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  • Subject: Halo 3 Service Record Not Updating
Subject: Halo 3 Service Record Not Updating

When you cant run, you Crawl... And when you cant do that anymore, you find someone to carry you!

Posted by: IntrepidMerc420
Posted by: hostage85
Common guys, Its affecting me too, its affecting most of it. Whining about it isnt gonna make it happen any faster, just be patient. I wanna see my medals too, i got some that i feel proud of over the weekend that i havent seen yet. We all know its being worked on, so let bungie do there job and fix it.


Another person who fails at this thread.

You don't know it's being worked on...you don't know what's being worked on, if anything.

I simply cannot explain why for the 100th time. It's ALL THROUGH THE THREAD.

And it's ignoring the lack of communication problem. Again, many, many people have highlighted it. So this is again, a totally garbage post.

I just don't get it...the words are on your screen, you read them, and you totally don't understand what you just read. It baffles me.



I know exactly what im reading, but all im sayign is, its no use whining and whinging, its not gonan get you anywhere, just be patient and it'll get fixed when it gets fixed, Just calm down and be patient. Your not the only one thats waiting to see whats going on. Servers can have troubles and with the amount of people that play halo 3 i was surprissed it kept up as long as it did. Give it time. Patience is a virtue, get some.

  • 10.08.2007 10:39 PM PDT
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Posted by: spartakus14
Posted by: IntrepidMerc420
Posted by: hostage85
Common guys, Its affecting me too, its affecting most of it. Whining about it isnt gonna make it happen any faster, just be patient. I wanna see my medals too, i got some that i feel proud of over the weekend that i havent seen yet. We all know its being worked on, so let bungie do there job and fix it.

You don't know it's being worked on...you don't know what's being worked on, if anything.


neither do you, so what right do you have to put down others like that?

None, because on Bungie.net, you have no rights.


You're right...I don't know what's being worked on. That's the point. Yet you and others like you (it's just a handful of people) keep insisting "relax, Bungie's working on it. They said they'll retrieve all information. They updated us just today on it". This is simply false. They did not. what do you think, hundreds of us on this thread are lying?

And this is why you perhaps feel "put down". There's no reason for me to do anything but make it so abundantly clear to you that you're wrong and that you don't know what you're talking about. It's flat out WRONG to make statements about things like this that are false, becasue you have no clue. It's called "being ignorant" and citing things that aren't true during arguments.

Go ahead, copy the links to the posts where all of the questions that you see on the last 3 pages are addressed. Since you can't do it, yes...you SHOULD feel put down. You're comprehending less than other people. You have the same shot. You're reading the same words they are.

  • 10.08.2007 10:39 PM PDT
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Posted by: hostage85
Posted by: IntrepidMerc420
Posted by: hostage85
Common guys, Its affecting me too, its affecting most of it. Whining about it isnt gonna make it happen any faster, just be patient. I wanna see my medals too, i got some that i feel proud of over the weekend that i havent seen yet. We all know its being worked on, so let bungie do there job and fix it.


Another person who fails at this thread.

You don't know it's being worked on...you don't know what's being worked on, if anything.

I simply cannot explain why for the 100th time. It's ALL THROUGH THE THREAD.

And it's ignoring the lack of communication problem. Again, many, many people have highlighted it. So this is again, a totally garbage post.

I just don't get it...the words are on your screen, you read them, and you totally don't understand what you just read. It baffles me.



I know exactly what im reading, but all im sayign is, its no use whining and whinging, its not gonan get you anywhere, just be patient and it'll get fixed when it gets fixed, Just calm down and be patient. Your not the only one thats waiting to see whats going on. Servers can have troubles and with the amount of people that play halo 3 i was surprissed it kept up as long as it did. Give it time. Patience is a virtue, get some.


And you just respect the fact that it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS ISSUE. The fact that you personally aren't as upset, and think others should calm down...doesn't mean that they should calm down/stop posting/deal with it.

It's just your personal viewpoint. Like politics. Thanks for noting it, but it really has nothing to do with this issue.

Person A is 10/10 upset. Person B is 1/10 upset. Logically, "problem X" is totally unaffected. That's why I keep using the word "irrelevant". It's the perfect word for it.

