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  • Subject: I have 100% Proof of where master chief is.
Subject: I have 100% Proof of where master chief is.

lallalala

  • 08.18.2008 9:42 AM PDT
Subject: Where in the world in Master Chief?. An extensive scientific theory.

Music Tames The Savage Beast

A very good theory, as another poster said, entirely plausible, well done, that must have taken hours to compile all that data.

  • 08.21.2008 1:16 AM PDT
Subject: I have 100% Proof of where master chief is. NEW PROOF!!!!!
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Posted by: Ogier
That is huge, so to keep this down to manageable size, I'm just going to quote small bits to indicate what I'm rebutting.
I shall do the same.

Really? ya rly. The theory isn't built around the planet being Mars, it's built around Halo leading into Marathon.As I previously said, I am not defending the OPs theory. I am however clearing up the obvious misconceptions that you are putting forward. It is important, that regardless of what stance you take on the matter, you consider every possible outcome except for those that have been factually proven false. Additionally (and I removed the quote to save space, but I'll respond anyhow), I don't have a fixation on Mars being the Legendary Ending planet, either. Please take my words at face value, as they are blunt and to the point, and I offer not vague implication that I am stating anything other than what I am. Mars was linked to the Legendary Ending planet via IRIS. Whether or not it is Mars, or Mars' moon, does not matter. They were linked, and that is a fact. I am not purporting anything else.

Onyx. You're arguing semantics vs semantics with semantics. You want to call it "the micro Dyson Sphere" instead of Onyx, because there's no dirt, fine by me. I'll keep calling it Onyx instead of "that micro Dyson Sphere."Actually, that isn't semantics. The micro-Dyson Sphere is what is inside of the remaining sentinel lattice, and wasn't physically part of Onyx as it is simply a portal to the Shield World. When I said that I could easily argue semantics back, I was referring to the sentinel lattice, which, in my opinion, are simply... remaining sentinels. Onyx and the micro Dyson Sphere are two separate entities due to the fact that it does not physically reside as a part of the planet, before or after destruction. I wasn't actually arguing, I was trying to convey the point that such a silly argument over a title does absolutely nothing for our debate. I hope I've cleared that up for you.

The OP doesn't care whether Onyx exploded or flaked away to reveal Sentinels, he's asserting that Onyx is not a possibility for the legendary planet. Discarding the location argument for now, there's nothing preventing it from being Onyx. I don't remember exactly how small this Dyson Sphere is, but I take "micro" to mean "fits inside a planet" rather than a solar system (at least, relative to the outside), and not "fits inside Rhode Island." So, off the top of my head, I'll say this swarm of Sentinels is about half the diameter of the original planet. Take those trillions of 3m long rods and view them from space, you aren't going to see the intricate, crystalline structure; you're going to see a sphere. What do you see in the legendary ending? A sphere. Adding the location argument back in, it can't be "the structure formerly known as Onyx," unless... it moved.Actually, the size of the micro-Dyson Sphere itself was only a few meters in diameter, so actually, it could fit inside of my bedroom. However, that is kind of moot considering that the remaining sentinel lattice was comprised of trillions of sentinels, which could in fact formulate an object of a planetary size. However, the design of the lattice is clearly stated in the book when in the perspective of a UNSC ship that is distanced from Onyx, which means that the crystalline, chain-link patterns were viewable that far away. It doesn't matter that the sentinels were three-meters tall because they formulated those patterns by combining with one another in rows, not by clumping into a sphere. Here's an excerpt from the book itself:

Ghosts of Onyx, Page 377, 378
Onyx shattered and the surface exploded into space. Obscured by layers of dust and fire, a blazing pattern emerged beneath: crosses and lines and dots. (Note: Keep in mind that this pattern was viewed before they upped viewscreen magnification.)

"Magnification factor one thousand," Lash ordered.

Yang was frozen. Waters bent over and tapped in the command. The view on-screen blinked and stepped closer--past boiling air, clouds, tumbling mountains--zoming to ground level, revealing a lattice of three-meter-long rods and half-meter blazing red spheres that hovered between them, forming a crystalline structure.

"Back it off," Lash said.

The view pulled back and showed that this drone-constructed scaffolding stretched over kilometers . . . they had been under every landmass, every ocean . . . under the entire surface--orderly linked rows like the carbon bonds of an infinite polymer chain, or an immense colony of interlinked army ants. (Note: They've backed out the viewscreen now, revealing how far the sentinels stretch around.)


With that quote, it is clear that a crewmen of a UNSC ship, some distance away from Onyx, were able to see the patterns with their own eyes before having to even use magnification. I can't say how close or how far they were, but considering that we can clearly see mechanical-like textures on the surface of the Legendary Ending planet that doesn't match up to the description from the novel, it would also be easy to deduce that it is no longer the same lattice of sentinels. Is it possible? Sure, anything is possible. However, the probability when considering the facts above is incredibly low. Unless of course, you assert that changes or rebuilding has taken place. As I said, I like to stay subjective on the matter :)

Location. This one's short. Before before credits: blue cloud. Legendary ending: blue cloud. There's no blue nebula anywhere near our solar system. Meaning there's no possible way this is Mars, Marathon timeline or not. The fact that the Master Chief is not dead is not concrete proof that they went through the portal. The unfinished Halo didn't fire as much as it did blow up and take the Ark down with it.A blue nebula means they are in the same location? I'll get to this point further below when you wrongfully accuse me of taking my own quote from Cortana out of context, when, ironically, it is you who did so. Also, once again, I am not saying Mars is the planetoid. I merely said that the planetoid, and the Mars thermal image are linked. I wonder how many times I'll have to reiterate this before you'll understand that.

