Halo 1 & 2 for PC
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Subject: How Bungie Makes Great Games

Hello! Star Wars FTW. Also, join the MAW group. Please?

Posted by: Ryanman7
Of course they had a right. But they stood to lose NO money from it. (I'm never, ever, going to play an RTS on a console)


So your saying that becuase you are never going to play an RTS on console, noone else will. Opinion is not fact. Case and point that Console RTS does not = fail: Command and Conquer 3 tiberium wars for the 360 . People seem to like it, and it is a port of a PC game. Halo Wars from the beggining was meant to be a console game.
Hell, people once said FPS's wouldn't work on console.



[Edited on 10.01.2007 6:39 PM PDT]

  • 10.01.2007 6:38 PM PDT
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Maw

Posted by: Recoton007
So trekkie, when you say that there are "other cases of plagiarism" this catches my attention not because I wish to watch Bungie burning down, while I dance around the fire yelling, "Take down the corporations!!!" but rather it is because I seek the truth through the eyes of all individuals (excluding Fox, I already know his arrogant perspective.) If you do not wish to say anything, that is completely acceptable in my terms, as I do not wish to force anything upon anyone. Plagarism or not, I'm still playing H2V, and have been playing it since the game came out. :)


The plagiarism was alleged to begin with, but there was evidence which is probably floating around in the depths of the internet right know, waiting to be uncovered. However, it has already been discussed, and resurfacing it would be like throwing gas on an old, festered wound regardless of the outcome.

Thus said, I must take your gracious offer and refuse information, for "a closed mouth gathers no foot" and "let sleeping dogs lie" not to mention "you better keep your mouth shut you nerdy son of a -blam!-!"

[Edited on 10.01.2007 6:46 PM PDT]

  • 10.01.2007 6:44 PM PDT
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Posted by: Sergeant Pepper
Posted by: Ryanman7
Of course they had a right. But they stood to lose NO money from it. (I'm never, ever, going to play an RTS on a console)


So your saying that becuase you are never going to play an RTS on console, noone else will. Opinion is not fact. Case and point that Console RTS does not = fail: Command and Conquer 3 tiberium wars for the 360 . People seem to like it, and it is a port of a PC game. Halo Wars from the beggining was meant to be a console game.
Hell, people once said FPS's wouldn't work on console.



I am with Ryanman7 in that I will never play an rts on the console. Although the concept of having the crosshairs in the center of the screen is an innovative and feasible way of replacing the mouse, it is still no 1-1 substitute. I cannot see a fast-paced rts occuring on a console, so when I play an rts, it'll be on the good ol' fashioned pc with hot keys galore.

I don't see how Microsoft would have lost any money at all. i do see how EA benefits though. There were dozens of people, including myself, who were going to buy CNC Generals Zero Hour after the mod was released. However, because this has stopped, i will no longer be interested in the game. So I guess if you see destroying EA's revenues as making money for Microsoft, then yes, Microsoft would make money in that sense.

Putting money aside, I don't see how it is ethical to destroy fanboys because they infringe on the rights of Bungie. Here's a great example. If you guys saw the Microsoft Expo during E3, the people who started the expo off, were 4 musicians who were playing copyprotected music. They were not making money off of this, but rather they were just a bunch of guys who loved Halo, and wished to express it. The musicians were praised for their work, while the CG modelers and animators at Slipstream Productions were struck down. I don't think this is fair at all. Microsoft cannot be fought, and this mod will remain dead because at the end of the day, the man with the most money is the man that has the biggest say.

  • 10.01.2007 7:25 PM PDT

Now, in the quantum moment before the closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time. I know who you are. You are destiny.

The musicians were hired by M$.

THREAD CLOSED.

  • 10.01.2007 7:51 PM PDT
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The musicians were hired by microsoft AFTER they had seen the youtube.com video that the musicians published. They were hired by microsoft AFTER they had already infringed upon the rights of Bungie and Microsoft. Instead of being struck down though, they were encouraged and even hired. What I am saying is that fanboys should be embraced, not struck down. They work for free out of their own passion, and if the world did not have fanboys, well that wouldn't be much of a world at all.

