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I do not appreciate B.Net Group solicitation. If you ignore this and send me an invitation anyway, I will block communications with you.
Posted by: Ogier
That is huge, so to keep this down to manageable size, I'm just going to quote small bits to indicate what I'm rebutting.I shall do the same.
Really? ya rly. The theory isn't built around the planet being Mars, it's built around Halo leading into Marathon.As I previously said, I am not defending the OPs theory. I am however clearing up the obvious misconceptions that you are putting forward. It is important, that regardless of what stance you take on the matter, you consider every possible outcome except for those that have been factually proven false. Additionally (and I removed the quote to save space, but I'll respond anyhow), I don't have a fixation on Mars being the Legendary Ending planet, either. Please take my words at face value, as they are blunt and to the point, and I offer not vague implication that I am stating anything other than what I am. Mars was linked to the Legendary Ending planet via IRIS. Whether or not it is Mars, or Mars' moon, does not matter. They were linked, and that is a fact. I am not purporting anything else.
Onyx. You're arguing semantics vs semantics with semantics. You want to call it "the micro Dyson Sphere" instead of Onyx, because there's no dirt, fine by me. I'll keep calling it Onyx instead of "that micro Dyson Sphere."Actually, that isn't semantics. The micro-Dyson Sphere is what is inside of the remaining sentinel lattice, and wasn't physically part of Onyx as it is simply a portal to the Shield World. When I said that I could easily argue semantics back, I was referring to the sentinel lattice, which, in my opinion, are simply... remaining sentinels. Onyx and the micro Dyson Sphere are two separate entities due to the fact that it does not physically reside as a part of the planet, before or after destruction. I wasn't actually arguing, I was trying to convey the point that such a silly argument over a title does absolutely nothing for our debate. I hope I've cleared that up for you.
The OP doesn't care whether Onyx exploded or flaked away to reveal Sentinels, he's asserting that Onyx is not a possibility for the legendary planet. Discarding the location argument for now, there's nothing preventing it from being Onyx. I don't remember exactly how small this Dyson Sphere is, but I take "micro" to mean "fits inside a planet" rather than a solar system (at least, relative to the outside), and not "fits inside Rhode Island." So, off the top of my head, I'll say this swarm of Sentinels is about half the diameter of the original planet. Take those trillions of 3m long rods and view them from space, you aren't going to see the intricate, crystalline structure; you're going to see a sphere. What do you see in the legendary ending? A sphere. Adding the location argument back in, it can't be "the structure formerly known as Onyx," unless... it moved.Actually, the size of the micro-Dyson Sphere itself was only a few meters in diameter, so actually, it could fit inside of my bedroom. However, that is kind of moot considering that the remaining sentinel lattice was comprised of trillions of sentinels, which could in fact formulate an object of a planetary size. However, the design of the lattice is clearly stated in the book when in the perspective of a UNSC ship that is distanced from Onyx, which means that the crystalline, chain-link patterns were viewable that far away. It doesn't matter that the sentinels were three-meters tall because they formulated those patterns by combining with one another in rows, not by clumping into a sphere. Here's an excerpt from the book itself:
Ghosts of Onyx, Page 377, 378
Onyx shattered and the surface exploded into space. Obscured by layers of dust and fire, a blazing pattern emerged beneath: crosses and lines and dots. (Note: Keep in mind that this pattern was viewed before they upped viewscreen magnification.)
"Magnification factor one thousand," Lash ordered.
Yang was frozen. Waters bent over and tapped in the command. The view on-screen blinked and stepped closer--past boiling air, clouds, tumbling mountains--zoming to ground level, revealing a lattice of three-meter-long rods and half-meter blazing red spheres that hovered between them, forming a crystalline structure.
"Back it off," Lash said.
The view pulled back and showed that this drone-constructed scaffolding stretched over kilometers . . . they had been under every landmass, every ocean . . . under the entire surface--orderly linked rows like the carbon bonds of an infinite polymer chain, or an immense colony of interlinked army ants. (Note: They've backed out the viewscreen now, revealing how far the sentinels stretch around.)