"We made it through just as it collapsed. Well, some of us made it." FTFY. We are watching the same cutscene here, right? Cortana is asserting they did not make it through the portal, only the Arbiter did. See how the context changes when you actually watch the cutscene you're taking your evidence from?I've beaten the game several times, I've heard the dialogue even more times, and I understand the context better than you do, apparently.

Her quote is not signifying that the Arbiter made it through, and that they did not. When she says, "We made it though just as it collapsed," you can hear the relief in her voice. Are you saying you think she is relieved that the Arbiter made it through, and they did not? Subsequently, her following statement, "Well, some of us made it," had a lamenting sorrow as well. We could debate Jen Taylor's performance to death, however, so let me refresh your memory on a few things.

Let's start with a quick English lesson: If a single person does something, and you and a friend do not do the same thing, you do not say, "We did it. Well, some of us did." The word "we" indicates a conjoined plural into a singular. In short: More than one. Furthermore, if the person speaking is not part of the action being committed, then the word "We" is grammatically incorrect. "We" also indicates that the subject using said word is part of whatever they are describing.

You don't substitute "we" for "he, she, it, you" or anything else. "We", in the context of two people conversing alone, indicates said two people. I find it kind of ridiculous that you are either blatantly ignoring correct English, or simply missed it. However, you could then say that AIs don't always use proper grammar, or that the dialogue was written in that manner, and so let me bring you to another point:

The Ark is outside of the Milky Way galaxy. This is noted several times in the game, first as noted by the conversation between Master Chief and 343 Guilty Spark when they find the Cartographer:

The Ark, Halo 3 Campaign
Master Chief: "That's... our galaxy. We're beyond the rim!"

343 Guilty Spark: "2 to the 18th light years from the galactic center, to be precise."


Additionally, when we are present on the Ark, we also see the Milky Way galaxy in the sky. This fact leads me to my next point:

Cortana drops a beacon for the UNSC to find outside of their galaxy? I'm sorry, but an AI is not that stupid, especially not Cortana. The UNSC is not even capable of (or simply has not pursued) inter-galactic travel or inter-galactic communications, even with their rather elementary understanding of slipspace travel. There is no way in hell that the UNSC is going to pick up their beacon in a matter of years.

She dropped that beacon because she thinks they made it through the portal. Also as I said in my original response to your own, everything on The Ark's side of the portal was destroyed, save the Ark itself which is presumed to have damaged significantly, but not completely destroyed.

Arguing this point is going to do nothing but discredit you, Ogier. I hope you come to your senses on this one, because this should have been incredibly obvious to you to begin with. Moving on...

So much for keeping this short and concise. Posting the rest in another response.

[Edited on 08.21.2008 2:51 AM PDT]

  • 08.21.2008 2:42 AM PDT
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Unless you are both a theoretical physicist as well as a Bungie staff writer, you are not fit to make that kind of assessment.Then you should skip this next paragraph, because I go so far as to use common sense and previously defined story elements. I'm such a radical.

The Forerunner had a grasp of instantaneous Slipspace travel, as evidenced in GoO. Why would they use this technology for the Onyx construct and not the most important transit mechanism they'd ever created, the portal? It's clear from the cutscenes between Floodgate and The Ark that it was instantaneous. Since the travel is instantaneous, this Forerunner method should really be coined Foldspace. Nothing between. Like a pair of scissors, stick something in it and close it and you'll get nothing in-between, just the two pieces. If there is something in-between, it's a few molecules' thickness spread over however many light years; not some long, spacious tunnel convenient for losing ships in.
That is speculative, Ogier. Instantaneous slipspace travel does not mean that there is no passageway. It can mean that, but it can also mean that you travel through said passageway instantaneously. My point is that neither you nor myself are able to make that kind of judgment, because it has never been explained in the Haloverse, nor in real life. Instantaneous means occurance within an instant. It doesn't rule out "in-between", and assuming it does is somewhat irrational (or "radical", if you like).

"But I would have my masters know that I have changed.
And you shall be my example."
Like you just said, anything to do with this is speculative. Why do heroes swear vengeance for dead family (e.g. Inigo Montoya)? Why do we award medals of honor posthumously? In the same way, Mendicant Bias attempts to atone by helping the MC escape the ring. If anything, I think it shows a Forerunner belief in an afterlife, and common sense dictates the portal is a hard link between Earth and the Ark, not anything controlled by software.
How exactly does common sense dictate how the portal works? There is no common sense regarding the portal, because we know nothing of its mechanics. Considering Mendicant Bias' malicious resourcefulness in the past, apparently their finest AI accomplishment before Offensive Bias, it is safe to assume that he isn't just some piece of "software". Can he control the Ark? I don't know. I was simply putting the idea forward, because as I said, all aspects of the situation should be considered.