[Edited on 10.01.2007 8:00 PM PDT]

  • 10.01.2007 7:57 PM PDT

Now, in the quantum moment before the closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time. I know who you are. You are destiny.

How can you know they were not hired in the first place? I doubt Bill has the time to search for musicians in Youtube.

  • 10.01.2007 7:59 PM PDT
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Because I do my research. If you would like to learn more here's a nice interview with the violinist. She's really cool.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/25527.html

(she's hot, because she's a girl who actually likes videogames, let alone halo) lol

Also, I don't think Bill really works for Microsoft anymore. Didn't he give up his CEO position or something? I don't remember the details, but anyway, he's in Africa alot, working in his "Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation." No he does not watch youtube, which is why he has over 40 billion dollars.

[Edited on 10.01.2007 8:08 PM PDT]

  • 10.01.2007 8:04 PM PDT

Now, in the quantum moment before the closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time. I know who you are. You are destiny.

Posted by: Recoton007
Because I do my research. If you would like to learn more here's a nice interview with the violinist. She's really cool.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/25527.html

(she's hot, because she's a girl who actually likes videogames, let alone halo) lol
Well, I'm sorry I don't trust your research, basing my ideas on your previous faults. I doubt M$ and Bungie give a damn about the music anyways. I mean, they're not even playing it in a game, but to a public.

Oh, and (she's hot, because she's a girl who actually likes videogames, let alone halo) lol I lol'd. Sad, typical attitude.

  • 10.01.2007 8:08 PM PDT
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Maw

Sorry to break in here, but why are you still caring about this?

  • 10.01.2007 8:20 PM PDT

Now, in the quantum moment before the closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time. I know who you are. You are destiny.

Because, I like debating annoying and senseless people until they decide they're too bored to continue and leave.

  • 10.01.2007 8:32 PM PDT
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For Halo Wars, I will probably play it, because I think that if anyone can take a type of game that has always only worked well on the PC and make it into a console game, it's Bungie. I have a good feeling that they'll do the game right.

  • 10.02.2007 1:41 PM PDT
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Posted by: Oni Ryu
For Halo Wars, I will probably play it, because I think that if anyone can take a type of game that has always only worked well on the PC and make it into a console game, it's Bungie. I have a good feeling that they'll do the game right.


Too bad Bungie's not making the game... and there are limits to any platform that even god can't overcome, much less the developer who made Halo 2.

Posted by: Sergeant Pepper
Posted by: Ryanman7
Of course they had a right. But they stood to lose NO money from it. (I'm never, ever, going to play an RTS on a console)


So your saying that becuase you are never going to play an RTS on console, noone else will. Opinion is not fact. Case and point that Console RTS does not = fail: Command and Conquer 3 tiberium wars for the 360 . People seem to like it, and it is a port of a PC game. Halo Wars from the beggining was meant to be a console game.
Hell, people once said FPS's wouldn't work on console.



Let me rephrase that: If there were no Idiots in this world who will buy anything with Master Chief on it, than nobody would play Halo Wars.
Did you actually PLAY C&C3 on the 360? The thing controlled like CRAP, the graphics were worse, and it cost more. In no way, shape, or form was that a "success". I don't know anyone that bought it, and at my LAN center we had it played two or three times tops (by people who didn't know how to use a PC) Nobody I know was stupid enough to buy it for the 360, ESPECIALLY over the PC.

It was said they(shooters) wouldn't work, and in a way, it was right. Only with massive autoaim and hard-coded limitations to the Mouse/KB is cross-platform play possible. It's safe to say that console shooters are a completely different, simplified animal than PC shooters, and once again, the control limits shine through in multiple genres.

Oh well. There's always Madden.

[Edited on 10.02.2007 2:35 PM PDT]

  • 10.02.2007 2:24 PM PDT
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Posted by: Oni Ryu
For Halo Wars, I will probably play it, because I think that if anyone can take a type of game that has always only worked well on the PC and make it into a console game, it's Bungie. I have a good feeling that they'll do the game right.