Want me to disappear and just stop posting? Wait till tomorrow or the next day...I told you, Team Fortress 2 comes out. If bungie still hasn't responded to this appropriately, I'm gone. You won't ever hear or see from me again. Not a threat...not a "you better fix it or else"...just the truth. So that's how "insane" I am over the issue. I'll be gone in a winds blow when the alternatives hit the shelves...starting in a matter of hours.

You think I'm the only one? We already went from 1.5-1.6 million online, down to less than 250,000 for days upon days now. When the 5 in 1 Orange Box hits (like I said, in hours) you don't think you'll see a further drop into the 100,000's? Of course...and I don't want to see that happen, that's why I'm here. Think about that when some of you "pro-bungie" guys start flaming me. I'm on the same side as you.

The next tidal wave? COD4 in 3 weeks. We'll be back down to today's gears of war numbers in a matter of days...

[Edited on 10.08.2007 10:49 PM PDT]

  • 10.08.2007 10:41 PM PDT

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Posted by: IntrepidMerc420
Posted by: spartakus14
Posted by: IntrepidMerc420
Posted by: hostage85
Common guys, Its affecting me too, its affecting most of it. Whining about it isnt gonna make it happen any faster, just be patient. I wanna see my medals too, i got some that i feel proud of over the weekend that i havent seen yet. We all know its being worked on, so let bungie do there job and fix it.

You don't know it's being worked on...you don't know what's being worked on, if anything.


neither do you, so what right do you have to put down others like that?

None, because on Bungie.net, you have no rights.


You're right...I don't know what's being worked on. That's the point. Yet you and others like you (it's just a handful of people) keep insisting "relax, Bungie's working on it. They said they'll retrieve all information. They updated us just today on it". This is simply false. They did not. what do you think, hundreds of us on this thread are lying?

And this is why you perhaps feel "put down". There's no reason for me to do anything but make it so abundantly clear to you that you're wrong and that you don't know what you're talking about. It's flat out WRONG to make statements about things like this that are false, becasue you have no clue. It's called "being ignorant" and citing things that aren't true during arguments.

Go ahead, copy the links to the posts where all of the questions that you see on the last 3 pages are addressed. Since you can't do it, yes...you SHOULD feel put down. You're comprehending less than other people. You have the same shot. You're reading the same words they are.


What I said and what you wrote are two different sides of an ocean here. All I was saying is that you can't say what is and is not being worked on because you don't know either. So, by that logic you shouldn't tell people there wrong when they say bungie is working on it because you don't know either.

Now I think it's you who should read not the entire thread, just my post.

  • 10.08.2007 10:51 PM PDT

When you cant run, you Crawl... And when you cant do that anymore, you find someone to carry you!

yes, maybe im not helping the situation, but getting annoyed doesnt either. tahts all im saying. Its a new game, it has bugs that werent anticipated. To be honest, i've never seen a game thats come out with all the big fixed first off. Im not flaming you, just stating that showing that your annoyed doesnt help the matter. Sure your gonan leave and heaps of other people will too. I have no doubt, but carrying on about it proves nothing anyway.

  • 10.08.2007 10:54 PM PDT
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My stats aren't updating, but I know they are being recorded because I am looking up the games of those I have played with or against, and it is in their listing.

I have been using these stats to check, plus it is aleviating my fears of my data isn't being recorded.

It is a small issue. If you are concerned about losing data, start saving all of your games. Use your HDD space to store it, instead of relying on a service which is a courtesy more than an obligation to people who play the game online.

  • 10.08.2007 10:55 PM PDT
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Posted by: spartakus14
Posted by: IntrepidMerc420
Posted by: spartakus14
Posted by: IntrepidMerc420
Posted by: hostage85
Common guys, Its affecting me too, its affecting most of it. Whining about it isnt gonna make it happen any faster, just be patient. I wanna see my medals too, i got some that i feel proud of over the weekend that i havent seen yet. We all know its being worked on, so let bungie do there job and fix it.

You don't know it's being worked on...you don't know what's being worked on, if anything.


neither do you, so what right do you have to put down others like that?

None, because on Bungie.net, you have no rights.


You're right...I don't know what's being worked on. That's the point. Yet you and others like you (it's just a handful of people) keep insisting "relax, Bungie's working on it. They said they'll retrieve all information. They updated us just today on it". This is simply false. They did not. what do you think, hundreds of us on this thread are lying?