I have not played, nor have I researched Marathon Infinity in great depth, and so I have no place to comment on this.Then why are you even arguing? The whole theory is about how the Master Chief becomes the Marathon marine, and you've chosen a small piece of the counter-argument to attack on the basis of a picture of Mars, instead of the cardinal argument of "(MC==MM)?"I'm not arguing against your position that it is incorrect, Ogier. I said this in the very first sentence of my initial reply to you. I like the discussion, however, because it can be very informative and help me advance my own views on what may have happened or what will happen, and so when someone comes here posting a bunch of jumbled speculation in an attempt to discredit a theory, I will, at the very least, clear up misconceptions.

does not stop the possibility of Master Chief, potentially (andst likely) a completely separate entity from traversing into the Marathon universe (or some other)Then what would be the point? That's like writing a story set in the MGS universe that has nothing to do with the Les Enfants Terribles or Metal Gear, or set in the 100 Acre Woods and having nothing to do with Winnie the Pooh. If the story has nothing to do with the Marathon, there's no reason to complicate things with the unneeded prologue elements of switching timelines just because you can. If any Halo 4 starts with a Star Wars-styled text scroll saying, "The Master Chief has traveled to the parallel Marathon timeline, of which the Marathon has no part in this story. So let's get killing!" I will break my freaking tv.I never said it would be good writing. I agree that it would be a pretty terrible way to link the two if at all. I'm, once again... *sigh* producing the previously-mentioned speculations and theories for consideration.

The same place that the thermal readings were on the image is the same place that the light emanated from in the Legendary Ending.There's only so many ways you can present a dramatic sunrise in space. Our own sun rises in the east, which is why the majority of the time you will see it represented coming over the right side of the planet. It's the way the human mind is configured. That the position of the heat blotch is roughly the position of the star is the only evidence the Mars connection has. There is more evidence and actual facts to prove that it is not Mars.So are you saying that they put it there, conveniently in the exact same, proportionate location as the IRIS image based on the fact that our sun rises in the East? Are you thereby also concluding that the IRIS thermal image has no relevance whatsoever? That's a bit ridiculous, if so. The brain isn't "wired" to see a sun rising in the East, or light emanating from a planet on the right. It might be familiar to us because of our existence on Earth, but it isn't going to suddenly be any less interesting, any more complex, or mindboggling to see. Anyhow, there has yet to be any actual facts to prove that it isn't Mars (or "a" Mars), but the same can be said for the opposition (and the OP's argument). The connection is there. That is all I was trying to say, because you practically wrote off the connection in your initial response to this thread.


Deductions:
Onyx is still a possibility.
Onyx will always be a possibility, because the writers can do what they want. However, if you want to come to a final conclusion based on actual commense sense by the evidence I provided above, then Onyx is not a possibility. Not in a completely relative state.
It can't be Mars because MB can't control a hard-linked portal.It is never explained how much power Mendicant Bias has, and so assuming he has no power over the workings of the Ark has no merit, but you can deduce as you will, I suppose.
It can't be Mars because the portal is not a Slipspace tunnel, but a "Foldspace" teleporter.This deduction of "Foldspace" however, was materialized by your own mind. Never has anything of that sort been explained (or even hinted at) within the Haloverse, and your own ideas on how it works does not make said hypothesis credible (because honestly, there is no merit for it to even be a theory).
It can't be Mars because introducing unnecessary complexity to a story line, when the primary reason for adding that complexity left 80 years ago, is stupid.Stupidity doesn't rule things out, but I agree.


Facts:
It can't be Mars because there's no blue nebula in our solar system.
There's also no onslaught of religiously radical or parasitic aliens in our solar system. I won't argue this too extensively, because it is clear that Bungie has kept extremely accurate to things like this, but never rule out the fact that we do not know the ins and outs of a sci-fi universe until we are given it. It is somewhat of a copout, but that's how fiction is.

It can't be Mars because they didn't get through the portal.They didn't make it through the portal, no, but they think they did. They weren't left on the other side, either. They were transported to a completely different location, as made clear by the mound of evidence I posted above. If it turned out that this was some form of inter-universal travel, then the idea that it isn't Mars because of this, is invalid. Hell, the whole nature of this discussion makes that invalid. It isn't a fact. Maybe, you should re-watch those cutscenes.

Anyway, I think some of your sarcasm and rather egotistical, matter-of-fact statements are pretty unnecessary. Aside from a few comments of my own that I provided to remain level with your own manner of speech, I've been relatively civil with you. Hell, the only reason I bothered responding to your post was because you seemed peeved that no one else did. I thought I'd take the time to have a decent discussion, but it looks like you're pretty set in your ways, and a bit volatile to anyone who disagrees. I hope I'm wrong, because that would be a shame.

[Edited on 08.22.2008 4:17 AM PDT]

  • 08.21.2008 2:44 AM PDT
Subject: Where in the world in Master Chief?. An extensive scientific theory.

Elites For Life

i never saw those things with the communicator box thing in the legendary cut secene but i did notice the entena thing of the body armor

  • 08.21.2008 2:51 AM PDT
Subject: I have 100% Proof of where master chief is. NEW PROOF!!!!!
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It is important, that regardless of what stance you take on the matter, you consider every possible outcome except for those that have been factually proven false.Ok then, the Small Magellanic Cloud is about 60 kilo-parsecs from the Milky Way. Given that it is in the background of the legendary ending, that places them nowhere near Mars. Any argument for the planet being Mars should be over.

