Bungie.net Community
This topic has moved here: Subject: Should the mods have the power to ban?
  • Subject: Should the mods have the power to ban?
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • of 3
Subject: Should the mods have the power to ban?

yoo•zel- ('yoo-zhul): slang: vb.

Officium quod Fidelitas.

These forums are great, so are the private ones, I need to send Bungie something rare and exotic that they have never seen to commend them. Sure we’ve got a lot of trolls, but we can look past them. If everyone just ignored them, their ‘fun’ would be gone and so would they. I think that a ‘time out’ (maybe the mod could set the time) would be a very effective solution.

  • 06.08.2004 12:41 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I think that if someone risks being banned, they should be warned first, by a moderator, not someone who says they are but doesnt have the lable on their avatar. If they continue to be a dill hole then the should be temp banned. I dont think that banning someone from this stuff forever is ever fair. Im addicted to it.

  • 06.08.2004 9:19 AM PDT

-S

*snickers at the ICBM comment*

Contrary to what several denizens of the Flood might tell you, I do not like having to battle with people over the rules. I think that people need to understand that there are rules, and that they do need to follow them. To paraphrase Achronos, for example, the Off Topic forum doesn't mean the No Rules forum.

Someone requested (not in this thread, but another) that a no rules forum be made, and I believe that simply will not happen. As long as you come here, you'll be expected to follow the rules set by Bungie. And that's where we come in.

While I disagree with the point that we're ruining everyone's fun by locking or deleting stupid posts, I do understand the concern users have that the moderators may act too heavily handed. I think that perhaps the user ban option given to moderators should be balanced by the ability for users to send a direct complaint to Bungie, if they feel that they were unfairly punished.

However, I don't think that if a person files a dispute with a moderator, that they should be able to walk away from it and be fine if Bungie finds that the user is, in fact, in the wrong. After all, imagine how many people will spam the dispute option if it's there?

Here's my thought on the system in entirety.

The moderator bans a user for the 24 hour period. The moderater then goes to the HFCS chapter and logs the ban, complete with explanation and an example URL or two. When the user in question finds that they are banned, they are able to send a dispute to Bungie staff. There, they'll look over our entry, compare it with the user's notes, and decide if it was fair. If it wasn't fair, the ban will be lifted, and the mod will be reprimanded. If it WAS fair, the user's blacklisting will be extended by as long as a week.

Regardless as to whether the dispute system would be implemented or not (I can imagine it wouldn't be a specific system added so much as a "message Sketch or Achronos and ask for help" sort of thing, I'm sure the mods will log any bans they make for the sake of reference for other moderators and Bungie.

  • 06.08.2004 9:19 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Yes Shiska, I agree about the no rules forum never being created. This is Bungie. People Come here to talk about:
a-Bungie
b-Halo

If people want to talk about how to let your dog lick your -blam!- then they should move on down to the msn forums or something, not try to piss everyone off here.

  • 06.08.2004 9:34 AM PDT

yoo•zel- ('yoo-zhul): slang: vb.

Officium quod Fidelitas.

I think Shishka has hit upon some real gold, sure there would be a lot of clerical work to do this, but it gives the user a chance to prove his guilt or innocence. But then again, I didn’t think this was a Democracy.

But I think this idea would be a great way to back a tem. Ban up, because if a moderator just got mad at someone and banned them for no apparent reason, then the user would have his chance to set the record straight. And it would also put to use HFCS…

  • 06.08.2004 9:34 AM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

Posted by: Shishka
The moderator bans a user for the 24 hour period. The moderater then goes to the HFCS chapter and logs the ban, complete with explanation and an example URL or two. When the user in question finds that they are banned, they are able to send a dispute to Bungie staff. There, they'll look over our entry, compare it with the user's notes, and decide if it was fair. If it wasn't fair, the ban will be lifted, and the mod will be reprimanded. If it WAS fair, the user's blacklisting will be extended by as long as a week.


This system is already being made, sort of. Forum moderators is any chapter (bungie.net main is considered a "chapter" for these purposes) will be given two "extra" buttons. Well, at least one. The first button will be "Unleash ninjas [24 hours]". This will blacklist someone for 24 hours. Blacklisting, for those who don't know, means all user input to that group ends. No forums, no news input, no database access, etc. Banning is blocking reading the site at all, and is quite silly to do most of the time because you don't care if the user can read your public forum.

