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This topic has moved here: Subject: Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.
  • Subject: Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Subject: Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Posted by: Duardo
I'd love to be a 10 year old and tell my mom I'm going on an adventure out into the world catching Pokemon, with her full support. Never mind the fact that there are rapists, criminals, and murders out there, or the fact that I may get killed by a Pokemon.

Luckily I have Pikachu.

Ban someone from MM because of bad forum behaviour?

In theory it would work, but it would cause a huge freaking backlash against Bungie because Matchmaking is a whole diffirent entity.

  • 10.26.2007 12:37 AM PDT

With that already possibly in the works, what about a "report" thread button? I haven't seen any mention of it in this thread, and I think it could be an efficient tool to help the mods keep up.


Posted by: evilcam
What a spectacular topic all in all. This really helped re-invigorate my fervor for this community. Nicely done.

On topic, I think that limiting the posting privileges in the Optimatch to only Gold-linked accounts is a step in the right direction. I honestly thought that was going to happen in the last major update to be honest. Temper that position though. The Optimatch means something different to me than it does to most of you. I don't really have much interest in suggesting changes to the playlists, so I only really moderate in that forum. I rarely ever contribute anything. Being that I only view it through a moderator's eyes, I think its a mess, in dire need of fixing. But as I said, that's just my selfish reasoning.

The "ban on b.net=ban on xbox-live" issue seems moot, since Achronos already told us that Bungie themselves will never let it happen. That's a good thing in my opinion, because I honestly don't want to be responsible for xbox live issues on top of bungie.net issues. The very idea made me cringe a little bit. I think it would be effective if done correctly, but I don't think the rewards outweigh the risks in the long run. However, perhaps users who are known spammers/trolls who's GTs we know about could be banned.

In addendum to that, perhaps banning users who constantly play with known spammers could be looked at too. Say, you play more than 10 games a week regularly with a known spammer, and you're banned from the forums and from live for 48 hours or something. It may take away some of the reason as to why spammers spam, in that they won't have friends who the can brag about their exploits to. Although, doing that may just make more spammers, who are angry about their arguably unjustified bans. Banning someone when they did not do anything wrong themselves is probably not the best method. I think that the risks outweigh the rewards there too. Though I'm just throwing it out there.

As for everything else; I don't think the Halo 3 forum nor the Halo 2 forum should be restricted to Gold or Silver accounts. I think that those forums should be open to all who are willing to make an account here. The only problem is the gigantic mess that the Halo 3 forum is right now. I can't put into words the frustration that the Halo 3 forum insists I experience and pass on to some of you from time to time. I don't know what can be done to fix it though. Its frequently too busy to even keep up with, much less moderate. Trying to put the fear of being banned into them isn't working that well, because they see so many other misbehaving users get away with murder. I guess that's a different topic though.

To surmise, Optimatch & Gold accounts = win! Halo 3 & Halo 2 Forums, I don't know; and banning spammers GTs = win!!!!

  • 10.26.2007 1:15 AM PDT
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And the Shadow fell upon the Land, and the World was riven stone from stone. The oceans fled, and the mountains were swallowed up, and the nations were scattered to the eight corners of the World. The moon was blood, and the sun was as ashes. The seas boiled, and the living envied the dead. All was shattered, and all but memory lost, and one memory above all others, of him who brought the Shadow and the Breaking of the World. And him they named Dragon.

Posted by: icefirei
With that already possibly in the works, what about a "report" thread button? I haven't seen any mention of it in this thread, and I think it could be an efficient tool to help the mods keep up.


A "report spam" button is, IMO, the dumbest idea ever. That would just mean a hell lot more work for the moderators.
But, if just a few selected members had the ability to directly mark a thread by pushing such a button, then it would maybe help. But then again, why not just give them the ability to lock threads instead of just putting a big "spam sign" next to them?

EDIT: Lazy typo.

[Edited on 10.26.2007 1:22 AM PDT]

  • 10.26.2007 1:21 AM PDT

The "report spam" button wouldn't have that problem if only thread could be reported a maximum of once. (As in, no matter how many people report it, it only gets added to the "reported threads" queue once). And as for threads that don't deserve being locked, if a user has a history of reporting threads that don't deserve it, they would be banned for misuse.

The spam sign could work if it was only visible to moderators. No need to attract more "unwanted" attention to those threads...

[Edited on 10.26.2007 1:44 AM PDT]

  • 10.26.2007 1:33 AM PDT
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And the Shadow fell upon the Land, and the World was riven stone from stone. The oceans fled, and the mountains were swallowed up, and the nations were scattered to the eight corners of the World. The moon was blood, and the sun was as ashes. The seas boiled, and the living envied the dead. All was shattered, and all but memory lost, and one memory above all others, of him who brought the Shadow and the Breaking of the World. And him they named Dragon.

