Halo: Combat Evolved Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Please help a student in need (poss spoilers of Halo/Halo 2)
  • Subject: Please help a student in need (poss spoilers of Halo/Halo 2)
Subject: Please help a student in need (poss spoilers of Halo/Halo 2)

Obviously, religion has a huge influence upon our culture and has been making headlines regarding Christmas nativities up to Islamic Extremism. The Covies are not simply a group of aliens seeking power or resources, they are driven by religion.

  • 12.09.2004 6:40 AM PDT

Another one for you. You also have some nice caste elements working within the Covenant ranks. It could even be looked at as racism/speciesism.

The Grunts are almost slave like, relegated to catching bullets while the Elites command.

  • 12.09.2004 6:46 AM PDT
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it was the religious side of the game that actually made me think it was possible to go into this kinda depth. Without that my argument would seem very contrived. Obviously the extreme religious reasoning behind the covenant cause can easily be linked to contemporary american culture, but to do so on this forum would probably be considered too political

  • 12.09.2004 6:49 AM PDT
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I think the differences between the Grunts / Brutes / Elites / Prophets is more related to class than race.

  • 12.09.2004 6:54 AM PDT
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Posted by: twenty12
I think the differences between the Grunts / Brutes / Elites / Prophets is more related to class than race.

Sure, but the classes are made up of each different species. Elites/Brutes/Prophets are all different species that have joined the Covenant.

  • 12.09.2004 6:57 AM PDT
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the class/caste system is interesting, I hadn't thought of that as a possible link to american culture. Do you think that the character design itself is relevant?

  • 12.09.2004 7:00 AM PDT

Posted by: LilPeepsFirst
the class/caste system is interesting, I hadn't thought of that as a possible link to american culture. Do you think that the character design itself is relevant?


Sure. The Elites (the name fits in this contexy, eh?) are tall and fit, exuding power and grace. The Grunts are small and goofy with nasally voices.

It's like the Lambdas and the Tri-Lambs from Revenge of the Nerds.

In the context of the Covenant, the weak but intelligent species are the leaders, the intelligent and physically capable are the commanders and honored guards, and the short and meek are workers and front line fighters.

In American culture physical stature and beauty plays a huge role in determining our lot in life.

  • 12.09.2004 7:32 AM PDT
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cool, well that's a load of cool sociological relevances, i guess now i'd like to move on to how the game is a reflection of popular culture, ie the ways in which other mass media have influenced it, how the fears and interests of the average American gamer have been used within the game. An example of this that i came up with is the titling of the chapters, and how most are plays on, or direct quotes of American sayings. Can anyone think of any other examples?

  • 12.09.2004 8:15 AM PDT
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Posted by: LilPeepsFirst
I know it sounds long winded and stuffy, but basically I am trying to prove the way in which Halo and Halo 2 reflect American culture and values at the time they were produced. An example of this would be the way in which the gung-ho heroics against an evil race in the first game are replaced by a more balanced perspective of the enemy in halo 2, which was released in a post iraq liberalist America


first of all, let me say that i'm astonished that you are actually getting usable feedback by posting something so intellectual on this forum, which is usually populated by pre-teen fanboys.

secondly, i tend to disagree with your ideas that a post-iraq america is "liberalist." in fact, president george w. bush, anything but a liberal candidate, was reelected early last month, which seems to be to insinuate a consistently conservative viewpoint among the populace. just tossin in my two cents.

  • 12.09.2004 8:25 AM PDT
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Posted by: Adonis176834

first of all, let me say that i'm astonished that you are actually getting usable feedback by posting something so intellectual on this forum, which is usually populated by pre-teen fanboys.

secondly, i tend to disagree with your ideas that a post-iraq america is "liberalist." in fact, president george w. bush, anything but a liberal candidate, was reelected early last month, which seems to be to insinuate a consistently conservative viewpoint among the populace. just tossin in my two cents.