Anyway, the second button will be "Unleash Webmaster [7 days]". Same deal - auto blacklist for 7 days.

Obviously, admins of the group (those with the "real" blacklist power) can add to and remove any arbitrary user to their chapter's blacklist. With these buttons, moderators will be able to blacklist without having direct control over the blacklist, and always as a temporary case, just to cool people down.

This works real well, for two reasons. First, the system keeps track of your recent blacklist activity - for both the moderator and the users. So I can determine if it is being fair and if you're a repeat offender. Second, the blacklist error page already directs people to email an address if they dispute the blacklisting. This allows us to take appropriate action (although in most cases we trust our moderators to make the right call - that's their job and they're pretty good at it).

That's pretty much how I'm making it. Oh, and no penalties for losing an appeal... that's just mean, Shishka. :)

  • 06.08.2004 4:56 PM PDT

Spamming Bungie since 2004!
Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live.
GT-I Final I (i's)
Plz uze prper inglish n ur poasts!11! it makez it eazeer 2 reed!

Posted by: Achronos
Posted by: Shishka
The moderator bans a user for the 24 hour period. The moderater then goes to the HFCS chapter and logs the ban, complete with explanation and an example URL or two. When the user in question finds that they are banned, they are able to send a dispute to Bungie staff. There, they'll look over our entry, compare it with the user's notes, and decide if it was fair. If it wasn't fair, the ban will be lifted, and the mod will be reprimanded. If it WAS fair, the user's blacklisting will be extended by as long as a week.


This system is already being made, sort of. Forum moderators is any chapter (bungie.net main is considered a "chapter" for these purposes) will be given two "extra" buttons. Well, at least one. The first button will be "Unleash ninjas [24 hours]". This will blacklist someone for 24 hours. Blacklisting, for those who don't know, means all user input to that group ends. No forums, no news input, no database access, etc. Banning is blocking reading the site at all, and is quite silly to do most of the time because you don't care if the user can read your public forum.

Anyway, the second button will be "Unleash Webmaster [7 days]". Same deal - auto blacklist for 7 days.

Obviously, admins of the group (those with the "real" blacklist power) can add to and remove any arbitrary user to their chapter's blacklist. With these buttons, moderators will be able to blacklist without having direct control over the blacklist, and always as a temporary case, just to cool people down.

This works real well, for two reasons. First, the system keeps track of your recent blacklist activity - for both the moderator and the users. So I can determine if it is being fair and if you're a repeat offender. Second, the blacklist error page already directs people to email an address if they dispute the blacklisting. This allows us to take appropriate action (although in most cases we trust our moderators to make the right call - that's their job and they're pretty good at it).

That's pretty much how I'm making it. Oh, and no penalties for losing an appeal... that's just mean, Shishka. :)
Achronos is right, as he always is:) Anyway, this would work very well. Just I didn't see the thing about Bungie reviewing the ban. Wait, I just found it. Yes, that's a good system of moderator powers. How long would this idea to be implemented, anyway?

  • 06.08.2004 5:14 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Mods have a tough job here, and I salute them for it. They have to deal with idiots and off-topic stuff while keeping there cool. Our "debate" which was in no way a debate(stosh summed it up pretty well) should of never began. And I am almost positive you speak for no one when you say "Spam and arguing are the ONLY reasons this forum is remotely worth checking." These forums are great and were great before you came, and before the b.net relaunch(though not as great). I don't think many people would be here if it was just spam and arguments.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

That's pretty much how I'm making it. Oh, and no penalties for losing an appeal... that's just mean, Shishka. :)

Well, he has a point. Do you have any idea how much spam YOU would have to deal with without the penalty? Just a thought. Or it could be an optional penalty applied by you... then again since your the webmaster, you could just add them to the list manually, so nothing to worry about there.

As for IP banning/blacklisting, it is just goofy, as it is EASYIER to change an I than it is to make a new passport, and anyone who's read the Windows help file can do it providing they are using Windows... Wait a sec, I'm gonna go start an operating system poll... be back later. =)

  • 06.08.2004 5:23 PM PDT

yoo•zel- ('yoo-zhul): slang: vb.

