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Subject: The 1 thing Bungie Online is missing
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Posted by: Achronos
Global leaderboards are deliberately omitted - they aren't really relevant given our incredibly high population.


Also a good point, A high population would pretty much make it stupid to have 1 person better than a million other people. It would cause jealousy, and in turn make people quit because they can't 1) cheat their way to the top or 2) legitely get to number one either way leaderboards would make it sensless and halo 3 would lose people off of it, in turn gain cheaters who have yet to remember why the cheat or for what purpose they want to waste money/time on proving who the better cheater is.

  • 10.16.2007 1:29 AM PDT
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I have a suggestion regarding a global 'leaderboard':
Percentage brackets. Top 1%, 2%,,5%, 10%, 15% and 25%. Anybody lower than 25% would just show 'not listed'.
This would be listed in a player's stats, rather than as a board.

  • 10.16.2007 1:37 AM PDT
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Cheaters are very much a Halo phenomenon and although that theyre probably going to be a reality in Halo 3 too its kind of a negative view to assume that they will and therefor not implementing leaderboards. In my opinion they might work and if theyre not we´re all going to know about it and ignore their value as a landmark on how good we are compared to others. Its a bit like the R6V leaderboards, theyre not full of cheaters but its common knowledge that theyre broken and not updating so people arent refering to them. Ubi gave it a shot though and if it had worked it would have been a nice feature. I have way more confidence in Bungie making leaderboards work so whats holding them back. Blaming a big community and cheaters is saying that the pool of players has a negative effect on their own experience and for the cheaters...theyve already won in a way eh?

Edit: One more thing, im still looking for the most crucial stats here on b.net, individual playlist ranks for halo 3. We had them for halo 2 so why arent they there. IMO theyre far more interesting than medals earned and general K/D ratios.

[Edited on 10.16.2007 6:26 AM PDT]

  • 10.16.2007 5:09 AM PDT
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I'm "D king"
Posted by: King Karp
I would never eat a pet, as in an animal.
Now, if it was a pet cake or pie, then Hell YEAH! I'd eat that -blam!- man!

25% of 1 million is 250,000. good luck trying to fit that on one page

Posted by: dalmedya
I have a suggestion regarding a global 'leaderboard':
Percentage brackets. Top 1%, 2%,,5%, 10%, 15% and 25%. Anybody lower than 25% would just show 'not listed'.
This would be listed in a player's stats, rather than as a board.

  • 10.16.2007 6:43 AM PDT
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How about a global "Worst Players" leaderboard? No one would cheat, and maybe people would pad their Gamertag with losses, but its all good because I just wanna get free kills! lol

  • 10.16.2007 7:28 AM PDT
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I thought wehad that on Halo 2 and they took it off cause you could not tell who was cheating and who wasn''t. I don't think we need one. Who cares who is the best anyway, it's a game.

  • 10.16.2007 7:32 AM PDT
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Posted by: Achronos
Global leaderboards are deliberately omitted - they aren't really relevant given our incredibly high population.


Good thing that makes no sense.

  • 10.19.2007 10:29 PM PDT
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yeah... halo 2 tried that. not saying its bungies fault... but BIIIIIIIG mistake, i remember the guy who was first for Rumble Pit... XX AK47 XX dear god... i managed to enter a custom game of his.... flying warthogs, insta kill plasma pistol. BR that fired plasma grenades.... needless to say i left that after about 10 seconds.

  • 10.20.2007 2:14 AM PDT
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I remember the H2 leaderboards in early '05 when the top three slots had gamertags similar to "XiMoD4lulzX

  • 10.20.2007 4:53 AM PDT
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Posted by: Pezz
I remember the H2 leaderboards in early '05 when the top three slots had gamertags similar to "XiMoD4lulzX

Didn't one dude go on G4 because he was the first person to reach a 50? Then we all found out later that he cheated to get up there?

[Edited on 10.20.2007 11:05 AM PDT]

  • 10.20.2007 11:05 AM PDT

Posted by: Achronos
Global leaderboards are deliberately omitted - they aren't really relevant given our incredibly high population.


Well maybe something like the 'Top 100 of Whatever' or something like that...

  • 10.20.2007 11:18 AM PDT
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Would there be any way, on the career stats page, to link the medals you've recieved to the games in which you got them?

  • 10.20.2007 11:19 AM PDT
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Posted by: Pezz
I remember the H2 leaderboards in early '05 when the top three slots had gamertags similar to "XiMoD4lulzX


Yeah, because you can mod in Halo 3. [/sarcasm]

Again, an example of Bungie rep's making no sense. Not having leaderboards is stupid.

[Edited on 10.20.2007 12:54 PM PDT]

  • 10.20.2007 12:54 PM PDT
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Well gee, I wonder what would definitely encourage people to try and cheat, Kraaayzie? I've met a few cheaters already, and they'd definitely be more active if there were leaderboards.

Furthermore, Bungie.net moderators are not Bungie reps. His opinions hold no more weight than mine or, regrettably, yours.

  • 10.20.2007 1:39 PM PDT
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Posted by: KRAAAYZIE
Yeah, because you can mod in Halo 3. [/sarcasm]
I wouldn't put it past somebody to figure out how.

In fact, I'm pretty sure there are probably some people who already have. Whether it was offline or online and whether they got caught if they were doing it online is debatable. But to be completely honest: It's not impossible to mod a video game of any kind. It just takes some time, patience, and a will to make yourself look better in the eyes of others.

The leaderboards would definitely help the cheaters on their goal to make themselves look better. No doubt about it.

Also... what Saint said about moderators not being Bungie reps and their opinions being the same as everybody else's in weight holds truth.