Lol, if anything, this is the precise reason why I would NOT play the game. The game is being made mainly by the guys at Ensemble Studios (the guys who made Age of Empire.) They've already tried to make a good rts on the 360 (AOE: Warlords,) and in my opinion it sucked a**. Don't expect Halo Wars to be incredible, but at the same time, it's Halo, it can't be that bad.

  • 10.02.2007 2:42 PM PDT

Posted by: Nessy

The bungie.net community is the halo PC community that is renowned for being unbelieveably sucky.

Here's an idea, stop buying Bungie games and stop pretending that Bungie 2007 is the same as Bungie 1997. Crazy revisionist history in this thread...

  • 10.02.2007 5:34 PM PDT

Now, in the quantum moment before the closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time. I know who you are. You are destiny.

Bungie doesn't make great games. Can we end this thread now?

  • 10.02.2007 5:42 PM PDT

Posted by: Nessy

The bungie.net community is the halo PC community that is renowned for being unbelieveably sucky.

Maybe Bungie and Microsoft are parting ways? Pretty big news if it's true...

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/10/02/bungie -microsoft-part-company

  • 10.02.2007 7:55 PM PDT
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aka lino4

Most of the PC issues posted here are the result of PEBKAC.

I would like to play Marathon, but it's a hassle to install and run. Has anyone played it before?

BTW, a Microsoft/Bungie split means better ports, seeing as they don't have to cripple it in order to pressure us to buy the Xbox version. (As with Halo 2)

[Edited on 10.03.2007 6:17 AM PDT]

  • 10.03.2007 6:15 AM PDT
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Frog Blast the Vent Core!

That's true... maybe there's hope for us afterall?

And Marathon is easy to set up... download the engine, and download Infinity, and put the files in the engine's folder. It needs more people, anyways.

  • 10.03.2007 6:37 AM PDT
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EDIT: I see Sgt. Pepper did my work for me. :P

(BTW: I'm not always one to trust information from companies about themselves. [ex: if you want reviews on Nintendo Games, you don't look in Nintendo Power, similarly if you want info on Gearbox you don't go to gearbox.com] The best critics are external and in being so, act as the bestsource of theoretically imbiased information. But for the sake of argument, i'll give leeway.)
Then that shows ignorance on your part. You failed to actually read the whole thing then, because Gearbox did actually try. THEY are the ones that gave us HEK. THEY are the ones that patched the game. They were trying to fix the faults Bungie set up for the port, for what ever reason they felt like mandating 56k support.

What I find even more funny is how you'll defend Bungie in its image and you won't deny anything they say, but you're skeptical about independent game developers and what they say to the whole community and that has been common knowledge for years. Sounds like you need to actually do your research, like I said before.

[Edited on 10.03.2007 8:46 AM PDT]

  • 10.03.2007 8:37 AM PDT
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Posted by: Agamemnon582bc
EDIT: I see Sgt. Pepper did my work for me. :P

(BTW: I'm not always one to trust information from companies about themselves. [ex: if you want reviews on Nintendo Games, you don't look in Nintendo Power, similarly if you want info on Gearbox you don't go to gearbox.com] The best critics are external and in being so, act as the bestsource of theoretically imbiased information. But for the sake of argument, i'll give leeway.)
Then that shows ignorance on your part. You failed to actually read the whole thing then, because Gearbox did actually try. THEY are the ones that gave us HEK. THEY are the ones that patched the game. They were trying to fix the faults Bungie set up for the port, for what ever reason they felt like mandating 56k support.

What I find even more funny is how you'll defend Bungie in its image and you won't deny anything they say, but you're skeptical about independent game developers and what they say to the whole community and that has been common knowledge for years. Sounds like you need to actually do your research, like I said before.

Firstly, I've read the entire posting. I think you misunderstand the intention of Sgt. Pepper when he posted the link. To fill you in, we had been discussing
whether Bungie was a strong influence on the development of both Halo PC and H2V. There is no doubt that when Gearbox and Hired Gun ported Halo, that they both tried their best to make a great game. What Sgt Pepper, (I think) was arguing was that Bungie was heavily involved in the production of both games. I think somewhere in the link, it said that both Bungie and Gearbox peeps were sweating equally over coding towards the deadline of the game. So I don't know what you are trying to argue when you say that they were the ones who gave us HEK and patches. This is not the issue. I agree with you on that. As a matter of fact, you are actually supporting my argument that Bungie was not involved in the production of the games. So I don't see how you are helping Sgt Pepper's argument.