They were linked, and that is a fact. I am not purporting anything else… I merely said that the planetoid, and the Mars thermal image are linked. I wonder how many times I'll have to reiterate this before you'll understand that.Given that this is the first time you've said it, and it doesn't make a lick of sense, many more. I don't know how you think the two can be "linked" without asserting that the two might be the same. Certainly, the Mars picture being "linked" to the mystery planet can't mean the planet is Arrakis?

it could fit inside of my bedroom

Ghosts of Onyx, Page 377, 378
I was imposing a maximum limit on the size, not saying it was really planet-size. It doesn't matter.
I reread this chapter before my post on the previous page. The pattern isn't a direct transcription of the Sentinels underneath. Earlier in the book, we see Sentinels combining to produce larger, more destructive beams. In order to give the beam enough strength to break through the crust of the planet, there maybe be dozens or hundreds of Sentinels combining for a tiny piece of the pattern. Therefore, the beam pattern would be a larger version of the Sentinel pattern underneath. Diamonds are crystalline structures too, but the pattern isn't so neatly define from "far away." "Back it off" does not need to be taken as backing all the way back out to 1x zoom. In the scene's context it means, "Back it off until we can get an idea of the whole (but not all the way to 1x)." The pattern may not be visible to the naked eye until the viewer is a few kilometers from the surface or closer.

A blue nebula means they are in the same location?No, it's just means they're not near Mars. Combine that with not going through the portal and where and what the blue cloud is exactly means they didn't move aside from momentum they carried after the closing portal snipped them off from the rest of the ship.

when you wrongfully accuse me of taking my own quote from Cortana out of context, when, ironically, it is you who did so. Oh come on. You cut out the dependent sentence, completely changing the meaning and shaping the evidence for your benefit. You accuse me of taking it out of context? You have got to be kidding.

Let's start with a quick English lessonThis is more common than you realize, and trying to nail the English language down to an exact science is only as valid as my "horizon direction" theory. One of us is hypocritical.

Cortana drops a beacon for the UNSC to find outside of their galaxy?And yet it's feasible that they would take years to find a beacon floating near Mars, or that Cortana would not recognize constellations if they were near Sol? Why drop that beacon in such a helpless situation? It's part of human nature called hope, and the "smart" AI of Halo are built to emulate humans.

How exactly does common sense dictate how the portal works?Common sense leads to the conclusion. Why would the Forerunners leave the portal that was meant to lead the humans to their inheritance in the hands of software? Why would they risk MB coming back and tampered with the portal, making it spit the humans out near a neutron star? It would make more sense to make it hardwired to each end; not able to be tampered with. The Earth portal could track the Ark's relative drift via its gravity signature. I don't care, as long as an AI is not in control of either end. I tacked this on to the MB premise because it would preclude it from sending the MC anywhere via the portal in the first place, but since you've dropped this "container premise," I'll assume we're done with that piece.

so when someone comes here posting a bunch of jumbled speculation in an attempt to discredit a theory, I will, at the very least, clear up misconceptions.
If you want to say something is a jumble of speculation, don't look at me. Look at page one. With the exception of the "There is no 'in-between'…" paragraph, everything in my original counter-argument against the OP is straight from the game. If you want, I can cite the terminals and scan the manual pages.

Skipping the deductions for brevity. They were only attempts to explain the why of things like the ship being cut in half, and it doesn't weaken the facts to lose them. At least they were backed up by evidence, I haven't pulled anything out of my head without finding support for it in the canon first.

There's also no onslaught of religiously radical or parasitic aliens in our solar system.But, no matter what fictional universe you are in, it is pretty hard to cram a dwarf galaxy into 50 AU.

They didn't make it through the portal, no, but think they they did.So Cortana, this advanced, smart AI, managed to miss entering the portal, miss being dropped out of Slipspace, miss the changes in star constellations that would result from a change in position, but somehow record the damage to the Ark from inside a Slipspace tunnel or wherever it dropped them when it collapsed? If you truly find that believable, how am I being discredited?

Anyhow, there has yet to be any actual facts to prove that it isn't Mars (or "a" Mars), but the same can be said for the opposition (and the OP's argument). The connection is there. That is all I was trying to say, because you practically wrote off the connection in your initial response to this thread.Here's a (not the main one, but a more RL-based one) reason I write it off. It could be not meant to represent Mars at all. Bungie said the diorama was created by an outside source, with no regard for canon. IRIS may not be directly created by Bungie, but by the same marketing group. The Mars picture may have been inserted with no regard for canon, not knowing how seriously the community takes these things. No one has taken that still image of the hill and said "Ah-ha! That comes from Comstock Encyclopedia Volume 6, and it was taken in Brazil! This must mean the MC is fighting the Chupacabra in Halo 4!" The group probably assumed the Mars picture was just as obscure. You could say that's the case, but while it could be true, it would be lame.

It's not ruled out that Mars could play a part in a Halo 4 as much as any other planet, but the legendary planet is definitely not Mars, given all the evidence against that. I wrote a counter-argument, only addressing Mars as little as called for by the original theory, because there is so much proof that it can't possibly be Mars right in the cutscene itself, for all to see. I'd rather spend my time crushing the hopes and dreams of those who think Halo 4 = Marathon than reiterate what anyone who'd been paying attention in the first place would say "duh" to. Continue to say "the two are connected" all you want, but now that only seems like a cop-out to fall back on when the argument falls apart.

