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This topic has moved here: Subject: Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.
  • Subject: Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Subject: Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Posted by: WolfmanMaverick
You people have just sent my sides into orbit. A bunch of MLG try hards sucking the dick of some supposed pro half the thread hasn't even heard of. Classic.

That is what kept running through my head tonight as an idea formed in my head at work. I got an idea to make accounts here have some weight to them.

As of now when a member is blacklisted they are not permitted to post to the forums. This includes posting things to the Files Forums. Now this can straighten some members out and they will go onto be productive members of the community. Others though will just see it as an annoyance and continue until they are permanently blacklisted. My proposal is a very drastic one and I have considered some of the pitfalls, which I will get to in a minute.

My proposal would be to make the Halo 3, Halo 2, Optimatch, and Files Forums be only accessible to people with linked GT’s (possibly just Gold). I chose those forums because of their connection to the online play aspect. Now this will help with the controversial part of my idea. Make it to where when a member with a GT linked gets blacklisted they not only lose the privies to the forums, but also to MM itself.

Now I can probably tell that quite a few of you are saying that I have flipped my lid. Well maybe I have. I feel that this would add weight to the accounts and make quite a few people realize that being anonymous on the internet still can have consequences. A three day ban would go a long way.

The biggest drawbacks I have come across so far is that it would make the Mods seem like Gods. This would make us have a level of responsibility that even makes me uncomfortable. This coming from a guy that has dealt with explosives, and live fire over peoples heads. The end result is who would police the police? Achronos of course, but I am sure he has other things to do. Also it would possibly make people scared to post anything for fear of being blacklisted. That in turn could stifle the creative side of the community by making possible good members shy away.

More than likely there will also be some type of legal issue with my suggestion. It would not surprise me one bit. Something tells me that disclaimers would not quite cut it. If Foman reads this I am sure he could clarify anything on that end.

I would really like to hear what any of you guys and gals have to say about this wacked out idea. I know I have not put it all out the way I wanted to. I am kinda tired, but I will answer any questions that you might have for me.

  • 10.23.2007 8:07 PM PDT
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Posted by: evilcam
Gz, I'd kill the whole world for you




3-19-07

I wholeheartedly agree with you, Achilles, maybe then some people would straiten out.


Although, it would give the mods great amounts of power and make it barely possible to find new mods that are trustworthy, if the need arises.

[Edited on 10.23.2007 8:13 PM PDT]

  • 10.23.2007 8:12 PM PDT

Posted by: X Rampancy X
JESUS CHRIST I'M COVERED IN BEES
Theme song tiem.
Pezz = win.
Lazer kitty says: PEW PEW PEW!

It would certainly help crack down on the stupidity on these forums, I'll give you that. As for the legality of this proposal, I'm not sure. However, since this is the official website of said game, it might be feasible. Just as one can be banned for tampering with the game over XBL, one can be banned for spamming and generally vandalizing this website.

[Edited on 10.23.2007 8:18 PM PDT]

  • 10.23.2007 8:18 PM PDT
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The only Twitter I follow. Except yours ;)
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Oh sweet merciful Shishka, let it happen!

I absolutely support this idea (especially since Ghandi is now no longer a threat to accidently blacklisting us).

  • 10.23.2007 8:23 PM PDT
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Posted by: evilcam
Gz, I'd kill the whole world for you




3-19-07

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: Achilles1108
The biggest drawbacks I have come across so far is that it would make the Mods seem like Gods.

"Seem like"? What are you trying to say?

But you are Gods. ;)

I don't know if I would be in favor of such a cross-service power.
Personally, I like the idea, although, not being a mod, I can't say how I might handle it. That is, if it is even possible to pull something like that off without officially becoming a Microsoft Employee.

But I do like the idea that posting privileges in some forums (at least Optimatch) should be restricted to members with linked and non-banned (XBL or the forums) Gold accounts. IMO, discussing playlists should be limited to people who are willing to show that they are "walking the walk" when they say "I play a lot of _______" or "I think that this map/playlist is lacking, and I speak from experience". Non-linked accounts can spam, flame, and disrupt the discussions in Optimatch and they really have no "stake" in the matter.


Also, by having linked tags, the participants of those forums would be far less likely to result in rule breaking behavior such as insulting, or flaming.


I don't really go to the Optimatch Forum myself, but I can see how having this would vastly reduce the flaming and spamming I have seen when I do go there. I'm in favor. Keeping them read-only for all others.


As to the other forums (Halo 3, Halo 2) I am not so certain. People with accounts and no XBL should be able to interact on those topics, IMO.
I agree, while it may be filled it idiots, spamers, and idiot-spamers (Heh) the Halo: CE, PC, Two, and Three forums really should be kept public.

