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Subject: The main problem.

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

I should note that Sketch and I have thought a lot about a Karma system for people in the public forums. What you guys have been described is more like a "community moderation" system, which I don't really think would be that effective here.

Rather, what we have been thinking about is a system which rewards you for good participation. For example, people with high karma could get access to a bigger set of avatars, some special titles, maybe a restricted forum (that everyone can see, but only high karma users can participate in). People with low karma would be more limited in how often they could post, and then eventually losing the ability to create new topics, only to reply. New users would start out at a mid-level of karma (not good, but not bad). This gives new users the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise.

Abuse would be prevented by the fact that karma would be mostly automatic. For the most part, karma would be gained and lost without user interaction/rating of posts. So, certain things make you a more "trusted" user: gamertag linking (you've paid for that privledge), posting topics/posts, founding an active chapter, having little to no history of moderator actions on your posts, etc. The only user component would be a feedback system. We could add something where people could rate posts, and this could slightly affect karma, as well as maybe affect sort order - or at least put an icon next to the thread indicating whether people think it is a good thread or not.

So, yeah, we have ideas. But we're looking at dealing with search first, and then we'll think more about it. What you guys can do now is talk about the above proposals and suggest modifications or concerns. Or maybe add to the list of rewards or things that modify karma. Please remember though - we're trying to go for positive reinforcement of good participation.

  • 12.08.2004 11:11 AM PDT

- Mike

We need a another avatar contest. That was fun.

Anyway- A karma would be cool but wont you get people that rate people bad just becuase there evil. It will be a new kind of spam. Rating everyone you see bad.

I would like a post title. Or if you have 1000 post you get more avatars, or if you have 2000 you get a custom avatar. Stuff like that is cool. The hidden forum idea is great. A forum moderators wont have to check as often.

I still want to see my halo 2 avatar as my forum avatar! Achronos what ever happened with that idea?


[Edited on 12/8/2004 11:38:16 AM]

  • 12.08.2004 11:37 AM PDT
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Posted by: antiherosk8er
Anyway- A karma would be cool but wont you get people that rate people bad just becuase there evil. It will be a new kind of spam. Rating everyone you see bad.


Unless your karma level determined how many ratings you could pass out on other people in a 24 hour period.

  • 12.08.2004 11:39 AM PDT
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Posted by: Achronos
I should note that Sketch and I have thought a lot about a Karma system for people in the public forums. What you guys have been described is more like a "community moderation" system, which I don't really think would be that effective here.

Rather, what we have been thinking about is a system which rewards you for good participation. For example, people with high karma could get access to a bigger set of avatars, some special titles, maybe a restricted forum (that everyone can see, but only high karma users can participate in). People with low karma would be more limited in how often they could post, and then eventually losing the ability to create new topics, only to reply. New users would start out at a mid-level of karma (not good, but not bad). This gives new users the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise.

Abuse would be prevented by the fact that karma would be mostly automatic. For the most part, karma would be gained and lost without user interaction/rating of posts. So, certain things make you a more "trusted" user: gamertag linking (you've paid for that privledge), posting topics/posts, founding an active chapter, having little to no history of moderator actions on your posts, etc. The only user component would be a feedback system. We could add something where people could rate posts, and this could slightly affect karma, as well as maybe affect sort order - or at least put an icon next to the thread indicating whether people think it is a good thread or not.

So, yeah, we have ideas. But we're looking at dealing with search first, and then we'll think more about it. What you guys can do now is talk about the above proposals and suggest modifications or concerns. Or maybe add to the list of rewards or things that modify karma. Please remember though - we're trying to go for positive reinforcement of good participation.


It sounds great --
Although, the potential is there for discrimination, and that'll always be a problem - not a prominent one, but still a threat waiting for a possible time to strike.

Then again, that's probably just me being stupid. I'll leave that judgement for others to make.

  • 12.08.2004 11:42 AM PDT
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Achronos, it sounds like a good idea, but what about that "I'm better than you because I can go to this extra forum, neener-neener-neener" mentality? Would they lose karma for being jerks like that?

  • 12.08.2004 11:44 AM PDT
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Posted by: antiherosk8er
I would like a post title. Or if you have 1000 post you get more avatars, or if you have 2000 you get a custom avatar. Stuff like that is cool. The hidden forum idea is great. A forum moderators wont have to check as often.