And this is why you perhaps feel "put down". There's no reason for me to do anything but make it so abundantly clear to you that you're wrong and that you don't know what you're talking about. It's flat out WRONG to make statements about things like this that are false, becasue you have no clue. It's called "being ignorant" and citing things that aren't true during arguments.

Go ahead, copy the links to the posts where all of the questions that you see on the last 3 pages are addressed. Since you can't do it, yes...you SHOULD feel put down. You're comprehending less than other people. You have the same shot. You're reading the same words they are.


What I said and what you wrote are two different sides of an ocean here. All I was saying is that you can't say what is and is not being worked on because you don't know either. So, by that logic you shouldn't tell people there wrong when they say bungie is working on it because you don't know either.

Now I think it's you who should read not the entire thread, just my post.


Still missing the point- The point is the whole "we don't know". That's for no reason other than the fact that Bungie hasn't told us. And this, has no reason behind it other than they just haven't.

That's unacceptable.

[Edited on 10.08.2007 11:00 PM PDT]

  • 10.08.2007 10:56 PM PDT

Official Town Drunk of Sandwichia. Nation of the Flood.
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unacceptable is the behavior of people towards Bungie during this small fiasco.

You see, people, including you, don't see that bungie doesn't have to do any of this. They made there game how they wanted, all this stuff online is extra for there fans. In all reality, people still would have bought there game, Bungie still would have made there 300$ million without this.

So, I'd stop complaining and just start trusting them.

  • 10.08.2007 10:59 PM PDT
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I'm not about to read 28 pages, I know the stats haven't been working properly but what I've got is missing/lost data. A few days ago I got the campaign scoring achievements for the first 2 levels including a very nice 34,000 score for the first level ( 4 skulls turned on ). These 2 games haven't appeared in my service record although 2 campain levels I played last night have so they seem to be lost.

[Edited on 10.08.2007 11:02 PM PDT]

  • 10.08.2007 10:59 PM PDT
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Posted by: spartakus14
unacceptable is the behavior of people towards Bungie during this small fiasco.

You see, people, including you, don't see that bungie doesn't have to do any of this. They made there game how they wanted, all this stuff online is extra for there fans. In all reality, people still would have bought there game, Bungie still would have made there 300$ million without this.

So, I'd stop complaining and just start trusting them.


and you already know what I think of this guy. You can't force people to comprehend.

  • 10.08.2007 11:01 PM PDT
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Posted by: hostage85
yes, maybe im not helping the situation, but getting annoyed doesnt either. tahts all im saying. Its a new game, it has bugs that werent anticipated. To be honest, i've never seen a game thats come out with all the big fixed first off. Im not flaming you, just stating that showing that your annoyed doesnt help the matter. Sure your gonan leave and heaps of other people will too. I have no doubt, but carrying on about it proves nothing anyway.


how do you know "carrying on" doesn't help the problem?

"sitting silent" has never gotten anything accomplished either.

It's a difference of opinion in how to approach the matter. Some people are more aggressive, some people are more passive. Historically, the people who have been more aggressive, have achieved almost everything. You don't get things that are wrong changed by saying/doing nothing and just having faith that the people who botched it in the first place, will make everything better. That's how things get worse.

I have sat silent...every night for 4 nights now while I slept/ate/did whatever. Every day during the day when I've left the house to work, run errands whatever. Each time I come back, the thread is longer...the problem more widespread, and the issue not responded to from Bungie directly. I mean, what should we do...wait how long before posting again. 1 day? 2? 3? A week? A month? A year?

See what I'm saying...at some point, someone has to "do something".

[Edited on 10.08.2007 11:06 PM PDT]

  • 10.08.2007 11:04 PM PDT
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I have been having the same problem until about a few hours ago my highest skill updated and my social stats updated..even my exp updated....but theres a problem....my kills in ranked slayer did not update...it says i got like 30 kills more i've been playing for days i'm lvl 36 in lone wolf and you don't get that by getting 30 kills. I have easily gotten around 2 thousand more kills I am guessing in my time playing ranked. I don't know if they are just going to dump this or what but i trust bungie a lot.