The file forums? If it were possible to have the forum sorted not by thread replies, but by recent downloads to a unique Xbox 360? In other words, replies don't bump, fresh downloads do. I would like that a lot.

So much Bumping there....It's insane....Agree.

So in all, I like that you are thinking globally. I like that you are seeing the potential ups and downs of a proposed system, and I really like that you are asking for and encouraging discussion. I too am eager to hear what other members think.

Posted by: Pezz
I absolutely support this idea (especially since Ghandi is now no longer a threat to accidently blacklisting us).


Am I the only one that sees the irony in that?

[Edited on 10.23.2007 8:28 PM PDT]

  • 10.23.2007 8:27 PM PDT
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I was with you until i read that a ban here would mean a ban from MM, not that it isnt right but there are too many obstacles and legal issues for it to ever become a reality. The idea about only GT-linked accounts being able to post in the game related forums is great. Theres really not any point of having non-gamers post there anyway. Heres what i would do instead of banning people, who has violated the sites rules, from MM:

*Prevent them from signing in while being blacklisted/banned, that way they cant reach their screenshots or communicate with other members through the sites PM.
*GT-linked accounts only has access to profiles and service records on the site, this will prevent them from creating alt. accounts and look at them while being banned.
*Cut the cord between GT´s and their linked b.net accounts when the b.net account is banned. Result, all the stats from the banned time are gone.

..and most importantly , move the halo 3 forum to www.halo3.com instead.


[Edited on 10.23.2007 8:43 PM PDT]

  • 10.23.2007 8:30 PM PDT

I like this idea a lot. I really don't think that it'd stifle the community's creativeness too much because those who are the "productive and good" members know not to fear the ninjas too much and will continue. The newer members will be hesitant to post because they'll be shaking in their little space-boots, but I think in a way that's good because it'll give them time to get accustomed to how things work and what ever else falls into that category.

I like the idea of being banned having consequences in Halo 3 or Halo 2. But what about those without linked gamertags? What would make their ban have more weight? With the consequence of being banned from MM, I think that a lot more people would create alternate accounts in fear of getting their GT banned from MM. And where does that leave us? Pretty much exactly where we started off. But, having linked GTs "unlocks" the abilityto participate in certain forums to counteract the creation of alternate accounts to bypass being banned from MM. I like the way you think.

I really don't see a major flaw in this plan. Anyway, I agree entirely.

  • 10.23.2007 8:31 PM PDT

Posted by: X Rampancy X
JESUS CHRIST I'M COVERED IN BEES
Theme song tiem.
Pezz = win.
Lazer kitty says: PEW PEW PEW!

Posted by: Gzalzi
Posted by: Recon Number 54
Also, by having linked tags, the participants of those forums would be far less likely to result in rule breaking behavior such as insulting, or flaming.
I don't really go to the Optimatch Forum myself, but I can see how having this would vastly reduce the flaming and spamming I have seen when I do go there. I'm in favor. Keeping them read-only for all others.


Now that makes sense.

[Edited on 10.23.2007 8:31 PM PDT]

  • 10.23.2007 8:31 PM PDT

Posted by: WolfmanMaverick
You people have just sent my sides into orbit. A bunch of MLG try hards sucking the dick of some supposed pro half the thread hasn't even heard of. Classic.

Posted by: Recon Number 54
I don't know if I would be in favor of such a cross-service power.

I am not too sure about that myself. I knew that this would be one of the main problems with the idea. That is a huge amount of power. Especially in the hands of volunteer mods. I could see it being abused very easily. Maybe a service we could use to recommend a person be temp banned from MM due to misconduct on the site? I feel a little more than being removed from here will hit the point home that you cannot act like that and not pay for it. You act like a jerk to people and you get put in the corner while all the good little boys and girls get to go play.


As to the other forums (Halo 3, Halo 2) I am not so certain. People with accounts and no XBL should be able to interact on those topics, IMO.
I guess the Halo 2 forum is dead enough now so it would not be needed. The Halo 3 forum could be converted into seperate Campaign and Multplayer forums and have access restricted in the Multiplayer one.

The file forums? If it were possible to have the forum sorted not by thread replies, but by recent downloads to a unique Xbox 360? In other words, replies don't bump, fresh downloads do. I would like that a lot.
Do not forget what we talked about in that regard. Limited amounts of downloads per member per week or day or what ever the case may be. That would limit people downloading their vids and deleting them and redownloading to bump.

  • 10.23.2007 8:33 PM PDT

Posted by: X Rampancy X
JESUS CHRIST I'M COVERED IN BEES
Theme song tiem.
Pezz = win.
Lazer kitty says: PEW PEW PEW!