A very fair point, perhaps I should have phrased that 'more liberalist', as shown by the rising popularity of Michael Moore and other democrat celebrities and rising opposition to the Iraq war. I'm being really careful to not let this thread go into politics, as that is expressly against forum rules, and I am getting some really useful feedback. I do appreciate your opinion however, and I hope you will not be offended if I ask that we pull this thread away from politics

  • 12.09.2004 8:34 AM PDT

Bungie brought in pop bands for the soundtrack, that is certainly a reflection of pop culture at a basic level.

The gameplay itself is loaded with "instant gratification" type elements that pervade our culture. Instant kills with the sword and verbal confirmation of killing sprees both server to stroke our egos.

Also, there is a fair amount of humor interjected into the game, in the titles and dialogue. Humor plays a very central role in our culture at the present and can be seen in vertually every commerical, movie, and music video being produced.

You also have identity issues. Bungie included a way to devise a individual symbol to identify yourself and also included a means to join a group. Both individual and group identity are powerful elements of our culture, especially within popular culture; clicks, clubs, etc.

  • 12.09.2004 10:01 AM PDT
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All I can say all who loves the video game and is in school are screwed or have a hard time. Video games in general are like nicotine, when you are young it's hard to keep grades up and play video games and it's even harder to drop playing video games to do school work. Overall, Americans and technonolgy in general at a young age do not combine.

Please don't reply angrily to all you youngians who feel "offended"

  • 12.09.2004 10:19 AM PDT
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Posted by: Raggin Rabbi
All I can say all who loves the video game and is in school are screwed or have a hard time. Video games in general are like nicotine, when you are young it's hard to keep grades up and play video games and it's even harder to drop playing video games to do school work. Overall, Americans and technonolgy in general at a young age do not combine.

Please don't reply angrily to all you youngians who feel "offended"


I'm quite proud it took so long for someone to start spamming. Thanks to everyone so far who helped me, especially Urkitekt (sorry if i miss spelled your name). I'd love to keep going with the ideas, and all I can say to you Rabbi is read the first post... i am a student studying videogames, therefore I am actually in the process of doing work... right now. If anyone has any ideas as to the relevance of American culture on halo then please feel free to post. Any views on differences between the two games, and how these might be explained by American culture itself changing?

  • 12.09.2004 10:25 AM PDT

Posted by: Raggin Rabbi
Video games in general are like nicotine.


No, video games are much harder to keep lit.

  • 12.09.2004 10:32 AM PDT
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Posted by: The Urkitect
Posted by: Raggin Rabbi
Video games in general are like nicotine.


No, video games are much harder to keep lit.


lol, this was going so well....

  • 12.10.2004 3:34 AM PDT
Subject: Please help a student in need (poss spoilers of Halo/Halo 2)
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Hi, I'm a student studying Computer Games Design in the UK. I am planning a presentation entitled 'Halo: the influence of culture and context on videogame design'.

I know it sounds long winded and stuffy, but basically I am trying to prove the way in which Halo and Halo 2 reflect American culture and values at the time they were produced. An example of this would be the way in which the gung-ho heroics against an evil race in the first game are replaced by a more balanced perspective of the enemy in halo 2, which was released in a post iraq liberalist America

I would really appreciate any feedback on this subject, or any examples from either game that would back up a point. I'd also appreciate it if we could keep this topic non-political and spam free so it doesn't get blocked or removed by the mods.

It'd be great if this topic could become sticky so I can get plenty of feedback

  • 12.09.2004 6:28 AM PDT
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Don't how politically correct American culture dictates that all races are to be included. Bungie's idea of the future isn't that Earth was conquered by one race, but rather that we all managed to band together, so you've got all different races of marines.

  • 12.10.2004 9:04 AM PDT
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I'd like to thank everyone who helped out with this topic, and I've recieved a lot of really useful feedback. If anyone has anything else they'd like to add then please feel free, I'll check back on this topic over the comming days.