  • 10.08.2007 11:06 PM PDT
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Posted by: IntrepidMerc420
You think I'm the only one? We already went from 1.5-1.6 million online, down to less than 250,000 for days upon days now. When the 5 in 1 Orange Box hits (like I said, in hours) you don't think you'll see a further drop into the 100,000's? Of course...and I don't want to see that happen, that's why I'm here. Think about that when some of you "pro-bungie" guys start flaming me. I'm on the same side as you.

The next tidal wave? COD4 in 3 weeks. We'll be back down to today's gears of war numbers in a matter of days...


First of all the numbers for Halo 2 weren't as low as 250,000 prior to the launch of Halo 3, so I can't see that happening. But I am looking forward to the next 'big release' it'll get most of the jerks out of Halo 3. I've been sticking to customs & social to avoid the temporary element. I am in no rush for Bungie to fix the stats issue, because I know I will be here for a while.

Also, you don't annoy me, I get a laugh from your antics, like when all those people were threatening to sue over the Halo 3 Beta being 6 hours late. It was a free Beta (yes free, whether by competition entry or if you bought the game Crackdown you got it for free with it) and people were threatening to sue over it.

So all of you, not just IntrepidMerc420, continue to rant and rave and argue amonst yourselves. I'll just sit here with a bemused smile.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lastly, by not keeping to topic, you have given the Bungie staff a lot more to look through when they need specific information from this thread concerning people with stats issues, so in essence you are slowing down the very process you wish to hurry up.

  • 10.08.2007 11:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: kfizzzle
I have been having the same problem until about a few hours ago my highest skill updated and my social stats updated..even my exp updated....but theres a problem....my kills in ranked slayer did not update...it says i got like 30 kills more i've been playing for days i'm lvl 36 in lone wolf and you don't get that by getting 30 kills. I have easily gotten around 2 thousand more kills I am guessing in my time playing ranked. I don't know if they are just going to dump this or what but i trust bungie a lot.


And that's the fundamental difference. Some of us, when we see a company botch something, don't GAIN confidence in them. We lose it.

Seems logical to me, doesn't it to you?

I don't understand...company issues a recall on 2 million cans of baby food because they accidentally spilled rat poison in it. You stand firm and confident in that company after that?

I don't understand...at all.

  • 10.08.2007 11:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: Farreg
Posted by: IntrepidMerc420
You think I'm the only one? We already went from 1.5-1.6 million online, down to less than 250,000 for days upon days now. When the 5 in 1 Orange Box hits (like I said, in hours) you don't think you'll see a further drop into the 100,000's? Of course...and I don't want to see that happen, that's why I'm here. Think about that when some of you "pro-bungie" guys start flaming me. I'm on the same side as you.

The next tidal wave? COD4 in 3 weeks. We'll be back down to today's gears of war numbers in a matter of days...


First of all the numbers for Halo 2 weren't as low as 250,000 prior to the launch of Halo 3, so I can't see that happening. But I am looking forward to the next 'big release' it'll get most of the jerks out of Halo 3. I've been sticking to customs & social to avoid the temporary element. I am in no rush for Bungie to fix the stats issue, because I know I will be here for a while.

Also, you don't annoy me, I get a laugh from your antics, like when all those people were threatening to sue over the Halo 3 Beta being 6 hours late. It was a free Beta (yes free, whether by competition entry or if you bought the game Crackdown you got it for free with it) and people were threatening to sue over it.

So all of you, not just IntrepidMerc420, continue to rant and rave and argue amonst yourselves. I'll just sit here with a bemused smile.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lastly, by not keeping to topic, you have given the Bungie staff a lot more to look through when they need specific information from this thread concerning people with stats issues, so in essence you are slowing down the very process you wish to hurry up.


Good..."sitting" with a "bemused smile" and "just" doing that discludes posting "stop crying!!! I have faith in Bungie!!"

Glad that's over with.

And comparing this to the free beta is logically void. One has nothing to do with the other. Halo 3 wasn't free.

  • 10.08.2007 11:10 PM PDT

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Posted by: IntrepidMerc420
Posted by: kfizzzle
I have been having the same problem until about a few hours ago my highest skill updated and my social stats updated..even my exp updated....but theres a problem....my kills in ranked slayer did not update...it says i got like 30 kills more i've been playing for days i'm lvl 36 in lone wolf and you don't get that by getting 30 kills. I have easily gotten around 2 thousand more kills I am guessing in my time playing ranked. I don't know if they are just going to dump this or what but i trust bungie a lot.