Posted by: icefirei
The "report spam" button wouldn't have that problem if only thread could be reported a maximum of once. And as for threads that don't deserve being locked, if a user has a history of reporting threads that don't deserve it, they would be banned for misuse.

The spam sign could work if it was only visible to moderators. No need to attract more "unwanted" attention to those threads...


This still wouldn't work, because people would report threads just for the hell of it. This idea don't even work in theory.

  • 10.26.2007 1:37 AM PDT

Seriously... Reread the third sentence of my post. Here, I'll even bold it for you. With a notice of the consequence of reporting a thread that doesn't violate the Code of Conduct, that would not only help discourage bad reports, but it would give the mods adequate reason for disciplining abusers. It might or might not be a good thing for the long run, but it would definitely help the mods get things back under control.

What do you guys think? Recon? Evilcam? Achilles?

[Edited on 10.26.2007 1:45 AM PDT]

  • 10.26.2007 1:44 AM PDT
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And the Shadow fell upon the Land, and the World was riven stone from stone. The oceans fled, and the mountains were swallowed up, and the nations were scattered to the eight corners of the World. The moon was blood, and the sun was as ashes. The seas boiled, and the living envied the dead. All was shattered, and all but memory lost, and one memory above all others, of him who brought the Shadow and the Breaking of the World. And him they named Dragon.

Posted by: icefirei
Seriously... Reread the third sentence of my post. Here, I'll even bold it for you. With a notice of the consequence of reporting a thread that doesn't violate the Code of Conduct, that would not only help discourage bad reports, but it would give the mods adequate reason for disciplining abusers. It might or might not be a good thing for the long run, but it would definitely help the mods get things back under control.

What do you guys think? Recon? Evilcam? Achilles?


Most people don't read the rules, code of conduct, or anything. These forums mostly consist of kids/teenagers, so you've got to make things as easy as possible to make it work. I still don't think this is a good solution, unless you only allow several "semi-moderators" to mark specific threads. But as I said before, why give them the ability to mark threads when you can give them then ability to lock threads?

  • 10.26.2007 1:50 AM PDT

Right... So letting people that aren't full mods (and, according to you, don't know the Code of Conduct) lock threads would be better than giving the mods another tool to identify problematic threads and users? I understand mods already do a lot of work, but could it honestly hurt to have a way to glance at threads the community doesn't think fit the Code of Conduct?

And the bans would force new members to learn the rules (or quit the forums). Everybody should know what is and isn't accepted; we shouldn't accommodate users (new or old) who don't abide by the rules.

Instead of having each report add an additional thread to the list, each report could keep track of how many users have reported it. Just another idea.

[Edited on 10.26.2007 2:12 AM PDT]

  • 10.26.2007 2:08 AM PDT
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And the Shadow fell upon the Land, and the World was riven stone from stone. The oceans fled, and the mountains were swallowed up, and the nations were scattered to the eight corners of the World. The moon was blood, and the sun was as ashes. The seas boiled, and the living envied the dead. All was shattered, and all but memory lost, and one memory above all others, of him who brought the Shadow and the Breaking of the World. And him they named Dragon.

Posted by: icefirei
Right... So letting people that aren't full mods (and, according to you, don't know the Code of Conduct) lock threads would be better than giving the mods another tool to identify problematic threads and users? I understand mods already do a lot of work, but could it honestly hurt to have a way to glance at threads the community doesn't think fit the Code of Conduct?


You got me wrong there. I meant making trusted members "semi-mods". You know, people that dig through the -blam!- for more -blam!-, or whatever. Anyways, what I meant what that I don't see no reason to only give them the ability to mark threads when you can give them the ability to lock threads. As for giving everyone the ability to mark threads would cause a lot of spam.

And the bans would force new members to learn the rules (or quit the forums). Everybody should know what is and isn't accepted; we shouldn't accommodate users (new or old) who don't abide by the rules.

Instead of having each report add an additional thread to the list, each report could keep track of how many users have reported it. Just another idea.


I like the last idea. Say it is only marked as spam when it has gotten more than five complaints, or maybe ten. This would be a good idea if everyone were allowed to mark threads as spam.

  • 10.26.2007 2:26 AM PDT
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Posted by: Qbix89
As for the Halo 3 forum: Make both a Multiplayer and a Singelplayer Halo 3 forum. Only people with linked GT could post in the MP forum, and everyone could post in the SP forum. This would probably bring down the spam and make the job easier for you guys.