Officium quod Fidelitas.

I'm going to stick with what stosh said, the more tools we can use to remove jerks the better.

  • 06.08.2004 5:54 PM PDT

mendicantVOTARY
Votary of the I AM

Magyar ODST 19th Shock Troops Battalion

Agreeing with Yoozel I am

  • 06.08.2004 5:59 PM PDT

-S

Posted by: Achronos

This system is already being made, sort of. Forum moderators is any chapter (bungie.net main is considered a "chapter" for these purposes) will be given two "extra" buttons. Well, at least one. The first button will be "Unleash ninjas [24 hours]". This will blacklist someone for 24 hours. Blacklisting, for those who don't know, means all user input to that group ends. No forums, no news input, no database access, etc. Banning is blocking reading the site at all, and is quite silly to do most of the time because you don't care if the user can read your public forum.

Anyway, the second button will be "Unleash Webmaster [7 days]". Same deal - auto blacklist for 7 days.

Obviously, admins of the group (those with the "real" blacklist power) can add to and remove any arbitrary user to their chapter's blacklist. With these buttons, moderators will be able to blacklist without having direct control over the blacklist, and always as a temporary case, just to cool people down.

This works real well, for two reasons. First, the system keeps track of your recent blacklist activity - for both the moderator and the users. So I can determine if it is being fair and if you're a repeat offender. Second, the blacklist error page already directs people to email an address if they dispute the blacklisting. This allows us to take appropriate action (although in most cases we trust our moderators to make the right call - that's their job and they're pretty good at it).


All this sounds excellent.

That's pretty much how I'm making it. Oh, and no penalties for losing an appeal... that's just mean, Shishka. :)

You're just mad because I thought of it first. =)

  • 06.08.2004 6:00 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

A little delayed, but I'm back on the thread by popular demand!
Posted by: stosh, my hero
Your conversation was stupid, off-topic, and anything but kind. You were basically attacking Live Killa because he said he wasn't childish or something. What kind of debate is that? All you wanted was attention. Conversations or debates such as those should be discussed privately via the b.net messaging system.


Why do you feel the need to degrade my conversation? Really, I was just enjoying myself with Live Killa. I never went past debate on what he was saying, which was, I might add, hypocritical, and never made any personal or particularly offensive attacks. Then again, pointing out somebody is using a false moral-highground is very meanspirited and unkind after all. I should have realized that sooner. . . now. . . I have the moderators wisdom. I see why it would have been so much better to make another "Ur FaV D00L WeLd1nG C0mb0!!11!1" thread. That's something we all need to seriously discuss!
[color=#003247]I heart Stosh!!!111!![/color]
Your 'attention' argument is just plain wrong. If people saw and enjoyed reading the little debate, then I think it made the forum a better place to be. If they found it pointless they could just as easily move on. I don't give a bologna if they read it or not. I just want to make my point to Live and afterwards see if you wanted to throw in a few words. *sob* I only want to be your friend Stosh!
[color=#003247]Marry me Stosh! Scipio 'n' Stosh 4ever![/color]
One last nit-pick at your final sentence. You can't call this blace b.net, Blizzard has already taken that for Battle.net. If you want my opinion, they were cool way before Bungie. Battle.net sounds cooler than Bungie.net too. . . so there.
[color=#003247]Blizzard RTS's are r0x0rZ my S0x0rZ![/color]
Now, all you people who quoted me and made your own little witty remarks, stop trying to kiss mod arse. It doesn't make you any more respected, right or intelligent. If anything, it just makes people who half-way realize what things really are around here just how little substance there is in whatever thoughts you post on this forum. I'm not insulting you as a person, but remarks like those just show you haven't put a lot of thought into what you're saying. Not living up to your full potential you might say.
[color=#003247]Your soul is MINE Live Killa! You shall not escape my swift justice[/color]
I just think mods, and everyone else for that matter, shouldn't take posts on this forum so seriously. Have fun with it. Argue a bit, throw in something stupid once in a while. Spammers are off-topic, but occasionally they're actually funny.
Live a little guys.
[color=#003247]*Scipio slips arm around Stosh and they begin to dance across the forum, spreading spam and off-topic argument on the wings of a sweet, sweet rainbow[/color]