And that's the fundamental difference. Some of us, when we see a company botch something, don't GAIN confidence in them. We lose it.

Seems logical to me, doesn't it to you?

you have trust issues then.

If you lose trust in people every time they make a mistake, then you should go live in a natural cave, because everything in a house is made by people who have made mistakes in there life.

Halo 3....Halo 3 beta....

No, I can't see a connection either ;)

[Edited on 10.08.2007 11:12 PM PDT]

  • 10.08.2007 11:10 PM PDT
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Posted by: spartakus14
Posted by: IntrepidMerc420
Posted by: kfizzzle
I have been having the same problem until about a few hours ago my highest skill updated and my social stats updated..even my exp updated....but theres a problem....my kills in ranked slayer did not update...it says i got like 30 kills more i've been playing for days i'm lvl 36 in lone wolf and you don't get that by getting 30 kills. I have easily gotten around 2 thousand more kills I am guessing in my time playing ranked. I don't know if they are just going to dump this or what but i trust bungie a lot.


And that's the fundamental difference. Some of us, when we see a company botch something, don't GAIN confidence in them. We lose it.

Seems logical to me, doesn't it to you?

you have trust issues then.

If you lose trust in people every time they make a mistake, then you should go live in a natural cave, because everything in a house is made by people who have made mistakes in there life.


No absolutely not, you twisted what I said.

We're not talking about "people". "Bungie" is not some "person" that I have a relationship with. We're talking about companies. Which is why I said, companies.

One has nothing to do with the other.

"Bungie" is not my girlfriend who I've lost faith in. It's a company I paid money to...and got less of an experience thus far that other people who paid the same amount of money got.

Every time you post "against" the existance of posts like mine, you amuse me as well.

[Edited on 10.08.2007 11:13 PM PDT]

  • 10.08.2007 11:12 PM PDT

Official Town Drunk of Sandwichia. Nation of the Flood.
MBT - Impossible Just Happened
* How is it that "Fat Chance" and "Slim Chance" mean the same thing?
* If you choke a Smurf, what color will it turn?

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Posted by: IntrepidMerc420
Posted by: spartakus14
Posted by: IntrepidMerc420
Posted by: kfizzzle
I have been having the same problem until about a few hours ago my highest skill updated and my social stats updated..even my exp updated....but theres a problem....my kills in ranked slayer did not update...it says i got like 30 kills more i've been playing for days i'm lvl 36 in lone wolf and you don't get that by getting 30 kills. I have easily gotten around 2 thousand more kills I am guessing in my time playing ranked. I don't know if they are just going to dump this or what but i trust bungie a lot.


And that's the fundamental difference. Some of us, when we see a company botch something, don't GAIN confidence in them. We lose it.

Seems logical to me, doesn't it to you?

you have trust issues then.

If you lose trust in people every time they make a mistake, then you should go live in a natural cave, because everything in a house is made by people who have made mistakes in there life.


No absolutely not, you twisted what I said.

We're not talking about "people". "Bungie" is not some "person" that I have a relationship with. We're talking about companies. Which is why I said, companies.

One has nothing to do with the other.


ok your right.

If you lose trust in companies every time they make a mistake, then you should go live in a natural cave, because everything in a house is made by a company who has made mistakes in there business life.

  • 10.08.2007 11:13 PM PDT
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Posted by: spartakus14
Posted by: IntrepidMerc420
Posted by: kfizzzle
I have been having the same problem until about a few hours ago my highest skill updated and my social stats updated..even my exp updated....but theres a problem....my kills in ranked slayer did not update...it says i got like 30 kills more i've been playing for days i'm lvl 36 in lone wolf and you don't get that by getting 30 kills. I have easily gotten around 2 thousand more kills I am guessing in my time playing ranked. I don't know if they are just going to dump this or what but i trust bungie a lot.


And that's the fundamental difference. Some of us, when we see a company botch something, don't GAIN confidence in them. We lose it.

Seems logical to me, doesn't it to you?

you have trust issues then.

If you lose trust in people every time they make a mistake, then you should go live in a natural cave, because everything in a house is made by people who have made mistakes in there life.

Halo 3....Halo 3 beta....

No, I can't see a connection either ;)


Of course you can't see a connection. You cited that one was free. Right. And the other wasn't.