If you feel that I'm saying that "Bungie is the best company ever, it's so uber cool. Anyone who says it sucks is a noob," then you are wrong. I DO NOT feel this way of Bungie, and I have frequently stated that Bungie has abandoned their original PC audience. So I'm not as Pro-Bungie as you think. I'm not skeptical of independent game developers, but what I'm saying is that when you try to find information on a company, you shouldn't first go to their "propaganda." Bungie frequently posts, what I would consider as propaganda, and I care little of what they have to say in this respect. Agamemnon, the segment that you quoted from my posting was a quasi-postscript, where I was saying on the side, how you get the best perspectives of a company from outsiders, rather than directly from the company. Similarly, you should be careful where you go to get information on the company from outsiders. (ex: If you want unskewed info on Star Wars stuff, don't go to StarTrek.com) To go a little extreme, unless you're an insider trader, I don't see why you should care too much about how a company views itself, or how it's people view themselves.

  • 10.03.2007 7:02 PM PDT

Slaying noobs since 2007.

Last I checked, Sgt. Pepper had a keyboard and an opinion.

  • 10.03.2007 7:09 PM PDT
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Fellas, let's be take it easy and not play "who can argue like a bunch'a kindygarteners or whine like a group of school girls the best..." You don't have to be complete douche bags to make a successful argument =/

To me, Halo is fun. I'll still play it even if everyone says they're riddled with more problems than a problem riddled game.

I wanted to download the Crysis demo a while back but they wanted me to pay to join "File Wankers" (Forgot what site it was)... -blam!- that.

[Edited on 10.03.2007 9:14 PM PDT]

  • 10.03.2007 9:10 PM PDT
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Posted by: Recoton007
Posted by: Agamemnon582bc
EDIT: I see Sgt. Pepper did my work for me. :P

(BTW: I'm not always one to trust information from companies about themselves. [ex: if you want reviews on Nintendo Games, you don't look in Nintendo Power, similarly if you want info on Gearbox you don't go to gearbox.com] The best critics are external and in being so, act as the bestsource of theoretically imbiased information. But for the sake of argument, i'll give leeway.)
Then that shows ignorance on your part. You failed to actually read the whole thing then, because Gearbox did actually try. THEY are the ones that gave us HEK. THEY are the ones that patched the game. They were trying to fix the faults Bungie set up for the port, for what ever reason they felt like mandating 56k support.

What I find even more funny is how you'll defend Bungie in its image and you won't deny anything they say, but you're skeptical about independent game developers and what they say to the whole community and that has been common knowledge for years. Sounds like you need to actually do your research, like I said before.

Firstly, I've read the entire posting. I think you misunderstand the intention of Sgt. Pepper when he posted the link. To fill you in, we had been discussing
whether Bungie was a strong influence on the development of both Halo PC and H2V. There is no doubt that when Gearbox and Hired Gun ported Halo, that they both tried their best to make a great game. What Sgt Pepper, (I think) was arguing was that Bungie was heavily involved in the production of both games. I think somewhere in the link, it said that both Bungie and Gearbox peeps were sweating equally over coding towards the deadline of the game. So I don't know what you are trying to argue when you say that they were the ones who gave us HEK and patches. This is not the issue. I agree with you on that. As a matter of fact, you are actually supporting my argument that Bungie was not involved in the production of the games. So I don't see how you are helping Sgt Pepper's argument.

If you feel that I'm saying that "Bungie is the best company ever, it's so uber cool. Anyone who says it sucks is a noob," then you are wrong. I DO NOT feel this way of Bungie, and I have frequently stated that Bungie has abandoned their original PC audience. So I'm not as Pro-Bungie as you think. I'm not skeptical of independent game developers, but what I'm saying is that when you try to find information on a company, you shouldn't first go to their "propaganda." Bungie frequently posts, what I would consider as propaganda, and I care little of what they have to say in this respect. Agamemnon, the segment that you quoted from my posting was a quasi-postscript, where I was saying on the side, how you get the best perspectives of a company from outsiders, rather than directly from the company. Similarly, you should be careful where you go to get information on the company from outsiders. (ex: If you want unskewed info on Star Wars stuff, don't go to StarTrek.com) To go a little extreme, unless you're an insider trader, I don't see why you should care too much about how a company views itself, or how it's people view themselves.