[Edited on 6/8/2004 9:23:18 PM]

  • 06.08.2004 9:22 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Well if any mods . . . umm. . . didn't appreciate what I had to say, I'd like to direct you to my post in the Underground.
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=153054

  • 06.08.2004 10:34 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I don't think any one appreciates how you are trying to degrade stosh's words and b.net. I find it annoying when some one looks into every word to try and twist, find another meaing, and/or point out mistakes to try and mke them seem less smart and to hinder there points. And your kind of hypocritcical when you told all those that quoted your statement was kissing the mods arse, and then in the topic you linked us to you your self said you were kissing arse.

  • 06.09.2004 12:29 PM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

Posted by: ShishkaThat's pretty much how I'm making it. Oh, and no penalties for losing an appeal... that's just mean, Shishka. :)

You're just mad because I thought of it first. =)


No. It is just a bad idea because it is predictable. How can an overlord be evil without adding random acts in for fun? You're obviously an amateur. Heheheh...

  • 06.09.2004 2:00 PM PDT

yoo•zel- ('yoo-zhul): slang: vb.

Officium quod Fidelitas.

So true.

  • 06.09.2004 4:41 PM PDT

▀▄▀▄▀Project Lead of the OFFICIAL MBT Halo Trilogy Guide▄▀▄▀▄
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀MJOLNIR BATTLE TACTICS▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀

█ █ █ █ODST TACTICAL COMMAND
█ █ █ █ODST LEGENDS (CLAN)
█ █ █ █The Group of the Future....

this is a good thread.

[Edited on 6/10/2004 11:28:14 AM]

  • 06.10.2004 11:24 AM PDT

▀▄▀▄▀Project Lead of the OFFICIAL MBT Halo Trilogy Guide▄▀▄▀▄
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀MJOLNIR BATTLE TACTICS▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀

█ █ █ █ODST TACTICAL COMMAND
█ █ █ █ODST LEGENDS (CLAN)
█ █ █ █The Group of the Future....

Posted by: Shishka
Posted by: Achronos

This system is already being made, sort of. Forum moderators is any chapter (bungie.net main is considered a "chapter" for these purposes) will be given two "extra" buttons. Well, at least one. The first button will be "Unleash ninjas [24 hours]". This will blacklist someone for 24 hours. Blacklisting, for those who don't know, means all user input to that group ends. No forums, no news input, no database access, etc. Banning is blocking reading the site at all, and is quite silly to do most of the time because you don't care if the user can read your public forum.

Anyway, the second button will be "Unleash Webmaster [7 days]". Same deal - auto blacklist for 7 days.

Obviously, admins of the group (those with the "real" blacklist power) can add to and remove any arbitrary user to their chapter's blacklist. With these buttons, moderators will be able to blacklist without having direct control over the blacklist, and always as a temporary case, just to cool people down.

This works real well, for two reasons. First, the system keeps track of your recent blacklist activity - for both the moderator and the users. So I can determine if it is being fair and if you're a repeat offender. Second, the blacklist error page already directs people to email an address if they dispute the blacklisting. This allows us to take appropriate action (although in most cases we trust our moderators to make the right call - that's their job and they're pretty good at it).


All this sounds excellent.

That's pretty much how I'm making it. Oh, and no penalties for losing an appeal... that's just mean, Shishka. :)

You're just mad because I thought of it first. =)

Lol nice one Shishika. And I agree, the more anti-son-of-a--blam!- sticks you have, the better.

  • 06.10.2004 11:26 AM PDT

yoo•zel- ('yoo-zhul): slang: vb.

Officium quod Fidelitas.

True, the more tools we have to combat jerks the better. So people just deserve to be beaten with the stupid stick...

  • 06.10.2004 12:45 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

MODS should definatley have the power to ban. I believe the more they are respected the more respectable threads we will have. Apparently the lil kiddies on this forum have no respect and in turn get flamed or just start a big flame war. If a little fear is struck in these people the mods wouldnt have to go as far as banning.

  • 06.10.2004 2:56 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

There is no way to ban someone and that is a problem.
If the person is intelligent she could unban herself.