This is why your comparison is false...and why you yourself can't make a connection.

Starting to catch up a little?

  • 10.08.2007 11:14 PM PDT

Hmm... let me think. When Halo 3 first came out, and everyone had just bought the game, and was just starting matchmaking, an just starting to try to beat the game, of course they're going to keep playing!

However, now, people do need to get back to their lives.

And, while bungie.net doesn't say so, Xbox 360 usually reports 600-900k people online.


Also, the reason why I'm here:
I just finished the campaign on Legendary on co-op, got the achievement, yada yada yada. However, I wasn't on XBL at the time (My router dislikes having 2 360s atm, so I had to use a direct connect with an ethernet cord between the two boxes)


However, my question is, when my service record updates (which it does about every 3 days... still really slow though), will my bungie.net service record reflect me beating the game?

  • 10.08.2007 11:15 PM PDT
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Posted by: spartakus14
Posted by: IntrepidMerc420
Posted by: spartakus14
Posted by: IntrepidMerc420
Posted by: kfizzzle
I have been having the same problem until about a few hours ago my highest skill updated and my social stats updated..even my exp updated....but theres a problem....my kills in ranked slayer did not update...it says i got like 30 kills more i've been playing for days i'm lvl 36 in lone wolf and you don't get that by getting 30 kills. I have easily gotten around 2 thousand more kills I am guessing in my time playing ranked. I don't know if they are just going to dump this or what but i trust bungie a lot.


And that's the fundamental difference. Some of us, when we see a company botch something, don't GAIN confidence in them. We lose it.

Seems logical to me, doesn't it to you?

you have trust issues then.

If you lose trust in people every time they make a mistake, then you should go live in a natural cave, because everything in a house is made by people who have made mistakes in there life.


No absolutely not, you twisted what I said.

We're not talking about "people". "Bungie" is not some "person" that I have a relationship with. We're talking about companies. Which is why I said, companies.

One has nothing to do with the other.


ok your right.

If you lose trust in companies every time they make a mistake, then you should go live in a natural cave, because everything in a house is made by a company who has made mistakes in there business life.


Ok, now we're progressing...

My response: Once again, we're back to you stating a personal opinion on your philosophical viewpoints. Has nothing to do with this. End of story.

  • 10.08.2007 11:15 PM PDT

I'd like to thank Bungie for making this awesome game that millions enjoy and continue to support a thriving online community. I'm not here to throw down fighting words. I'm here to find other cats to beat down Covanent with. Also you should check out this following group:

The Spartan I Project

SIP is here to help you achieve a 1750 gamer score, unlocking all of the armor permutations for both Spartans and Elites.

http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/sip/group/joingroup.aspx

I don't want to take the time read all 28 pages but I find it odd that I can still upload stuff to my file share, and have THAT appear on my service record, but nothing from the past 4 days from the games I've played has been updated.

anyone have THAT same problem?

  • 10.08.2007 11:15 PM PDT
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My stats from tonight are updating, so I'm happy. Nothing from the weekend still, but I'm just glad it's finally updating somewhat.

  • 10.08.2007 11:17 PM PDT
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  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Shadowrunner777
I don't want to take the time read all 28 pages but I find it odd that I can still upload stuff to my file share, and have THAT appear on my service record, but nothing from the past 4 days from the games I've played has been updated.

anyone have THAT same problem?


All of us...and since we've pointed it out 100 times +, there's been no response to it.

Just truth.

  • 10.08.2007 11:18 PM PDT

Official Town Drunk of Sandwichia. Nation of the Flood.
MBT - Impossible Just Happened
* How is it that "Fat Chance" and "Slim Chance" mean the same thing?
* If you choke a Smurf, what color will it turn?

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Posted by: IntrepidMerc420
Ok, now we're progressing...

My response: Once again, we're back to you stating a personal opinion on your philosophical viewpoints. Has nothing to do with this. End of story.


You thinking that bungie should have thought ahead more and may/or may not be attempting to fix the current problem.

Stating that bungie should tell the people if they are working on the problem or not.

All personal opinions based on your own philosophical views.

Just remember the burden of proof is on you right now. So keep what you have coming. Playing defence is what I do, in football.

[Edited on 10.08.2007 11:20 PM PDT]

  • 10.08.2007 11:18 PM PDT