The only flaw I can see in this is having a few good, trustworthy moderators. Though some might see this action as b.net turning into a dictatorship. Perhaps the whole b.net ban = matchmaking ban should depend on the severity of the offense. And the ban process would take a while longer, maybe make it so that in order to ban someone, several moderators must agree.

  • 10.23.2007 8:39 PM PDT
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Yes to limiting forum access, yes to 'A ban on XBL = ban on B.net', no to 'A ban on B.net = ban on XBL'.

A permanent ban from B.net should cause a big, red, [BANNED FROM BUNGIE FOR LIFE] tag on your XBL profile.

  • 10.23.2007 8:40 PM PDT

Posted by: WolfmanMaverick
You people have just sent my sides into orbit. A bunch of MLG try hards sucking the dick of some supposed pro half the thread hasn't even heard of. Classic.

Posted by: Batzter
*Prevent them from signing in while being blacklisted/banned, that way they cant reach their screenshots or communicate with other members through the sites PM.
*GT-linked accounts only has access to profiles and service records on the site, this will prevent them from creating alt. accounts and look at them while being banned.
*Cut the cord between GT´s and their linked b.net accounts when the b.net account is banned. Result, all the stats from the banned time are gone.


I like your ideas. Especially the second one. That sounds like it could work out well. Basically it would make them have to get another GT, account and link it just to see the account that got blacklisted. That would make quite a few people take notice.

  • 10.23.2007 8:41 PM PDT
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Posted by: evilcam
Gz, I'd kill the whole world for you




3-19-07

Posted by: th3m4dblimp3r
The only flaw I can see in this is having a few good, trustworthy moderators.

Yes, as I said, it would be very hard to find new ones if need be.

Though some might see this action as b.net turning into a dictatorship.
The problem there being?

This is Bungie, you have no rights.

Bungie is already a dictatorship anyway. (Don't take that badly.)

[Edited on 10.23.2007 8:43 PM PDT]

  • 10.23.2007 8:41 PM PDT

Posted by: X Rampancy X
JESUS CHRIST I'M COVERED IN BEES
Theme song tiem.
Pezz = win.
Lazer kitty says: PEW PEW PEW!

Posted by: Gzalzi
Though some might see this action as b.net turning into a dictatorship.
The problem there being?

This is Bungie, you have no rights.


There is a fine line between making it so that people can't post whatever they want, and banning them from a service that they're paying for. This isn't something to be taken lightly.

  • 10.23.2007 8:44 PM PDT

Posted by: WolfmanMaverick
You people have just sent my sides into orbit. A bunch of MLG try hards sucking the dick of some supposed pro half the thread hasn't even heard of. Classic.

Posted by: dalmedya
Yes to limiting forum access, yes to 'A ban on XBL = ban on B.net', no to 'A ban on B.net = ban on XBL'.

A permanent ban from B.net should cause a big, red, [BANNED FROM BUNGIE FOR LIFE] tag on your XBL profile.

Ahh. Another great idea. You get banned from XBL you get auto banned here. I also never thought of the Scarlet Letter idea. It lets other people know that you have been naughty.

  • 10.23.2007 8:44 PM PDT
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Posted by: evilcam
Gz, I'd kill the whole world for you




3-19-07

Posted by: th3m4dblimp3r
Posted by: Gzalzi
Though some might see this action as b.net turning into a dictatorship.
The problem there being?

This is Bungie, you have no rights.


There is a fine line between making it so that people can't post whatever they want, and banning them from a service that they're paying for. This isn't something to be taken lightly.


Honestly, Bungie can shut down Halo 3's online any time they want without warning. They have the right to keep people from playing in it.(Unless it's in some contract with Microsoft or something.)

They are playing for XBox Live, not Halo 3 Matchmaking.

This is me assuming that the ban that Achillies is speaking of is a Halo 3/Halo 2 ban, not a Full XBox Live ban.

[Edited on 10.23.2007 8:47 PM PDT]

  • 10.23.2007 8:47 PM PDT

Posted by: X Rampancy X
JESUS CHRIST I'M COVERED IN BEES
Theme song tiem.
Pezz = win.
Lazer kitty says: PEW PEW PEW!

Posted by: Gzalzi
Honestly, Bungie can shut down Halo 3's online any time they want without warning. They have the right to keep people from playing in it.(Unless it's in some contract with Microsoft or something.)


I already expressed this in my first post. Yes, bungie does have the right to refuse its customers service. So long as this is a matchmaking only ban, (meaning that private custom games can still be played over XBL) then I don't see a problem with it. But, I can almost guarantee you that this will cause unrest amongst the b.net population.

To be fair, good members of our community would remain unaffected.

  • 10.23.2007 8:52 PM PDT

Posted by: WolfmanMaverick
You people have just sent my sides into orbit. A bunch of MLG try hards sucking the dick of some supposed pro half the thread hasn't even heard of. Classic.