The point being, of course, when you first stated that Gearbox and Hired Gun were to blame for the ports. That's what I disapproved. I'm not sure where you're now trying to go or now trying to deviate the attention from, but that was the original point of discussion. Whether you wish to believe it or not, the said employee in question does not take pride in "propaganda." You can register the site and ask him yourself. I know I don't though, considering I already have, and considering he is a well-respected member of the community as well. Skepticism is good, but blind unacceptance isn't, even if you say you did read the whole thing. Also, if you did, you would know that while Bungie wasn't involved thoroughly in port production (to my knowledge they were much less involved in the second port then the first), they still were involved in key elements that are considered the biggest weak points in the ports, such as Halo 1's horrible net code, which was Bungie's doing.

  • 10.03.2007 9:24 PM PDT
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Posted by: Agamemnon582bc
The point being, of course, when you first stated that Gearbox and Hired Gun were to blame for the ports. That's what I disapproved. I'm not sure where you're now trying to go or now trying to deviate the attention from, but that was the original point of discussion. Whether you wish to believe it or not, the said employee in question does not take pride in "propaganda." You can register the site and ask him yourself. I know I don't though, considering I already have, and considering he is a well-respected member of the community as well. Skepticism is good, but blind unacceptance isn't, even if you say you did read the whole thing. Also, if you did, you would know that while Bungie wasn't involved thoroughly in port production (to my knowledge they were much less involved in the second port then the first), they still were involved in key elements that are considered the biggest weak points in the ports, such as Halo 1's horrible net code, which was Bungie's doing.


I see Gearbox and Hired Gun as the most responsible in the final products of Halo PC and H2V, and this is why I blame them and not Bungie. I blame Bungie for ignoring the PC audience. I see Bungie as not being strongly involved with the productions of these games, which is why I'm confused when you agree with me in this respect, while you attempt to disprove me. I fully agree with you that Bungie is responsible for the net coding, however, what they offered Gearbox was the basic skeleton, the alpha version core elements, which should have been filled in and corrected as Gearbox saw fit. The coding they offered Gearbox was by no means, what should have been in the Final Product. So, in their inability in correcting this coding, and making a reasonable solid port, I see Gearbox as failing not only the community, but also the reputation of excellence which Bungie sought to uphold. I blame Bungie for not being in the picture to guard its own reputation.

Hired Gun is a different issue. They were so focused on incorporating Windows Live (which is c*** compared to Xbox Live,) that they ended up making a disappointing game at best. Once again, Bungie was nowhere to be seen, except sometimes dropping in during production to offer minor tips to the developers. These 10 people did the best they could, and no doubt there was much sweat dripping into the keyboards, however the final product was also disappointing at best.

I don't need to register in the Gearbox Forums and speak with him, to know that he is not well intentioned and overall a nice guy. However, I feel that there is a great difference between how he views his team's final product, and the critic's view. I'm not saying that he is spewing propaganda, but I'm saying that because he works in the company, he has a bias.

This is my basic argument: "I don't think Bungie sucks. I think Bungie has no loyalties to their roots, the PC gamers."

  • 10.03.2007 10:30 PM PDT
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Posted by: vincent5
I would like to play Marathon, but it's a hassle to install and run. Has anyone played it before?



Yes, and its not at all a hassle to install (unless your using the Basilisk method). Just download the engine and environments, put the engine in the environment folder and your set.

link

Eye candy
Enhancments
ftp://ftp2.fileball.net/fileball/marathon/aleph1/WeaponEnhanc ementPackBev10b.zip (weapon enhancement pack)

[Edited on 10.03.2007 10:35 PM PDT]

  • 10.03.2007 10:33 PM PDT

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