I mentioned this suggestion some pages back and Recon mentioned that the line between single player and multiplayer is blurred. Multiplayer Co-Op is still multiplayer and people without Xbox live can still play LANs.

Qbix89, if I'm not mistaken, some sort of report feature has already been mentioned by the big man. He's also vaguely hinted at ways of punishing those who abuse it. However, it may very well be a "flag" or "mark as spam" feature instead in which only the moderators can see what's been flagged.

Also, I've seen some mention of the ToU. If I'm not mistaken on both Bungie.net's ToU Agreement and XBL's ToU agreement, it says that both of these agreements are subject to change at any time. Again, it's been noted many a time in this thread that forum punishment won't carry over to XBL. I'm just throwing that little tidbit out there.

Edit: Here it is.

MODIFICATION OF THESE TERMS OF USE

Microsoft reserves the right to change the terms, conditions, and notices under which the Bungie Web Sites are offered, including but not limited to the charges, if any, associated with the use of the Bungie Web Sites. You are responsible for regularly reviewing these terms and conditions and your continued use of the website acknowledges your agreement.


Xbox Live will let you know in advance if the contract changes.

15. HOW WE MAY CHANGE THIS CONTRACT
If we change this contract, then we will tell you at least 30 days before the change is in force. We will tell you of the change by e-mail or online posting. We may also use other ways that we believe will reach you. If you do not agree to such changes, then you must cancel and stop using the Service before the changes are in force. If you do not stop using the Service, then your use of the Service will continue under the changed contract.


Just because they're boring reads that only the legal types (you know who you are) would enjoy reading doesn't mean ignorance is an excuse.

[Edited on 10.26.2007 3:06 AM PDT]

  • 10.26.2007 3:00 AM PDT

"But you were dead a thousand times. Hopeless encounters successfully won. A man long dead, grafted to machines your builders did not understand. You follow the path, fitting into an infinite pattern. Your to manipulate, destroy and rebuild. Now, in the quantum moment before closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time. I know who you are. You are destiny."

So we are agreed then? A tactical pulse ...

Wait.
Oops. <__<

No optimatch for ...


-Banned XBL accs.

-XBL Silver accs.

w00t.

~`Cortana

  • 10.26.2007 5:04 AM PDT
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Posted by: NinjAg
Just because they're boring reads that only the legal types (you know who you are) would enjoy reading doesn't mean ignorance is an excuse.

Hey man, screw you for judging me!

:)

  • 10.26.2007 5:35 AM PDT
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And the Shadow fell upon the Land, and the World was riven stone from stone. The oceans fled, and the mountains were swallowed up, and the nations were scattered to the eight corners of the World. The moon was blood, and the sun was as ashes. The seas boiled, and the living envied the dead. All was shattered, and all but memory lost, and one memory above all others, of him who brought the Shadow and the Breaking of the World. And him they named Dragon.

I mentioned this suggestion some pages back and Recon mentioned that the line between single player and multiplayer is blurred. Multiplayer Co-Op is still multiplayer and people without Xbox live can still play LANs.

Qbix89, if I'm not mistaken, some sort of report feature has already been mentioned by the big man. He's also vaguely hinted at ways of punishing those who abuse it. However, it may very well be a "flag" or "mark as spam" feature instead in which only the moderators can see what's been flagged.



Yeah, I saw that too. But, even though Achronos said it I still feel it sounds like a bad idea. I just see a scenario where everyone marks off a thread as spam, so when a ninja gets online every thread is flashing with a big "SPAM" sign next to it.
Maybe I'm just being dumb now, but I don't see how this can be a good solution.

Sorry for the short reply, I'm at a friends house right now.

[Edited on 10.26.2007 8:35 AM PDT]

  • 10.26.2007 8:33 AM PDT

Meh, initially, a mod would see that. But, with a combination of proper notice of the consequences of abuse and a little time to show that the mods really mean business when it comes to abuse, the "mark post" button would become a very useful (and potentially time-saving) tool for the mods.

As far as a timeframe goes, something Achronos hinted at is a great relief:
Posted by: Achronos
Right now we're still stabilizing everything. We hope to have at least one "major" update to the site before the end of the year that isn't just bug fixes. We'll see how things go, though.

  • 10.26.2007 9:27 AM PDT
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And the Shadow fell upon the Land, and the World was riven stone from stone. The oceans fled, and the mountains were swallowed up, and the nations were scattered to the eight corners of the World. The moon was blood, and the sun was as ashes. The seas boiled, and the living envied the dead. All was shattered, and all but memory lost, and one memory above all others, of him who brought the Shadow and the Breaking of the World. And him they named Dragon.