Posted by: th3m4dblimp3r
There is a fine line between making it so that people can't post whatever they want, and banning them from a service that they're paying for. This isn't something to be taken lightly.

This should definitely not be taken lightly.

As for MM it is my understanding that we are not paying for it. We pay for XBL. That is how Bungie can ban people from it without XBL's permission. Now if Achronos wishes to state otherwise I welcome him to do so.

Oh and I am only talking about a MM ban. Not a XBL ban.

[Edited on 10.23.2007 8:53 PM PDT]

  • 10.23.2007 8:52 PM PDT
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Posted by: Achilles1108
I like your ideas. Especially the second one. That sounds like it could work out well. Basically it would make them have to get another GT, account and link it just to see the account that got blacklisted. That would make quite a few people take notice.

Well theres always the option of having someone els looking at them for you but its not really the same thing as checking your medals etc on your own. Then theres the "print screens" that one user could take of another users stats and send to him/her but overall it just makes it complaicated for them and noticable. Without writing a tutorial on how its done we can all agree on that its way too simply for blacklisted members to come back with full priviliges within a very short amount of time nowdays. Whatever makes it a little more complicated is a step in the right direction.

  • 10.23.2007 8:52 PM PDT
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Posted by: Gzalzi
Honestly, Bungie can shut down Halo 3's online any time they want without warning. They have the right to keep people from playing in it.(Unless it's in some contract with Microsoft or something.)
Actually, I don't think they can do that...

They are playing for XBox Live, not Halo 3 Matchmaking.

This is me assuming that the ban that Achillies is speaking of is a Halo 3/Halo 2 ban, not a Full XBox Live ban.
... Can that be done?
Yes to 'ban on B.net = ban on Halo 3'! VERY VERY YES!

  • 10.23.2007 8:54 PM PDT
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Posted by: Recon Number 54
I don't know if I would be in favor of such a cross-service power. But I do like the idea that posting privileges in some forums (at least Optimatch) should be restricted to members with linked and non-banned (XBL or the forums) Gold accounts. IMO, discussing playlists should be limited to people who are willing to show that they are "walking the walk" when they say "I play a lot of _______" or "I think that this map/playlist is lacking, and I speak from experience". Non-linked accounts can spam, flame, and disrupt the discussions in Optimatch and they really have no "stake" in the matter.


Well what if those members without linked GT's still want to be involved with the threads? Just because a member doesn't have a linked GT doesn't mean they don't play live.

As for the other forums discussed, it seems like by only allowing certain members the "right" to post in a forum it shows alot of segregation between members. I thought we didn't have rights? Now the Mods/Online Team are only giving them to specific members? Every member should be able to post a thread regardless of wether or not they have linked GT's. The whole idea seems a little ridiculous to me.

  • 10.23.2007 8:54 PM PDT

Posted by: X Rampancy X
JESUS CHRIST I'M COVERED IN BEES
Theme song tiem.
Pezz = win.
Lazer kitty says: PEW PEW PEW!

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: Achilles1108
Posted by: dalmedya
Yes to limiting forum access, yes to 'A ban on XBL = ban on B.net', no to 'A ban on B.net = ban on XBL'.

A permanent ban from B.net should cause a big, red, [BANNED FROM BUNGIE FOR LIFE] tag on your XBL profile.

Ahh. Another great idea. You get banned from XBL you get auto banned here. I also never thought of the Scarlet Letter idea. It lets other people know that you have been naughty.

and prevent the legitimate "I have been mistakenly banned" and the whaaaaambulance posts completely?


Also, some tend to forget that certain people like to leave false negative feedback on people who beat them in games, effectively abusing the report system. For instance, I had a friend who was banned for modding back in Halo 2, when he clearly wasn't doing so. It was all because he beat some kid in a game, and the kid decided to throw a hissy fit.

  • 10.23.2007 8:56 PM PDT
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Talk to the Soul | ~B.B. | Know Your Duardo |  | Hero | ISFJ | 77135 | 94371

"It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me."

I dunno. Can every moderator be trusted with this kind of 'power?' It remains to be seen. I do like the idea of separated forums though, especially if you have your GT linked or not. But is another forum really necessary? I don't really think so. Sure, you have very good points as to why there could be more forums, but sometimes things on paper look good, but in reality, are terrible. I can see many people becoming angry not being able to get into certain forums, and posting countless amounts of spam. I can see people posting multiplayer things in the 'Capaign Forum' because they couldn't get into the 'Multiplayer Forum.' I can see it becoming the current Halo 3 Forum, just with a multiplayer side to it (like the Optimatch Forum).

I have many concerns over this. If I somehow discredited you Achilles, I apologize. My intention was just to post my own thoughts.

  • 10.23.2007 8:57 PM PDT