Thanks again, and all those that sent constructive comments will be credited in the presentation

  • 12.11.2004 4:54 AM PDT
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Looking at our world now, we have religious conflicts. Everyone wants to be the most powerful country blah blah blah. In Halo, the whole world puts aside there differences and unites against a bigger outside threat..the covenant. Perhaps Bungies trying the tell the world something. Put aside your differences and come together. Cause if Halo was a true story and the Covenant were to attck us right now...we wouldn't stand a chance. We are too busy fighting eachother. Unite...focus on advancing technology and space travel so we can find those covenant bastards before they find us.

Also, halo 2's scenery is a lot different that the first one. Even on the second ring...the structures seem a little more earth related. We can all draw our onw conclusions as to the significance of fighting aliens on territory that looks more familiar.

  • 12.12.2004 2:45 PM PDT
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Michael Moore was driven to popularity by liberal media and a smaller number of liberal activists. Conservatism has a larger representation in America. As far as sociological parallels, this is bunk. You can draw parallels between the world and anything you find. This is why that hack Nostradamus is still around in the tabloids. There isn't much of a caste system in America as I can personally attest to. I started out poor and educated by our public school system. I went to a university on a government grant and from there to the military. I now own my own company and live far above what my parents ever dreamed of. This is not possible in a caste system. As far as pop culture go, Americans like shoot-em-up games and that's what this is. I don't believe that the game creators tried to make any statements with it besides, "We make cool games, have fun with them." And humor is a big part of American culture? Try human culture. We in the States don't have a corner on jokes and its an untraveled person who thinks that we do. Give me a break, I am sure people at Bungie read this stuff and laugh. I know I do...

  • 12.13.2004 7:27 AM PDT
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Posted by: Hobart007
Michael Moore was driven to popularity by liberal media and a smaller number of liberal activists. Conservatism has a larger representation in America. As far as sociological parallels, this is bunk. You can draw parallels between the world and anything you find. This is why that hack Nostradamus is still around in the tabloids. There isn't much of a caste system in America as I can personally attest to. I started out poor and educated by our public school system. I went to a university on a government grant and from there to the military. I now own my own company and live far above what my parents ever dreamed of. This is not possible in a caste system. As far as pop culture go, Americans like shoot-em-up games and that's what this is. I don't believe that the game creators tried to make any statements with it besides, "We make cool games, have fun with them." And humor is a big part of American culture? Try human culture. We in the States don't have a corner on jokes and its an untraveled person who thinks that we do. Give me a break, I am sure people at Bungie read this stuff and laugh. I know I do...


OK, I feel the need to respond to this post. I will do so by addressing each of the points you raised against my research

1) Rising liberalism in the US
To be honest this is only a minor element, but the emotional and even political state of gamers can be linked clearly to games sales, just look at the enormous rise in war game sales after 9/11. The fact that Halo 2 gives a much more balanced view of the enemy does reflect a growing opposition in America to the shoot first, ask questions later mentality (which filled Halo 1).

2) Caste systems
You missunderstand what people are reffering to as "Caste" in American culture. They are not reffering to an obvious system of class. The differences between weak and strong, rich and poor etc are obvious when compared to other countries in the western world, such as here in the UK.

3) The influence of pop culture
This is possibly the part of your argument I agree least with, to claim that a game is devoid of influences from pop culture is ridiculous. Unless the developers at Bungie don't watch movies, listen to music, play other games or actually step out into the world then of course there will be elements of pop-culture in the game. This is incredibly obvious when you hold up Halo against British or Japaneese games, which are very different in their influences.

4) Bungie making statements
I agree with you on this one, I strongly doubt too that Bungie are secretly trying to influencing people (despite their constant references to building an army and planning a revolution :)) They are however influenced themselves, as is the point of my research.

5) Humour
Of course we have humour in countries other than America. We do however have a different sense of humour. As an outsider to American culture it is clear to players here and in other countries that Halo uses humour that is especially prevelant in American TV and film (such as inuendo and slapstick).

6) Bungie laughing at us
Good for them, as long as forum members have enjoyed posting on this thread, and I do well in my presentation, I'm happy. Plus maybe they will be more likely to remember me whenI graduate and come looking for a job

  • 12.15.2004 11:03 AM PDT