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Subject: Bump Mapping vs. Normal Mapping
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The new game "Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay", uses a new mapping called "Normal Mapping", where as Halo 2 is using "Bump Mapping". Now I hear Normal Mapping looks better, apparently it does due to the graphics of Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay. The graphics in this game are amazing, they even beat the graphics in Halo. Now im not sure if "Normal Mapping" was out before Halo 2 began being made, but if it was, why wasnt it used? If it wasnt then I can see why they wouldnt go back and re-make the environments, "People Want This Game"!

  • 06.04.2004 6:55 PM PDT
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I am pretty sure normal mapping uses lots of pixels while bump mapping uses less, but gives a much more detailed picture.

  • 06.04.2004 6:57 PM PDT
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Maybe Normal mapping takes more polygons. Bungie said that Halo 2 would use less polygons than halo 1, bye using a system called bump mapping.

  • 06.04.2004 6:57 PM PDT
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Normal mapping is just using more polygons to make the real models bumpy... Bump mapping is taking a flat surface and drawing the bumps, to make it LOOK bumpy (but it really only is a flat surface). Using normal mapping takes away a lot of power that could be used to do toher things

  • 06.04.2004 6:58 PM PDT
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as we all know less pixels means less lags, hence the bump mapping

  • 06.04.2004 6:59 PM PDT
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I see.

  • 06.04.2004 6:59 PM PDT
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Anyone here play that Riddick game? I like it alot though I can tell it is laggy in ways. Anyone else notice this? Guess thats why Bungie is using Bump Mapping.

[Edited on 6/4/2004 7:01:01 PM]

  • 06.04.2004 7:00 PM PDT
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The only reason you think riddick has better graphics then Halo 2 is because you've played a finished demo of the game. Halo 2 doesn't have this so you really can't compare the two.

  • 06.04.2004 7:00 PM PDT
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Never played it and dont plan to anytime soon.

  • 06.04.2004 7:01 PM PDT
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Actually, the game is already out. I've just played the demo..... Hehe. That just proves my point, though. Riddick is a finished game.

  • 06.04.2004 7:02 PM PDT
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January 30, 2004 (Warthog's Day)
The Master Chief emerged from his code. After seeing his dynamically lit realtime shadow, he went back for 9 more months of development.


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Normal mapping has been around for a long time. Halo had normal mapping. Bump mapping is new.

  • 06.04.2004 7:03 PM PDT
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If Halo 2 has better graphics than Riddick I will be very surprised because the graphics are incredible in Riddick.

  • 06.04.2004 7:52 PM PDT
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Normal mapping uses polygons to create the bumpyness of a surface.

Bump mapping uses shading to create the illusion of the bumpness of a surface.

Unless the normal mapping game has -blam!- lighting, you cant even tell the difference between the two unless you get real close, and look at it at an angle.

Bump mapping is real good because less polygons = better performance.

[Edited on 6/4/2004 8:02:05 PM]

  • 06.04.2004 8:01 PM PDT
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We need more nerds here.

More pixels != (don't) lag, well directly. More pixels could slow down your system which could slow down you network part of the game. Think of it on a super high end pc, 1600x1200 doesn't get more lag than a 640x480. It's all your internet connection and system speed where pixels are delt with the GPU.

Here is a common misconception I have seen on the internet, normal maps are NOT normal textures that are bitmaps. Normal maps are basicaly A BETTER bump map. You take a dense mesh, then you get it to a point where it has a low amount of polygons, then you create the normal map that reads the dense mesh, then makes the texture, and when applied to the low poly mesh, makes it look much more detailed. The unreal 3 engine is using it has the best graphics I have ever seen, and it is a next generation game. The reason why normal maps aren't on xbox is because it is so old, it has somthing like direct x 6-8 or somthing around that era when normal mapps weren't used. They are shader intensive and new cards/games are finally starting to use shaders which add a lot to graphics. The point of a normal map is to get MORE detail without using so many polygons.

Bump mapping is just an illusion, kinda. In terms of lighting it reacts like it is 3-d, but it is just a flat surface.

Normal Mapping = much much better than bump mapping, expect normal mapping on next gen games(o jebus i hope halo 3).

Links:

Here Is the unreal 3 engine, 6/7 to 7/8 of the way down the page is a good example of before and after of normal mapping.

Here is an example of bump mapping, as you can see in the picture, although it looks like the bricks are geometry (real 3d), if you look closley along the edges you can see that it is a texture.

Here is some info on normal maps, it has some examples, fun read.



[Edited on 6/4/2004 8:55:40 PM]

  • 06.04.2004 8:41 PM PDT

-S

Each and every response in this thread is, unfortunately, wrong.