Anyway, I think some of your sarcasm and rather egotistical, matter-of-fact statements are pretty unnecessary.NO U

  • 08.23.2008 1:37 PM PDT
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Even if the planet in the Legendary ending is Mars(which it is not), why does that mean he is the Marathon Universe? He could be in any universe. He could have been sent into the future. Of course, none of that matters, because the planet is not Mars.

  • 08.23.2008 8:44 PM PDT
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U know why I think this is a valid explanation? Because, after the millionth page is reached... A bungie employee STILL wont post in here.... They never post in threads containing theories that are right... why take the chances? they might give it away and they sure as hell cant deny it.... so why bother even posting?

  • 08.23.2008 10:10 PM PDT
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Posted by: A Nudist Colony
U know why I think this is a valid explanation? Because, after the millionth page is reached... A bungie employee STILL wont post in here.... They never post in threads containing theories that are right... why take the chances? they might give it away and they sure as hell cant deny it.... so why bother even posting?


They almost never post in theories that are wrong, either.

  • 08.23.2008 10:11 PM PDT
Subject: I have 100% Proof of where master chief is.
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I believe all this is not quite right. I don't think that the chief and cortana went to another universe. I think the portal is just a 2 way link between two places in the HALO universe, the location of the ark and the location of earth. When the portal closed on the chief and cortana, they were simply trapped somewhere in the vicinity or the recently destroyed ark

  • 08.23.2008 10:20 PM PDT
Subject: I have 100% Proof of where master chief is. NEW PROOF!!!!!
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I do not appreciate B.Net Group solicitation. If you ignore this and send me an invitation anyway, I will block communications with you.

Posted by: opogjijijp
Even if the planet in the Legendary ending is Mars(which it is not), why does that mean he is the Marathon Universe? He could be in any universe. He could have been sent into the future. Of course, none of that matters, because the planet is not Mars.
He could be anywhere, and it could be Mars if it turned out to be an intra-universal transportation. It is possible, because we have no factual evidence to state otherwise. It is unlikely, yes, because as I said many times throughout this thread, a Forerunner locale is incredibly more likely, but again, ruling out things, especially when Mars was clearly connected to the planetoid, is not a good thing to do.

[Edited on 08.24.2008 3:07 AM PDT]

  • 08.24.2008 12:17 AM PDT
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TOo MucH ReadINg...... FAce mELTinG....................XX Good jod!!!!!!!

[Edited on 08.24.2008 12:50 AM PDT]

  • 08.24.2008 12:49 AM PDT
Subject: I have 100% Proof of where master chief is.

lolz, sweet

  • 08.24.2008 1:01 AM PDT
Subject: Where in the world is Master Chief?. An extensive scientific theory.

ok nice try man but ehhh :/

  • 08.24.2008 1:47 AM PDT
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bravo dude, bravo...

  • 08.24.2008 2:18 AM PDT
Subject: I have 100% Proof of where master chief is.

C'mon, bake me a pie.

Good on you in making this find and stuff, it looks like you have put a lot of time into your thinking. BUT do u think bungie would hide something like this? so only one person can find it and tell the whole universe. sorry but i think your over reacting.

  • 08.24.2008 2:29 AM PDT
Subject: I have 100% Proof of where master chief is. NEW PROOF!!!!!
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I do not appreciate B.Net Group solicitation. If you ignore this and send me an invitation anyway, I will block communications with you.

For the sake of this response, which will be the last I bother writing to you (unless you start providing counter-arguments that actually address my own in their entirety), I'm going to change the order around a little bit, starting with the biggest problem I have with your stance on this matter:

Posted by: Ogier
When you wrongfully accuse me of taking my own quote from Cortana out of context, when, ironically, it is you who did so. Oh come on. You cut out the dependent sentence, completely changing the meaning and shaping the evidence for your benefit. You accuse me of taking it out of context? You have got to be kidding.
Excuse me, which dependent sentence? I haven't cut out anything, I address both sentences of the quote directly. The only thing I did was focus on the meaning of a single word to help you understand grammar usage a little better. United, they still mean the exact same thing, and I find it laughable that you are still defending this.

Let's start with a quick English lessonThis is more common than you realize, and trying to nail the English language down to an exact science is only as valid as my "horizon direction" theory. One of us is hypocritical.Yes, and that hypocrite is you. English is not a science, but it is structured and has its limits. I am treating it as such, as opposed to theoretical/hypothetical, astrophysical cosmology which you, uneducated on the matter, wrongfully skew into a basis for your self-created theories on how a sci-fi FPS game's portal technology works. Irony once more.

I'm not nailing down the English language into a science, Ogier. I am, however, explaining the correct use of a single word to better exemplify the point. Words can be played with in endless ways. However, the definitive meaning of words can never be changed. One will never be two. We will never mean "he". "We" does not encompass an outside subject, plain and simple. There never have been and never will be exceptions to that. Also, how convenient that you falsely condemn me for cutting something out of my own response (since I did not), yet you cut the majority of my explanations out and simply respond to the opening sentence with a passive, and very out-of-context remark. Great work, your counter-argument is so very credible. [/sarcasm]