I still want to see my halo 2 avatar as my forum avatar! Achronos what ever happened with that idea?


Post counters will encourage people to spam and make useless posts (allthough without a counter it happens as well) but people will be posting as mad to get their 1000+ or 2000+ post count.

Also about the 'hidden' forum, the moderators better do check often. It's good to have them participate in intelligent discussion.

  • 12.08.2004 11:44 AM PDT

- Mike

Posted by: Gnorn
Post counters will encourage people to spam and make useless posts (allthough without a counter it happens as well) but people will be posting as mad to get their 1000+ or 2000+ post count.

Also about the 'hidden' forum, the moderators better do check often. It's good to have them participate in intelligent discussion.


I did not say anything about post counter did i? You dont need a post counter to so this. not all members would now about this. Only Deticated Bungie Fans will post 1000+ post, trust me.
Also we just need something on the forums that rewards good users. SOMETHING!

[Edited on 12/8/2004 11:53:18 AM]

  • 12.08.2004 11:52 AM PDT
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Posted by: Achronos
I should note that Sketch and I have thought a lot about a Karma system for people in the public forums.

what?!? son of a...
<goes to change his B.net login>

  • 12.08.2004 11:55 AM PDT

- Mike

Posted by: BadKarma
Posted by: Achronos
I should note that Sketch and I have thought a lot about a Karma system for people in the public forums.

what?!? son of a...
<goes to change his B.net login>

Haha... Thats great! lol

  • 12.08.2004 12:01 PM PDT
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Posted by: antiherosk8er
I did not say anything about post counter did i? You dont need a post counter to so this. not all members would now about this. Only Deticated Bungie Fans will post 1000+ post, trust me.
Also we just need something on the forums that rewards good users. SOMETHING!


Oh, I see. You mean a hidden postcounter, and after you have unknowingly made 1000 posts you acces to more privileges? And it would come as a bit of a surprise? That would be good. Me likes allready.

  • 12.08.2004 12:10 PM PDT
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People would just spam until they get the privileges. Trust me, you can't reward someone for posting a lot. If they did that, I'd be swimming in prizes.

  • 12.08.2004 12:11 PM PDT
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Posted by: Tanikaze
People would just spam until they get the privileges. Trust me, you can't reward someone for posting a lot. If they did that, I'd be swimming in prizes.


Conceited? No, I don't think so. :-p

  • 12.08.2004 12:26 PM PDT
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Posted by: Gnorn
Posted by: Tanikaze
People would just spam until they get the privileges. Trust me, you can't reward someone for posting a lot. If they did that, I'd be swimming in prizes.


Conceited? No, I don't think so. :-p


I'm talking about quantity, not quality, here. :D

I suffer no delusion that all of my posts are quality/worth reading at all.

  • 12.08.2004 12:33 PM PDT

- Mike

Posted by: Tanikaze
People would just spam until they get the privileges. Trust me, you can't reward someone for posting a lot. If they did that, I'd be swimming in prizes.

They dont have to know about. It can be a big secret. Bungies good at making secrets...

  • 12.08.2004 1:37 PM PDT

Add the email above to your MSN to contact me with emergencies on the forum.

FOR CARNAGE, APPLY WITHIN
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I don't think it would be a hidden post counter -- that would do no good -- for example -- Mithrandir and Blood Potato and 2 others made almost 10000 posts in a 2 hour timespan a few months ago, -I think it would probably be something like number of responses you get, content rated by mods and employees, or something similar. Maybe group membership in those active chapters? I dunno.

I would like to hear more on how karma would be disbursed from Achronos or Sketch.

But related -- the search is something long missing from Bungie, and would be a most welcome addition -- the Google method is not reliable.



[Edited on 12/8/2004 3:16:44 PM]

  • 12.08.2004 3:12 PM PDT
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  • still hates toast

Leaving doesn't help anyone. Staying and making intelligent topics and replies is very helpful. Do you love bungie? DO YOU? PLEASE DON'T GO!

That's what I think. All the people that think they're smart at bungie.net are weak. They can't even hang around more than two months. I've been here for several years. Wankers.