With that quote, it is clear that a crewmen of a UNSC ship, some distance away from Onyx, were able to see the patterns with their own eyes before having to even use magnification. I can't say how close or how far they were, but considering that we can clearly see mechanical-like textures on the surface of the Legendary Ending planet that doesn't match up to the description from the novel, it would also be easy to deduce that it is no longer the same lattice of sentinels. Is it possible? Sure, anything is possible. However, the probability when considering the facts above is incredibly low. Unless of course, you assert that changes or rebuilding has taken place. As I said, I like to stay subjective on the matter :)
Location. This one's short. Before before credits: blue cloud. Legendary ending: blue cloud. There's no blue nebula anywhere near our solar system. Meaning there's no possible way this is Mars, Marathon timeline or not. The fact that the Master Chief is not dead is not concrete proof that they went through the portal. The unfinished Halo didn't fire as much as it did blow up and take the Ark down with it.A blue nebula means they are in the same location? I'll get to this point further below when you wrongfully accuse me of taking my own quote from Cortana out of context, when, ironically, it is you who did so. Also, once again, I am not saying Mars is the planetoid. I merely said that the planetoid, and the Mars thermal image are linked. I wonder how many times I'll have to reiterate this before you'll understand that.
"We made it through just as it collapsed. Well, some of us made it." FTFY. We are watching the same cutscene here, right? Cortana is asserting they did not make it through the portal, only the Arbiter did. See how the context changes when you actually watch the cutscene you're taking your evidence from?I've beaten the game several times, I've heard the dialogue even more times, and I understand the context better than you do, apparently.
Her quote is not signifying that the Arbiter made it through, and that they did not. When she says, "We made it though just as it collapsed," you can hear the relief in her voice. Are you saying you think she is relieved that the Arbiter made it through, and they did not? Subsequently, her following statement, "Well, some of us made it," had a lamenting sorrow as well. We could debate Jen Taylor's performance to death, however, so let me refresh your memory on a few things.
Let's start with a quick English lesson: If a single person does something, and you and a friend do not do the same thing, you do not say, "We did it. Well, some of us did." The word "we" indicates a conjoined plural into a singular. In short: More than one. Furthermore, if the person speaking is not part of the action being committed, then the word "We" is grammatically incorrect. "We" also indicates that the subject using said word is part of whatever they are describing.
You don't substitute "we" for "he, she, it, you" or anything else. "We", in the context of two people conversing alone, indicates said two people. I find it kind of ridiculous that you are either blatantly ignoring correct English, or simply missed it. However, you could then say that AIs don't always use proper grammar, or that the dialogue was written in that manner, and so let me bring you to another point:
The Ark is outside of the Milky Way galaxy. This is noted several times in the game, first as noted by the conversation between Master Chief and 343 Guilty Spark when they find the Cartographer:
The Ark, Halo 3 Campaign
Master Chief: "That's... our galaxy. We're beyond the rim!"
343 Guilty Spark: "2 to the 18th light years from the galactic center, to be precise."
Additionally, when we are present on the Ark, we also see the Milky Way galaxy in the sky. This fact leads me to my next point:
Cortana drops a beacon for the UNSC to find outside of their galaxy? I'm sorry, but an AI is not that stupid, especially not Cortana. The UNSC is not even capable of (or simply has not pursued) inter-galactic travel or inter-galactic communications, even with their rather elementary understanding of slipspace travel. There is no way in hell that the UNSC is going to pick up their beacon in a matter of years.
She dropped that beacon because she thinks they made it through the portal. Also as I said in my original response to your own, everything on The Ark's side of the portal was destroyed, save the Ark itself which is presumed to have damaged significantly, but not completely destroyed.
Arguing this point is going to do nothing but discredit you, Ogier. I hope you come to your senses on this one, because this should have been incredibly obvious to you to begin with. Moving on...
So much for keeping this short and concise. Posting the rest in another response.
[Edited on 08.21.2008 2:51 AM PDT]