Cortana drops a beacon for the UNSC to find outside of their galaxy.And yet it's feasible that they would take years to find a beacon floating near Mars, or that Cortana would not recognize constellations if they were near Sol? Why drop that beacon in such a helpless situation? It's part of human nature called hope, and the "smart" AI of Halo are built to emulate humans.For the sake of your apparent Alzheimer's, I'll say once again, I never said it was floating near Mars, I said that it wasn't floating near The Ark/other side of the portal. As for Cortana not recognizing the constellations: The ship was cut in half, Ogier. If you actually paid attention to the ending, from what we can see both of the interior and exterior of the ship, the frigate's systems are almost 100% shut down. There is no power, and the only thing still on is a blinking red light on the hull of the ship. Considering the above, and using militaristic common sense (since you love to use this to assert things), it's safe to assume that a distress beacon would most likely be a fail-safe device... one of the last working pieces of equipment in a catastrophe such as this. That said, there are no viewscreens to see out of. Even if there were, it would also be safe to assume that considering Cortana was a captive of the Flood when she was brought through the portal the first time (and going rampant), that she was not able to take the time to memorize and catalogue all of the constellations in space on her way to the Ark. Also, considering how quick they were to get the hell out of there when Halo was about to fire/detonate, I'm guessing she wasn't very concerned with memorizing it as she was navigating the ship toward the portal, either, so the idea of her even recognizing the constellations at all doesn't even make sense, and so, is moot.

Lastly, while AI have emotions, that doesn't mean they suddenly become stupid. An extragalactic beacon will not reach Sol for thousands of years. Light travels faster than sound/electronic/radio signals, and if they were still at the Ark, they would still be 2^18 lightyears from Sol. That's 262,144 lightyears. Which means it would take longer than that. The Chief isn't that dumb either, and sure as hell doesn't need comforting. Even if they were still on the other side of the portal with The Ark, which they are not, they sure as hell don't believe they are. And, if they did, do you really think that an AI, or even a human for that matter, would cling to a hope that their signal would somehow go hundreds of thousands of times faster than the speed of light? I actually would like a real answer to that question, it's not rhetorical.

Bottom line here, is that on this particular point, you are 100% incorrect, and the sooner you accept that, the better.


It is important, that regardless of what stance you take on the matter, you consider every possible outcome except for those that have been factually proven false.Ok then, the Small Magellanic Cloud is about 60 kilo-parsecs from the Milky Way. Given that it is in the background of the legendary ending, that places them nowhere near Mars. Any argument for the planet being Mars should be over.Read above. I am not arguing that it is Mars, and you are, rather than addressing me, are still addressing the OP. Please correct this in future responses. However, keep in mind that astronomical accuracies are not 100% in Halo, either.

They were linked, and that is a fact. I am not purporting anything else… I merely said that the planetoid, and the Mars thermal image are linked. I wonder how many times I'll have to reiterate this before you'll understand that.Given that this is the first time you've said it, and it doesn't make a lick of sense, many more. I don't know how you think the two can be "linked" without asserting that the two might be the same. Certainly, the Mars picture being "linked" to the mystery planet can't mean the planet is Arrakis?This isn't the first time I said this. I said this in my original quote to you. I'm not surprised that you missed it, however, as you seem very keen on skipping everything after the first few sentences of my paragraphs. They are "linked" because of the emanating light, Ogier. They didn't just throw it in for kicks. Every single piece of content we got from IRIS (which, by the way, was written by Bungie/Microsoft, and only produced by a separate company), had an important meaning. IRIS was canonical. Some of it didn't have much bearing on the storyline, such as the audio transmissions, but they were all canonical, and the thermal image in particular never showed any connection until the game was released and we saw the Legendary Ending. Denying its connection is ridiculous. I never once said it was Mars, however.

it could fit inside of my bedroom

Ghosts of Onyx, Page 377, 378
I was imposing a maximum limit on the size, not saying it was really planet-size.
I know, I was just informing you since you said you weren't sure. It doesn't matter. I reread this chapter before my post on the previous page. The pattern isn't a direct transcription of the Sentinels underneath. Earlier in the book, we see Sentinels combining to produce larger, more destructive beams. In order to give the beam enough strength to break through the crust of the planet, there maybe be dozens or hundreds of Sentinels combining for a tiny piece of the pattern. Therefore, the beam pattern would be a larger version of the Sentinel pattern underneath.What happened earlier in the book does not directly correlate with what happened at the end of the book. Even if it was, it is clearly described that what they were seeing was a new, interlinked pattern, specifically because the sentinels now held the sole duty of protecting the micro-Dyson Sphere in the center. Diamonds are crystalline structures too, but the pattern isn't so neatly define from "far away." "Back it off" does not need to be taken as backing all the way back out to 1x zoom. In the scene's context it means, "Back it off until we can get an idea of the whole (but not all the way to 1x)." The pattern may not be visible to the naked eye until the viewer is a few kilometers from the surface or closer.I never said they backed it out completely. However, you ignored the first part of my quote. They noticed the patterns before they even used magnification, which means that it was visible to the naked eye at a distance safe from the surface's explosion. Even if it wasn't, which it was, the surface of the sentinel lattice does not "transcribe" to the Legendary planetoid at all. We are able to see the patterns on the surface of the Legendary planetoid, and they do not correlate whatsoever.

[Edited on 08.25.2008 4:29 AM PDT]

  • 08.24.2008 3:04 AM PDT
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I do not appreciate B.Net Group solicitation. If you ignore this and send me an invitation anyway, I will block communications with you.

