to think that you had the better chances? There are other guns in Halo 2 you know...

In all honesty, I believe that the inconsistencies (if there are any) add to the game more than anything else. As mentioned above, each shotgun shell is unique, therefore firing more bb's, less bb's, in a wider range, or in a shorter range or whatever than the "average" shell.

My point - many of us love Halo. Most of us play Halo. A few "bad" shells in multiplayer won't make all that much of a difference in the long run. However, I do give you some respect for actually noticing something such as this inconsistency.

-Necro

  • 12.02.2004 3:54 PM PDT
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You saw there were plenty of BR hate threads already out so you picked the shotgun to whine about?

  • 12.02.2004 3:55 PM PDT
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Posted by: TheVinegru
The pump action shotty in CS is a lot more realistic. If shotguns were so innacurate, people wouldn't use them for clay pigeon shooting.


HELL YEAH! M3 from Counter-strike is bad ass!

I think the halo2 shottie is fine for halo2: its a good "close quarters" weapon, peroid. It Shouldn't be your mainstay. As soon as an opponent identifies your shottie, he is going to back off, and deplete your sheilds..... better have a plasma pistol handy, or better yet, a rifle.

  • 12.02.2004 4:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: Thom Jolly
Posted by: TheVinegru
The pump action shotty in CS is a lot more realistic. If shotguns were so innacurate, people wouldn't use them for clay pigeon shooting.


HELL YEAH! M3 from Counter-strike is bad ass!

I think the halo2 shottie is fine for halo2: its a good "close quarters" weapon, peroid. It Shouldn't be your mainstay. As soon as an opponent identifies your shottie, he is going to back off, and deplete your sheilds..... better have a plasma pistol handy, or better yet, a rifle.


First of all, nothing in CS is realistic. Secondly, that mod sucks. Now for the real post...

I knew something was wrong with the Halo 2 shotgun, now it's comfirmed. Bring back the first one as a counter to the sword. If you were quick you could kill them as they lunge at you.

  • 12.02.2004 4:17 PM PDT

Posted by: Fireborn2045
Alright, for those that still think the shotgun is fine, I did a little test. I'll tell you how to replicate this test at home so you can see for yourself.

Here's what I did. I started a Slayer match on Lockout, shotguns only. Then I had a player stand still, not moving at all. I then walked up to that player, looked at me feet, and walked backwards as slow as possible counting my paces.

After I counted twenty paces for my first test, I fired a single shot, let his shields recharge, then repeated it nine more times. I then moved closer.

I was aiming at his upper chest/lower chin/ head at 20, 15 and 10 paces (they all fit in the reticle). I was aiming at his head at 5 and 2.5 paces.

Here are the results of my test. The %'s are representing the ammount of shields that we depleted by my shot.

Twenty Paces
1. 25%
2. 0%
3. 10%
4. 50%
5. 0%
6. 25%
7. 0%
8. 0%
9. 0%
10. 0%

Wow, that's a whole lot of zeros to toss that friggin' 50% in there... =\

Fifteen Paces
1. 0%
2. 30%
3. 0%
4. 10%
5. 0%
6. 75%
7. 30%
8. 50%
9. 0%
10. 10%

Wow, again way too many 0%/10%'s to have a 50% and even a 75%!

Ten Paces
1. 50%
2. 75%
3. 90%
4. 25%
5. 50%
6. 25%
7. 90%
8. 50%
9. 50%
10. 90%

This is nearly the worst you will see. Not that a range of 25% - 90% is good. =|

Five Paces
1. 100% (shields depleted)
2. 90%
3. 100%
4. 100%
5. 75%
6. 100%
7. 100%
8. Death
9. 90%
10. 75%

Wow, isn't that nice to know. If you and another guy are running at eachother and both fire at 5 paces, you could do 75% damage on him... and he could kill you.

Two and a half Paces
1. Death
2. Death
3. Death
4. Death
5. Death
6. Death
7. 50%
8. Death
9. 100%
10. Death

What!?! This is total crap. 8 out of 10 times was death... but a 50%! :O


Also, shoot a wall once. You'll notice that sometimes it shoots 5 pellets, sometimes 9 or 6... 7. =\

This is crap. Fix it Bungie!



Come on dude shotgun shells are never consistant. quit winning just becuase you suck with a shotgun

  • 12.02.2004 4:18 PM PDT

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