[Edited on 12/8/2004 4:23:16 PM]

  • 12.08.2004 4:21 PM PDT

Add the email above to your MSN to contact me with emergencies on the forum.

FOR CARNAGE, APPLY WITHIN
Marathon, Myth, and MORE (Under construction)

NO U! A Webcomic.
Mob Of Angry Peasants Chat

I've only been here since May, stosh. But -- you know, I like to think that I've made helpful contributions from time to time.

  • 12.08.2004 4:52 PM PDT

- Mike

Contributions.... Can i donate to the "Stosh has been here for years" fund?

  • 12.08.2004 6:46 PM PDT
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Hmmm, seems like a foilproof system will be hard to implement. Hey, what about points for correct spelling and stuff? It will give people incentive to actually type well, or well enough for other people to read.

[Edited on 12/9/2004 4:10:20 AM]

  • 12.08.2004 8:38 PM PDT
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Posted by: Captain K Mart
Hmmm, seems like a foilproof system will be hard to implement. Hey, what about points for correct spelling and stuff? It will give people incentive to actually type legibly, instead of stupidly.


Can anyone spot the irony?

  • 12.08.2004 8:44 PM PDT

Add the email above to your MSN to contact me with emergencies on the forum.

FOR CARNAGE, APPLY WITHIN
Marathon, Myth, and MORE (Under construction)

NO U! A Webcomic.
Mob Of Angry Peasants Chat

Well, now people are beginning conspiracy theory threads.

I tell you - it makes me want to cry.

  • 12.12.2004 6:50 AM PDT
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I think one of the rewards should be is new tattoos for halo 2 if you linked your gamertag to your .net login. Maybe tattoos that can be placed in a new location on your armor, that would be cool.

  • 12.12.2004 9:58 AM PDT
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Even though I'm a strong believer in "Bungie owes you nothing" thing, it' would e nice to have a few added goodies for good users, right now, a good user will just not get banned, and maybe get recognition by other users. It's fairly easy for someone to feel left out from that too.

  • 12.12.2004 10:16 AM PDT
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The hidden forum idea sounds cool, but I think even that would be abused. People are always wanting to be ahead of everyone else, and the elitist idea can start a lot of flamewars. Although I, like most others, would enjoy special priveleges such as custom avatars and titles, it will make for a lot of people to feel left out and just generally not be very positive. I liked Bungie.net because everyone was equal. But then again, that causes huge problems because of the enormous amounts of new users with an incapacity for thinking and typing. Argh! People! They are the cause of all problems.

  • 12.12.2004 10:38 AM PDT
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Posted by: Achronos
I should note that Sketch and I have thought a lot about a Karma system for people in the public forums. What you guys have been described is more like a "community moderation" system, which I don't really think would be that effective here.

Rather, what we have been thinking about is a system which rewards you for good participation. For example, people with high karma could get access to a bigger set of avatars, some special titles, maybe a restricted forum (that everyone can see, but only high karma users can participate in). People with low karma would be more limited in how often they could post, and then eventually losing the ability to create new topics, only to reply. New users would start out at a mid-level of karma (not good, but not bad). This gives new users the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise.

Abuse would be prevented by the fact that karma would be mostly automatic. For the most part, karma would be gained and lost without user interaction/rating of posts. So, certain things make you a more "trusted" user: gamertag linking (you've paid for that privledge), posting topics/posts, founding an active chapter, having little to no history of moderator actions on your posts, etc. The only user component would be a feedback system. We could add something where people could rate posts, and this could slightly affect karma, as well as maybe affect sort order - or at least put an icon next to the thread indicating whether people think it is a good thread or not.

So, yeah, we have ideas. But we're looking at dealing with search first, and then we'll think more about it. What you guys can do now is talk about the above proposals and suggest modifications or concerns. Or maybe add to the list of rewards or things that modify karma. Please remember though - we're trying to go for positive reinforcement of good participation.


One question about this entire "karma" thing: If this system is to be introduced, what about all of the older members? Does everyone start at the same "level" as everyone else, or do we older (let's say 6 month membership) start at a higher level of karmaness(?)?

I think i have proven myself to be a "good" member( yeah yeah, you all go "cough"), so if this system will come, do i have to proof myself all over again?

  • 12.13.2004 6:26 AM PDT

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