A blue nebula means they are in the same location?No, it's just means they're not near Mars. Combine that with not going through the portal and where and what the blue cloud is exactly means they didn't move aside from momentum they carried after the closing portal snipped them off from the rest of the ship.Once again, you counter-argue something I am not arguing. Mars aside, as well as your ill-advised, against-the-grain assumption that they did not make it into/through the portal, let's say they are still on the other side of the Ark. There is a huge difference between the abundance of the blue magellanic cloud where The Ark was, and where it is in the Legendary Ending. At the Ark, purple cloud is scattered around the Ark's location, quite faint and wispy. In the Legendary Ending, we are much closer to a single blue cloud, which is slightly more abundant and full than what we see with the purple clouds from The Ark. Additionally, there are three, distinct stars within it, which we also do not see any sign of at The Ark. Those are big differences.

How exactly does common sense dictate how the portal works?Common sense leads to the conclusion. Why would the Forerunners leave the portal that was meant to lead the humans to their inheritance in the hands of software? Why would they risk MB coming back and tampered with the portal, making it spit the humans out near a neutron star?I never said they put it in his hands. In fact, that would not make any sense. My point, however, was that Mendicant Bias was a milestone in their construction of AI constructs. Considering he was able to repel 343 Guilty Spark from accessing the Ark (by the way, Guilty Spark made the conscious choice of bypassing Forerunner programming/protocol by not assisting the Reclaimers. If an inferior AI construct can defy programming, one superior to it can do just the same, which is pretty clear by his defection to the Flood and resourcefulness in the war), it would be wise to assume that Mendicant Bias has many more resources at his whim as well. It was cunning and smart, and it is not impossible that Mendicant Bias may have tampered with the Forerunner technology on its own accord. You continue to take my words out of context, despite my warnings not to. It's becoming more of a chore discussing this with you than it is an informative experience. It would make more sense to make it hardwired to each end; not able to be tampered with.Yes, it would. However, you can't ignore the fact that the Librarian initiated the construction of the portal to The Ark at the very last minute before the Halos were activated. They may not have had time to ensure such security measures. Either way, what you consider to make more sense isn't necessarily what is. Please realize that. The Earth portal could track the Ark's relative drift via its gravity signature. I don't care, as long as an AI is not in control of either end. I tacked this on to the MB premise because it would preclude it from sending the MC anywhere via the portal in the first place, but since you've dropped this "container premise," I'll assume we're done with that piece.Once more, speculation. As I've said, twice now, we do not know how the portal works, how it was constructed, or whether or not it was or even can be tampered with. As such, my theories or beliefs on the matter are as mundane as your own. Neither of us can say for sure, and neither of our ideas are more credible than the other. The difference here, however, is that I am considering both sides, as you should. You are not.

So when someone comes here posting a bunch of jumbled speculation in an attempt to discredit a theory, I will clear up misconceptions. If you want to say something is a jumble of speculation, look at page one. With the exception of the "There is no 'in-between'…" paragraph, everything in my original counter-argument against the OP is straight from the game. If you want, I can cite the terminals and scan the manual pages.Some actual evidence and citings would be spectacular, because all I've read is a bunch of misinterpretations as well as theories you've seemed to spawn with no basis from the game at all. So, please, provide some sources just as I have.

Skipping the deductions for brevity. They were only attempts to explain the why of things like the ship being cut in half, and it doesn't weaken the facts to lose them. At least they were backed up by evidence, I haven't pulled anything out of my head without finding support for it in the canon first.Yes you did. Foldspace is a perfect example.

There's also no onslaught of religiously radical or parasitic aliens in our solar system.But, no matter what fictional universe you are in, it is pretty hard to cram a dwarf galaxy into 50 AU.My point was that fiction has no bounds. Luckily for us, Bungie has decided to set some realistic boundaries for themselves, but that hasn't kept them from breaking them now and then.

They didn't make it through the portal, no, but think they they did.So Cortana, this advanced, smart AI, managed to miss entering the portal, miss being dropped out of Slipspace, miss the changes in star constellations that would result from a change in position, but somehow record the damage to the Ark from inside a Slipspace tunnel or wherever it dropped them when it collapsed? If you truly find that believable, how am I being discredited?1. She didn't miss entering the portal, as I said in an above response. She knew they entered it. She thinks they traversed back to Sol, however, which they did not. 2. She didn't miss being dropped out of Slipspace, because a) assuming the portal was an instantaneous transportation (in-between arguments aside), then there would be no length of time for her to measure. It seems like you're contradicting your own points now. 3. I also addressed the fact that Cortana did not have enough time considering her situations spanning from when she came to the Ark to when she left, to catalogue the constellations around them. As for how she knows the Ark was badly damaged, I have no explanation for that.

Anyhow, there has yet to be actual facts to prove that it isn't Mars (or "a" Mars), but the same can be said for the opposition (and the OP's argument). The connection's there. That's all I was trying to say, because you wrote off the connection in your initial response to this thread.Here's a (not the main one, but a more RL-based one) reason I write it off. It could be not meant to represent Mars at all. Bungie said the diorama was created by an outside source, with no regard for canon.Irrelevant. They do not relate. See below. IRIS may not be directly created by Bungie, but by the same marketing group.AKQA created the BELIEVE Ad Campaign on their own, non-canonically. They assisted in IRIS, canonically.The Mars picture may have been inserted with no regard for canon, not knowing how seriously the community takes these things.With how in-depth I Love Bees was (handled entirely by 42 Entertainment), you should rethink that one. Bungie knows how serious Halo fans are. As said by Bungie themselves, "With Bungie, there is no coincidence." No one has taken that still image of the hill and said "Ah-ha! That comes from Comstock Encyclopedia Volume 6, and it was taken in Brazil! This must mean the MC is fighting the Chupacabra in Halo 4!" The group probably assumed the Mars picture was just as obscure. You could say that's the case, but while it could be true, it would be lame.The "Server/Episode" videos, aside from their dialogue and direct relations to the discoveries being made, weren't juxtaposed to the game. However, this was the tale of Mendicant Bias and Didact, which was canon. Comparing split-second frames to solid content that was supposed to be found and dissected is not a fair comparison to make.