Oh wait, spammer and flammer are not intelligent, well i guess it remove the problem...

[Edited on 6/10/2004 6:13:34 PM]

  • 06.10.2004 6:13 PM PDT

Posted by: stosh
Posted by: Scipio
While banning can be circumvented, I think most people won't know the methods to do that.

Anyway, I think permanent IP bans would give mods too much power. ElBastard seems to have the right idea for that. I think mods have a tendency to take themselves and this forum a little too seriously (Stosh, you didn't even let me engage in a kindly debate. Shame on you.) Spam and arguing are the ONLY reasons this forum is remotely worth checking, and that's the same thing Mods have pledged themselves in a jihad against.

Don't let mods hurt our fun. They live here and are, therefore, incapable of rational thought.


Your conversation was stupid, off-topic, and anything but kind. You were basically attacking Live Killa because he said he wasn't childish or something. What kind of debate is that? All you wanted was attention. Conversations or debates such as those should be discussed privately via the b.net messaging system.

Anyway I don't believe we need the power to IP ban either. 5-24 hour account lockage works for me.

Posted by:Live Killa
Mods have a tough job here, and I salute them for it. They have to deal with idiots and off-topic stuff while keeping there cool. Our "debate" which was in no way a debate(stosh summed it up pretty well) should of never began. And I am almost positive you speak for no one when you say "Spam and arguing are the ONLY reasons this forum is remotely worth checking." These forums are great and were great before you came, and before the b.net relaunch(though not as great). I don't think many people would be here if it was just spam and arguments.
Now that is a helluva response you two. Bravo!

  • 06.11.2004 11:48 AM PDT

I swear I have never seen this many Mods and a B.Net Overlord post so much...

  • 06.11.2004 12:03 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

This is an email I sent to Bungie: Dear Monkey Suit Boy, Frankie, Sketch, or whoever the hell answers this email,

Achronos had mentioned on the forums that he was considering giving the moderators the power to at least temp ban. I can't support this decision enough! I'll explain why.

Lets time travel back a few years to the old, old pre-beta Star Wars Galaxies forums. You have three moderators, all paid by Sony Online Entertainment. Snaykinn, the leader of the three, Xahn, a part-time bodybuilder and generally corrupt moderator, and Quid, the wooden boy who dreamed of one day becoming real. These moderators kept peace on the forum, and everyone was happy.

But, then beta was announced! Now a whole slew of beta-lusting newbies showed up, and moderation became hard. Along with the newbies were -blam!-s, people who trolled the forums at night, causing havoc. The moderators, who shamefully possessed lives, weren't always on to protect the regular forum-goer. People would post hidden links to goatse and -blam!-, two of the most evil things on the internet.

If you do not know what goatse and -blam!- are, do not google them, unless you want to see the inside of a man's -blam!- or a large woman pooping on herself.

Basically, the forums became hell. This only got worse as it drew closer to release date. Finally at the time of release date the forums were thick with trolls, and the moderators were overworked. Many times if someone went on a goatse linking spree (oftentimes hiding it in things like [url=(goatse link)]www.superfunny.com/catholicninjas[/url]) we'd have to wait until the next morning to clean it up.

My point is that I predict that the closer Halo 2 gets to release the more chaotic the forums will become. If something goes down late at night and no one but the mods are on, they won't have the powers necessary to stop it. They'd basically have to stay up all night closing threads and editing posts instead of simply being able to IP ban a person and be done with it. I've talked with both moderators and they are in agreement with me on this.

To keep the forums clean you need to give them more abilities. It's only going to get worse.

-ObbiQuiet


This is the response I got:

As I said in the forums, a temp ban is probably all the extra they'll
get for now. Unfortunately, IP banning doesn't work due to the nature
of how most people get IPs. But blacklisting does work. The mods can
delete and lock threads/posts quite easily right now. The first problem
is that they need to be able to stop someone's "fun" with a blacklist
quickly so they can't post more crap. That will probably be added
eventually. The second is that more moderators need to be available. That
is being worked on by SketchFactor.

Trust me, there is a reason why the "new hotness" site launched many
months ahead of Halo 2's release - we knew there would be kinks in the
system, and this is one of them. It will work out.

  • 06.11.2004 12:09 PM PDT

  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • of 3