[Edited on 10.20.2007 2:08 PM PDT]

  • 10.20.2007 2:04 PM PDT
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Hello everyone XD

  • 10.20.2007 3:07 PM PDT

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Posted by: KRAAAYZIE
Posted by: Pezz
I remember the H2 leaderboards in early '05 when the top three slots had gamertags similar to "XiMoD4lulzX


Yeah, because you can mod in Halo 3. [/sarcasm]

Again, an example of Bungie rep's making no sense. Not having leaderboards is stupid.
1. Pezz is a volunteer. He does not represent Bungie.
2. There are worse things than modding.
3. No one cares if XIXXI M0DD3RZZZ IXXIX (I just made that up) is a 50 at Lone Wolves

  • 10.20.2007 3:26 PM PDT
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Posted by: Fuzzy OneThree
1. Pezz is a volunteer. He does not represent Bungie.
2. There are worse things than modding.
3. No one cares if XIXXI M0DD3RZZZ IXXIX (I just made that up) is a 50 at Lone Wolves
1. True.
2. Like what? And that really has nothing to do with it - modders are just the cheaters that happened to be around when the leaderboards were. Whatever new form of cheater was up and running when the leaderboards came would rise to the top of them.
3. Um, the people he cheated out of rank and fun to get to a 50 probably care!

  • 10.21.2007 4:12 AM PDT
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Posted by: KRAAAYZIE
Posted by: Pezz
I remember the H2 leaderboards in early '05 when the top three slots had gamertags similar to "XiMoD4lulzX


Yeah, because you can mod in Halo 3. [/sarcasm]

Again, an example of Bungie rep's making no sense. Not having leaderboards is stupid.


It was an example of how the very idea of leaderboards are flawed. I said modding because modding was the big one in Halo 2. My comment represented cheating in all its forms. Cheating is still around in Halo 3 which would corrupt the leaderboards - which is what I was saying.

You TOTALLY missed the point of my post, nice work.

How about, next time, you ask me to clarify or point out an error in my post without being condescending and arrogant? I can pull it off so much better than you.

  • 10.21.2007 4:27 AM PDT

Posted by: KRAAAYZIE
Again, an example of Bungie rep's making no sense. Not having leaderboards is stupid.


Even though cheating is less prevalent in H3 (for now), leaderboards are still too much of an incentive to cheat, boost and all the other things people with way too much time on their hands do to pad their rank.

It's also a statement that Bungie and it's Halo community care more about having fun.

  • 10.21.2007 9:16 AM PDT
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Posted by: Mike D Halo King
25% of 1 million is 250,000. good luck trying to fit that on one page

Posted by: dalmedya
I have a suggestion regarding a global 'leaderboard':
Percentage brackets. Top 1%, 2%, 5%, 10%, 15% and 25%. Anybody lower than 25% would just show 'not listed'.
This would be listed in a player's stats page, rather than as a board.
My bad. Bold is edit.
This would tell a player where they sit regarding the rest of the world; saying you're in the top 1% is less impressive than saying you're the best player EVAR!1!1 Yes, people would still cheat, they always will.

  • 10.21.2007 4:37 PM PDT

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Posted by: atomic weggie
Even though cheating is less prevalent in H3 (for now)...


Exactly why we don't need them. We don't have much cheating now. Bringing them in, as you eluded to, could (likely would) have horrible effects on the amount of cheating.

  • 10.21.2007 4:47 PM PDT
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With or without a leaderboard, people are still manifesting new ways to cheat. A leaderboard would actually be cool, especially to watch yourself go up gradually...or down :(

[Edited on 10.23.2007 11:57 PM PDT]

  • 10.23.2007 11:53 PM PDT

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I think some people are missing the point about the size of the population being the reason that leader boards would be irrelevant. Notice the use of the word irrelevant, and not "stupid" or "boring", etc. I love data/stats as much as the next geek, and the only thing that makes data interesting is all the different ways you can analyze it; "Top" lists (i.e. leader boards) being one of those methods.

However, the greater the amount of data you have, the larger "top" lists need to be be to be relevant and show any interesting information. If there were only 10~1000 unique players (ever) on Halo 3, then leader boards would be interesting (To some). With as many unique players as there truly are though, the top 10 players would have the same number (As likely would the top 100, 200, etc). So it would just be pages and pages of the same number, and then pages and pages of the next lowest number, etc.

So, I'm not saying that the general concept of leader boards is uninteresting (Quite the opposite). But when the amount of data reaches large volumes like it does with Halo, then leader boards aren't really as interesting.

Yes, there are other ways of analyzing the data from a community perspective, but it seems like Bungie makes an effort to avoid that (I wasn't around b.net for the H2 leader board days). My guess as to why they do that is similar to most of yours': This community attracts a lot of individuals who take the game (And/or the game data) very seriously, and some take it way too seriously for some reason or another. You can see it in these forums from time to time: Some member trying to quantify how "good" they (Or some other people) are. The people who take the data too seriously will do anything they can (Including inappropriate things) to generate "good" stats. A leader board is an easy reference of comparison that has the potential to drive players to be too serious about their stats/data.

In any case, the data can certainly be viewed as a quantification of how "good" someone is. However, if there is any singular, overarching "skill" metric (It seems like that is what the rank strives to be) it still isn't a completely accurate measurement of the person's true skill (I'm not knocking the TrueSkill system, btw). So what data would a leader board even include? You would have to pick one data point for each leader board. So whoever had the most kills might also have the most deaths. The leader boards wouldn't be a way to measure anyone's true skill, but they would be an excuse to play the game differently (Or possibly even cheat).

[Edited on 10.24.2007 6:48 AM PDT]

  • 10.24.2007 6:45 AM PDT
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agreed.

  • 10.24.2007 7:48 AM PDT

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