It's not ruled out that Mars could play a part in a Halo 4 as much as any other planet, but the legendary planet is definitely not Mars, given all the evidence against that. I wrote a counter-argument, only addressing Mars as little as called for by the original theory, because there is so much proof that it can't possibly be Mars right in the cutscene itself, for all to see.In a separate universe, all of these pieces of "evidence" (which, so far, have only been assertions on your part) would not matter. Before you jump on that again, though, let me one last time make it clear to you that I do not believe in nor am I defending the OP's theory.
I'd rather spend my time crushing the hopes and dreams of those who think Halo 4 = Marathon than reiterate what anyone who'd been paying attention in the first place would say "duh" to. Continue to say "the two are connected" all you want, but now that only seems like a cop-out to fall back on when the argument falls apart.It's not a copout to say that the image and the Legendary Ending are connected. It is a plot point. Whether or not the image itself has meaning behind it aside from corresponding to where the light emanates from, they are connected nonetheless.

Overall, you're presenting yourself in this debate very poorly. If you don't start addressing my points in their entirety, rather than leaving huge portions of them out, I'm not going to bother responding to you anymore. You want to rely on real-world hypotheticals and common sense to come up with a non-factual assertion, that's fine. The least you could do is stay consistent, however.

I'll happily continue this discussion with anyone who is able to do so mutually and respectably.

[Edited on 08.25.2008 4:48 AM PDT]

  • 08.24.2008 3:05 AM PDT
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He could be anywhere, and it could be Mars if it turned out to be an intra-universal transportation.


There is no large blue nebula near mars.

It is possible, because we have no factual evidence to state otherwise.

The presence of a large blue nebula near the planet is evidence that it is not Mars.

especially when Mars was clearly connected to the planetoid, is not a good thing to do.

There is no evidence that Mars is connected to the planetoid.

[Edited on 08.24.2008 10:24 AM PDT]

  • 08.24.2008 9:37 AM PDT
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I do not appreciate B.Net Group solicitation. If you ignore this and send me an invitation anyway, I will block communications with you.

Posted by: opogjijijp

He could be anywhere, and it could be Mars if it turned out to be an intra-universal transportation.

There is no large blue nebula near mars.
You completely missed the point I was making, opog. If it is an intra-universal transportation, then the blue nebula could most certainly be near Mars in another universe. That was my point.

It is possible, because we have no factual evidence to state otherwise.
The presence of a large blue nebula near the planet is evidence that it is not Mars.
See above.

especially when Mars was clearly connected to the planetoid, is not a good thing to do.
There is no evidence that Mars is connected to the planetoid.
Yes, there is. This is stated on the very first page of this thread.

Look at top right of this picture. That heat signature is a thermal image of Mars, taken from an observatory webpage. Additionally, it just so happens that the image depicted beneath the thermal image, as well as the other two, is identical to the location and proportion of the Legendary Ending planetoid and its anomaly.

That is hard, solid (and yet-to-be fully researched) evidence (note, I'm not saying proof), that the two are connected.

[Edited on 08.25.2008 8:05 AM PDT]

  • 08.24.2008 10:55 PM PDT

OMG THERE IS SO, SO,SO, SO,SO, SO,SO, SO,SO, SO,SO, SO,SO, SO,SO, SO,SO, SO,SO, SO,SO, SO,SO, SO,SO, SO,SO, SO,SO, SO,SO, SO,SO, SO,SO, SO,SO, SO,SO, SO,SO, SO,SO, SO,SO, SO,SO, SO,SO, SO,SO, SO,SO, SO,SO, SO,SO, SO,SO, SO,SO, SO,SO, SO,SO, SO,SO, SO, READING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.......OMG

..HERES MORE,

BTW, my head has exploded, so has my face.

Oh and your forgeting somthing..... Bungi could of put all these conection that cancel each others theories out, just to confuse people!, just to put them of the topic!
and a completely other story could be created. Btw i only read upto pg 7, then skipped to page 115........lol

  • 08.25.2008 12:18 AM PDT

You know I hate other countries calling us Americans retars but after seeing so many posts about how much reading it takes I kind of understand why the hell we're being hated on. Seriously is the majority of people here dumb or what?

  • 08.25.2008 12:41 AM PDT
Subject: I have 100% Proof of where master chief is.
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Maybe doesnt sound right though.

  • 08.25.2008 12:57 AM PDT
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If you have a complaint about the game, just take a step back and remeber how lucky you really are to even be in possesion of it when compared to the millions of people suffering around the world with not even a roof over their heads.

Okay i haveent got time to read all those posts by Dream and ogier cos im in school, but i cant wait, cos they look well thot out.

  • 08.25.2008 2:30 AM PDT

what the hell is Mendicant Bias???

  • 08.25.2008 4:55 AM PDT