Normal mapping and bump mapping are very similar to each other, in that both create the illusion of depth on a flat surface. Neither change the polycount of a model. One is often confused for the other.

Bump mapping was the first of the two effects. The technique is simple enough; a greyscale heightmap is used to determine how a surface interacts with light. The darker the color on the bump map, the more "inset" that particular part of the surface appears to be. The lighter the color, the more that part of the surface appears to project itself. 50% grey represents the middle ground.

The flaw behind bump mapping is that it only represents elevation in regard to one direction. This can make the surface seem flatter than what the artist is trying to achieve.

Enter the normal map. Where a bump map contains one greyscale heightmap, and as such one direction of elevation, a normal map contains three different heightmaps, one placed in each color channel, and as such considers depth in the x, y, and z directions. This creates an enhanced illusion that gives the viewer a better impression of depth that isn't actually there.

Halo used normal mapping in its surfaces. Halo 2 normal maps everything, which means everything has a heightened sense of detail, including the characters.

The reason these two effects are used is because they add detail without affecting the polycount of a model. However, both methods have a drawback. The closer you get to being parallel to the flat surface in question, the more it becomes apparent that the surface is actually flat.

Enter displacement mapping. But that's a story for another time. =)

  • 06.04.2004 9:06 PM PDT

SB-117

I wanna learn about displacement mapping if you have the time to post another interesting bunch of paragraphs :D

  • 06.04.2004 9:12 PM PDT
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Hey, I wasn't really off, o well. I said different parts of it. And i put up links.


I'd hate to go up against a mod, but I am going to challange your "everything gets a normal map".

My reasons:
1. They don't look as detailed as other games that use normal maps.
2. In the interview video they say "everything gets a bump map", not "everything gets a normal map".

So uhhhhh, was there a typo or do you have any examples?

I am really sure (85% sure) halo didn't have normal maps, if so it SURE doens't show at all. But it did have Bump maps.


[Edited on 6/4/2004 9:22:09 PM]

  • 06.04.2004 9:13 PM PDT
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Posted by: ash55
I wanna learn about displacement mapping if you have the time to post another interesting bunch of paragraphs :D


Displacement mapping is a gray scale picture put over an obeject. Then more polygons are added(for better end result normaly) and where the map is lighter is moves the geometry up and darker moves it down. At least thats what it is in lightwave, but for it to look good, again in lightwave, it has to be a high density mesh.

Hence the displacement, because it displaces the geometry.

small example

[Edited on 6/4/2004 9:20:37 PM]

  • 06.04.2004 9:16 PM PDT
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I have no idea what normal mapping is, but bump-mapping doesn't use polygons. It uses layers to overlay lighter and darker versions of the base color, to create the illusion of shading and reflection.

  • 06.04.2004 9:18 PM PDT

SB-117

Oh right I think I understand thanks for telling me..

  • 06.04.2004 9:19 PM PDT

-S

Posted by: lotec16
Posted by: ash55
I wanna learn about displacement mapping if you have the time to post another interesting bunch of paragraphs :D


Displacement mapping is a gray scale picture put over an obeject. Then more polygons are added(for better end result normaly) and where the map is lighter is moves the geometry up and darker moves it down. At least thats what it is in lightwave, but for it to look good, again in lightwave, it has to be a high density mesh.

Hence the displacement, because it displaces the geometry.

small example


Wrong displacement mapping.

  • 06.04.2004 9:30 PM PDT
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I googled it and i'm only getting examples of what I was saying. Any links please?


here is a result of my googling

  • 06.04.2004 9:34 PM PDT

gamer tag: CrazyChinchilla

how bout english people im not a nerd i have no idea what was just said something baout colors (which make life bettter) and hieght (which makes life better) so i dont give a crap i get 2 life better things


this is what a best buy executive told me once sounds like what you guys are talking about

the x vars are non compatible with y vars the speed difference will cause a slight lag and iff the game incorparates 3d yv squared vars then your system will terminate

  • 06.04.2004 9:40 PM PDT

-S

Click here.

Long story short- You take a low poly mesh, create a high poly, superdetailed mesh from it. Then, you extract displacement maps and apply them to the original low poly mesh. The displacement map acts like a normal map, creating the illusion of depth. However, it also changes the sillhouette of the model- without changing the polygon count. Incredible stuff.

  • 06.04.2004 9:42 PM PDT
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Thanks, that is increadible stuff, I can't wait to see that used in a game.



BTW, how was normal mapping implemented in halo and halo 2?

[Edited on 6/4/2004 9:47:26 PM]

  • 06.04.2004 9:46 PM PDT

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