Posted by: icefirei
Meh, initially, a mod would see that. But, with a combination of proper notice of the consequences of abuse and a little time to show that the mods really mean business when it comes to abuse, the "mark post" button would become a very useful (and potentially time-saving) tool for the mods.


Yes, time saving in theory. And, actually, if it is implented perfectly into the forums, it will probably be time-saving.
I still have my doubts about it though :P

  • 10.26.2007 11:09 AM PDT
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Like my BFG?

Personaly I do not think what people post in the forums should be held against thier Halo 3 play experience. They are two seperate worlds, ban someone from the forum for being abusive here, ban them from the game for cheating, or being abusive in game. They may be related but ultimately I do not belive the forum mods have even the slightest right to limit anyones Halo 3 game time.

  • 10.26.2007 1:24 PM PDT
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Posted by: CNC360
Personaly I do not think what people post in the forums should be held against thier Halo 3 play experience. They are two seperate worlds, ban someone from the forum for being abusive here, ban them from the game for cheating, or being abusive in game. They may be related but ultimately I do not belive the forum mods have even the slightest right to limit anyones Halo 3 game time.


At least try to skim threads when you're in The Septagon (er, Community Forum). You'll find that Achronos has rendered this a moot point by saying it's not going to happen.

To summarize, all we've really agreed on is limiting the Optimatch to XBL subscribers.

  • 10.26.2007 1:39 PM PDT
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Like my BFG?

Posted by: NinjAg
Posted by: CNC360
Personaly I do not think what people post in the forums should be held against thier Halo 3 play experience. They are two seperate worlds, ban someone from the forum for being abusive here, ban them from the game for cheating, or being abusive in game. They may be related but ultimately I do not belive the forum mods have even the slightest right to limit anyones Halo 3 game time.


At least try to skim threads when you're in The Septagon (er, Community Forum). You'll find that Achronos has rendered this a moot point by saying it's not going to happen.

To summarize, all we've really agreed on is limiting the Optimatch to XBL subscribers.


Why not kill the thread then?

  • 10.26.2007 1:49 PM PDT
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If you invite me to your group you will be blocked.

Although I know I'll probably end up on the wrong end of the deal, it's a great Idea.

I can tell you from experience that when I'm blacklisted it's no big deal. I just hang out in a group for a week, then get back on and continue what I'm doing.

Of course, if I ended up banned from Bungie AND Xbox Live I know I would be bored as hell.

Homework and swim practice all night every night for a week? I'd need a break. Id probably get banned twice with this policy and then I'd try not to ever do anything wrong again.

However, if this policy is adopted I also recommend using the warning feature for more offenses instead of just handing out these nasty bans.
That way creativity wouldn't be stifled.

  • 10.26.2007 2:27 PM PDT
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I disagree completely. Hell if I'm going to have some power hungry moderator (not about anyone specifically) take away something that I pay for legitimately out of my own wallet. I'd never post in the public forums if this went into effect.

  • 10.26.2007 2:29 PM PDT
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Pretty much everything has been discussed to the maximum extent here, so I'd just like to say:

Although I've gotten banned from the forums a few times for being a jerk, spammer, flambuoyant ghey orgy starter, and just a nuisance (though, not all at once), I'm always a good sport on XBL. And I don't think being banned from the forums should equal me being banned from Match of the Making.

Yeah, I know you said that was one of your pitfalls, but I'm just putting this out there =]

  • 10.26.2007 3:15 PM PDT
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Posted by: jessHAZ
...something that I pay for...


Since when did you pay for matchmaking?

You pay for an xbox live subscription, as bound by the terms of use and initial license agreement. Both of these are subject to change at any time.

Roughly translated to b.net-friendly terms, this means one thing:

You have no rights. Play nice.

  • 10.26.2007 3:26 PM PDT
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Posted by: jessHAZ
I disagree completely. Hell if I'm going to have some power hungry moderator (not about anyone specifically) take away something that I pay for legitimately out of my own wallet. I'd never post in the public forums if this went into effect.

*slap*

You. Don't. Pay. For. Match. Making.

You never posting again would raise the level of debate on this site.

  • 10.26.2007 3:28 PM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: AblativeMeatshld
You never posting again would raise the level of debate on this site.


Call me an ass if you will, but you doing the very thing that we're trying to solve has some level of irony, no?

  • 10.26.2007 3:34 PM PDT
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Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: AblativeMeatshld
You never posting again would raise the level of debate on this site.


Call me an ass if you will, but you doing the very thing that we're trying to solve has some level of irony, no?

Ok...

You're an ass.

...

The hell purpose did that serve? :)

  • 10.26.2007 3:35 PM PDT